Why Centaurs?

124

Comments

  • Guildwars has some interesting takes on Centaurs, giving them more unique heads than most art - more goat-like.

    First two from a plains tribe:

    And then from a mountain tribe and a desert tribe:

  • Oso3D said:

    I've thought of doing a harpy but man, making and rigging wings scare me.

     

    Oso, I'm waiting.  The V4 version is really awkward to keep using.

  • Oso3D said:

    I've thought of doing a harpy but man, making and rigging wings scare me.

     

    Oso, I'm waiting.  The V4 version is really awkward to keep using.

    Same here. I've been wanting a newer harpy model since V4 hasn't aged well for my taste.

  • RedfernRedfern Posts: 1,647
    edited October 2019
    Oso3D said:

    I've thought of doing a harpy but man, making and rigging wings scare me.

     

    Oso, I'm waiting.  The V4 version is really awkward to keep using.

    Same here. I've been wanting a newer harpy model since V4 hasn't aged well for my taste.

    Hmm, maybe a hickory smoke might do the trick.wink

    Sincerely,

    Bill

    Post edited by Redfern on
  • Gordig said:

    Short answer: it’s a sex thing. 

    this is the right answer. .2 seconds after the first centaur appeared, its gens were already available on rotica.

    personally i dont like horse sex (this is all it is) so i dont like centaurs by extension. it pains me to see cool looking armor only available for centaurs. and certain models.

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    Centauri prime is their home planet.

  • wizwiz Posts: 1,100
    RawArt said:

    This forum needs a "love" button. heart

  • wizwiz Posts: 1,100
    wiz said:
    • Massive arms on the females, because foals at birth weigh about 10% of what the mare weighs (140lb if we call the average centaur 1,400 pounds), and 30% (420lb) at three months, a good weaning age.

    I have some quibbles here.

    ~~~~~

    The first is the proportions of a centaur. For reference, this is one of the Parthenon sculptures. Genuine original Greek sculpture, most of two and a half thousand years old; if there is an authoritative source for what centaurs look like, the artwork from the primary temple in the capital city of the culture that came up with them is that source.

    Great reference.

    But even with the reduced mass in the horse portion, it's hard to see how you'd get enough food and air through that moutn.

    And we can see from that that the human torso is fairly normally sized. So the horse portion is really more of a pony, probably no more than around 10-12 hands tall. Ponies of this size weigh more like 400-500 pounds. Even allowing for the human portion being heavier than a horse's head, and being a bit generous about their sizing I would say that your estimate of their weight is probably too large by a factor of at least 2, quite possibly 3.

    Possibly. I'm just not that sure of the usefulness of that particular centaur. What sort of trotting or galloping speed and range can we get from a 400lb pony, sharing bloodflow with a human-sized brain? And can a 400lb pony carry an adult human for any appreciable distance, because that always seems to enter centaur discussions at some point.

    The second is that I think you would have to presume that centaur growth rates are different. Humans have very slow maturation (and a surprisingly long life span in general) compared to our body weight. Generally, for a creature of our size, you would expect us to hit adult maturity around three or four years of age, not the 18-20 years we actually do. (Dogs hit full adult maturity at around 1-2 years depending on breed, horses hit their maturity around age five. Things in our size range, like big cats, are somewhere in between). You have to look at huge creatures like elephants, weighing in at a few tonnes, to find creatures with similar maturity and longevity.

    How about cetaceans? Dolphins, which outbrain us in both size and sophistication, have pretty slow maturation rates, and huge gestation periods. Some species have comparable 60+ year lifespans (barring accident or predation).

    Biologically, you can't grow anything as complex as the human (and, by extension, centaur) brain quickly, so we can't reasonably say that the human half grows faster than normal, and each portion growing at its normal rate would be completely torturous from the perspective of the skeletal and musculature changes.

    If we're presuming the existence of a centaur creature and trying to rationalise it, the only biologically plausible interpretation is that centaurs, both halves of them, mature at around the same rate as humans.

    That was one of my points, yes.

    With those two factors in mind, I would say that a centaur is probably roughly twice the weight of a human of similar development, but we'll round up a bit for the sake of argument.

    Way up. I don't think it will be biomechanically stable until you reach about 4x human weight.

    With the World Health Organisation recommending at least partial breastfeeding until two years of age, that would put an average centaur child at maybe 30 kilos/65 lbs by weaning age.

    Which is admittedly fairly heavy (although not unthinkably), but given a lot of human mothers choose to sit down to breastfeed anyway, there's no reason a centaur mother couldn't do the same. (Okay, horses might only normally lie down for full sleep, but they are capable of it and obviously a centaur would be capable of complex decision making).

    If we assume similar maturation rates, a centaur is going to be pretty "floppy".

    So I don't think this is quite such a huge hole in the logic as you're making it out to be.

    I still think it's going to be pretty complex.

  • wizwiz Posts: 1,100

    Two other thoughts...

    First, who dresses centaurs? I've been looking at some of the clothing and armor, and most of it seems rather difficult for a centaur to manage single-handedly. I think it would take two additional centaurs (or an equal number Oh, and why no pants? One of the main purposes of human clothing is covering the anatomical elements.

     

  • wizwiz Posts: 1,100

    Second (and hopefully this won't get my post deleted) what about same-sex partnership (best euphamism I can come up with on short notice). Considering the culture that postulated centaurs, we would expect there to be a lot of that, but looking at the primary methods of expression for both genders, it just doesn't look either as practicable or as enjoyable as it is for humans. Then again, conventional relations don't seem like that much fun, either.

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744

    I got a good giggle about the debate about the biological science of mythological / fantastical creatures like centaurs.

    As for "Why centaurs?"

    *shrug*

    Centaurs are cool. As a kid, of all the fantastic creatures I read about in mythology and fantasy and science fiction, I most wanted to be a centaur. The power and speed of the horse along with being able to speak and having hands and arms to wield weapons and use tools sounded awesome to me.

  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 3,020
    wiz said:
    Possibly. I'm just not that sure of the usefulness of that particular centaur. What sort of trotting or galloping speed and range can we get from a 400lb pony, sharing bloodflow with a human-sized brain? And can a 400lb pony carry an adult human for any appreciable distance, because that always seems to enter centaur discussions at some point.

    Centaurs aren't really supposed to be "useful". Depending on which version of the myth you go with, they were the children of various gods/nymphs/other supernatural beings (or the monarchy, who in ancient myth might as well be supernatural beings).

    They also were by no means the better of humanoids; in their most famed legend, the Centauromachy battle depicted in the Parthenon sculptures, they were defeated by the Lapiths (who were possibly also descended from the gods, again depending on your version of the myth, but any advantage each side had from divine blood was at least mostly balanced out).

    How about cetaceans? Dolphins, which outbrain us in both size and sophistication, have pretty slow maturation rates, and huge gestation periods. Some species have comparable 60+ year lifespans (barring accident or predation).

    That's not really contradicting my point. Complex brains mean slow development; Dolphins do generally reach maturity sooner than us (although still slowly), but that's because they can gestate for a very long time to get a head start - not having a pelvis, there's no limitation of the baby having to be born before it gets too big to pass through that gap (which is a big part of why human babies are so helpless). So they're not a great comparison for how fast land mammals mature.

    That was one of my points, yes.

    You said that a centaur's weight would triple in the first three months. It usually takes a human baby about 12-15 months to do the same, so if you were trying to suggest that they'd mature at human rates, I have to at least disagree with the numbers you quoted.

    I don't think it will be biomechanically stable until you reach about 4x human weight.

    If we're talking about them being front heavy, a centaur's human torso is centred pretty much above the front legs, rather than a horse's head being out in front. Yes, the human torso is probably somewhat heavier, but horse's heads aren't exactly an insignificant portion of their weight.

    (Also, speaking from experience of seeing my dogs picking up stupidly heavy objects - including on one occasion coming back with a very sizeable fence post - most quadrupeds really can afford to become more front heavy).

    wiz said:

    who dresses centaurs? I've been looking at some of the clothing and armor, and most of it seems rather difficult for a centaur to manage single-handedly. I think it would take two additional centaurs (or an equal number Oh, and why no pants? One of the main purposes of human clothing is covering the anatomical elements.

    The answer to the second question is probably largely the first. They don't wear trousers because trousers would be really difficult to put on.

    If there's another answer, the main practical purpose of clothing is really to provide a barrier from the elements (rather than than to cover up nudity, which is more of a cultural purpose). Horses already have a coat.

  • Trousers *are* really difficult to put on, yet I'm still required to do so. Why do centaurs get an exception?
  • carrie58carrie58 Posts: 4,094
    Trousers *are* really difficult to put on, yet I'm still required to do so. Why do centaurs get an exception?"

    Cause they can't reach their own flies ........??

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744
    Trousers *are* really difficult to put on, yet I'm still required to do so. Why do centaurs get an exception?

    Kilts for the win!

  • RedfernRedfern Posts: 1,647
    carrie58 said:
    Trousers *are* really difficult to put on, yet I'm still required to do so. Why do centaurs get an exception?"

    Cause they can't reach their own flies ........??

    Post of the week!

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,178

  • cherpenbeckcherpenbeck Posts: 1,416

    First one. Everything else would take too long to get rid of if meeting with a female.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    Number 3 is the coolestlaugh

  • carrie58carrie58 Posts: 4,094

    But #1 would cause binding issues when moving faster than a walk and would need suspenders to keep from falling down while walking  .......

  • AsariAsari Posts: 703

    You're a rockstar!
  • Noah LGPNoah LGP Posts: 2,617
    edited October 2019

    Like this

     

     

    Post edited by Noah LGP on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,178
    Asari said:

     

    You're a rockstar!

    Googler more like it devil

    have seen similar images here Centaur 7 but recall only 2 styles then

    they have become more fashion concious

     

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    in the cartoon hercules had a fawn boy friend, boy,bodyof deer

  • RedfernRedfern Posts: 1,647
    edited October 2019
    Mystarra said:

    in the cartoon hercules had a fawn boy friend, boy,bodyof deer

    Just to clarify, you're speaking of the 1963 cartoon series syndicated via Trans-Lux Television and not the Disney adaptation, right?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mighty_Hercules

    Google collection of Mighty Hercules images

    His main sidekick was Newton, a still rather young and thus still rather slight centaur, who, in turn, had his own friend a very young satyr (or fawn, if you will) named Tewt who "spoke" only through syrinx pipes.  (Think of him as a kind of proto R2-D2.)  Newton was, unfortunately, equally annoying as he repeated every sentence he uttered.

    Still, the series had one of the most memorable opening themes, sung by Johnny Nash who would later gain fame for the pop single "I Can See Clearly Now (the rain is gone...)".

    Sincerely,

    Bill

    Post edited by Redfern on
  • "Herc! Herc!  Daedalus is in the forest!

    I loved that show as a kid :-)

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675
    edited October 2019

    yeah, i remember the pan pipes.  the herc cartoon is like my earliest memory.  and marine boy. remember his mermaid friend,  and capt kangaroo with mr green jeans

    oh yeah, he was a centaur, he even neighs

    dont know why i thought faun

    Post edited by Mistara on
  • RedfernRedfern Posts: 1,647

    Well, you stated it yourself, earliest memories.  It's easy for separate fragments to merge and blend.  It's possible you combined elements of Newton and Tewt into a single entity.  Besides, Newton was not the most "robust" of centaur specimens, lean like a deer, so I can see how he might be recalled as a different mythological creature, especially since a lot of his shots were from the waist upwards.

    Funny you should mention "Marine Boy".  During the 1980s, I began to doubt my "memories" of that series and another titled "Prince Planet".  When magzines like StarLog (briefly) discussed early Japanese animation imports like "Astro Boy" and "Kimba, the White Lion", nothing was ever stated about "Marine Boy" and "Prince Planet".  Was it possible I was merely distorting already fragmented memories of a known property, "Astro Boy"?  About 10 years later while browsing the dealers' room at an Atlanta based genre convention, Dragon*Con, I came across a bin of "off the air" VHS recordings of avrious shows.  Among those cassettes I found one labeled "Prince Planet", the other "Marine Boy"!  No way!  They HAD existed!!!

    Nowadays, with access to the internet, it's far earsier to dig up obscure information, but during the 80s and earlier, unless one was possibly part of a snail mail fan group whose members might associate with other groups, information like this was hard to uncover.  So, yeah, I suspected for awhile that I merely "dreamed it all up".

    Sincerely,

    Bill

  • carrie58carrie58 Posts: 4,094

    I loved "Prince Planet " and "Kimba the White Lion" had to get up early before school to watch them

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