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224 S 200 W, Suite #250
Salt Lake City, UT 84101
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© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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Yes it is possible. The advice I would have added has already been mentioned in this thread.
I do this full time but went part time for over a year in order to get my footing and ramp up.
The best sellers are the good quality products. If you put in the time and the effort and are not afraid of grinding work and looooong, intense hours then it might be for you.
.. And after that, the second it is released and you think you can relax, someone will complain about something you've done. Thats when you know you've arrived. :D
Good luck and best wishes!
~Bluebird
p.s. I am kidding about that last part. Sort of.
Greetings,
Heh. So it's like any other online content production business. Lots of hard work, and getting good at what you do. Building a fan base, a back catalog, and keeping a weather eye out for the bad people. Supporting folks who use the product, while figuring out what else the market's looking for, releasing your products, and hoping it succeeds while moving on to the next project, with the ever-present awareness that you're in a 'hits-based' business. There's also probably the occasional buy-out which is likely a nice boost in one-time income, weighed against not increasing the back catalog's cushioning effect.
It's almost exactly like trying to make a living as a 'micro-ISV' (one person software shop), or a self-published author... Anything where you're working for yourself, producing something digital for other people to enjoy, and living off of sales of that product is going to end up being equally hard, require large amounts of discipline and time, and involve supporting end-users.
...and in all of them, it's best to test the waters with a few free or low-cost products, learning not only the market, but how committed you are to it and how good at it you already are, before trying to go whole-hog.
-- Morgan
Not gonna lie, it's actually much more like "what do I want to make that people will still buy?" or "what do I think would be awesome? Will people buy that?" rather than "what does the market want?" The market likes my products when they're of the best quality, and I don't do my best work making things I don't like. Of my products I've done, only one that I really adored making has done badly, and that was because it was my very first at DAZ.
I don't do many buyouts, and it's not just because of the cushioning effect (although I quite like my catalog sales). Unless you do 100% buyouts, you'll be competing against your own product in every sale from then on, because it will be more heavily promoted and more deeply discounted than PA items are.
What everyone else said lol
I do this full time. Its not my only source of income, however, as my SO works as well.
That said, it also took 10 yrs to get to a point where I could feasibly equate this to a regular job's pay. To be fair, I only did this part time for a long while, however, which accounts for that somewhat. Nowadays, I treat it more full time, so its pretty equivalent.
You can definitely make it work... but I would not suggest replacing a cushy job with it for certain. It can be very unpredictable.... and it can take awhile to become established. That's not including the time spent to learn it, and the money spent on software and other resources (there is a lot of overhead to it) Me, I kind of ended up doing it very accidentally.... dabbling at the beginning, getting hooked, and somewhere along the line, it became my job lol
I definitely don't want to dissuade anyone.... but, it has its ups and downs, and anyone wanting to break into it should definitely know what they're getting into.
Funny, I was thinking of making my own stuff to sell. I don't know if anyone would buy my products though. Maybe I'll give away stuff for free or for a really low price. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
I have brought methods up many times, only to be shouted down every time. There are methods. Some more intrusive than others.
Kendall
I googled my first product here at Daz last night and sure enough, there it was on a torrent site. I felt disheartened but didn't know what to do about it. I'm glad this thread was made. I guess I'll just suck it up if that's what other people do.
I really respect those of you who have made this a living! I'm way too easily distracted to work on something 24/7. Definitely not quitting the day job. :p
It is always a good idea to contact DAZ with the information about the violation/copyright infringement. . They'll put the attack dogs on it if they know about it.
There is an email you can send the offending link to, as a vendor at DAZ --- abuse.daz3d.com You can also send the websites a DMCA for your own stuff (and actually, thats the recommended action, as people who do so can often get it down quicker than third parties)
Other than that, its sadly something that plagues content creators. I try not to focus on it too much. If I find something, naturally, I report it and deal with it... but I don't actively look for it. I would rather focus on making new stuff. Likely, the ones that do that sort of thing wouldn't be paying anyway.
Saying that it gets really depressing when you get freebies pirated that could come to our website and download for free anyway.
Saying that it gets really depressing when you get freebies pirated that could come to our website and download for free anyway.
And even worse when you find them on a torrent as add-ons for products that have been pirated, and using your name as well, when you are only known as a freebie provider.
This is my full time job and only source of income and I am supporting 2 other people on it so it IS possible.
Its ALOT of hours spent in front of the PC. I started this full time from the start and it was hard and endless hours spent creating products to get the income needed each month. I eventually worked so much the first 2 years I burnt myself out and quit for a good 2 years before coming back so thats something to watch out for as well, cause with the hours you need to put in its really easy to do if your depending on the income. If i could go back I would have started part time and eventually moved to full time but I didnt have that luxury really. Now 2 years later I can work less to maintain my income and its much more balanced. I dont think I would suggest anyone jump right into this being a full time job because its so touch and go and definitely takes some work to get there.
Definitely seconding the 'it is a lot more hours than you ever imagine it's going to be'. I wake up, I start working... I sometimes notice when it gets dark. Sometimes I notice it get light again, too, and that's been more often than not lately.
That in itself is complicated by all the issues surrounding self-employment as well, and they're something a lot of folks accustomed to traditional work have little experience with. While a lot of people focus on things like less commute, being able to work in sweats and no need to budget for suits, budgeting for time is an enormous consideration. You have to have a lot of willpower and ability to motivate yourself to get up, get working, and avoid distractions. This gets complicated quickly by a lot of folks who simply don't understand that 'working from home' doesn't mean the same thing as 'home and has a ton of free time'. ;) One of the first things you need to learn how to do is say 'no', and to say it often -- even to yourself, because some ideas can be very tempting. Willpower is more necessary than a lot of people think. (I had wanted to go to the beach this morning. I'm tweaking shaders instead because I wasn't happy with some results and I'm typing between test renders, for instance. ;) )
You also need to develop a skin so thick you could be hunted for sturdy boot leather, and that's no joke. Criticism is going to happen. Sometimes it's going to be sane and reasonable and it will help you immeasurably, and sometimes it's completely bonkers in ways that make you wish there was a way to kick people in the shins over the internet until you stop wanting to bang your head off the desk. (Also required: strong desk, preferably padded.)
Can you make a living? Yes. Can you make a good living? Yes. Is it a hobby anymore? No, it's business.
Now to the meat of it. It is not a get rich quick business, you will need to commit about five years extra full time for the venture. So, don't quit your job yet. I sat down and made up a business plan and sunk $11k of savings for the first two years. You are looking at creating a good detailed item every month and these items are what the customers want, not you. This is to get your catalog built up, you'll need it later. Be prepared for a lot of beans and catsup soup and tighten your belt. Remember, it's no longer a hobby but a business. If you treat it as a hobby, you'll continue spending more money then making. Find your niche and get good at it. Throw out a few freebies to test the waters and watch the numbers. Search for renders of those using them, this will give you an idea of if your items are being used. Remember, people will download your freebies all day long and not use it. A good item will be used right away. Try not to fixate on the warez sites, it's a waste of time and you'll just get old fast. There are a lot more honest customers then there are crooks.
After five years, I have paid off everything, bought a few new vehicles, some cool toys, and recently a second house just for the business. I no longer have to work 16 hour days 7 days a week. I now work Mon-Thurs 8 hour days and can take a few weeks off here and there. Now that I have the time invested and a okay sized catalog, it's starting to get fun again
Heh heh. Unless I have a terrible last quarter, I'll pass the middle five figures this year, and that's a "lot" for what I grew up with (about the same as my Mom made as a private school principal in a small town, or my sister makes as a junior lawyer in a small firm). So I'm not buying new cars yet. :D But I hope to gradually build to that level. Loans should all be paid off this year. I've only myself and my cats to support, so there's not quite the urgency, and I don't want to burn out. Making a business plan before you start is very smart if you are making enough at another job to put away those savings. I was poverty-stricken and desperate when I started, and it seemed like a better option than food services.
I work between 35 and 40 hours a week now (compared to around 50 when I started), depending on whether I'm on a "big" project or one of the "whew" projects in between those (Morphing Business Suit vs. Fantastical Features, basically). Sometimes I work a six or seven hour day so that I have time to exercise, but I also usually do some work on a weekend. I can't stay motivated if I feel terrible, and not exercising drops my endorphins something fierce. Everyone is very correct in that motivation and discipline are completely key. If you can't make yourself sit in your home office or bedroom for 8 to 10 hours a day now, and do a good proportion of work vs. surfing the internet, you won't magically acquire that ability when you decide to become a merchant.
I had one of my no longer active products on Rendo show up on a piracy site so I decided to track down the user who had uploaded it, and stumbled upon a really nasty (still running) piracy nest. One of those sites that let you wait 60 seconds while it shows a lot of ads until the download starts, or you can pay for a nexpress account without ads. The thing is, they pay those uploading about $20 per GB someone downloads from what you have uploaded. And this person, tracked him/her down to Indonesia ran an interesting circle, like this:
(1) Buy stuff with paypal at DAZ or Rendo (mostly Rendo, check what was uploaded)
(2) Upload it to that server, spreading links on every *gfx*-piracy site.
(3) Getting lots of downloads
(4) Cash in to paypal
(5) Rince and repeat
That sounds like a good start, but you have to figure that whoever's dishing these out to warez sites is starting with a legit copy, right? Or am I being naive?
I think to complete the link, you'd need some subtle form of 3d steganography, reaching into the model itself. So, scenario:
- I buy a product with the idea of putting it out on pirate sites.
- During the download prep, DAZ generates and stores a unique key for the transaction.
- The key is then used to very slightly perturb, say, a dozen preselected and scattered vertices within the model itself. "Very slightly" meaning 3-4 places to the right of the decimal point, in each of the 3 dimensions. Beneath the range of visual detection, IOW.
- I release the product to a warez site.
- DAZ detects and downloads the illegal copy, normalizes and sorts the vertices, and looks for the perturbation signature.
- Boom. I am traced and busted.
It seems like something along those lines could work, but this is just me spouting ideas from the sidelines. I'm sure someone with relevant experience could blow multiple holes in the idea.
That sounds like a good start, but you have to figure that whoever's dishing these out to warez sites is starting with a legit copy, right? Or am I being naive?
I think to complete the link, you'd need some subtle form of 3d steganography, reaching into the model itself. So, scenario:
- I buy a product with the idea of putting it out on pirate sites.
- During the download prep, DAZ generates and stores a unique key for the transaction.
- The key is then used to very slightly perturb, say, a dozen preselected and scattered vertices within the model itself. "Very slightly" meaning 3-4 places to the right of the decimal point, in each of the 3 dimensions. Beneath the range of visual detection, IOW.
- I release the product to a warez site.
- DAZ detects and downloads the illegal copy, normalizes and sorts the vertices, and looks for the perturbation signature.
- Boom. I am traced and busted.
It seems like something along those lines could work, but this is just me spouting ideas from the sidelines. I'm sure someone with relevant experience could blow multiple holes in the idea.
How does DAZ detect the illegal copy?
The only way I can see is that they compare your signature key to what it's supposed to be. So either the signature gets stored with the download or you'd have to go online to validate your content. If that's the case why can't they just force you to log in to your Daz account and compare the product to your purchases to verify. Saves mucking about with the files.
Of course, we have a lot of people that have issues using DIM due to bandwidth caps and not having an always on internet connection so they'd just be out of luck.
What do you do about content from other stores or all of the freebie content out there? How do you determine if a piece of content is supposed to have this encoded signature or not?
How does DAZ detect the illegal copy?
The only way I can see is that they compare your signature key to what it's supposed to be. So either the signature gets stored with the download or you'd have to go online to validate your content. If that's the case why can't they just force you to log in to your Daz account and compare the product to your purchases to verify. Saves mucking about with the files.
Of course, we have a lot of people that have issues using DIM due to bandwidth caps and not having an always on internet connection so they'd just be out of luck.
What do you do about content from other stores or all of the freebie content out there? How do you determine if a piece of content is supposed to have this encoded signature or not?
Oh, somebody would have to report it. The thing with this approach is, the model has your key encoded directly into itself. It's just a matter o scanning it and matching against the keys (and the baseline mesh) that DAZ would have on file.
Again, it was just me armchair quarterbacking. I have no idea of the number and types of RW ways to defeat such a scheme. Well, actually, now that I think about it, one comes immediately to mind.
Oh, somebody would have to report it. The thing with this approach is, the model has your key encoded directly into itself. It's just a matter o scanning it and matching against the keys (and the baseline mesh) that DAZ would have on file.
Again, it was just me armchair quarterbacking. I have no idea of the number and types of RW ways to defeat such a scheme. Well, actually, now that I think about it, one comes immediately to mind.
There are ways to protect the content, and to reliably determine who let the content loose.
However, the PA's and Customers *aren't interested* in protecting the content. Been there, got the scars and teeth marks to prove it.
Kendall
Funny, I was thinking of making my own stuff to sell. I don't know if anyone would buy my products though. Maybe I'll give away stuff for free or for a really low price. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
In a way, that's what I did: I started out some years ago fiddling with the shaders to get a look I liked, then I offered 'em for free (they're still at ShareCG) because there weren't any other free resources of that sort. Folks liked 'em. So now I've got a newer, shinier version along the same lines that is (I pray) making its way storeward even now.
If you want to make a living as an artist you'll need to have many irons in the fire.
I live as an artist but I have many talents I can draw upon. I get work as a 2D illustrator, work as an actor, and work as a musician/composer. Sometimes there will be times when I get to combine two or more of my talents in a single production as when I was both actor and composer/music director in a number of different plays. So in times when acting work is thin I can make my bread doing illustration work or as a musician.
Why would anyone pirate content from a site that offers a 30-day no-questions-asked money back guarantee? :(
Not that piracy is good in any circumstances, but it seems particularly outrageous in a case like this.
I have recently found a LOT of respect for people who do this full time. I'm a single mom of twins and I have a full-time job as my primary income source. However, my ex husband is in the throes of potential-downsizing... his company is shutting down every other week, he gets no paycheck, but isn't off work long enough to collect unemployment. And when he doesn't get paid, I don't get child support, so things are very tight. In the hope that the kids will have Christmas and birthdays this year (twins, born 15 days before Christmas -- budget breaker to start with!) I've spent the last three weekends putting together texture sets for sale and it has sucked EVERY CREATIVE URGE out of me. I have no idea how full-time PAs keep it up. Granted, I don't have much of a system down yet, but it took every waking minute from Friday after work to Sunday at bedtime to create a few reasonably simple texture sets. As soon as I can, I'm going to return my Poser habit back to "hobby" and away from "income."
oh mann, i would luv to work from home. i have an elderly buppy at home, separation anxiety is excrutiating.
i wasn't home when my previous buddy passed away. the regret tortures me.
hmmm. working on a Davyd Four for M4. :) and he'll need a special mildog companion.
I had a successful online store (not graphics) for four years, and one frustrating aspect of working for yourself is your family and friends who (though they don't mean to) disrespect your work ethic. They think you can change your schedule and "do it later" and that really insults the value of what you are doing. It's IMPORTANT or you wouldn't be budgeting time to do it! It's the old "You're your own boss" so can just re-arrange your schedule to go out to lunch, do-this, do-that...and I had no problem telling people not to call or bug me during certain times of the day!
I'm not self-employed, but I work from home. This is one of the battles I have to fight from time to time.
I have regular weekends off now, but that wasn't always the case. My other favorite battle was with people who assumed that I was desperate to use my mid-week "weekend" to run their miscellaneous errands for them while they were at work.
It's amazing how much of your personal ground even well-intentioned people will gradually take, if you just stand by and let them have it.
BTW, I have to say this- to the PA who said you can tell if people are using your items by the renders they do right away- I don't think that's necessarily true, just my opinion. I don't think you can tell if your items are successful based on the number of renders you see, the people who buy a lot of items can't get around to rendering all the stuff they own. Or people might be in the middle of a project; they're not going to drop everything and use your product just because they bought it that week or even that month. I think it's true that you might get a small indication, but I bet there are more people who buy and don't use it right away than buy and use it. People work, they only have so much time to render. We tend to buy what we like so we'll have it. (Guilty!)
So remember, you're appreciated even if we don't render it right off the bat :)
We had an old family friend with this problem. Two kids born on Christmas Day in different years o.O
The deal he made with them was that they got the same Christmas as the rest of the family. Then, half-way around the calendar in June, they each got a Happy Un-Birthday with their own set of presents :D They liked the split into two separate occasions so they didn't go a whole year, and it was of course way easier on the family's holiday budget.
All of my nieces and nephews have their birthdays clustered in the last quarter of the year, and...yeah. Ouch.
Agreed. Your family and friends don't get it at first. Just because I am home, all of a sudden I have time to do stuff like grocery shopping and extra tasks. And it upsets me when they say things like "Oh but you can do that quickly, you work from home" BS. Do not disturb me while I am working. They think they can come visit when you when ever. Treat me like I work at a regular office. I have rules in place now. They know now that if they are broken there is serious trouble:)