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Interesting article on piracy from Stardock's CEO, Brad Wardell
http://www.stardock.com/media/Mailers/stardock_magazine/02february2012/index.html
Basically it says people who steal wouldn't ever pay for it so the best strategy is to focus on the real market, paying customers.
I have the greatest respect for the full-time content creators really. Personally, I always try to avoid working from home and am more productive in a dedicated office environment.
Small observation: Probably no surprise that many if not all creators here are among those PAs I buy from. Quality just shows and allows for the full-time content creator business then.
I would not take Brad Wardell's statements as anything but reactionary entertainment. Didn't he tell the judge in his sex assault charge that as CEO he had the right to be as intolerant or sexually inappropriate as he wanted to his employees?
Probably not true for all full-time PAs (Silver said she had others to support), but my non-work life is very easy and I have no kids. I have total respect for anyone able to raise them, but I know I'm not one of those people. Don't feel bad that you're tired when you're managing something so hard as new twins!
Also - people who don't do this tend to think good texturing is easy, and it's not, not at all.
Good texturing is easy for me...buy fabricator, buy pretty much all of the decent texture packs as well as all the shaders you can afford and learn to apply as needed. See easy as pie ;)
Truly, if you're someone that can make good texture sets - especially if it's something you enjoy doing - I'd love to see your stuff in the store.
Unless it's in the PC any clothing item is going to have to basically make an idea for a scene pop into my head before it hits my cart these days. The same with most characters, unless the skin texture is either amazing or useful for something more exotic that the typical pasty white supermodel.
Hair I tend to buy as I need it. If I don't already have a hair that works for my vision of the character I'll go looking through the store and see if anything jumps out at me but most if it doesn't really. Someone looking for another niche to fill that can make decent hair, we need more mens hair styles. Not just the long hair or short hair that can work for both sexes but actual mens hair, especially balding styles. I have hopes that we'll start seeing some LAMH or Garibaldi hair presets showing up.
Piracy sucks! I feel for you guys. I hope to eventually sale some things here on Daz but I am still learning.
However I am wondering of way to fight piracy, now that I have read this. Maybe Daz can setup a server side authentication algorithm which talks to a client side, (our Daz Studio apps or other render apps registered with Daz) and the content sold through Daz's stored also has to be validated with Daz's server. So they only way the content can be used is via a client that is registered with Daz's server. If the content is applied to a client app which is not registered with Daz's server, the content becomes useless and will not apply to the model or scene.
So if a pirate takes your work, which first of all gets registered with Daz's server before it gets put on the content market, then when some thief downloads it to use it wont work because three things have to be true. The client apps has shake hands with server for validation and each item applied to the scene has to do the same thing. There is a validation between the user and product to validate a purchase and validation between server to client and server to content/client.
All these validation, checks flags and settings can be setup on a relational database such as SQL Server or Oracle. This would provide a very secure environment preventing hacks and theft. It would be seamless communication via a secure internet connection.
The only problem is, I am not sure, just how much overhead by implementing such a system would be required by adding to the price of merchant content to cover the costs of upkeep and profitability. Or if the costs were to remain the same for the benefit of the consumer at the expense of taking more from the merchant per sale. ugh! Not an easy answer.
The problem is, if the protection becomes too cumbersome for an actual customer then it is probably the best way to drive someone into piracy, even someone who didn't think about this before. E.g. when suddenly "offline games" want to phone home and won't work without it - I have no understanding for this. Protection is fine in appropriate margins, but if I have to jump through a lot of hoops to get the product working I bought ...
Piracy sucks! I feel for you guys. I hope to eventually sale some things here on Daz but I am still learning.
However I am wondering of way to fight piracy, now that I have read this. Maybe Daz can setup a server side authentication algorithm which talks to a client side, (our Daz Studio apps or other render apps registered with Daz) and the content sold through Daz's stored also has to be validated with Daz's server. So they only way the content can be used is via a client that is registered with Daz's server. If the content is applied to a client app which is not registered with Daz's server, the content becomes useless and will not apply to the model or scene.
So if a pirate takes your work, which first of all gets registered with Daz's server before it gets put on the content market, then when some thief downloads it to use it wont work because three things have to be true. The client apps has shake hands with server for validation and each item applied to the scene has to do the same thing. There is a validation between the user and product to validate a purchase and validation between server to client and server to content/client.
All these validation, checks flags and settings can be setup on a relational database such as SQL Server or Oracle. This would provide a very secure environment preventing hacks and theft. It would be seamless communication via a secure internet connection.
The only problem is, I am not sure, just how much overhead by implementing such a system would be required by adding to the price of merchant content to cover the costs of upkeep and profitability. Or if the costs were to remain the same for the benefit of the consumer at the expense of taking more from the merchant per sale. ugh! Not an easy answer.
That requires an always on connection to even use your 3D program. There are a lot of people here that have limited internet connectivity or bandwidth caps. They would scream if you tried to implement a system that connected to the net for every piece of content you put into a scene. I'd think that might be a pretty big performance hit.
Also that would really only work with a new version of the software. It's kind of hard to roll out a change to DS 3 (which a lot of people still use) and make people download and apply it. So if that's the case does that mean that this protected content will only work in this new version of DS? How about Poser?
You'd be forcing people to either upgrade their software or go elsewhere for content.
Good texturing is easy for me...buy fabricator, buy pretty much all of the decent texture packs as well as all the shaders you can afford and learn to apply as needed. See easy as pie ;)
Those are material based shaders that aren't based on a specific UV map. I think Sickle is referring to texturing onto specific UVs.
Those are material based shaders that aren't based on a specific UV map. I think Sickle is referring to texturing onto specific UVs.
Sorry, I was trying to make a joke.
I agree that actually making the textures or shaders is a lot harder than people think, that's why I'm much more likely to buy new textures or shaders than I am any other kind of content.
Those are material based shaders that aren't based on a specific UV map. I think Sickle is referring to texturing onto specific UVs.
Sorry, I was trying to make a joke.
I agree that actually making the textures or shaders is a lot harder than people think, that's why I'm much more likely to buy new textures or shaders than I am any other kind of content.
I had a feeling you were- just can't be sure sometimes. lol :P
UV texturing was completely eluding me for the longest time. I dropped some cash on Sveva's tutorials @ Rendo, her texturing tutorials being some of them. They're wonderful and easy to understand.
I have plans to eventually start trying freebies and then moving my way up. It'll probably be a long and bumpy road, but damnit I'm determined. lol
That requires an always on connection to even use your 3D program. There are a lot of people here that have limited internet connectivity or bandwidth caps. They would scream if you tried to implement a system that connected to the net for every piece of content you put into a scene. I'd think that might be a pretty big performance hit.
Also that would really only work with a new version of the software. It's kind of hard to roll out a change to DS 3 (which a lot of people still use) and make people download and apply it. So if that's the case does that mean that this protected content will only work in this new version of DS? How about Poser?
You'd be forcing people to either upgrade their software or go elsewhere for content.
I leave my work machine offline. If online forever becomes the paradigm I won't be the only one who can't do their job any more.
Besides, drm is not a good solution. You're in a permanent arms race with the crackers from then on, and all you can do is delay them on a given item, not stop them.
Just echoing a lot of what's been said, especially re: needing to commit time and also, the arms race with DRM cracking. People will crack DRM for the sheer challenge of doing it -- and will actually compete against each other to see who can do it first.
DRM penalises legitimate paying customers. Pirates will crack it in about five minutes, so if your intention is to stop pirates you're wasting your time.
I want to thank all PA that came here to talk and share their stories (ups and downs during their product sales). I support Daz Studios and its creators, please don't ever force people to use DIM or DRM, Keep it simple and rightfully honest Daz Studios. Here are some thoughts on Piracy: People pirate products because they are low income, really want a product, hate DRM, do not support the company, want to try before they buy, etc. But like someone said "There are more honestly good people than crooks". here are my two pennies worth.
Seems to me that ownership is being taken away slowly and instead is being replaced with a short term loan option. It's all being locked in to specific hardware, tablets, phones etc. The days of having your own archived material whether it be books, CD's DVD's are fading fast.
That's why I detest the whole cloud idea. Notice how they make these intrusive things sound soft and fluffy- 'cookie', 'cloud'.
I definitely qualify as low income -- I'm not even to 100% of the poverty line yet this year in income thanks to being stuck in a very long dev cycle process on some things slowly beginning to see the light of day at long last, so I have less sympathy than I might for the 'low income' reasoning; in this economy, most of us are right there, too. While many of the people who have spoken up here are making much bigger money, it needs to be noted that that is not often the typical vendor experience in this market (here, or on other sites).
The really sad thing is, I see at least 10 illegal downloads for every one sale at a minimum, and usually considerably more than that... so the more good people thing, well. I'm hoping it will eventually become true! :) That said, my main objection to DRM is that it tends to introduce more bugs that it will ever solve problems, so I don't see an upside to using it even in those circumstances unless someone comes up with a genuinely brilliant solution that doesn't have those issues.
People have to remember there are 500+ PAs here at DAZ, all the way from full time top seller down to part-time hobbiest with a product or two. Just like any industry, there's a top 10% who make the lion share of products and revenues. Most can't make a living at this, some can. You need talent, technique, creativity, knowledge, perseverance, drive, ambition, marketing, discipline and good old fashion hard work.
...and even with all of that, there are no guarantees. (Which is the short form of saying there's no formula of qualities that will guarantee you aren't facing real risks.)
For instance, many vendors will want to do something genuinely new tech-wise -- but that means spending a lot of time in trial and error. These products can swallow up a lot of time, and it's time you may never actually get compensated for investing. I'm personally finally seeing one of these cycles pay off pretty well, but I'm still making up for that time investment and will be for some time, which amounted to almost a full year with no releases while it was all going through extensive tire-kicking. That kind of risk is not something people mention often, but it takes a lot of planning and a lot of backbone to go there. Usually, it will pay off -- but it's a long view with a lot of lean time to be considered. (DZfire mentions this as well; you have to plan for it well in advance if you can!)
The good thing about this is that the current marketplaces are willing to take the risk to gamble on this as well because it usually pays off for them. That's a second layer of potential trouble to consider when making your plans in most cases that we're very lucky to avoid most of the time. It tends to depend on just how niche the product is. You see a great response to things like the alternate render solutions and various plugins that involve new tech more than you would making, say, the very best animated virtual turnip twiddler on the market.
It's important to commit time to innovation and learning on top of your regular output, definitely. Learning new things has always paid off well for me. The week I spent figuring out figure setup paid HUGE dividends in subsequent ability to do pose-controlled rigs with lots of bones, for instance. Five extra bones for a sleeve or mane will never look like a big job to me again after the 800 bones in the Captain's Daughter from the Articles of Punishment set!
Right now forum chat has nudged me in the direction of learning how to do ERC controllers for series of morphs. I think it will prove interesting. :-) The important thing for anyone is not to get tunnel vision and just keep making the same thing over and over; that way lies burnout.
Absolutely. :)
And its funny... when I read this I realized that every single person I've offered to mentor in this field has lost interest as soon as they realize its real work.
None of the programs I use have a "make art that makes me money" button. Alas!
I think this is the type of work that you either love, or hate. And even when you love it, there are times when you're seriously considering the ease of flipping burgers at a fast food place because its much easier than the headache you're going through on this project or that.
The passion is what keeps me here.
~Bluebird
Yes you have to love otherwise your inspiration and drive will die in a flash, rsulting in average products, and low sales. You have to up your game every single time, and sometimes that can be a tall order.
Thats what actually keeps me going....I love the challenge of trying to "up the game" with each new release.
RAwn
As Rawn said, always up the game. To quote a recent movie, "Movement is life"
I definitely qualify as low income -- I'm not even to 100% of the poverty line yet this year in income thanks to being stuck in a very long dev cycle process on some things slowly beginning to see the light of day at long last, so I have less sympathy than I might for the 'low income' reasoning; in this economy, most of us are right there, too. While many of the people who have spoken up here are making much bigger money, it needs to be noted that that is not often the typical vendor experience in this market (here, or on other sites).
The really sad thing is, I see at least 10 illegal downloads for every one sale at a minimum, and usually considerably more than that... so the more good people thing, well. I'm hoping it will eventually become true! :) That said, my main objection to DRM is that it tends to introduce more bugs that it will ever solve problems, so I don't see an upside to using it even in those circumstances unless someone comes up with a genuinely brilliant solution that doesn't have those issues.
I confirm, I'm a new content creator with only 4 products, and I was looking for feedback or images made with my products : I found illegal content instead!!!
Having a rapid look at the numbers of downloads when they were displayed, I also saw at least 10 to 30 illegal downloads for one sale - and this with a simple search, not watching all the sites, so, there probably are many things I probably did not see.
It made me really sad, I expected this would happen, but not in such a big volume. Now I try not to think about it.
My worry is that the upcoming generation has a culture of piracy. When I speak with teenagers, it is normal for them to have everything free on the web. Downloadable? Then free! They do not even have the consciousness that this is robbery.
So when these young people will become the next DAZ users, will there remain enough honest people to go on with creating content? This I don't know....
I'm very interesting in this topic, since one of my goal is to become a full time content creator. I'll have a deeper look at it as soon as possible.
Yes, you can make a living, just like I do, fulltime since 2006.
(No, I don't have a job, and neither to I want one... ;) )
However, it takes dedication and effort to make it work, like with everything else in life. What you put in, is what you get out.
I never make any income claims, but with the right kind of products, (lots of them too), and the right kind of dedication & persistance--you can make a living.
If you take a look at any successful vendor here at DAZ, they all have a unique style, they do what they are good at and they all have not one, but tons of products. So, it's an ongoing journey.
Just like everything else in life... ;)
Actually, I've made a step by step guide for this, and it's called 3D Model Master. You can find it here at DAZ:
http://www.daz3d.com/3d-model-master
Hi! Sorry for my English, it´s not perfect.!! :-)
Good thread anyway, hmm. I have been using Daz programs since the beginning and have a huge library. A couple of 100.000 pieces todday. I have also used other programs like Maya (even on the Amiga computer), Cinema Vue bla bla bla...
Making 3D for 25 years.
I have tried to be creative in my way to use 3D in many ways. It´s not possible to do only one thing in order to make money.
The problem with Daz products has been the instability and low knowledge how to develop the products in right way.
I have used 3D in:
Scenography (introduced 3D in schools) for theather and filmmaking.
Working environment planning ( how to make a good working environment)
Interior design
Making pictures for newspapers, books commercials.
Selling pictures (www.mostphotos.se)
3D models
Animations for music videos, working environment.
Yes you can live on this but you need to make a lot of marketing and be creative towards the customers.
You can make your own stories and sell with your animations and pictures of cource.
But only making 3d models and sell on Daz or renderosity is not enough for living.
However the freedom to be anywhere in the world and work with your computer is great!!!
Take care folks!!!
Thanks to everyone here for this interesting and enlightening conversation. I have been digging for information like this for some time and happily stumbled onto this thread. As someone who has been successfully self-employed (freelance) for decades in a parallel creative field, and has managed to support a family, pay for two college educations and live comfortably, I agree wholeheartedly with many of the observations stated previously about working for yourself. Hard work, dedication, commitment, honing your skills through practice and always working to improve and innovate as the market and technology advances are all key to being successful.
Personally, I am interested in getting into this particular discipline and marketplace because I have always loved dabbling in 3D design and digital art creation of almost any kind. The DAZ marketplace (and I suppose others like Renderosity, although I am less familiar) seems to provide a unique and deep "hobbyist to professional" customer base to pitch 3D tools and products to. I only want to do this because I really enjoy the pure process of creating, and that is primary for me. After spending many years doing a different kind of "creative" work that became SO commercial and corporate it was absolutely mind-numbing, making money doing 3D would be nice, but it is definitely secondary. I am blissfully happy just learning and creating. And being inspired by people like you.
Thanks again!
It's probably an re-iteration of what she has already said, but SickleYield has recently posted this: http://fav.me/d6qt6sg over on devaintART.
Great thread!
For many years I made Halloween masks as a year-round, full time job and I have recently moved into dealing in digital art.
I can only reiterate what everyone else here has already said in one way or another. You can make a living doing this if:
1) You love what you're doing and would be doing it anyway, even if you weren't getting paid
2) You're prepared to work long and hard hours
3) You do your due diligence on all your projects: dot the T's and cross the I's :)
And there is a lot more to it than just creating the 3d pieces. So much is market research and accounting. Know your audience. Find voids in the market that you can fill. Do it better than everybody else (at least in your own mind). And know how to value your own work. When I was selling masks, so many of the other independent mask makers would make a new piece and put it up for sale for $200-$300 without any thought to why they were charging that. They'd sell a few, sometimes quite a few. But I did the math and calculated all the overhead and man hours, and realized I could produce the same thing for $50-$60 at retail. And I sold a ton, almost more than I could make by myself, some months.
So talent and ambition are drive are a huge, huge part, but you also have to be smart and aware that you're not working in a vacuum. As well, there is a component of luck involved. Perhaps most importantly, you have to keep plugging away!