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Tips & Tricks for Iray for newbies......

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  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,687
    edited December 1969

    Thank you Zarcon and Gedd for that information. The more I experiment though, the more I find I can get away with all of the same fakery and eyeballing of lighting that I can with 3Delight, as I'm not trying to make photorealistic renders or fool anyone. Drop in an HDR, maybe a off-screen panel for a key light effect and get the thing to Photoshop for the serious work. :) Whether I can postwork it well enough to my liking is something I don't know quite yet, but it's fun.

  • Three WishesThree Wishes Posts: 471
    edited March 2015

    This is a wonderful thread. It has answered so many questions. Also, SickleYield's demonstration video should be required viewing in all public schools. (I'm exaggerating, but not by much...)

    I'm stumped on hair. Specifically, the scalp. No matter what I try fiddling with, such as the cutout opacity, etc. I seem to get a solid blob of color instead of an actual transparency value. If anyone has a quick pointer, I'd be grateful.


    Wow. I just realized I'm being outsmarted by some blond hair...'

    Edit: D'oh! I finally found the "Iray and Hair" thread. I'll try some of those ideas out.

    Post edited by Three Wishes on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,056
    edited March 2015

    Tip about skin, after some experimenting:

    I had really nice results if I make a G2 figure with optimized skin applied, and jotted down values.

    Then with my 'real' figure, I convert the surfaces to Iray Base, and tweak.

    Among other things, a lot of surfaces got turned to 'thin walled' when that needs to be off to get SSS effects.

    I find this is a lot more useful than just using the one optimized thing, because you can keep a lot of the varied maps. You don't get translucent maps, but eh

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    shame the HDRI backgrounds don't react to DOF as it should, notice the ground under the bike and in front.

    bikennew1.png
    2000 x 1125 - 2M
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    Well if the HDRI background is all sharp and a blur was put on for background elements in a photo editor...

  • jakibluejakiblue Posts: 7,281
    edited December 1969

    Do you have to wait till the render is completely finished? Even tho after a certain stage it doesn't get any better?
    I was sure there was a way - like in Reality, I think - where you can save the image without it actually completing.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited March 2015

    well, if it is in that preview-window thing, instead of straight to file.

    straight to file, I don't know.

    Render in window thing. you can just hit cancel on the progress window (Not the preview window). then it should stop, and let you do as you wish with the preview window. Just like progressive render with 3delight.

    Big window with pic on left (Preview window), Small window with progress bar on the right, hit cancel there.

    Pending_SlowComp_202.png
    1848 x 1144 - 1M
    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • IppotamusIppotamus Posts: 1,580
    edited March 2015

    What is a good base/starting intensity for using an outdoor HDR in the environment mat on an outdoor scene?
    The default setting of 1.00 seems way too bright. :/

    Post edited by Ippotamus on
  • PschelfhPschelfh Posts: 261
    edited March 2015

    Ippotamus said:
    What is a good base/starting intensity for using an outdoor HDR in the environment mat on an outdoor scene?
    The default setting of 1.00 seems way too bright. :/

    If you want to know more about Iray lighting, please consult this great introduction by Sickyield : http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorial-Getting-Started-With-Iray-519725115
    She proposes 0.005 for intensity.

    I think you'll have to experiment a bit, it will also depend on the HDRI you're using. I tried some of mine, but never had to lower the intensity.

    Peter.

    Post edited by Pschelfh on
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited March 2015

    hphoenix said:
    There's lots of information at the various light manufacturers websites. But there is considerable variation in values and measurement methods.


    On a side note, I wonder how many people are now tempted to get one of these:
    nVidia Visual Computing Appliance (VCA)

    No idea of the cost, but I'm betting close to or over six digits in the price.....but it'd make Iray scream with pleasure.....
    :cheese:

    About $50,000 each.

    And more than one is even better than one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omNnWkZxxuY and https://youtu.be/dCwywaGoUU4

    Post edited by DAZ_Spooky on
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    Cypherfox said:
    Greetings,
    SickleYield said:
    It's going to render through the camera you're looking through when you hit render.
    I always wondered about this; if I'm using a side-by-side video, or a 4-viewport view, how do I know which one is going to render if I hit Cmd-R, or click the render button?

    -- Morgan
    The viewport you currently have active should be highlighted around the edge. (New in DAZ Studio Iradium.)

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    Spit said:
    I know this is OT for this thread, but speaking of the mouse over the viewport how do I get rid of the flashing with the pointer tool. We had the option before but I can't find it in 4.8. Not in tools or prefs..where is it?
    you have to select the Surface Selection tool which brings up the options in Tool Settings pane.No longer in the tool settings pane. It makes more sense in the draw settings pane, now that we have enough to have a draw settings pane. :)
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    SnowSultan said:
    Does anyone have any tips for minimizing fireflies? I just did a bunch of tests and here's what I learned:


    - Rendered a fairly dark interior room, 5 EV with three light bulb-like emitters, 700 L, 2900K -

    Render 1: Stopped manually at 87% after 7.5 minutes, 1100 intinerations. Noticeable fireflies.

    Render 2: Finished at 100% after 28.5 minutes, 4423 itinerations. VERY slight decrease in fireflies.

    Render 3: Finished at 100% after 15 minutes, 2320 itinerations. Nominal Luminance (under Firefly Filter Enable) set to 5, Noise Filter set to On with default settings. Slightly less bright fireflies, but the exact same amount as Render 2.


    I was going to try raising Quality, but do you have any recommendations? Do you think raising it to 2 would have any noticeable effect? Any advice is appreciated.

    More lights, seriously, in general adding more lights does not increase render time.
    Increasing the render quality setting, may help, but will increase render time.
    There is also a firefly filter, which significantly increases render times.
    You can also render at twice size, and reducing it using resampling, like in Photoshop, IRFanview, etc. can also reduce or remove them, some increase in render time but not much.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Szark said:
    Spit said:
    I know this is OT for this thread, but speaking of the mouse over the viewport how do I get rid of the flashing with the pointer tool. We had the option before but I can't find it in 4.8. Not in tools or prefs..where is it?
    you have to select the Surface Selection tool which brings up the options in Tool Settings pane.
    No longer in the tool settings pane. It makes more sense in the draw settings pane, now that we have enough to have a draw settings pane. :) Which is better IMHO. I am really liking what you guys have done with DS.
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,056
    edited March 2015

    Tip: don't get too nutso using SubD.

    I upgraded my hardware, worked on a render with two figures, set a lot of stuff to SubD 3... yeeeeah. Machine choked.

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • Robert FreiseRobert Freise Posts: 4,516
    edited December 1969

    Asked in another thread but will ask here as well

    Question on environment maps
    Is there a specific or best size ?
    Is there a way to scale them , in Poser I can do this in the materials room
    I ask because some that I have loaded are great for Land of the Giants type pics where others I get great big square and or rectangular blotches

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,644
    edited December 1969

    Robert Freise said:
    Asked in another thread but will ask here as well

    Question on environment maps
    Is there a specific or best size ?
    Is there a way to scale them , in Poser I can do this in the materials room
    I ask because some that I have loaded are great for Land of the Giants type pics where others I get great big square and or rectangular blotches

    Turn on Finite Sphere W/Ground and you will get scaling controls for the dome.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,457
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    hphoenix said:
    There's lots of information at the various light manufacturers websites. But there is considerable variation in values and measurement methods.


    On a side note, I wonder how many people are now tempted to get one of these:
    nVidia Visual Computing Appliance (VCA)

    No idea of the cost, but I'm betting close to or over six digits in the price.....but it'd make Iray scream with pleasure.....
    :cheese:

    About $50,000 each.

    And more than one is even better than one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omNnWkZxxuY and https://youtu.be/dCwywaGoUU4
    ...so if you just won the big Powerball or MegaMillions and happen to have 800,000$ (the price for 16 VCAs) burning a hole in your pocket, you too can get almost instantaneous realtime rendering.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,457
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Szark said:
    Spit said:
    I know this is OT for this thread, but speaking of the mouse over the viewport how do I get rid of the flashing with the pointer tool. We had the option before but I can't find it in 4.8. Not in tools or prefs..where is it?
    you have to select the Surface Selection tool which brings up the options in Tool Settings pane.
    No longer in the tool settings pane. It makes more sense in the draw settings pane, now that we have enough to have a draw settings pane. :) Which is better IMHO. I am really liking what you guys have done with DS.
    ...yeah,the default layout was kind of strange at first but as I got used to it I've come to like it a lot. Especially nice when having to switch a lot between Camera, Materials, and Preferences tabs.
  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401
    edited December 1969

    Greetings,

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    There is also a firefly filter, which significantly increases render times.
    Wait, so if I turn off the firefly filter, it'll go significantly FASTER?

    Hmmm... I'll have to try this.

    By the way, I'm rendering a random old PT Cruiser model in a garage for my wife, and it's frickin' fantastic. This renderer must be absolutely DESIGNED for cars, it loves rendering them SO much.

    On that note, the starting presets are amazing for hard and metal things, but it doesn't quite seem as clean for wood, grass, cotton, etc... Organics, in general, don't seem to render as nicely, even the included leather shader. I'm still working on it, but a few shader presets for organics would be a big win at launch...

    -- Morgan

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,056
    edited December 1969

    I'm finding it very easy to end up way overexposed if you aren't careful.

    Also I really hope I finish this one pic soon -- it's been four days of tweaks, discovering stuff clipping, etc. ugh.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,056
    edited March 2015

    I strongly suspect you are better off shutting off the firefly filter, staying at render quality 1, and rendering at 2 or 4x normal size, then reducing it in post.

    Testing that theory now.

    Edit: Preliminary, going from Render quality 3/Firefly on to Render quality 1/Firefly off, 10x as fast. Sooo... yeah. Fingers crossed.

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited March 2015

    Cypherfox said:
    Greetings,
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    There is also a firefly filter, which significantly increases render times.
    Wait, so if I turn off the firefly filter, it'll go significantly FASTER?

    Hmmm... I'll have to try this. (SNIP)

    -- Morgan
    For doing small test renders say 400 x 520 pixels, in CPU only mode.
    it just dose not make much of a measurable impact.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/53771/
    OptiX Accel (Off) instance Optimization (Speed), Max Samples 1000. Nothing else touched except the Firefly filter.

    FireFlyFilter (ON)
    Total Rendering Time: 9 minutes 16.50 seconds
    FireFlyFilter (OFF)
    Total Rendering Time: 9 minutes 15.76 seconds
    FireFlyFilter (ON)
    Total Rendering Time: 9 minutes 16.44 seconds
    FireFlyFilter (OFF)
    Total Rendering Time: 9 minutes 15.80 seconds
    Total Rendering Time: 9 minutes 16.0 seconds

    Also, with the filter off, it looks like some surfaces are altered in appearance. The SSS shaders are brighter.

    Render_19.jpg
    400 x 520 - 86K
    Render_18.jpg
    400 x 520 - 86K
    Render_17.jpg
    400 x 520 - 79K
    Render_16.jpg
    400 x 520 - 86K
    Render_15.jpg
    400 x 520 - 79K
    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,056
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, I checked... firefly doesn't seem to matter, and it looks worse without the filter. Nm! :)

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401
    edited December 1969

    Greetings,
    I want to figure out how to do this cool random-ish maze texture in DAZ Studio. ;)

    That's a really fun link, at least for folks comfortable with coding, with a cool MDL material developed bit by bit.

    -- Morgan

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited March 2015

    SnowSultan said:
    From what I can find online (and it's very confusing) a typical candle either gives off a luminance value of 1 or 12.6. As I make fantasy images...does anyone have any suggestions as to how to keep things from being absolutely pitch black once the sun goes down? Realism is all well and good, but I could put fifty candles at 12.6 in a tavern and the patrons wouldn't be able to see the food in front of their faces.

    I also set the Exposure value to 6, which is apparently within the range of indoor lighting. Not sure what else to try now.

    edit: setting Exposure to 0 and the lights to 12.6 gives a little more of what I'd expect from candle light - still very dark, but it's not totally black.

    Our eyes adjust to dimmer light. To get the render engine to do that, kick up the ISO to a much higher degree. It will simulate what our eyes would do in low light situations.

    Btw, just noticed Spit had mentioned the iris part earlier. The trick is to up the ISO setting to simulate the effect of the iris. ;)

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    EmmaAndJordi said:

    - ISO is the reactiveness of the film. The higher, more light enters in the photography. It usually also produces noise. But not always, for example, in absence of light, a higher ISO can really decrease the noise if you get the exact proportion of ISO

    - Aperture: it's like the pupil of the eye. The more higher f number, it is more closed. Think in a pupil that is very small, it leaves less light enter into the eye, but it focuses better. The lower f number, the aperture is higher, the pupil is bigger. The background may look blurry, the subject focused, but the light on the scene is higher too.

    To get more light: increase ISO, decrease the f number (= more aperture).

    Jordi

    The comparison of the aperture to pupil of the eye is common but misleading in my opinion. In actual use, Aperture is used specifically to control depth of field. Adjusting ISO is actually used to mimic eyes adjusting to various light levels.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    hphoenix said:
    There's lots of information at the various light manufacturers websites. But there is considerable variation in values and measurement methods.

    That is what IES is attempting to address.

  • MadbatMadbat Posts: 382
    edited March 2015

    This is EArkham's Zworld basement demo scene. Lit by 5 prop fluorescent lights set to emitter @ 100000 lm temp 5813.15 (I just fudged that)
    ISO 400, f/stop 4, shutter speed 60 (I fudged all that too) Architectural sampler on.

    Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER): 1.0 IRAY rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 780 Ti): 5000 iterations, 17.325s init, 2902.106s render
    Total Rendering Time: 48 minutes 42.30 seconds

    No I don't know what I'm doing. :red:

    Edit: I had a look at the full scene and it doesn't load with the walls behind camera. Since this is an interior scene with no other lights, how does that effect render time (if at all). I'm just wondering how all those bounces going off into space effects things (other than wasted light and likely a darker scene)

    100000_lm_iso_400_f4_sp_60.png
    1000 x 1300 - 2M
    Post edited by Chohole on
  • KatherineKatherine Posts: 330
    edited December 1969

    Madbat said:
    This is EArkham's Zworld basement demo scene. Lit by 5 prop fluorescent lights set to emitter @ 100000 lm temp 5813.15 (I just fudged that)
    ISO 400, f/stop 4, shutter speed 60 (I fudged all that too) Architectural sampler on.

    Iray INFO - module:category(IRAY:RENDER): 1.0 IRAY rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 780 Ti): 5000 iterations, 17.325s init, 2902.106s render
    Total Rendering Time: 48 minutes 42.30 seconds

    No I don't know what I'm doing. :red:

    Edit: I had a look at the full scene and it doesn't load with the walls behind camera. Since this is an interior scene with no other lights, how does that effect render time (if at all). I'm just wondering how all those bounces going off into space effects things (other than wasted light and likely a darker scene)

    For someone "fudging" things you did a fantastic job! This is looking really nice so far. :)

    Kat

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