Carrara 9 feature request

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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,224
    edited March 2017

    This is how I like to light scenes, for the most part

    click image to watch video

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,003
    edited March 2017
    Scarecrow said:

    Thanks,

    I haven't messed with Daz studio much since iray came along. What I was thinking though was it would be nice to have an ambient light like the uber environment light I used to use in studio with 3delight. I think that one looks better than Carrara's. 

    Have you tried putting an HDRI in Background and using Skylight in Render settings. This is similar to using and UberEnvironment in DS as far as I know. If you do this, you need to reduce Ambient Lighting in the Scene settings (Assemble Room) to zero, or at least very low.

    Post edited by PhilW on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,224

    It also works without an HDRI.

    Just a spherical map or a BiGradient works well too. But HDRI actually cast more light into the scene - or so I'm told. I get well-lit scenes with just jpg, png and bigradient too.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,003

    You will get more directional light with an HDRI. Using Bi-Gradient or a Jpg will give fairly uniform lighting, so the results can appear a bit flat.  With an HDRI, it encodes the intensity of lights into the scene and so you will get more realistic and more vibrant results. There are lots of free ones available on the net in addition to some good and reasonably priced sets on Daz and elsewhere.

  • ScarecrowScarecrow Posts: 145

    Yeah I love the look of hdri lighting, but often just like indirect lighting, render times get too long for animation. I plan on building a second computer, that might get to where I could use hdri lighting for animations. I appreciate all the suggestions. But I still think that Carrara's ambient light when used as it's name implies (for ambient light) doesn't really look that great, and could be improved. This is a feature request thread right?

  • ScarecrowScarecrow Posts: 145

    I'm working on an animation for the nightclub I work at right now. It's 3 minutes long, it's about 2 min and 20 seconds per frame render time. At 24 fps this  is 4320 frames, that works out to about 5 or 6 days round the clock render time.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,003
    edited March 2017
    Scarecrow said:

    Yeah I love the look of hdri lighting, but often just like indirect lighting, render times get too long for animation. I plan on building a second computer, that might get to where I could use hdri lighting for animations. I appreciate all the suggestions. But I still think that Carrara's ambient light when used as it's name implies (for ambient light) doesn't really look that great, and could be improved. This is a feature request thread right?

     

    Scarecrow said:

    Yeah I love the look of hdri lighting, but often just like indirect lighting, render times get too long for animation. I plan on building a second computer, that might get to where I could use hdri lighting for animations. I appreciate all the suggestions. But I still think that Carrara's ambient light when used as it's name implies (for ambient light) doesn't really look that great, and could be improved. This is a feature request thread right?

    Have you tried Ambient Lighting together with the Ambient Occlusion setting in the render room?  That's really the only time I use Ambient Lighting and it can look pretty good and still renders fast.

    As for render times on animation - I hear you! It's always an issue.  I once worked out how long it took to render my "Trick or Treat" animated short. For five minutes screen time, it took around the equivalent of a month of continuous render time!

    Post edited by PhilW on
  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,479
    PhilW said:
    As for render times on animation - I hear you! It's always an issue.  I once worked out how long it took to render my "Trick or Treat" animated short. For five minutes screen time, it took around the equivalent of a month of continuous render time!

     

    And then you spot something you want to change . . .

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,003
    PhilW said:
    As for render times on animation - I hear you! It's always an issue.  I once worked out how long it took to render my "Trick or Treat" animated short. For five minutes screen time, it took around the equivalent of a month of continuous render time!

     

    And then you spot something you want to change . . .

    Well, that was spread over 5-6 months actual time, and for a project like that, I always render to individual frames so that if there is something you pick up, you can just re-render the affected frames without having to redo the whole scene.

  • magaremotomagaremoto Posts: 1,061

    I would consider acceptable an average time between 4 and 6 mins/frame ( 10>15 frames per hour); currently I am rendering my clip under 5 mins/frame with 4 machines and 20 cores only, 4 seconds (120 frames) each render session. Most important to have a few machines working in parallel and a lot of ram (min. 8 Gb per machine) to avoid bottlenecks or carrara crashes/freezings

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,003
    edited March 2017

    Yes I always aim for 5 mins per frame or less. Now that I have Octane, that is another potential route to fast renders - I have recently rendered some heavy city fly-overs and fly-throughs with Octane and it was producing great looking results at 30 secs per frame!

    Post edited by PhilW on
  • magaremotomagaremoto Posts: 1,061

    you lucky guy with performing GPUs ! laugh curious to know if octane has optimized its direct lighting kernel as thea did: in thea adaptive biased engine as 1st engine + direct lighting as 2nd, work greatly for simple animations, in less than a minute you get accurate shots without noise or such

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,003

    That city animation was done with Octane's Direct Lighting kernel, which as you say is faster than the other more photoreal modes but still produces excellent results. Not sure about optimization - I just use 'em!

  • magaremotomagaremoto Posts: 1,061

    issues with glossy and transparent surfaces if I remember correctly

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,003

    When using Direct Lighting in Octane you do get reflection and refraction but not caustics with transparent materials, and you get absorbtion but don't get proper scattering (so materials which mimic sub-surface scattering need Path Tracing or PMC).  The lighting is similar to having Carrara's ambient occlusion mode, with some selectable parameters.  For some scenes it can be pretty indistinguishable from fully photoreal modes like Path Tracing, and it renders that much faster so it is great for animation.

  • magaremotomagaremoto Posts: 1,061

    mmh, issues with realistic foliage and water then. about glare or similar?

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,003

    Do you have an example?  Octane will struggle with lots of trees as it doesn't have "nested replicators". So if you have a tree with say 500 leaves and then make a forest with 500 trees, Carrara understands this and has two levels of replicator, each with 500 instances, no problem.  Octane doesn't support having one replicator nested within another, and tries to resolve this by "flattening" it and sending 500 x 500 instances of the leaves = 250,000 instances. It can get out of hand pretty quickly.  Carrara's Octane plugin allows you optionally to flatten the tree so the individual tree is a larger object, but you don't get the huge numbers of instances.

    Or maybe you were talking about the translucency of leaves?  You would probably need Direct Lighting (or PMC) for that.

  • namtar3dnamtar3d Posts: 204

    Hi there!

    I have some requests:

    1.-Fix V4 bending and morphing. 

    2.-Fully compatibility with Genesis figures and DAZ contents. 

    3.-Particle destruction (like Pulldownit for maya)

    4.-Autosave

     

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,003
    namtar3d said:


    1.-Fix V4 bending and morphing. 

    Daz would say that fix for that was Genesis and then Genesis 2...

     

    namtar3d said:

    2.-Fully compatibility with Genesis figures and DAZ contents. 

    The biggest element of incompatibility is with the Genesis 3 series, which we know they were working on but seems to have stalled.

     

    namtar3d said:

    3.-Particle destruction (like Pulldownit for maya)

    We can dream but I don't think there is any way that will happen.  It is more likely they would include something like this in DS than Carrara as that is where the development is.  But Pulldownit is a $400 plugin...

     

    namtar3d said:

    4.-Autosave

    Not unless they can get saving vastly faster than at present, or it would just interrupt workflow too much.

  • magaremotomagaremoto Posts: 1,061
    PhilW said:

    Do you have an example?  Octane will struggle with lots of trees as it doesn't have "nested replicators". So if you have a tree with say 500 leaves and then make a forest with 500 trees, Carrara understands this and has two levels of replicator, each with 500 instances, no problem.  Octane doesn't support having one replicator nested within another, and tries to resolve this by "flattening" it and sending 500 x 500 instances of the leaves = 250,000 instances. It can get out of hand pretty quickly.  Carrara's Octane plugin allows you optionally to flatten the tree so the individual tree is a larger object, but you don't get the huge numbers of instances.

    Or maybe you were talking about the translucency of leaves?  You would probably need Direct Lighting (or PMC) for that.

    yes I was talking about  translucency, transparency and in-scattering with octane DL via carrara

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,224
    edited March 2017

    Feature Request - Octane to come as a standard choice of engines... for free! Oh... and with a bonus one of these

     

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • namtar3dnamtar3d Posts: 204
    PhilW said:
    namtar3d said:


    1.-Fix V4 bending and morphing. 

    Daz would say that fix for that was Genesis and then Genesis 2...

     

    namtar3d said:

    2.-Fully compatibility with Genesis figures and DAZ contents. 

    The biggest element of incompatibility is with the Genesis 3 series, which we know they were working on but seems to have stalled.

     

    namtar3d said:

    3.-Particle destruction (like Pulldownit for maya)

    We can dream but I don't think there is any way that will happen.  It is more likely they would include something like this in DS than Carrara as that is where the development is.  But Pulldownit is a $400 plugin...

     

    namtar3d said:

    4.-Autosave

    Not unless they can get saving vastly faster than at present, or it would just interrupt workflow too much.

    1.-You're right, but still could be a fix for some bending issues in V4 model in Carrara. Especially tights and arms, they bend pretty weird :(  
    2.-Sad :( There's a lot of Genesis 3 characters i would love to use in Carrara
    3.-I know, :( i'm just dreaming 
    4.-You're right. 

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,301
    Scarecrow said:
    PhilW said:
    Scarecrow said:

    I'm not sure what you mean by "push keyframes around" - you can already do things like scale keyframes to adjust timing, drag groups of keys around, and there are some menu items that will thin out and smooth keys, although sometimes they don't seem to work as well as they should. I recently did some animation in Daz Studio - what a nightmare compared to Carrara! I couldn't believe how primitive it is for animation - you can only see keys for one item at a time, you can't even move a keyframe - unbelievable!

    So imagine the blue circle in the picture is the cursor and you could use that to push the keyframes instead of click and drag. You could change the shape of that curve very quickly and smoothly instead of having to move each keyframe individually, you could even use different shapes or resize it to get the kind of motion you want.

    I agree 100% about studio, when I first started with 3d it was in studio. I messed with it for about a year before I realized it's just not going to do what I want it to and moved up to Carrara. I was constantly wondering "why can't I do this? Shouldn't you be able to do that?" Most of the time I felt like I was actually moving backwards when working on animation. The more time I spent the worse the animation looked usually. Aside from being severely limited the animation tools in studio also seemed to be buggy and not work right for me either. In Carrara everything I was looking for in studio is there, made me very happy.

    Dart, thanks for showing me the smoothing tools, I had no idea, but those are exactly the kind of things I was thinking of.

     

    When you have an animation like this,. with a keyframe on each frame,. rather than thinking about moving each keyframe manually to follow a specific curve,.

    Think about reducing the number of keyframes,.   and use "Tweeners" like bezier to create that curvature.

    Using a tweener between two keyframes allows you to adjust either of those to keys and /or,. the tweener type / settings,. to adjust the curve more easily than would be possible for an animation where every frame is keyed.

    Hope it helps :)

     

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,224
    namtar3d said:
    PhilW said:
    namtar3d said:


    1.-Fix V4 bending and morphing. 

    Daz would say that fix for that was Genesis and then Genesis 2...

     

    namtar3d said:

    2.-Fully compatibility with Genesis figures and DAZ contents. 

    The biggest element of incompatibility is with the Genesis 3 series, which we know they were working on but seems to have stalled.

     

    namtar3d said:

    3.-Particle destruction (like Pulldownit for maya)

    We can dream but I don't think there is any way that will happen.  It is more likely they would include something like this in DS than Carrara as that is where the development is.  But Pulldownit is a $400 plugin...

     

    namtar3d said:

    4.-Autosave

    Not unless they can get saving vastly faster than at present, or it would just interrupt workflow too much.


    4.-You're right. 

    Which would be an Awesome fix. If we could get a way to have full-save as well as partial save options, that would be awesome! For example, if we could create a new partial save which requires the use of another save to be opened again, we could actually store edits to a mesh in a save without including the roiginal mesh save - so we could make shaping add-ons for other Carrara PAs products without including the primary product.

    But even more so, if we could save only what has changed into an existing save, we could get more rapid saves where which an auto-save feature would then be a boon rather than an impossible burden.

    Okay, now who's dreaming? Good seeing you Namtar3d! Loved your ideas!

  • ScarecrowScarecrow Posts: 145
    edited March 2017

     

    3DAGE said:

    When you have an animation like this,. with a keyframe on each frame,. rather than thinking about moving each keyframe manually to follow a specific curve,.

    Think about reducing the number of keyframes,.   and use "Tweeners" like bezier to create that curvature.

    Using a tweener between two keyframes allows you to adjust either of those to keys and /or,. the tweener type / settings,. to adjust the curve more easily than would be possible for an animation where every frame is keyed.

    Hope it helps :)

     

    These animations were created in puppeteer, that's how it creates keyframes, one in every slot. I've tried the Reduce animation filter but it doesn't seem to work, it just deletes everything. I've thinned them out by hand, but try doing that for 3 axis of every bone in a skeleton over a 3 minute animation, talk about tedious. Also I don't use tweeners in the sequencer, I do all my smoothing of key frames in the graph editor, because it gives you much more precise control of your curve than messing with those tweeners. The "smooth" animation filter works pretty well to smooth out puppeteer animations, but to change them, I still think my idea of a new tool would be the quickest way.

    It seems a lot of people on here want to be teachers...

     

    Post edited by Scarecrow on
  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,301

    Tweeners in the Graph editor,. are exactly the same tweeners in the main sequencer,

    it's a more detailed view.

    as for manual reduction,. I have done that a lot for motion capture i create,, or anmations I create, so i'm aware that it's not an instant fix.

    much of the time you should be adjusting the main sections of the figure,. Hip ,abdomen, chest, neck ,head, arms.

    if you're adjusting a lot of keys,. then it' usually

    Hands and fingers are much easier to deal with,. but still a pain

    However,. I wasn't trying to tell you how animate,. just pointing out historically why it's unlikely to happen.

    having people who are willing to help is a good thing,. and there are many here who have years of experience with carrara and other programs.

    if you don't need any help, that's fine. others, with less experience, may benefit from it.

     

     

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,003
    Scarecrow said:

     

    It seems a lot of people on here want to be teachers...

     

    Just trying to provide work arounds as I think the chances of most of the suggestions in this thread actually being implemented aren't particularly high.

  • Autodesk Carrara 9 yes 

    say goodbye to mistakes

    say goodbye to tutorials for $99.95

  • VyusurVyusur Posts: 1,643

    No!!! What mistakes are you talking about? I said "goodbye" to Autodesk a couple of years ago and so happy with my lovely Carrara!

  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 791
    edited March 2017
    creebs said:

    Autodesk Carrara 9 yes 

    say goodbye to mistakes

    say goodbye to tutorials for $99.95

    And say hello to getting fleeced for the rest of your life...I read recently they are going all subscription Adobe style.

    Post edited by DesertDude on
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