Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.20.0.17! (*UPDATED*)

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  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,629
    edited February 2022

    ...one of the reasons I have a catalogue of saved installers all the way back to Daz 1.81. .For example for big scenes I'll use 4.11 to avoid the VRAM hit on my Titan X that newer versions of Iray impose to compensate for the lack of RT cores.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • outrider42 said:

    Every time a new release comes out, we get a load of users who find something isn't right, and they BEG to go back to their previous version.

    Every single time.

    I guess it was their fault for not reading every post in the forums, and not seeing the handful of posts that might mention backing up their old install. It is totally their fault for not understanding that Daz doesn't offer a way to go back. Ever. Yep, it is totally the customer's fault for these things... <.<

    I find this exercise getting tiresome and stupid. This is objectively anticonsumer behavior. When you remove choice from the customer, that is anticonsumer. I can go to Blender and install any version I want going back years. I can also install as many versions of Blender as I want, right in the same folder even. I have 4 versions of Blender on my machine right now. Nvidia also allows users to install any number of drivers on their GPUs. I can go and install drivers from 2016 if I want to. But you cannot do this with Daz Studio.

    And before some chump jumps in and says "well so-and-so doesn't let you revert back", does that argument make what Daz is doing right? No, it does not. Two wrongs do not make a right, and just because some other company engages in anticonsumer behavior does not mean that every company is obligated to do so.

    So while Daz can blame Nvidia for killing how ghost lights work, this entire matter gets resolved by letting your customers download previous versions of Daz! This is a choice that is 100% on Daz themselves, and Daz refuses to give their own customers this simple basic choice. It is disgusting practice by any standard, and this ghost light ordeal exposes it fully for everyone to see how awful it is. Nobody can defend this. I am sure somebody will try, but they have no real defense. Daz's anticonsumerism is biting them in the ass real hard right now.

    Do you think the users who just had all of their scenes that used ghost lights are going to happily buy from you soon? I rather think they will be quite hesitant to support Daz anytime soon. And all Daz needed to do is give them the option to download a previous version. Problem solved. Angry customers go home less angry. Is this really so hard to do? Is this really asking too much of Daz?

    Give your customers the ability to download previous versions of Daz Studio.

    A very good point and a very reasonable argument. 

    I have spent the last week or so trawling Google to try and find the previous version for my Mac, as my previous back ups failed and i was not able to re-install the previous version after installing 4.20 through DIM.

    I contacted Support who very promptly replied (within 24hrs)  that they do not support any previous versions of the software, to which replied and have heard nothing back since (6 days ago).

    My reasons for trawling Google, and I believe the reasoning for other users, is that we would rather try and fix the problem ourselves (before contacting Support) and then just "get on with it". 
    As indivuals, we all have our own problems, time restraints, working conditions etc. and i strongly feel that Support should do everything they can to support this and in doing so alleviate the pressure on themselves. 

    outrider42 had a very valid argument.  I just wanted to add my personal experience to this.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,938
    edited February 2022

    maybe if that is their attitude people should start returning faulty  products because I believe that overrides any 30 day limit in most countries. I know the ACCC in Australia would consider faulty goods worthy of a full refund, I believe Paypal has recourse fot that too because if they refuse to provide a working build for products they sold you after removing functionality they have in effect sold you faulty products.

    I did save a backup and have multiple builds but honestly how many people do that for every software they use, imagine if Adobe removed the ability to import jpg for example because they claimed it was a bug they shouldn't have had  how people would react.

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • ImagoImago Posts: 4,922

    I agree with Outrider42, users needs to rollback to a working version of the software to avoid interrupting their works. Not all DAZ Studio users are hobbists, there are also professionals who gets really damaged by those fixed and unfixed bugs.

    There's isn't even the need to use their servers' space, FileHippo or a similar service should be enough to distribute old releases.

    I have backups of DAZ Studio 4.12 but I'm in the constant fear of losing them for any reason and have to stop making my animations since 4.20 is too broken.

  • they could put them on Github FFS

  • WendyLuvsCatz said:

    they could put them on Github FFS

    That is not, as far as I am aware, for distributing closed-source projects without code.

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    they could put them on Github FFS

    That is not, as far as I am aware, for distributing closed-source projects without code.

    well I am sure they could find somewhere suitable to host them even if they chose a legacy fee  option to cover the costs!!!

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 9,587

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    well I am sure they could find somewhere suitable to host them even if they chose a legacy fee  option to cover the costs!!!

    The "forumites" could even send some of their excess HD's along with sunflower seeds and carrots (for The Hamster)

  • Seeing how I can't make the beta keep a layout after restart, shall I assume that this is still broken? :)

  • second_technician_rimmer_9571136c47 said:

    Seeing how I can't make the beta keep a layout after restart, shall I assume that this is still broken? :)

    Are you using the latest beta (4.20.0.3)? The layout issue has been fixed in the latest release.

  • MadHammerMadHammer Posts: 34
    edited February 2022

    @DoctorJellybean

    This may not be true for all beta users, I for one am on 4.20.0.3 and cannot save toolbars or even import toolbars.

    Also re: 4.20.0.3 functionality of the Hexagon Bridge has been removed. When I send back to DAZ from Hexagon I can only name a morph, overwright a morph and put it in a category, all other options are missing. It could be just me, but just because DAZ says it is fixed doesn't seem to mean that it is fixed for everyone.

    With all the complaints here, I am not going to go as far as 'DAZ Devs don't test', but will go so far as saying that it is apparent that their testing (at least their regression testing) needs a process overhaul.

    Post edited by MadHammer on
  • ImagoImago Posts: 4,922

    MadHammer said:

    @DoctorJellybean

    This may not be true for all beta users, I for one am on 4.20.0.3 and cannot save toolbars or even import toolbars.

    Also re: 4.20.0.3 functionality of the Hexagon Bridge has been removed. When I send back to DAZ from Hexagon I can only name a morph, overwright a morph and put it in a category, all other options are missing. It could be just me, but just because DAZ says it is fixed doesn't seem to mean that it is fixed for everyone.

    With all the complaints here, I am not going to go as far as 'DAZ Devs don't test', but will go so far as saying that it is apparent that their testing (at least their regression testing) needs a process overhaul.

    Check in the options (press F2 on your keyboard) in the last tab called Bridges if you have the Advanced mode activated.

  • MadHammer said:

    @DoctorJellybean

    This may not be true for all beta users, I for one am on 4.20.0.3 and cannot save toolbars or even import toolbars.

    Also re: 4.20.0.3 functionality of the Hexagon Bridge has been removed. When I send back to DAZ from Hexagon I can only name a morph, overwright a morph and put it in a category, all other options are missing. It could be just me, but just because DAZ says it is fixed doesn't seem to mean that it is fixed for everyone.

    With all the complaints here, I am not going to go as far as 'DAZ Devs don't test', but will go so far as saying that it is apparent that their testing (at least their regression testing) needs a process overhaul.

    Please try saving\importing a toolbar again and post the full log.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,241

    Is there a way to select a single toolbar and export/import just that one, or is the entire set of toolbars always exported/imported?

  • DoctorJellybean, yes, I,am on this version. I can't import previously saved layouts from my good saves, nor create one and get it back after restarting DS.

  • second_technician_rimmer_9571136c47 said:

    DoctorJellybean, yes, I,am on this version. I can't import previously saved layouts from my good saves, nor create one and get it back after restarting DS.

    Please try again and post a full log.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,241
    edited February 2022

    mistycomic said:

    <snip>

    I contacted Support who very promptly replied (within 24hrs)  that they do not support any previous versions of the software, to which replied and have heard nothing back since (6 days ago).
    <snip>

    If that is their attitude, I wonder why they have a Tech Ticket Tracker option of  "Earlier Version Request". It must be so they can filter those requests out quickly and refuse.

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    Post edited by barbult on
  • jbowlerjbowler Posts: 745
    edited February 2022

    Imago said:

    I agree with Outrider42, users needs to rollback to a working version of the software to avoid interrupting their works. Not all DAZ Studio users are hobbists, there are also professionals who gets really damaged by those fixed and unfixed bugs.

    This is what "General" releases are for and is why products which have significant external dependencies on things like hardware or the format of previously authored data tend to keep older "General" releases available.  Releases (="General") have support; they get bug-fixed, Release Candidates (="Public") don't get support and are always at least one version ahead of any full Release because they they are candidates for the next full Release.  There are periods, often quite long periods, where there are no Release Candidates available, but there is always a Release Candidate before any Release happens.

    Things like dropping parts of the UI should be detected in a Release Candidate but if not then there should be a bug-fix release of the Release; that should happen in an RC which only has that change.  It's quite possible for there to be two RC lines happening in parallel, one with minimal bug fixes for showstoppers in the current Release the other with RCs for the next Release.

    Things have changed over the last 20 years.  Now Linus releases a new version of the eponymous kernel every two weeks, 20 years ago when I was involved in commercial software development a product release only happened every 2 years, minimum.  So old fashioned product releases are now given the TLA "LTS" (Long Term Support) and that is pretty much essential.  No one in their right mind would use a "Release" for anything that had to work and keep on working.

    Time for DAZ Studio to actually produce a LTS product.  Not 4.20 or 4.16, perhaps something in the range 4.12-4.15, and something which does itself get proper support - like having its own, separate, release and release candidate channels.

     

    Post edited by jbowler on
  • jbowlerjbowler Posts: 745

    barbult said:

    Is there a way to select a single toolbar and export/import just that one, or is the entire set of toolbars always exported/imported?

    The settings are in one file or, maybe, several files which contain all the settings of a particular type, not for a particular purpose (e.g. particular toolbar).  I think the toolbars are in %AppData%/DAZ 3D/{Studio4,Studio4 Public Build}/toolbars.dsx  So everything gets saved/loaded at once.

    The AppData .dsx files can be copyied and backed up and if "Studio4 Public Build" doesn't exist they get copied from "Studio4" (i.e. the release).  When instances are created they get copied from the corresponding parent directory (Studio4 or Studio4 Public Build), although there were some changes to the behavior in 4.16.

    The files are just pseudo-XML (no schema), they can be viewed in notepad (etc) and even editted with apprpriate care.

  • edited February 2022

    DoctorJellyBean, here's a copy of the log. In that one I have tried toload and save a few things, then restart the program. When I got back in, my toolbar was gone again.

    txt
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    Post edited by second_technician_rimmer_9571136c47 on
  • DoctorJellybeanDoctorJellybean Posts: 7,990
    edited February 2022

    second_technician_rimmer_9571136c47 said:

    DoctorJellyBean, here's a copy of the log. In that one I have tried toload and save a few things, then restart the program. When I got back in, my toolbar was gone again.

    Thanks.

    I noticed the following messages in the log:

    [ERROR] :: Open File Failed - The file could not be opened: C:/Users/TAU/AppData/Roaming/DAZ 3D/Studio4 Public Build/actions.dsx
    [ERROR] :: Open File Failed - The file could not be opened: C:/Users/TAU/AppData/Roaming/DAZ 3D/Studio4 Public Build/customactions.dsx
    [ERROR] :: Open File Failed - The file could not be opened: C:/Users/TAU/AppData/Roaming/DAZ 3D/Studio4 Public Build/menus.dsx
    [ERROR] :: Open File Failed - The file could not be opened: C:/Users/TAU/AppData/Roaming/DAZ 3D/Studio4 Public Build/actionmgr.dsx
    [ERROR] :: Open File Failed - The file could not be opened: L:/DAZ 3D/Applications/64-bit/DAZ 3D/DAZStudio4 Public Build/resources/actionmgr.dsx
    [ERROR] :: Open File Failed - The file could not be opened: L:/DAZ 3D/Applications/64-bit/DAZ 3D/DAZStudio4 Public Build/resources/dazstudio.mnu
    [ERROR] :: Open File Failed - The file could not be opened: C:/Users/TAU/AppData/Roaming/DAZ 3D/Studio4 Public Build/toolbars.dsx

     

    Do those files actually exist? If so, what are the file premissions, e.g. are they read-only?

    Post edited by DoctorJellybean on
  • No, they don't. And no matter what I do they don't seem to be created either.

  • second_technician_rimmer_9571136c47 said:

    No, they don't. And no matter what I do they don't seem to be created either.

    That sounds like folder permissions. If you are willing to try an easy potential fix/check, make sure Studio isn't running and rename this folder:

    %AppData%/DAZ 3D/Studio4 Public Build

    Rename it to %AppData%/DAZ 3D/_Studio4 Public Build (add an underscore before Studio4).

    Restart DAZ Studio and that folder should be recreated and hopefully the missing files will be created.

    According to the log, some Iray libs are failing to load. How did you install this release? I mean did you use Install Manager (DIM)? If you did, can you remember if vcredist was allowed to run (normal part of installation via Install Manager).

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 9,587

    DoctorJellybean said:

    According to the log, some Iray libs are failing to load. How did you install this release? I mean did you use Install Manager (DIM)? If you did, can you remember if vcredist was allowed to run (normal part of installation via Install Manager).

    If you are referring to;

    Could not add path: "C:/Users/TAU/AppData/Roaming/DAZ 3D/Studio4 Public Build/shaders/iray"
    Could not add path: "K:/TEMP DAZ/shaders/iray"

    Those are there for everyone, one can be created by one self and it stops complaining, but the other one is deleted at startup even if created

  • Ok I tried the fix, loaded City Limis Lite and added some stuff in the tool bar. It didn't take.I'll try to remove the release, delete every daz3d reference in the appdata, reboot and reinstall it. Who knows? but it'll have to be tomorrow.

  • jbowlerjbowler Posts: 745

    DoctorJellybean said:

    second_technician_rimmer_9571136c47 said:

    No, they don't. And no matter what I do they don't seem to be created either.

    That sounds like folder permissions.

    It's also caused by the Windows 10+ ransomware protection; even if DAZStudio was allowed through before changing the installation path or installing the public release for the first time will hit ransomware protection issues.  I have the following allowed through:

    DzCreateExPFiles.exe
    DAZStudio.exe (both general and public)
    shaderdl.exe (only public)
    cmgen.exe (both general and public)
    DAZCentral.exe (not necessary with DIM, I was checking it out)
    vcredist_x64_vc10.exe (the one in DAZ3DIM1)
    DAZDIMHelper.exe
    DAZ3DIM.exe

    It's pretty much necessary to watch for every message warning that a program was blocked and deal with it.  I typically turn ransomware protection off before launching DIM to install a major update; there's just too much to go wrong.
     

  • PerttiA said:

    DoctorJellybean said:

    According to the log, some Iray libs are failing to load. How did you install this release? I mean did you use Install Manager (DIM)? If you did, can you remember if vcredist was allowed to run (normal part of installation via Install Manager).

    If you are referring to;

    Could not add path: "C:/Users/TAU/AppData/Roaming/DAZ 3D/Studio4 Public Build/shaders/iray"
    Could not add path: "K:/TEMP DAZ/shaders/iray"

    Those are there for everyone, one can be created by one self and it stops complaining, but the other one is deleted at startup even if created

    The second, at least, is not a default - and it could well be on an external drive or otherwise not available (-2 "Invalid path"). In any event they are not directly relevant to the question asked.

  • K is not even external, it's a fixed drive that I always used for this. I just tried to uninstall it all, reinstall DS beta and the PostGRSQL through DIM. I then picked City Limits Lite, applied it, left. When I loaded DS again, the toolbar was gone again. I tried it with simply loading City Limit Lite and leaving the bar as normal, same deal, the bar is gone.

    I also took a look at the anti-ransomware bit and I'm told the page is unavailable because my IT won't allow it. Must DIM be launched as admin or something?

  • edited March 2022

    Jbowler, where do you allow these files? Exploit Protection?

    Post edited by second_technician_rimmer_9571136c47 on
  • second_technician_rimmer_9571136c47 said:

    K is not even external, it's a fixed drive that I always used for this. I just tried to uninstall it all, reinstall DS beta and the PostGRSQL through DIM. I then picked City Limits Lite, applied it, left. When I loaded DS again, the toolbar was gone again. I tried it with simply loading City Limit Lite and leaving the bar as normal, same deal, the bar is gone.

    I also took a look at the anti-ransomware bit and I'm told the page is unavailable because my IT won't allow it. Must DIM be launched as admin or something?

    DIM can't be run as Admin.

    There is more info on the protection in this article:

    https://www.theverge.com/22889631/windows-10-11-ransomware-defense-security-how-to

    How exactly is IT involved with your system?

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