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Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.11.0.383! (*UPDATED*)

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  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,275
    edited June 2019

    Here is yet another Strand-Based Hair Editor problem. This time it has to do with the new Offset feature in the Attract tool. It seems like changing the offset value has no affect until I change the tool to something else and then come back to the Attract tool.

    Create a 1 meter cube with 5 divisions. Create a new Strand-Based Hair on the cube. Open the Strand-Based Hair editor, fill the Hair Density map with 100% and Distribute some hairs. Then go to the Style tab and select the Attract tool. Change the offset to 5. Drag the Attract slider to 1. Note that the style curves are tight against the cube. The offset of 5 was ignored. 

    Now start over. Create another new Strand-Based Hair on the cube. Open the Strand-Based Hair editor, fill the Hair Density map with 100% and Distribute some hairs. Then go to the Style tab and select the Attract tool. Change the offset to 5. BUT DON'T CHANGE THE ATTRACT VALUE YET. Select another tool (I selected the Curve tool.)  Immediately switch back to the Attract too. Drag the Attract slider to 1. Note that the style curves are NOT tight against the cube this time. The offset is now taken into account, evidently.

    Edit: I just discovered that this is not just an initialization problem. Anytime I have the Attract tool selected and I change the Offset value, that change in Offset is IGNORED until I switch tools and then go back to the Attract tool. The Attract tool only uses the Offset value that was in effect at the time the Attract tool is selected (i.e. the value that was set the PREVIOUS time the Attract tool was used.) 

    Edit 2: Here is another confusing thing about the Attract tool and Offset. After hitting Accept and going back into the Strand-Based Hair Editor, it remembers the Offset value I had used in the last session, but not the Attract value. Now it shows an Offset of 5, but an Attract value of 0. This is confusing to me, because the style curves are definitely flattened (attracted) to the cube surface, but the Attract value is shown as 0. To get back to straight style curves, I have to set the Attract value to -1. I guess I have to interpret the Attract value as being RELATIVE to the current style curve position, and not an ABSOLUTE attraction value.

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    Post edited by barbult on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,275

    Strand- Based Hair Editor puzzle: Why does the display of "Show Hairs w/Widths" differ so drastically with the percent of hairs shown? Is the intent to simulate coverage of the underlying surface rather than to simulate the width of individual hairs? I expected the hair width to stay the same when changing the percentage Amount of hair being shown. I expected that an increased percentage would just show more hairs. That is not how it works, though. The width of the hair shown seems roughly inversely proportional to the percentage of hairs shown. Is this a bug or a feature?

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  • a0000100sa0000100s Posts: 13
    edited April 2021

    DEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Post edited by a0000100s on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,159
    barbult said:

    Strand-Based Hair Editor inconsistencies with style curve selection in the Style tab:

    First, what does it mean when none of the style curves are highlighted green? It would seem to mean that none of them are selected for modification with the tools. However, when the Strand-Based Hair Editor is first opened, all of the style curves are blue (not selected?) and yet all the tools in the second and third rows apply to ALL style curves. Even Reset Curves applies to All style curves in this blue state. I would not expect any tools to work on curves that are blue (not selected?) . This seems wrong, if green means selected and blue means not selected.

    Next, use one of the first three tools in the first row to select some style curves. They selected ones turn green (selected?). The tools in the second and third rows, including Reset Curves, apply only to the green (selected?) curves. The blue style curves are unaffected.This seems like the correct differentiation between selected (green) and unselected (blue), and what I would expect to happen. 

    Now finally, use the first tool in the first row to click outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves. All curves turn blue again (unselected?). Now it is ALMOST back to the initial confusing state of all blue (unselected?) curves being affected by the tools. All of the tools in the second and third rows affect all stye curves again. EXCEPT now Reset Curves does not affect any curves.

    I think green and blue should consistently indicate whether or not a style curve is selected to be affected by the tools. And the tools (including Reset Curves) should consistently operate only on curves that are properly displayed as being selected. This is not currently the case. It is confusing as it is now.

    This is how modo/Lightwave work - if nothing is selected then everything is selected. It saves having to do Select All before any global change. If you do make an explicit selection then that limits the effect. Not arguing it isn't potentially confusing, but it does have precedent and logic.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,159
    a0000100s said:
    L'Adair said:
    a0000100s said:

    After update my Daz3d 4.11 public build, my rtx 2070 not been using again OMG

    4.11.0.382 with 430.86 Studio Driver

    @a0000100s, Try installing an older driver, like 419.67 Creator Ready Driver. Here's a link to the Win10 64-bit download page.

     

    paulbungard said:

    Seems my GPU's do not like working together in Iray my 1080ti and 2080ti.  They both crash back to CPU only if I have them setup normally. I've found the only way to get them to work correctly is to dial there power down to 50% I know it's not a PSU problem as I have tried 2 different power supply's the newest one being 1200 watts. Seems perplexing     

    @paulbungard, I'm wondering what driver you're using? And have you tried using another driver?

    https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/147971/en-us

    Applications
    Provides the optimal experience for the latest releases of top creative apps, including Autodesk Maya 2019, 3ds Max 2020, Arnold 5.3.1.0, Blackmagic Design DaVinci Resolve 16, and Daz 3D Daz Studio.

    I am pretty sure 4.11.0.380 is work with my 430.86 Studio Driver

    But 4.11.0.382 not work with new studio driver

    The version of iray in DS has not changed since 4.11.0.313, which predates both of those vesions - if iray has stopped working between the two then there must be some other factor involved.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,275
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:

    Strand-Based Hair Editor inconsistencies with style curve selection in the Style tab:

    First, what does it mean when none of the style curves are highlighted green? It would seem to mean that none of them are selected for modification with the tools. However, when the Strand-Based Hair Editor is first opened, all of the style curves are blue (not selected?) and yet all the tools in the second and third rows apply to ALL style curves. Even Reset Curves applies to All style curves in this blue state. I would not expect any tools to work on curves that are blue (not selected?) . This seems wrong, if green means selected and blue means not selected.

    Next, use one of the first three tools in the first row to select some style curves. They selected ones turn green (selected?). The tools in the second and third rows, including Reset Curves, apply only to the green (selected?) curves. The blue style curves are unaffected.This seems like the correct differentiation between selected (green) and unselected (blue), and what I would expect to happen. 

    Now finally, use the first tool in the first row to click outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves. All curves turn blue again (unselected?). Now it is ALMOST back to the initial confusing state of all blue (unselected?) curves being affected by the tools. All of the tools in the second and third rows affect all stye curves again. EXCEPT now Reset Curves does not affect any curves.

    I think green and blue should consistently indicate whether or not a style curve is selected to be affected by the tools. And the tools (including Reset Curves) should consistently operate only on curves that are properly displayed as being selected. This is not currently the case. It is confusing as it is now.

    This is how modo/Lightwave work - if nothing is selected then everything is selected. It saves having to do Select All before any global change. If you do make an explicit selection then that limits the effect. Not arguing it isn't potentially confusing, but it does have precedent and logic.

    Well, that's an interesting concept! I've never used either of those programs, so that thought never occurred to me. Without any documentation, I have only trial and error and logic to try to figure out how it is supposed to work. I am looking for consistency in the color cues that are displayed. When you are looking at the interface, and see all visible style curves are blue,  how can you tell whether it means that everything (aka nothing) is selected, or whether something out if view (other side of head) is selected? 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,159
    barbult said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:

    Strand-Based Hair Editor inconsistencies with style curve selection in the Style tab:

    First, what does it mean when none of the style curves are highlighted green? It would seem to mean that none of them are selected for modification with the tools. However, when the Strand-Based Hair Editor is first opened, all of the style curves are blue (not selected?) and yet all the tools in the second and third rows apply to ALL style curves. Even Reset Curves applies to All style curves in this blue state. I would not expect any tools to work on curves that are blue (not selected?) . This seems wrong, if green means selected and blue means not selected.

    Next, use one of the first three tools in the first row to select some style curves. They selected ones turn green (selected?). The tools in the second and third rows, including Reset Curves, apply only to the green (selected?) curves. The blue style curves are unaffected.This seems like the correct differentiation between selected (green) and unselected (blue), and what I would expect to happen. 

    Now finally, use the first tool in the first row to click outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves. All curves turn blue again (unselected?). Now it is ALMOST back to the initial confusing state of all blue (unselected?) curves being affected by the tools. All of the tools in the second and third rows affect all stye curves again. EXCEPT now Reset Curves does not affect any curves.

    I think green and blue should consistently indicate whether or not a style curve is selected to be affected by the tools. And the tools (including Reset Curves) should consistently operate only on curves that are properly displayed as being selected. This is not currently the case. It is confusing as it is now.

    This is how modo/Lightwave work - if nothing is selected then everything is selected. It saves having to do Select All before any global change. If you do make an explicit selection then that limits the effect. Not arguing it isn't potentially confusing, but it does have precedent and logic.

    Well, that's an interesting concept! I've never used either of those programs, so that thought never occurred to me. Without any documentation, I have only trial and error and logic to try to figure out how it is supposed to work. I am looking for consistency in the color cues that are displayed. When you are looking at the interface, and see all visible style curves are blue,  how can you tell whether it means that everything (aka nothing) is selected, or whether something out if view (other side of head) is selected? 

    I am told documentation is being worked on.

  • ParadigmParadigm Posts: 421

    I've already submitted a bug ticket, but I just wanted to add this bug I've found. On DS 4.11.0.366 that when moving dials with no limits the dial will get "stuck" going one direction very quickly so the object will fly away or rotate very quickly and if you movee the dial the opposite direction the direction does not reverse. This also happens with dials with very large limits (-36000000 - 36000000).

    Tamping down the limits to reasonable sizes stops this, but that's a huge PITA to do to everything.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,275
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:

    Strand-Based Hair Editor inconsistencies with style curve selection in the Style tab:

    First, what does it mean when none of the style curves are highlighted green? It would seem to mean that none of them are selected for modification with the tools. However, when the Strand-Based Hair Editor is first opened, all of the style curves are blue (not selected?) and yet all the tools in the second and third rows apply to ALL style curves. Even Reset Curves applies to All style curves in this blue state. I would not expect any tools to work on curves that are blue (not selected?) . This seems wrong, if green means selected and blue means not selected.

    Next, use one of the first three tools in the first row to select some style curves. They selected ones turn green (selected?). The tools in the second and third rows, including Reset Curves, apply only to the green (selected?) curves. The blue style curves are unaffected.This seems like the correct differentiation between selected (green) and unselected (blue), and what I would expect to happen. 

    Now finally, use the first tool in the first row to click outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves. All curves turn blue again (unselected?). Now it is ALMOST back to the initial confusing state of all blue (unselected?) curves being affected by the tools. All of the tools in the second and third rows affect all stye curves again. EXCEPT now Reset Curves does not affect any curves.

    I think green and blue should consistently indicate whether or not a style curve is selected to be affected by the tools. And the tools (including Reset Curves) should consistently operate only on curves that are properly displayed as being selected. This is not currently the case. It is confusing as it is now.

    This is how modo/Lightwave work - if nothing is selected then everything is selected. It saves having to do Select All before any global change. If you do make an explicit selection then that limits the effect. Not arguing it isn't potentially confusing, but it does have precedent and logic.

    Well, that's an interesting concept! I've never used either of those programs, so that thought never occurred to me. Without any documentation, I have only trial and error and logic to try to figure out how it is supposed to work. I am looking for consistency in the color cues that are displayed. When you are looking at the interface, and see all visible style curves are blue,  how can you tell whether it means that everything (aka nothing) is selected, or whether something out if view (other side of head) is selected? 

    I am told documentation is being worked on.

    yes Good to hear confirmation of that. Ever since the beta forum threads were reorganized, I've been pretty much lost in finding where things are written down. There used to be a convenient link to the documentation ("in progress" but still empty, when I last was able to find the link). Now I don't know what thread those links are in. I'm sure the new thread organization will eventually make sense to me.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,159
    barbult said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:

    Strand-Based Hair Editor inconsistencies with style curve selection in the Style tab:

    First, what does it mean when none of the style curves are highlighted green? It would seem to mean that none of them are selected for modification with the tools. However, when the Strand-Based Hair Editor is first opened, all of the style curves are blue (not selected?) and yet all the tools in the second and third rows apply to ALL style curves. Even Reset Curves applies to All style curves in this blue state. I would not expect any tools to work on curves that are blue (not selected?) . This seems wrong, if green means selected and blue means not selected.

    Next, use one of the first three tools in the first row to select some style curves. They selected ones turn green (selected?). The tools in the second and third rows, including Reset Curves, apply only to the green (selected?) curves. The blue style curves are unaffected.This seems like the correct differentiation between selected (green) and unselected (blue), and what I would expect to happen. 

    Now finally, use the first tool in the first row to click outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves. All curves turn blue again (unselected?). Now it is ALMOST back to the initial confusing state of all blue (unselected?) curves being affected by the tools. All of the tools in the second and third rows affect all stye curves again. EXCEPT now Reset Curves does not affect any curves.

    I think green and blue should consistently indicate whether or not a style curve is selected to be affected by the tools. And the tools (including Reset Curves) should consistently operate only on curves that are properly displayed as being selected. This is not currently the case. It is confusing as it is now.

    This is how modo/Lightwave work - if nothing is selected then everything is selected. It saves having to do Select All before any global change. If you do make an explicit selection then that limits the effect. Not arguing it isn't potentially confusing, but it does have precedent and logic.

    Well, that's an interesting concept! I've never used either of those programs, so that thought never occurred to me. Without any documentation, I have only trial and error and logic to try to figure out how it is supposed to work. I am looking for consistency in the color cues that are displayed. When you are looking at the interface, and see all visible style curves are blue,  how can you tell whether it means that everything (aka nothing) is selected, or whether something out if view (other side of head) is selected? 

    I am told documentation is being worked on.

    yes Good to hear confirmation of that. Ever since the beta forum threads were reorganized, I've been pretty much lost in finding where things are written down. There used to be a convenient link to the documentation ("in progress" but still empty, when I last was able to find the link). Now I don't know what thread those links are in. I'm sure the new thread organization will eventually make sense to me.

    Is this the one you mean? https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/330101/daz-studio-pro-4-11-highlights

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,275
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:

    Strand-Based Hair Editor inconsistencies with style curve selection in the Style tab:

    First, what does it mean when none of the style curves are highlighted green? It would seem to mean that none of them are selected for modification with the tools. However, when the Strand-Based Hair Editor is first opened, all of the style curves are blue (not selected?) and yet all the tools in the second and third rows apply to ALL style curves. Even Reset Curves applies to All style curves in this blue state. I would not expect any tools to work on curves that are blue (not selected?) . This seems wrong, if green means selected and blue means not selected.

    Next, use one of the first three tools in the first row to select some style curves. They selected ones turn green (selected?). The tools in the second and third rows, including Reset Curves, apply only to the green (selected?) curves. The blue style curves are unaffected.This seems like the correct differentiation between selected (green) and unselected (blue), and what I would expect to happen. 

    Now finally, use the first tool in the first row to click outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves. All curves turn blue again (unselected?). Now it is ALMOST back to the initial confusing state of all blue (unselected?) curves being affected by the tools. All of the tools in the second and third rows affect all stye curves again. EXCEPT now Reset Curves does not affect any curves.

    I think green and blue should consistently indicate whether or not a style curve is selected to be affected by the tools. And the tools (including Reset Curves) should consistently operate only on curves that are properly displayed as being selected. This is not currently the case. It is confusing as it is now.

    This is how modo/Lightwave work - if nothing is selected then everything is selected. It saves having to do Select All before any global change. If you do make an explicit selection then that limits the effect. Not arguing it isn't potentially confusing, but it does have precedent and logic.

    Well, that's an interesting concept! I've never used either of those programs, so that thought never occurred to me. Without any documentation, I have only trial and error and logic to try to figure out how it is supposed to work. I am looking for consistency in the color cues that are displayed. When you are looking at the interface, and see all visible style curves are blue,  how can you tell whether it means that everything (aka nothing) is selected, or whether something out if view (other side of head) is selected? 

    I am told documentation is being worked on.

    yes Good to hear confirmation of that. Ever since the beta forum threads were reorganized, I've been pretty much lost in finding where things are written down. There used to be a convenient link to the documentation ("in progress" but still empty, when I last was able to find the link). Now I don't know what thread those links are in. I'm sure the new thread organization will eventually make sense to me.

    Is this the one you mean? https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/330101/daz-studio-pro-4-11-highlights

    Yes, that has the links I had lost track of. Thanks, Richard!

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:

    Strand-Based Hair Editor inconsistencies with style curve selection in the Style tab:

    First, what does it mean when none of the style curves are highlighted green? It would seem to mean that none of them are selected for modification with the tools. However, when the Strand-Based Hair Editor is first opened, all of the style curves are blue (not selected?) and yet all the tools in the second and third rows apply to ALL style curves. Even Reset Curves applies to All style curves in this blue state. I would not expect any tools to work on curves that are blue (not selected?) . This seems wrong, if green means selected and blue means not selected.

    Next, use one of the first three tools in the first row to select some style curves. They selected ones turn green (selected?). The tools in the second and third rows, including Reset Curves, apply only to the green (selected?) curves. The blue style curves are unaffected.This seems like the correct differentiation between selected (green) and unselected (blue), and what I would expect to happen. 

    Now finally, use the first tool in the first row to click outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves. All curves turn blue again (unselected?). Now it is ALMOST back to the initial confusing state of all blue (unselected?) curves being affected by the tools. All of the tools in the second and third rows affect all stye curves again. EXCEPT now Reset Curves does not affect any curves.

    I think green and blue should consistently indicate whether or not a style curve is selected to be affected by the tools. And the tools (including Reset Curves) should consistently operate only on curves that are properly displayed as being selected. This is not currently the case. It is confusing as it is now.

    This is how modo/Lightwave work - if nothing is selected then everything is selected. It saves having to do Select All before any global change. If you do make an explicit selection then that limits the effect. Not arguing it isn't potentially confusing, but it does have precedent and logic.

    To be honest, it's going to be confusing to those of us with no experience using Modo or Lightwave, (most of us hobbiests, I'd imagine.)

    Here's a recommendation: Green means editable. Red means not-editable. When first loaded, all hair style curves are green. When using a tool to select some of the style curves, those selected remain green. Those not selected change to a muted red. When clicking outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves, all style curves return to green.

    Just because Modo does it, doesn't mean that's the best way to do it. And  using green and red as described above, shouldn't make life more difficult for those who use Modo and Lightwave, but it will make it much easier for the rest of us. (imo, of course.)

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,275

    Strand-Based Editor Painting Problem: I mentioned once before that sometimes the paint brush will not lay down any paint. It happened again. This is the scenario that produces the problem:

    1. The main DS viewport is set to Front View. I don't know if that is significant.
    2. Select a Stand-Based Hair object in the Scene pane.
    3. Enter the Strand-Based Hair Editor.
    4. I go to the Paint tab.
    5. Create a New Texture Set and make sure it is selected in the Texture Sets list.
    6. Click on the navigation icon that looks like a circle with an arrow inside (sorry, I don't know it's name; it is the bottom one of the five).
    7. Try to paint on the new Texture Set. Nothing happens; no paint is applied
    8. Slide the Brush sliders around to be sure the Value is 100% and Opacity is 100%.
    9. Try to paint on the new Texture Set. Nothing happens;  no paint is applied.
    10. Twirl the mouse wheel to zoom in and out.
    11. Try to paint on the new Texture Set. It works now!
    12. Click that navigation tool circle and arrow icon again.
    13. Try to paint on the new Texture Set again; it is "broken" again. No paint is applied.
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,275
    edited June 2019

    Strand-Based Hair Editor problem:

    The Undo function for Style Curve Tools is inconsistent and seems pretty buggy.

    1. After I move a slider to change a value in any of the Scale, Extend, Curl or Attract tools, Undo restores the Style Curves to their previous state, but the numeric values for Scale, Extend, Curl, Attract and Offset are not "undone". Those numeric values remain unchanged by the Undo function. 
    2. If I move and release the Scale, Extend, Curl or Attract slider several times to tweak the effect of the control, I cannot undo the last tweak. Undo resets the style curves all the way back to when I entered the tool. This was unexpected and led to lost work. As a comparison, the tools in the top row, which select curves or curve points, DO allow me to undo each selection one by one. That is how I would expect the tools in the bottom row to work, too.
    3. When I click the tool icon to select any of the Style Curve Tools, the Undo back arrow in the upper right corner of the editor is highlighted, indicating the availability of an Undo operation to return to a previous state. What is there to undo after just clicking on a tool icon? Clicking the Undo arrow doesn't visually show anything happening. It certainly doesn't go back to the previously selected tool. 
    4. The Style Curve Options tool has a field to set Seg Length. Undo is very intermittent on that tool. Most of the time, Undo doesn't work at all for me on Seg Length changes. When Undo does work on Seg Length, The Seg Length numeric value does not get restored to the previous state, either. 
    Post edited by barbult on
  • emotionaldreams2emotionaldreams2 Posts: 141
    edited June 2019
    L'Adair said:
    emotionaldreams2 said:

    install manger does not give latest studio. it always says 4.10 not latest

    4.10 is the latest released version. If you want to use the beta, you'll have to purchase it, just like any other free content. Once it's in your Product Library, the beta will be available in DIM, but you have to enable DIM to show you the files:

    1. Open DIM and log on.
    2. Click on the Download Filters button on the Ready to Download tab. (Alternately, you can also click on the gear icon in the upper right corner of DIM.)
    3. With the Downloads tab selected, scroll down to the bottom of the Show list and click in the checkbox for Public Build.
    4. Once the checkmark shows up in the box for Public Build, click on the green Accept button.

     The Public Build files should now show up on the Ready to Download tab.

     

    L'Adair said:
    emotionaldreams2 said:

    install manger does not give latest studio. it always says 4.10 not latest

    4.10 is the latest released version. If you want to use the beta, you'll have to purchase it, just like any other free content. Once it's in your Product Library, the beta will be available in DIM, but you have to enable DIM to show you the files:

    1. Open DIM and log on.
    2. Click on the Download Filters button on the Ready to Download tab. (Alternately, you can also click on the gear icon in the upper right corner of DIM.)
    3. With the Downloads tab selected, scroll down to the bottom of the Show list and click in the checkbox for Public Build.
    4. Once the checkmark shows up in the box for Public Build, click on the green Accept button.

     The Public Build files should now show up on the Ready to Download tab.

    i know  that. it still only shows 4.10  when its time to get it 

    Post edited by emotionaldreams2 on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    emotionaldreams2 said:
    i know  that. it still only shows 4.10  when its time to get it 

    This is what my DIM looks like:

    Public Build Beta Files Ready To Download In Dim

    The files other than the main beta are for premium, (not-free,) products. As you can see, the files clearly show as 4.11 and Public Build is highlighted.

    (For anyone where this is their first download of the beta, the files will be under Products, not Product Updates.)

    I also checked the options to show Mac 32-bit and 64-bit, as well as Win 32-bit, just to see what would be displayed. The beta file shows up as 4.11 for all versions.

    I think it would be helpful in troubleshooting the issue if you were to upload a screenshot of your DIM with Ready to Download the active tab.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,159
    L'Adair said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:

    Strand-Based Hair Editor inconsistencies with style curve selection in the Style tab:

    First, what does it mean when none of the style curves are highlighted green? It would seem to mean that none of them are selected for modification with the tools. However, when the Strand-Based Hair Editor is first opened, all of the style curves are blue (not selected?) and yet all the tools in the second and third rows apply to ALL style curves. Even Reset Curves applies to All style curves in this blue state. I would not expect any tools to work on curves that are blue (not selected?) . This seems wrong, if green means selected and blue means not selected.

    Next, use one of the first three tools in the first row to select some style curves. They selected ones turn green (selected?). The tools in the second and third rows, including Reset Curves, apply only to the green (selected?) curves. The blue style curves are unaffected.This seems like the correct differentiation between selected (green) and unselected (blue), and what I would expect to happen. 

    Now finally, use the first tool in the first row to click outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves. All curves turn blue again (unselected?). Now it is ALMOST back to the initial confusing state of all blue (unselected?) curves being affected by the tools. All of the tools in the second and third rows affect all stye curves again. EXCEPT now Reset Curves does not affect any curves.

    I think green and blue should consistently indicate whether or not a style curve is selected to be affected by the tools. And the tools (including Reset Curves) should consistently operate only on curves that are properly displayed as being selected. This is not currently the case. It is confusing as it is now.

    This is how modo/Lightwave work - if nothing is selected then everything is selected. It saves having to do Select All before any global change. If you do make an explicit selection then that limits the effect. Not arguing it isn't potentially confusing, but it does have precedent and logic.

    To be honest, it's going to be confusing to those of us with no experience using Modo or Lightwave, (most of us hobbiests, I'd imagine.)

    Here's a recommendation: Green means editable. Red means not-editable. When first loaded, all hair style curves are green. When using a tool to select some of the style curves, those selected remain green. Those not selected change to a muted red. When clicking outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves, all style curves return to green.

    Just because Modo does it, doesn't mean that's the best way to do it. And  using green and red as described above, shouldn't make life more difficult for those who use Modo and Lightwave, but it will make it much easier for the rest of us. (imo, of course.)

    It's not the only plce DS does this, though - frame and aim, for example, will use all in the scene if nothing specific is selected.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,275

    I have a really basic question about the Strand-Based Hair Editor: What are the units for the numeric values? I suspect that it is a mix of centimeters and millimeters. Would it be possible to modify the interface to indicate what those units are?

    Clarification would be greatly appreciated! The numeric values without units are confusing. For example, the Scale and Extend tools seem to work in centimeters, but the Comb tool seems to use millimeters for the comb Radius, and I can't figure out what units the Offset uses. Do things like the Attract amount (-1 to 1) even have units, or is it really like a percentage (-100% to 100%) or WHAT? 

  • a0000100sa0000100s Posts: 13
    edited April 2021

    DEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Post edited by a0000100s on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    Richard Haseltine said:
    L'Adair said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:

    Strand-Based Hair Editor inconsistencies with style curve selection in the Style tab:

    First, what does it mean when none of the style curves are highlighted green? It would seem to mean that none of them are selected for modification with the tools. However, when the Strand-Based Hair Editor is first opened, all of the style curves are blue (not selected?) and yet all the tools in the second and third rows apply to ALL style curves. Even Reset Curves applies to All style curves in this blue state. I would not expect any tools to work on curves that are blue (not selected?) . This seems wrong, if green means selected and blue means not selected.

    Next, use one of the first three tools in the first row to select some style curves. They selected ones turn green (selected?). The tools in the second and third rows, including Reset Curves, apply only to the green (selected?) curves. The blue style curves are unaffected.This seems like the correct differentiation between selected (green) and unselected (blue), and what I would expect to happen. 

    Now finally, use the first tool in the first row to click outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves. All curves turn blue again (unselected?). Now it is ALMOST back to the initial confusing state of all blue (unselected?) curves being affected by the tools. All of the tools in the second and third rows affect all stye curves again. EXCEPT now Reset Curves does not affect any curves.

    I think green and blue should consistently indicate whether or not a style curve is selected to be affected by the tools. And the tools (including Reset Curves) should consistently operate only on curves that are properly displayed as being selected. This is not currently the case. It is confusing as it is now.

    This is how modo/Lightwave work - if nothing is selected then everything is selected. It saves having to do Select All before any global change. If you do make an explicit selection then that limits the effect. Not arguing it isn't potentially confusing, but it does have precedent and logic.

    To be honest, it's going to be confusing to those of us with no experience using Modo or Lightwave, (most of us hobbiests, I'd imagine.)

    Here's a recommendation: Green means editable. Red means not-editable. When first loaded, all hair style curves are green. When using a tool to select some of the style curves, those selected remain green. Those not selected change to a muted red. When clicking outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves, all style curves return to green.

    Just because Modo does it, doesn't mean that's the best way to do it. And  using green and red as described above, shouldn't make life more difficult for those who use Modo and Lightwave, but it will make it much easier for the rest of us. (imo, of course.)

    It's not the only plce DS does this, though - frame and aim, for example, will use all in the scene if nothing specific is selected.

    I only suggested a color change, not that the things work any differently. I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise.

    If blue style curves can be edited if nothing is selected, but can't be edited when some of the style curves are selected, it wil be confusing to some of us. So I was suggesting to not use the blue at all. Instead, if a style curve is green it can be edited and if it is red it cannot.

    In my scenario, you would only see the red when some of the curves are explicitly selected. And you'd always see green on the style curves that could be edited.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,159
    L'Adair said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    L'Adair said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:

    Strand-Based Hair Editor inconsistencies with style curve selection in the Style tab:

    First, what does it mean when none of the style curves are highlighted green? It would seem to mean that none of them are selected for modification with the tools. However, when the Strand-Based Hair Editor is first opened, all of the style curves are blue (not selected?) and yet all the tools in the second and third rows apply to ALL style curves. Even Reset Curves applies to All style curves in this blue state. I would not expect any tools to work on curves that are blue (not selected?) . This seems wrong, if green means selected and blue means not selected.

    Next, use one of the first three tools in the first row to select some style curves. They selected ones turn green (selected?). The tools in the second and third rows, including Reset Curves, apply only to the green (selected?) curves. The blue style curves are unaffected.This seems like the correct differentiation between selected (green) and unselected (blue), and what I would expect to happen. 

    Now finally, use the first tool in the first row to click outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves. All curves turn blue again (unselected?). Now it is ALMOST back to the initial confusing state of all blue (unselected?) curves being affected by the tools. All of the tools in the second and third rows affect all stye curves again. EXCEPT now Reset Curves does not affect any curves.

    I think green and blue should consistently indicate whether or not a style curve is selected to be affected by the tools. And the tools (including Reset Curves) should consistently operate only on curves that are properly displayed as being selected. This is not currently the case. It is confusing as it is now.

    This is how modo/Lightwave work - if nothing is selected then everything is selected. It saves having to do Select All before any global change. If you do make an explicit selection then that limits the effect. Not arguing it isn't potentially confusing, but it does have precedent and logic.

    To be honest, it's going to be confusing to those of us with no experience using Modo or Lightwave, (most of us hobbiests, I'd imagine.)

    Here's a recommendation: Green means editable. Red means not-editable. When first loaded, all hair style curves are green. When using a tool to select some of the style curves, those selected remain green. Those not selected change to a muted red. When clicking outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves, all style curves return to green.

    Just because Modo does it, doesn't mean that's the best way to do it. And  using green and red as described above, shouldn't make life more difficult for those who use Modo and Lightwave, but it will make it much easier for the rest of us. (imo, of course.)

    It's not the only plce DS does this, though - frame and aim, for example, will use all in the scene if nothing specific is selected.

    I only suggested a color change, not that the things work any differently. I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise.

    If blue style curves can be edited if nothing is selected, but can't be edited when some of the style curves are selected, it wil be confusing to some of us. So I was suggesting to not use the blue at all. Instead, if a style curve is green it can be edited and if it is red it cannot.

    In my scenario, you would only see the red when some of the curves are explicitly selected. And you'd always see green on the style curves that could be edited.

    You could featrue request that, though at this fairly late stage in the development I would not expect it this time round even if Daz agreed.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    Richard Haseltine said:
    L'Adair said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    L'Adair said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    barbult said:

    Strand-Based Hair Editor inconsistencies with style curve selection in the Style tab:

    First, what does it mean when none of the style curves are highlighted green? It would seem to mean that none of them are selected for modification with the tools. However, when the Strand-Based Hair Editor is first opened, all of the style curves are blue (not selected?) and yet all the tools in the second and third rows apply to ALL style curves. Even Reset Curves applies to All style curves in this blue state. I would not expect any tools to work on curves that are blue (not selected?) . This seems wrong, if green means selected and blue means not selected.

    Next, use one of the first three tools in the first row to select some style curves. They selected ones turn green (selected?). The tools in the second and third rows, including Reset Curves, apply only to the green (selected?) curves. The blue style curves are unaffected.This seems like the correct differentiation between selected (green) and unselected (blue), and what I would expect to happen. 

    Now finally, use the first tool in the first row to click outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves. All curves turn blue again (unselected?). Now it is ALMOST back to the initial confusing state of all blue (unselected?) curves being affected by the tools. All of the tools in the second and third rows affect all stye curves again. EXCEPT now Reset Curves does not affect any curves.

    I think green and blue should consistently indicate whether or not a style curve is selected to be affected by the tools. And the tools (including Reset Curves) should consistently operate only on curves that are properly displayed as being selected. This is not currently the case. It is confusing as it is now.

    This is how modo/Lightwave work - if nothing is selected then everything is selected. It saves having to do Select All before any global change. If you do make an explicit selection then that limits the effect. Not arguing it isn't potentially confusing, but it does have precedent and logic.

    To be honest, it's going to be confusing to those of us with no experience using Modo or Lightwave, (most of us hobbiests, I'd imagine.)

    Here's a recommendation: Green means editable. Red means not-editable. When first loaded, all hair style curves are green. When using a tool to select some of the style curves, those selected remain green. Those not selected change to a muted red. When clicking outside the style curve area to unselect the previously selected style curves, all style curves return to green.

    Just because Modo does it, doesn't mean that's the best way to do it. And  using green and red as described above, shouldn't make life more difficult for those who use Modo and Lightwave, but it will make it much easier for the rest of us. (imo, of course.)

    It's not the only plce DS does this, though - frame and aim, for example, will use all in the scene if nothing specific is selected.

    I only suggested a color change, not that the things work any differently. I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise.

    If blue style curves can be edited if nothing is selected, but can't be edited when some of the style curves are selected, it wil be confusing to some of us. So I was suggesting to not use the blue at all. Instead, if a style curve is green it can be edited and if it is red it cannot.

    In my scenario, you would only see the red when some of the curves are explicitly selected. And you'd always see green on the style curves that could be edited.

    You could featrue request that, though at this fairly late stage in the development I would not expect it this time round even if Daz agreed.

    Done. Ticket # 300722.

  • Acudia4151Acudia4151 Posts: 68

    i seem to not be getting hair just the guide hairs here's my iray render and yes i put on the iray shader for the hair.

     

    Capture.PNG
    646 x 680 - 170K
  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,707
    barbult said:

    The Undo function for Style Curve Tools is inconsistent and seems pretty buggy.

    Please may you let us know if those issues are fixed in the 4.11 general release ?

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,275
    Padone said:
    barbult said:

    The Undo function for Style Curve Tools is inconsistent and seems pretty buggy.

    Please may you let us know if those issues are fixed in the 4.11 general release ?

    I haven't installed the General Release yet. I would be surprised to see it fixed, already, though. There is nothing in the Change Log to indicate any changes beyond 4.11.0.383. I assumed the General Release was identical to 4.11.0.383.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,159
    Acudia3D said:

    i seem to not be getting hair just the guide hairs here's my iray render and yes i put on the iray shader for the hair.

    That's the nVidia Iray preview mode, not a full render. Depending on your options in the Draw Settings pane that may give different results.

  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,707
    barbult said:

    I haven't installed the General Release yet. I would be surprised to see it fixed, already, though.

    Well the denoiser and the dforce strand-based hair are a great step forward anyway, though old cards are no more supported by iray .. I guess they have time to make it more stable for the next release. Meanwhile we can enjoy the new features.

  • Serefina_MoonSerefina_Moon Posts: 106

    Serching for how to's,... and yeah, I'm prolly just missing something obvious, but....

    Offline Installer?
    I don't have any of my artwork PC's connected to the outside world, so I'm looking for the usual full sized download to try the public beta after seeing the youtube video announceing the stand based hair.

    All I see are the links to the online installers,.... :(

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 11,766

    Betas can only be downloaded and installed with DIM as they need to be installed with specific parameters.

  • Acudia4151Acudia4151 Posts: 68

    that was it ,thank you Richard

     

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