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  • _manne__manne_ Posts: 284
    edited August 2015
    Tobor said:

    Very nice work.

    In Western culture, we  hold a book with the left hand and turn the pages with the right. So, character facing the right (well, when possible and practical). There's also age-old rules -- which are meant to be broken -- about our eye gaze going from left-to-right, and top-to-bottom. Again, though, this is culturally biased.  The nuance of your compositon suggests the character is looking to his (possibly uncertain) future.

    In Japan and some other cultures, it's opposite. Books open from the "back."

    I've never been a fan of 3D-ish Photoshop styles for book text, unless it's the main title. and used very lightly. At thumbnail size, the author's name is not readible. Which is okay, unless I'm the author! If this is a self-published or small press book, authors trade on their name by cultivating a ollowing. Random House may make the text size smaller of a non-blockbuster author, but small press/idie needs to ride on author relationships with their readers. So I'd make good ol' Leon's name a little bigger.

    Yeah I understand what you're saying.  I didn't feel the name was very legible in thumbnail size either.

    Tobor said:

    What's the little diagonal piece in the upper left? It's a little distracting since it doesn't look like anything tangible. I thought maybe you'd put a press logo there, but it doesn't seem quite big enough for that.

    Diagonal piece was from the larger version of this pic (you can see it on my DA page.  I can pretty easily remove it as it helped with the composition in the wider view but is just distracting here. 

    Post edited by _manne_ on
  • _manne__manne_ Posts: 284
    cherpenbeck said:

    Direction is okay. The little corner looks somehow out-of place, yes, and I would change something with the yellow glow behind the title. Either change the color, or add the same color somewhere else, as I tried to show in my (very crude) make-over.

    Let me see what I can do about 1. Adjusting the colour to the existing skyline (although in the thumbnail size I actually like the more saturated colour) or 2. adding more of the colour to the top.  Hmmmm...

  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300

    I think the point cherpenbeck was making is that the color of the outer glow for the text doesn't seem coordinated with rest of the cover. At least that's how I read it. You might have picked up the color from the background, but it's not a principle color of the palette. Maybe pick up a lighter hue from the background, perhaps nearer the bottom, where the colors might look like they're merging. While you're doing that, consider changing the color of the title to match another (darker) color already in your art. It's okay to limit the color palette. Instead of the purple, I might experiment with the reddish hues in the dragon's skin, for example. That might look interesting (or it might not!)

  • cherpenbeckcherpenbeck Posts: 1,409

    Exactly. The organge-yellow glow behind the text sticks out like a sore thumb, at least to me.

  • _manne__manne_ Posts: 284
    edited August 2015

    Okay guys how about this?  Better, worse, or about the same?  I definitely think the author name is more visible now. Though not real sure about the book title.  That's part of the reason I had the orange so spread out behind the title.

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    Post edited by _manne_ on
  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300

    The size of the author's name is better but, the book title isn't readible now. I think you were on the right track with the background bloom around the title, but the color just wasn't right. I think to make it work, try for the same yellow color for the bloom and the author name. Starting to get too many colors in the palette, IMO. (I like the yellow in the author name. Could you use that hue for the bloom, and try going back to the size you had before?

  • _manne__manne_ Posts: 284
    Tobor said:

    The size of the author's name is better but, the book title isn't readible now. I think you were on the right track with the background bloom around the title, but the color just wasn't right. I think to make it work, try for the same yellow color for the bloom and the author name. Starting to get too many colors in the palette, IMO. (I like the yellow in the author name. Could you use that hue for the bloom, and try going back to the size you had before?

    The yellow in the author name is the same as what I am using around the book title so I'll try just increasing the spread a bit.

  • _manne__manne_ Posts: 284
    edited September 2015

    Hi guys!  Heaven's I've been falling down on posting back.  Here's a new cover I've been working on.  What do you think( I know I keep trying to do something fancy with the font.  Perhaps I should just leave it more plain)? 

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    Post edited by _manne_ on
  • _manne__manne_ Posts: 284
    edited September 2015

    Oh also sci-fi one with the bloom increased.

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    Post edited by _manne_ on
  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 7,362

    Hey Manne,  I like the "More Steam" cover and the grainy fx you used gives it a good aging technique which works with the genre. 

  • _manne__manne_ Posts: 284
    FirstBastion said:

    Hey Manne,  I like the "More Steam" cover and the grainy fx you used gives it a good aging technique which works with the genre. 

     

    Thanks FirstBastion.  Is the Author name visible enough?

     

  • Xavier LeggettXavier Leggett Posts: 57
    _manne_ said:

    Hi guys!  Heaven's I've been falling down on posting back.  Here's a new cover I've been working on.  What do you think( I know I keep trying to do something fancy with the font.  Perhaps I should just leave it more plain)? 

    Looks pretty damned good to me.  I like it!

  • _manne__manne_ Posts: 284
    Xavier Leggett said:
    _manne_ said:

    Hi guys!  Heaven's I've been falling down on posting back.  Here's a new cover I've been working on.  What do you think( I know I keep trying to do something fancy with the font.  Perhaps I should just leave it more plain)? 

     

    Looks pretty damned good to me.  I like it!

    Thanks Xavier, how's the thumbnail seem to you?

  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300

    IMO, the STEAM in the title is being lost in the thumbnail. Whether that's critical or not depends on what you want the focus to be. 

  • _manne__manne_ Posts: 284
    edited September 2015
    Tobor said:

    IMO, the STEAM in the title is being lost in the thumbnail. Whether that's critical or not depends on what you want the focus to be. 

    I think you're right.  Let me see what I can do to make it stand out more.

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    Post edited by _manne_ on
  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300

    The wheat is a tough color to work with in any case. The bottom background, text outline, and text are all pretty close. There are stroke outlines and drop shadows for the text, but IMO tonally there's not a lot of separation of the elements.

    There are two other primary colors in the main palette, the dark red and the muted blue. Maybe one of these could be used as an accent for the title text.

  • _manne__manne_ Posts: 284

    Ok I uploaded more renditions.  Check the thumbnails in the post above.

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 7,362

    Of the three,  the middle darker red one definitely makes a stronger impression. . 

  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,472

    This is a rare event for me, but I don't care for any of them. While I prefer the darker red text, it just isn't working for me. Have you tried white text (or the light yellow of the author's font)? It might be a bit stark, but I think it will give you the contrast you need. Additionally, here are my thoughts:

    1. Make her bigger so you can diminish the tan colored ground/steam area and we can more clearly see her face.
    2. You can probably make this a little narrower -- her face looks a little wide. Plus, it will let you make her bigger without cutting off all of the cool stuff to her right.

    Anyway, that's my two-cents on the subject. I like this, but want it to be stronger with more emphasis on her face.

  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,472

    Xavier Leggett: I just watched the trailer for The Blood of the Empire, and was impressed with its technical quality. However, I actually couldn't tell that it was a trailer for a book. Even though it opens with the text "From Writer...), I thought this might be for a video game based on an SF book, or something like that. 

    My suggestions:

    1. Change the music. This is too closely associated with 2001: A Space Odyssey.
    2. Slow down some of the cuts -- I couldn't tell what they were doing and they didn't always move the story along.
    3. Don't be afraid to add some title cards to describe what the book is about.
    4. Perhaps use a sentence or two from the book itself? Something dramatic that will catch our attention. 
    5. You also might want to mention that this is the first book of a series.

    Best of luck with it! I'm very impressed with what you've achieved. Another pass and this could really knock our socks off.

  • cherpenbeckcherpenbeck Posts: 1,409

    @_manne_  I prefer the left cover with the blue text in big format, but it doesn't work as a thumbnail. Needs another background or another text color, a very light bluish gray perhaps.

  • cherpenbeckcherpenbeck Posts: 1,409
    edited September 2015

    I bought content for DAZ (and started with DAZ), because I wished to make book covers myself. Here is the first DAZ Cover (Background ist stock from deviant art , Nathalies Stock.)

    It's a high fantasy novel, "Harfenzorn" (literally translated "Wrath of the Harp")

    The man is a dial-spun Genesis2 Elf  with a bleached skin (I did that myself), the cat is a sabretooth tiger (DAZ Big Cats) with hair and mane made with Garibaldi hair plugin, therefore rendered with 3Delight, als Iray doesn't work with Garibaldi hair, and the twig with snow belongs to Winterland Bundle.

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    Post edited by cherpenbeck on
  • _manne__manne_ Posts: 284
    cherpenbeck said:

    I bought content for DAZ (and started with DAZ), because I wished to make book covers myself. Here is the first DAZ Cover (Background ist stock from deviant art , Nathalies Stock.)

    It's a high fantasy novel, "Harfenzorn" (literally translated "Wrath of the Harp")

    The man is a dial-spun Genesis2 Elf  with a bleached skin (I did that myself), the cat is a sabretooth tiger (DAZ Big Cats) with hair and mane made with Garibaldi hair plugin, therefore rendered with 3Delight, als Iray doesn't work with Garibaldi hair, and the twig with snow belongs to Winterland Bundle.

    Nicely done!

  • _manne__manne_ Posts: 284
    edited September 2015
    mmitchell_houston said:

    This is a rare event for me, but I don't care for any of them. While I prefer the darker red text, it just isn't working for me. Have you tried white text (or the light yellow of the author's font)? It might be a bit stark, but I think it will give you the contrast you need. Additionally, here are my thoughts:

    1. Make her bigger so you can diminish the tan colored ground/steam area and we can more clearly see her face.
    2. You can probably make this a little narrower -- her face looks a little wide. Plus, it will let you make her bigger without cutting off all of the cool stuff to her right.

    Anyway, that's my two-cents on the subject. I like this, but want it to be stronger with more emphasis on her face.

    Hmmmmmm...you know pulling in on her face isn't a bad idea except for the fact that because of the low light, there are a lot of fireflys present which makes the picture look pixelated.  I think I'll stop messing with it for now and just let it sit a couple days, and see what comes to me.  Thanks for your suggestions mmitchell, I'm a big believer in more input can only help!

     

    Post edited by _manne_ on
  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,472

    _manne_: Glad to help. And I agree -- sometimes pulling away and coming back is the best thing you can do to a project. It lets you see things with new eyes.

    If you cannot pull in for technical reasons (fireflies are the bane of my existence these days), consider messing around with the bottom to eliminate that sharp line (the floor?). Although that line is needed in the larger, wide illustration (I looked at that one and really liked it), in the cropped cover version it isn't your friend. It bisects the text and is providing unnecessary clutter around the title, which is the main problem you're having. Anything that simplifies things down there is bound to be helpful.

  • Xavier LeggettXavier Leggett Posts: 57
    mmitchell_houston said:

    Xavier Leggett: I just watched the trailer for The Blood of the Empire, and was impressed with its technical quality. However, I actually couldn't tell that it was a trailer for a book. Even though it opens with the text "From Writer...), I thought this might be for a video game based on an SF book, or something like that. 

    My suggestions:

    1. Change the music. This is too closely associated with 2001: A Space Odyssey.
    2. Slow down some of the cuts -- I couldn't tell what they were doing and they didn't always move the story along.
    3. Don't be afraid to add some title cards to describe what the book is about.
    4. Perhaps use a sentence or two from the book itself? Something dramatic that will catch our attention. 
    5. You also might want to mention that this is the first book of a series.

    Best of luck with it! I'm very impressed with what you've achieved. Another pass and this could really knock our socks off.

    Hey, thanks for the comments/suggestions.

    1.  The music, I picked this music because it had always been a favorit of mine, and I wanted to let my audience know that I was serious about my novel.  But at the back of my mind, I felt that the music selection could backfire . . . because of its association with 2001.

    2.  The rapid fire editing . . . some people love it, some hate it.  My feelings on this . . . I'm somewhere in the middle.  I wanted to convey a strong sense of action. . . And since my characters are saying anything--I decided on action, action, action . . . hoping, in effect that potential readers won't think the book is boring.

    3.  In my next video, I'm going to have a narrator give viewers what the novel is about, who the characters are, etc., etc. . . Also, by adding a narrator, I can eliminate some of the rapid fire editing style and give viewers a chance to really take a look at the finer points of the trailer.

    4.  I will definitely use a sentence from the back cover blurb of the novel in the next trailer.

    5.  And hopefully, if I the editorial talent, I will mention that it's a series.

    Thanks for ALL of your comments and suggestions.  I will do my best to implement them to the best of my ability and talent.  Writing is hard work.  Marketing and everything that goes into it is . . . staggering.  Cover design looks so easy.  Making trailers looks so easy . . . but they aren't.  Whew!

     

    Xavier

  • KnittingmommyKnittingmommy Posts: 8,191

    Hi, everyone.  I stumbled across this thread while doing a search for something else in google.  I've been reading along for the last few days and just reached the last post.  I wanted to let all of you know that I have learned a LOT about cover creation.  I have been creating my own stories for as long as I can remember, but I have never done anything with them.  Frankly, most of the stories in my younger days were a little lame with no plot to speak of and very little substance.  I went on to become a mother to three terrifying boys who I love dearly when I don't want to lock them in a room together and let them kill each other.  They range in age from 11 to 15 years and they don't need Mom as much as they used to so I'm writing again. 

    Now that I'm older, I'm amazed at the difference in my writing.  It comes much more easily and I'm better at world building and characterization.  My plotting has also improved.  My writer's notebook is full of story ideas (something I never really gave up) and I have two books in the works that I would love to see in print when I finish.  I read and write science fiction romance and paranormal romance.  I also read a few other romantic genres, as well as, science fiction, mysteries, and the occasional psychological thriller.  I got here, to Daz, because I started researching creating my own book covers.  As a reader, I am not currently happy with the trend in book covers on Amazon.  While I am just as happy as the next girl to enjoy a naked, bulging chest, eventually they all start to blend together.  I may not always remember the exact title of a book I've read, but I do remember when a cover really stands out.  I think cover artists are relying too much on stock photos and photoshop and the covers on Amazon look so similar that a really remarkable cover tends stands out regardless of the talent of the writer.  I know that when I'm ready to try publishing my work, I want a cover that really stands out and my hope is that readers will also enjoy the words on the page. Hence, I found Daz.

    I can really see a lot of potential to use Daz for a large number of advertising paraphernalia for writers from wallpapers of a reader's favorite character to book trailers.  So, I study and learn.  Hopefully, my skills are improving.  I've a had a few good renders.  Lighting will probably be the bane of my existence when it comes to 3D art.

    I still consider myself a beginner even though I've been using Daz for a year now.  I will probably do more lurking than contributing to the conversation, but I hope to learn more about creating book covers.  I've learned a lot already and you have all given me tons to think about when it comes time to actually create my own cover.  Right now, I'm just trying to get the art down.  I do love trying to portray scenes from my story ideas into something I can actually see on my computer instead of just in my head.  I've even started playing around with hexagon trying to create morphs, modify props, and make clothing and hair for my characters.

    Kathryn - I downloaded a sample of your Legacy collection to my kindle.  It is now on my list of books to read.  I did skim the prologue of the first book and it looks right up my alley when I'm in the mood for a good historical romance.

    I will attempt to upload a couple of my best renders so you can see where my skillset is.  I haven't gotten to the point where I'm making anything that looks even close to a book cover, but I'm getting there.  At some point, I will have to create renders that have space for text without obliterating characters while also keeping within size guidelines, but I'm not quite ready for that yet.  I hope when I do get there, I can create something you all think would make a good cover.  I look forward to your imput and I hope that I find the oportunity to contribute in the future.

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  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,472

    Knittingmommy: My mom said the exact same thing about her four boys -- that when we were in our teens all we did was fight with each other. Now, of course, decades later, we all get along pretty well. I've been doing digital art for more than 15 years, and lighting and composition are still the most difficult things to master because subtle differences in light and pose can make dramatic changes to the final image.

    My suggestion for improving would be to enter one of the monthly New User contests (elsewhere in the Daz forums) and let people critique your work during the month so you can actively grow as an artist.

    As for writing -- I give one suggestion: Just do it. Start writing again. The more you do it, the easier it will flow.

  • _manne__manne_ Posts: 284
    Knittingmommy said:

    Hi, everyone.  I stumbled across this thread while doing a search for something else in google.  I've been reading along for the last few days and just reached the last post.  I wanted to let all of you know that I have learned a LOT about cover creation.  I have been creating my own stories for as long as I can remember, but I have never done anything with them.  Frankly, most of the stories in my younger days were a little lame with no plot to speak of and very little substance.  I went on to become a mother to three terrifying boys who I love dearly when I don't want to lock them in a room together and let them kill each other.  They range in age from 11 to 15 years and they don't need Mom as much as they used to so I'm writing again. 

    Now that I'm older, I'm amazed at the difference in my writing.  It comes much more easily and I'm better at world building and characterization.  My plotting has also improved.  My writer's notebook is full of story ideas (something I never really gave up) and I have two books in the works that I would love to see in print when I finish.  I read and write science fiction romance and paranormal romance.  I also read a few other romantic genres, as well as, science fiction, mysteries, and the occasional psychological thriller.  I got here, to Daz, because I started researching creating my own book covers.  As a reader, I am not currently happy with the trend in book covers on Amazon.  While I am just as happy as the next girl to enjoy a naked, bulging chest, eventually they all start to blend together.  I may not always remember the exact title of a book I've read, but I do remember when a cover really stands out.  I think cover artists are relying too much on stock photos and photoshop and the covers on Amazon look so similar that a really remarkable cover tends stands out regardless of the talent of the writer.  I know that when I'm ready to try publishing my work, I want a cover that really stands out and my hope is that readers will also enjoy the words on the page. Hence, I found Daz.

    I can really see a lot of potential to use Daz for a large number of advertising paraphernalia for writers from wallpapers of a reader's favorite character to book trailers.  So, I study and learn.  Hopefully, my skills are improving.  I've a had a few good renders.  Lighting will probably be the bane of my existence when it comes to 3D art.

    I still consider myself a beginner even though I've been using Daz for a year now.  I will probably do more lurking than contributing to the conversation, but I hope to learn more about creating book covers.  I've learned a lot already and you have all given me tons to think about when it comes time to actually create my own cover.  Right now, I'm just trying to get the art down.  I do love trying to portray scenes from my story ideas into something I can actually see on my computer instead of just in my head.  I've even started playing around with hexagon trying to create morphs, modify props, and make clothing and hair for my characters.

    Kathryn - I downloaded a sample of your Legacy collection to my kindle.  It is now on my list of books to read.  I did skim the prologue of the first book and it looks right up my alley when I'm in the mood for a good historical romance.

    I will attempt to upload a couple of my best renders so you can see where my skillset is.  I haven't gotten to the point where I'm making anything that looks even close to a book cover, but I'm getting there.  At some point, I will have to create renders that have space for text without obliterating characters while also keeping within size guidelines, but I'm not quite ready for that yet.  I hope when I do get there, I can create something you all think would make a good cover.  I look forward to your imput and I hope that I find the oportunity to contribute in the future.

    Hi Knittingmommy, great to have you on the thread.  Hopefully we'll see Kathryn soon (once she claws her way back from the black hole of internet non-access).   I like the poses in the images you posted as I think you've achieved pretty realistic results.  Nice job!  I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

     

     

  • KnittingmommyKnittingmommy Posts: 8,191
    mmitchell_houston said:
     

    My suggestion for improving would be to enter one of the monthly New User contests (elsewhere in the Daz forums) and let people critique your work during the month so you can actively grow as an artist.

    As for writing -- I give one suggestion: Just do it. Start writing again. The more you do it, the easier it will flow.

    Yes, I try to make sure I write everyday. I'm getting better at making sure I have time for my writing even when the rest of my life is in chaos thanks to my boys.  As for the contests, I am seriously considering entering next month contest now that I don't feel like a total newb and I can actually make a render that doesn't just scream "amature".

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