Why Centaurs?

Malandar

RawArt said:

soon

Cool, something else I need.

I have a question though, will we be able to change how he looks weight, muscle mass, facial features, horns?  (if we need a hoard of satyrs, can't have them all looking the same)

nemesis10

I thought someone would mention the Old Spice Double Impact centaur: https://www.digitaldomain.com/work/old-spice-double-impact/

Noah LGP

cherpenbeck said:

All these Satyrs have too big hooves. They aren't descendants of horses and cows. Look at the goats. Look how small their hooves are, compared to their bodies and strong legs. Goats perfer living in mountains, where there is no space on steep mountein sides for big hooves. I would really like to get a Satyr or Fawn with realistical small hooves.

 

We could tell the same thing about the size of the horns and the tail... But there are many ways to represent satyr/faun

 

Oso3D

Thankfully, there are general scaling dials for feet and other stuff, so you should probably be able to adjust to taste.

 

 

ANGELREAPER1972

I've combined humans with dragons and raptors so far not easy. And there's the old spider woman and snake women/men and gorgons, and Rawart has done several different human creature hybrids as have others. And centaurs besides fairys, mermaids and minotaurs are the most common and popular human creature hybrids in fantasy

ANGELREAPER1972

I've combined humans with dragons and raptors so far not easy. And there's the old spider woman and snake women/men and gorgons, and Rawart has done several different human creature hybrids as have others. And centaurs besides fairys, mermaids and minotaurs are the most common and popular human creature hybrids in fantasy

Drip

Richard Haseltine said:

RawArt said:

It is always funny when peopletalk about reality when dealing with fantasy creatures.

There is no absolute fact from which to draw the design of such characters from, so everything is up to the eye of the artist and what they choose to accept as the most logic premise for the design. Goats hooves are small because they are not very heavy (when you break it down by weight per foot), and they evolved for rocky terrain. But if you were to put such a tiny hoof on someone of human size and weight, then the first patch of wet or muddy ground, they would immediately sink to their knees and get stuck. So it would limit believable renders to only be done on rocky ground. Making it less usable.

Must not say anythign about high heels on armour. Must not say anything about high heels on armour. Must not ... oh, High heels on armour!

(of course this would be worse - at least with high heels the toe portion can bear weight.)

RawArt said:

Also from a rendeing point of view, if hooves are small it will easily get lost and not read like a hoof and people would wonder why someone is standing on their toes all the time. So for good rendering of fantasy creatures some exaggeration is important.

 

 

At least they were actually a thing. Lazy reference, but there's a ton more to find on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-heeled_shoe#Pre-1700s

wiz

Drip said:

At least they were actually a thing. Lazy reference, but there's a ton more to find on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-heeled_shoe#Pre-1700s

Be careful, that particular page is heavily agendized by folks who, for reasons unknown, want to make historical high heels a much more common thing than they actually were, by overemphasizing some very special niche cases, like some rare shoe designed to work only with a particular type of Persian stirrup.

I don't think any high-heel armor in the DAZ-o-verse is suitable for use with Persian stirrups.

wiz

I've been tinkering around with biologically plausible mythological creatures. Do you have any idea what it takes to modify a human head and torso so that the mouth, esophagus, trachia, lungs, arms, and breasts can deal with the needs of 800-2000 pounds of quadraped capable of a 40+ mile/hour sprint and a sustained all-day gallop? Let's assume that they nurse human style, because most of us can't tell a male horse from a female without looking under, so we both want and need some human-level sexual dymorphism. Except I reversed some of it.

• Massive arms on the females, because foals at birth weigh about 10% of what the mare weighs (140lb if we call the average centaur 1,400 pounds), and 30% (420lb) at three months, a good weaning age. I get about 100 inch biceps. Remember, she's not got that foal in a "power lift" stance, she's scooping it up in her arms like a mom. You don't want to get punched by a centaur, or deal with something that can draw a nine foot long bow with a 300lb pull.
• Insane breasts. OK, some of you fantasy types are going to love that. A human female feeds a baby quite well with two breasts weighing just under 1 pound each (that's a 34C. Does any woman in the DAZ-o-verse that doesn't have "teen" in her name have 34C breasts?). So let's say 15 pounds each to get us to near weaning that foal. That's basically 4 full doublings. Breast weight doubles every 4 sizes (a "size" being your choice of 2 more inches on the band (chest, as defined by the ribs, not the "soft parts") or one cup size) so we need to go up 16 sizes. Let's put half of that in the band so we jump 8 sizes or 16 inches from a 34 to a 50. And the other 8 sizes goes into the cups, from a C to an M (remember that DD is the next size after D). 50M bra? Any of the clothing designers in the group want to tackle that? Remember, it has to be comfy at an all-day trot or a 40+ mile/hour full gallup.
• I gave them a bit of a snout, to accommodate a lot more mouth. A thicker throat for a wider esophagus.
• Gill flaps and a bypass mechanism separating the upper and lower lungs, so they can breathe through the human mouth and nose while at rest.
• The "anatomical elements" are "interesting".
• Oh, and they're opportunstic omnivorse and cannibals.

 

wiz

The one thing that doesn't need much tinkering, believe it or not, is satyrs. And they make evolutionary sense, since we've basically stopped using our toes for anything. Large feet help balance us, but so would a faster control system and a bit more lower body muscle.

Oso3D

Wiz: One note: human breast size is almost entirely about ornamentation. Look at chimp breasts.

 

carrie58

A Centaur mom wouldn't be arm cradleing her baby/foal ,because the horse portion would be able to stand within an hour after birth ,for tthe human portion to be eqivalent then it would be at least a toddler say 1-2 years old so it would stand on it's own and have enough muscle control in the human portion to be equal to the foal portion ........just my thought  plus less crying that way

 

RawArt

carrie58 said:

A Centaur mom wouldn't be arm cradleing her baby/foal ,because the horse portion would be able to stand within an hour after birth ,for tthe human portion to be eqivalent then it would be at least a toddler say 1-2 years old so it would stand on it's own and have enough muscle control in the human portion to be equal to the foal portion ........just my thought  plus less crying that way

 

carrie58

RawArt said:

carrie58 said:

A Centaur mom wouldn't be arm cradleing her baby/foal ,because the horse portion would be able to stand within an hour after birth ,for tthe human portion to be eqivalent then it would be at least a toddler say 1-2 years old so it would stand on it's own and have enough muscle control in the human portion to be equal to the foal portion ........just my thought  plus less crying that way

 

 

LOL!!!

WendyLuvsCatz

Pegasus makes less sense

well as a grass eater, with hooves not exactly the build and metabolism needed for flying

 

Eustace Scrubb

SadKitty_Carrara said:

Pegasus makes less sense

well as a grass eater, with hooves not exactly the build and metabolism needed for flying

Back when I had an active "Elfwood.com" account (under my real name, I think), I wrote up a short piece for their "Tutorial Essays" section that got turned down:  all about How to Draw a Dragon (or other mythical beasts, per anatomy), dealing with several of the same issues mentioned here.  Most especially, I was ridiculing the habit of artists (2D and 3D, I've discovered) to attach wings and forelegs to the same shoulders, sans muscular or skeletal allowance for either to be of much use.  I'm certain I've got a copy somewhere.

And @RawArt, if there's a G8F female satyr to go with that male, I hope they hit the store on payday!  (Can't be spending the grocery budget on 3D, now, can we?)

Silver Dolphin

You, ask why Centaurs? Well in my humble opinon it is because nothing is more magical than a human with a horse's ass. I think it makes you feel better about the size of your own glutes. Hey, look on the bright side >> you could be a Centaur and have a really big butt, and all the problems that comes with that!!!!! hahaha

Matt_Castle

wiz said:

• Massive arms on the females, because foals at birth weigh about 10% of what the mare weighs (140lb if we call the average centaur 1,400 pounds), and 30% (420lb) at three months, a good weaning age.

I have some quibbles here.

~~~~~

The first is the proportions of a centaur. For reference, this is one of the Parthenon sculptures. Genuine original Greek sculpture, most of two and a half thousand years old; if there is an authoritative source for what centaurs look like, the artwork from the primary temple in the capital city of the culture that came up with them is that source.

And we can see from that that the human torso is fairly normally sized. So the horse portion is really more of a pony, probably no more than around 10-12 hands tall. Ponies of this size weigh more like 400-500 pounds. Even allowing for the human portion being heavier than a horse's head, and being a bit generous about their sizing I would say that your estimate of their weight is probably too large by a factor of at least 2, quite possibly 3.

~~~~~

The second is that I think you would have to presume that centaur growth rates are different. Humans have very slow maturation (and a surprisingly long life span in general) compared to our body weight. Generally, for a creature of our size, you would expect us to hit adult maturity around three or four years of age, not the 18-20 years we actually do. (Dogs hit full adult maturity at around 1-2 years depending on breed, horses hit their maturity around age five. Things in our size range, like big cats, are somewhere in between). You have to look at huge creatures like elephants, weighing in at a few tonnes, to find creatures with similar maturity and longevity.

Biologically, you can't grow anything as complex as the human (and, by extension, centaur) brain quickly, so we can't reasonably say that the human half grows faster than normal, and each portion growing at its normal rate would be completely torturous from the perspective of the skeletal and musculature changes.

If we're presuming the existence of a centaur creature and trying to rationalise it, the only biologically plausible interpretation is that centaurs, both halves of them, mature at around the same rate as humans.

~~~~~

With those two factors in mind, I would say that a centaur is probably roughly twice the weight of a human of similar development, but we'll round up a bit for the sake of argument. With the World Health Organisation recommending at least partial breastfeeding until two years of age, that would put an average centaur child at maybe 30 kilos/65 lbs by weaning age.

Which is admittedly fairly heavy (although not unthinkably), but given a lot of human mothers choose to sit down to breastfeed anyway, there's no reason a centaur mother couldn't do the same. (Okay, horses might only normally lie down for full sleep, but they are capable of it and obviously a centaur would be capable of complex decision making).

So I don't think this is quite such a huge hole in the logic as you're making it out to be.

ANGELREAPER1972

from Xena, a centaur had a baby with a human female

Alley Rat

This will be a Day 1 purchase from me (or as soon as I get paid if it comes out before then).

RawArt said:

soon

 

nonesuch00

I guess centaurs are a hint for people to eat oats and not horse meat.

ChadCrypto

Matt_Castle said:

wiz said:

• Massive arms on the females, because foals at birth weigh about 10% of what the mare weighs (140lb if we call the average centaur 1,400 pounds), and 30% (420lb) at three months, a good weaning age.

I have some quibbles here.

~~~~~

The first is the proportions of a centaur. For reference, this is one of the Parthenon sculptures. Genuine original Greek sculpture, most of two and a half thousand years old; if there is an authoritative source for what centaurs look like, the artwork from the primary temple in the capital city of the culture that came up with them is that source.

And we can see from that that the human torso is fairly normally sized. So the horse portion is really more of a pony, probably no more than around 10-12 hands tall. Ponies of this size weigh more like 400-500 pounds. Even allowing for the human portion being heavier than a horse's head, and being a bit generous about their sizing I would say that your estimate of their weight is probably too large by a factor of at least 2, quite possibly 3.

~~~~~

The second is that I think you would have to presume that centaur growth rates are different. Humans have very slow maturation (and a surprisingly long life span in general) compared to our body weight. Generally, for a creature of our size, you would expect us to hit adult maturity around three or four years of age, not the 18-20 years we actually do. (Dogs hit full adult maturity at around 1-2 years depending on breed, horses hit their maturity around age five. Things in our size range, like big cats, are somewhere in between). You have to look at huge creatures like elephants, weighing in at a few tonnes, to find creatures with similar maturity and longevity.

Biologically, you can't grow anything as complex as the human (and, by extension, centaur) brain quickly, so we can't reasonably say that the human half grows faster than normal, and each portion growing at its normal rate would be completely torturous from the perspective of the skeletal and musculature changes.

If we're presuming the existence of a centaur creature and trying to rationalise it, the only biologically plausible interpretation is that centaurs, both halves of them, mature at around the same rate as humans.

~~~~~

With those two factors in mind, I would say that a centaur is probably roughly twice the weight of a human of similar development, but we'll round up a bit for the sake of argument. With the World Health Organisation recommending at least partial breastfeeding until two years of age, that would put an average centaur child at maybe 30 kilos/65 lbs by weaning age.

Which is admittedly fairly heavy (although not unthinkably), but given a lot of human mothers choose to sit down to breastfeed anyway, there's no reason a centaur mother couldn't do the same. (Okay, horses might only normally lie down for full sleep, but they are capable of it and obviously a centaur would be capable of complex decision making).

So I don't think this is quite such a huge hole in the logic as you're making it out to be.

He was Mr. Ed! Thoomp! LOL! 

cimenroller2

Centaurs are sexy. why you hate them? :D

chaynawolfsmoon

Richard Haseltine said:

RawArt said:

It is always funny when peopletalk about reality when dealing with fantasy creatures.

There is no absolute fact from which to draw the design of such characters from, so everything is up to the eye of the artist and what they choose to accept as the most logic premise for the design. Goats hooves are small because they are not very heavy (when you break it down by weight per foot), and they evolved for rocky terrain. But if you were to put such a tiny hoof on someone of human size and weight, then the first patch of wet or muddy ground, they would immediately sink to their knees and get stuck. So it would limit believable renders to only be done on rocky ground. Making it less usable.

Must not say anythign about high heels on armour. Must not say anything about high heels on armour. Must not ... oh, High heels on armour!

(of course this would be worse - at least with high heels the toe portion can bear weight.)

RawArt said:

Also from a rendeing point of view, if hooves are small it will easily get lost and not read like a hoof and people would wonder why someone is standing on their toes all the time. So for good rendering of fantasy creatures some exaggeration is important.

 

 

I can do amazing things in heels...

 

Asari said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Must not say anythign about high heels on armour. Must not say anything about high heels on armour. Must not ... oh, High heels on armour!

 

 

 

I thought of high heels as well ... and not only armor, high heels on all outfits where the promo images are rendered in outdoor environments, usually forest or woodland or meadow environments give me the same feeling.

Drat! Soft ground is my heels kryptonite...

ANGELREAPER1972

WendyLuvsCatz

ANGELREAPER1972 said:

carrie58

ANGELREAPER1972 said:

Hahahahah

RAMWolff

SadKitty_Carrara said:

Pegasus makes less sense

well as a grass eater, with hooves not exactly the build and metabolism needed for flying

 

Maybe they eat Carrara critters!  

WendyLuvsCatz

RAMWolff said:

SadKitty_Carrara said:

Pegasus makes less sense

well as a grass eater, with hooves not exactly the build and metabolism needed for flying

 

Maybe they eat Carrara critters!  

No we get clubbed

Mistara

AlmightyQUEST said:

Gordig said:

Short answer: it’s a sex thing. 

Wouldn't that mean far more satyrs?

+1 for satyrs 

(satyrs with tails where a tail should be)

misread centaurs as dentures