Virtual Reality, is there a future for Daz without it?

Ivy

th3Digit said:

a video of my very feeble attempt at using Genesis 3  in this case, in Unreal Engine

I have no skills and just followed a video tutorial like anyone else can

I certainly cannot show others how to do it!!!!!!

I cannot create Blueprints and all that stuff just walk around in premade assets

I don't own an Oculus rift so did not cook the "game" as a VR but you can

as using unlicensed DAZ stuff its only on my PC for video capture

Nice demo Wendy

wiz

VR isn't ready for something like DAZ studio.

Have you ever tried wearing a Rift or Vive for 8-12 hours at a time? (I've never been in for more than 90 minutes, and I've got Rift, Vive, Gear VR, Daydream, Hololens, Moverio, redacted, redacted, and redacted. Oh, and Google Glass).

Right now, VR is nice to mix with your day, i.e. maybe pop in for 60 minutes to pose or paint, then back out to work on the timelines.

ChadCrypto

wiz said:

VR isn't ready for something like DAZ studio.

Have you ever tried wearing a Rift or Vive for 8-12 hours at a time? (I've never been in for more than 90 minutes, and I've got Rift, Vive, Gear VR, Daydream, Hololens, Moverio, redacted, redacted, and redacted. Oh, and Google Glass).

Right now, VR is nice to mix with your day, i.e. maybe pop in for 60 minutes to pose or paint, then back out to work on the timelines.

Wow, you must be rich! :)  

 

I got a oculus rift, using it in unreal engine 4 is pretty fun. I have imported some gen 8 and gen 3 figures. Its cool to pick them up and make them giants and then shrink them into doll size.

kyoto kid

Richard Haseltine said:

nickalaman said:

The point is there are companies similar to Daz the have products that are doing exactly this in VR right now. Where you have a life size Vicky in front of you breathing and blinking, where you can take her hand and pose her. This is more than a gimmick, this is a tool. For example, if i had 2 Daz newbies and we gave them a challenge to make a dual pose where 2 figures are dancing a waltz for example. One did this the traditional way and the other using VR. The traditional method of setting up a new pose would be way too complicated for a Daz newcomer, on the other hand the one with the VR would be able to setup such a complicated pose in a minute or 2. How can i be so sure? Because that's one of the first things I did. 

Still images are nice, but I'm getting bored these days, with Daz as a hobby. Therefore, spending less money, VR brought back the excitement and opened up my wallet, unfortunately the only 2 companies that have what I'm looking for, have hardly any content.

You can drag-pose in the viewport, using the Universal Tool or Active pose tool. I can't see any reason to think doing that in VR would make the process any simpler.

...I use the Active Pose tool frequently to perform fine tuning during posing. I still feel VR would be better suited for modelling.

kyoto kid

CGHipster said:

Sempie said:

Richard Haseltine said:

nickalaman said:

The point is there are companies similar to Daz the have products that are doing exactly this in VR right now. Where you have a life size Vicky in front of you breathing and blinking, where you can take her hand and pose her. This is more than a gimmick, this is a tool. For example, if i had 2 Daz newbies and we gave them a challenge to make a dual pose where 2 figures are dancing a waltz for example. One did this the traditional way and the other using VR. The traditional method of setting up a new pose would be way too complicated for a Daz newcomer, on the other hand the one with the VR would be able to setup such a complicated pose in a minute or 2. How can i be so sure? Because that's one of the first things I did. 

Still images are nice, but I'm getting bored these days, with Daz as a hobby. Therefore, spending less money, VR brought back the excitement and opened up my wallet, unfortunately the only 2 companies that have what I'm looking for, have hardly any content.

You can drag-pose in the viewport, using the Universal Tool or Active pose tool. I can't see any reason to think doing that in VR would make the process any simpler.

Maybe the same reason why drawing on a Cintiq is easier than drawing on a normal Wacom. It is a more direct way of interaction. I was once a traditional pencil animator, that is a very intuitive way of approaching movement. I'd draw broad interesting graphic shapes with strong lines of action and add in the details later. No can do in CGI. Graph editors are fully unintuitive and indirect. Software still puts too many layers between the artists and the art. Manipulating characters without a mouse and the ability to just walk around the pose in a virtual 3D space could be interesting.

Wacom has tablets and pens that are equally as good as what comes with the Cintiq.  The only difference is you pay for the display, personally, I prefer the tablet for saving space.  I have used a Cintiq and found that I prefer the tablet, it really just comes down to a users personal preference.

...sadly tablets don't work for me because they require I hold a pen like item in a hand (as well as vary pressure) that is pretty much crippled by arthritis. Instead I have a professional ergonomic multi button trackball which I can use with my other hand that still has a bit of nimbleness left in the fingers. Yeah unable to simulate pressure changes but setting up scenes doesn't reqire that.

N-RArts

So I'd have to buy a VR gadget AND buy LOADS of licences to use Daz Studio creations in said VR gadgets...  Yeah, you do have to be rich, or have a decent sizeable income to do that. Then again, I think the same about having to buy the top end programs, to become a 3D artist/vendor.

FSMCDesigns

N_R Arts said:

So I'd have to buy a VR gadget AND buy LOADS of licences to use Daz Studio creations in said VR gadgets...  Yeah, you do have to be rich, or have a decent sizeable income to do that. Then again, I think the same about having to buy the top end programs, to become a 3D artist/vendor.

No extended licenses needed for personal use, only if you are developing a commercial game. As for the top end apps for becoming a PA, they just make the job easier. You can crerate in lesser, less expensive apps.

kyoto kid

...a few of PAs here model their creations in Hexagon and make some super products.  

wolf359

 

...sadly tablets don't work for me because they require I hold a pen like item in a hand (as well as vary pressure) that is pretty much crippled by arthritis. Instead I have a professional ergonomic multi button trackball which I can use with my other hand that still has a bit of nimbleness left in the fingers. Yeah unable to simulate pressure changes but setting up scenes doesn't reqire that.........

I still feel VR would be better suited for modelling.

Perhaps when they develop a VR system that can literally scan your thoughts and autocreate the model you were imagining.

I honestly do not think that people outside of the enthusiastic Techy nerd communities,will ever sit for several hours  and work with the VR/Haptic gear in its current configurations...too cumbersome 

Particularly people with exisiting Manual Dexterity limitations. 

 

namffuak

wolf359 said:

 

...sadly tablets don't work for me because they require I hold a pen like item in a hand (as well as vary pressure) that is pretty much crippled by arthritis. Instead I have a professional ergonomic multi button trackball which I can use with my other hand that still has a bit of nimbleness left in the fingers. Yeah unable to simulate pressure changes but setting up scenes doesn't reqire that.........

I still feel VR would be better suited for modelling.

Perhaps when they develop a VR system that can literally scan your thoughts and autocreate the model you were imagining.

I honestly do not think that people outside of the enthusiastic Techy nerd communities,will ever sit for several hours  and work with the VR/Haptic gear in its current configurations...too cumbersome 

Particularly people with exisiting Manual Dexterity limitations. 

 

+1 (or more).

Admittedly I'm a bit of a bomb-throwing anarchist here - I haven't looked at 3-D yet, because there isn't any so far. By which I mean that the action takes place all around me, not just in front. VR could come closer - but tagging it as 'reality' ups my requirements. I want texture, aroma, wind currents, and touch if it's going to be called Virtual Reality. And headgear that weighs in at or below a pair of sunglasses. We're not even close.

CGHipster

The issue with VR atm is there are not enough AAA content creators on board, so it is literally a niche market add to that the still very meager FOV and lense quality, then add to that the bulky headsets and its just not something most people are willing to use for long periods of time.  Most average headsets don't permit the experience people are really after, i have had the Vive, and the Razer Opensource, and now have only the Windows Mixed Reality headset. 

The new RTX Cards may improve VR so who knows what the future holds.  VR Development can be costly, true to form is the Modo Vr, just go to Modo's forums and look at the people who ranted about all the Dev time modo spent on VR rather than core improvements.  Modo's story is that the CEO was geared up for VR and it was his love thing so that is how it came to be, otherwise it might not exist at all.

I would not blame Daz if they bypassed it altogether for the next 10 years since it would take an extremely good PC and very high end video card to allow the same high quality detail in a VR scenario that Daz wants for their software.  It would in many ways misrepresent the quality of the Daz content since most VR is very low poly in its current state and most pc's are not VR ready.

Mada

I think it would all depend on what you would want to do with VR in Daz Studio. There's already editors like Unreal and Unity that is set up for creating experiences so duplicating those features wouldn't have any purpose.

What I would like to get out of being able to do VR in Daz Studio is the ability to step into a scene without having to adjust lights or materials and walk around in the scene. Being able to set up a fly through scene for video would be awesome too. I'm one of the modo people who's actually really chuffed at being able to step into a scene and look at it closely, it makes it a lot easier to pick out mistakes and fix them. Standing next to Victoria in an Elf Hall and checking out step heights and if a seat is going to work for sitting... stuff like that :)

Stonemason sets work perfectly fine for VR - his modelling is efficient and I haven't noticed any slowdown while walking around them - so there is Daz content that's perfectly fine for VR already. I can't wait to see how VR develops in the future, the advances made so far has been amazing and more announced every day.

If I ever have to end up in an old age home in the far future I'm voting for the one with a headset so that I can sit on a mountain top somewhere and watch the trees blowing in the breeze and a mountain stream flowing past, beats staring at the wall any day.

Mada

...but before then you'll find me in VR fighting aliens on a spaceship somewhere far away in the galaxy :P

nonesuch00

Mada said:

I think it would all depend on what you would want to do with VR in Daz Studio. There's already editors like Unreal and Unity that is set up for creating experiences so duplicating those features wouldn't have any purpose.

What I would like to get out of being able to do VR in Daz Studio is the ability to step into a scene without having to adjust lights or materials and walk around in the scene. Being able to set up a fly through scene for video would be awesome too. I'm one of the modo people who's actually really chuffed at being able to step into a scene and look at it closely, it makes it a lot easier to pick out mistakes and fix them. Standing next to Victoria in an Elf Hall and checking out step heights and if a seat is going to work for sitting... stuff like that :)

Stonemason sets work perfectly fine for VR - his modelling is efficient and I haven't noticed any slowdown while walking around them - so there is Daz content that's perfectly fine for VR already. I can't wait to see how VR develops in the future, the advances made so far has been amazing and more announced every day.

If I ever have to end up in an old age home in the far future I'm voting for the one with a headset so that I can sit on a mountain top somewhere and watch the trees blowing in the breeze and a mountain stream flowing past, beats staring at the wall any day.

Actually they should modernize beds and seats for the infirm (if that's what you call it, I'm not too smart about too much), so that they get the sensation of eating a York Peppermint Patty, or walking outside in a breeze, in the rain, in a pool, and the tactile suit they are wearing can help them with mobility. Sort of like Wallace invented on one of the Wallace & Grommit cartoons. 

kyoto kid

wolf359 said:

 

...sadly tablets don't work for me because they require I hold a pen like item in a hand (as well as vary pressure) that is pretty much crippled by arthritis. Instead I have a professional ergonomic multi button trackball which I can use with my other hand that still has a bit of nimbleness left in the fingers. Yeah unable to simulate pressure changes but setting up scenes doesn't reqire that.........

I still feel VR would be better suited for modelling.

Perhaps when they develop a VR system that can literally scan your thoughts and autocreate the model you were imagining.

I honestly do not think that people outside of the enthusiastic Techy nerd communities,will ever sit for several hours  and work with the VR/Haptic gear in its current configurations...too cumbersome 

Particularly people with exisiting Manual Dexterity limitations. 

 

...heh, I'm all for DNI (Direct Neural Interface).

Silver Dolphin

The way the new creation VR sould work is you create the enviroment while in front of your computer monitor and dress your characters. Now the fun begins! Now fire up the VR program creator and do things in game mode where there is no Iray rendering but happening in real time like it happens in games or Iclone or Unity. Now you get to move around and get things done like a 3D Dungeon master and play god on a small scale. This is not impossible it is just that this would make game companies obsolete. Now you can Dungeon dive with your friends and the outcome is up to you.

a_s_lord

nickalaman said:

To my surprise I found 2 companies that did this, one is from Japan and one is local. Both work sort of like Daz in that you have a model, you can pose, morph, dress her, etc.

I guess DAZ would not want you to post the links to these companies?

nicstt

maikdecker said:

kyoto kid said:

...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!... [another satisfied customer]

An old header from a section of the Shadowrun RPG rules about BTL ("Better Than Life") technology where you simply "jack in and enjoy".

Hehe... and all that Shadowrun and Cyberpunk stuff was supposedth have happened when? Five years ago? Ten?

In my opinion, one of the severest problems of Virtual Reality is the lack of a real input method, which is intuitive and adaptive to different circumstances and applications. As long as people have to make a certain hand movement to let their avatar walk forwards calling it virtual REALITY (!) is just hype. It's only "3D enhanced display" and that's it.

So yeah, until a real functioning cyberjack is a) available and b) accepted by the public and not only some basement dwellers, Virtual Reality won't be really reality.

And it's nice to see, that even the people making the rules for the Shadowrun RP - which I loved! - had severe problems to make their Matrix/Virtual Reality rules work together with the rest of their rulebooks. Even implementing something as abstract as magic and an Astral Sphere was easier to do.

So... give me a Cyberjack and I might be ready to try out Virtual Reality

I agree.

It is only virtual reality when my brain controlls my avatar at a subconscious level, like normal walking actions do now; of course there will be the conscious input as well.

Personally, it is closer to being augmented reality, than virtual; although it has a way to go before it is actually augmented.

Wonderland

nickalaman said:

I’ve had an Oculus rift for a few months, last week I decided to see If there was any software similar to Daz, but could work within a VR environment. I thought to myself, if someone could program this, it could be really fun. To my surprise I found 2 companies that did this, one is from Japan and one is local. Both work sort of like Daz in that you have a model, you can pose, morph, dress her, etc.

Imagine my delight when I put on my VR helmet and in front of me is a life size model in the middle of my room. I can look up, down walk around, cool I thought to my self. With a click of a button I have a floating pallet in front of me giving me access to morphs, wow is all I can say. I can play with the nose and guess what, I can actually see what I’m doing in 3D, I don’t have to zoom in and zoom out. I want to zoom in, well I just move my head closer to the nose, I want to rotate the model, I just take a step to the right and turn my head, just like real life. I’m just blown away.

You want to pose, now this is fun, honestly, I hate posing models, it takes forever, and I never get it right. But this, this is the way posing should be. If I want the models’ right hand over her mouth for example; I just grab her right hand with mine and lift her hand as I would in real life until it covers her mouth. I mean how easy is that, complicated poses can be done in seconds. And there’s also soft body dynamics, so when you move the person, their entire body reacts. Oh did I mention that they blink and breathe.

I know VR is just a small part of the market at the moment. And most companies don’t think it’s worth the investment. Things will change in few years, virtual reality will become affordable, and consumers will demand applications that embrace VR. I hope Daz figures that out sooner than later. Just because you are the market leader today, doesn’t mean anything 5 years from now.

I’ve tried many programs in VR, from gaming, flight sims, to educational., some work well some don’t, my opinion is VR was made for applications like Daz.

 

I have an Oculus Rift too. What program is this??? I've never seen it in the Oculus Store. Can you export the character to be used in other 3D programs? 

VR is addicting. Every time I see or experience something in real life, I say "that would be so cool in VR!" 

And if DS could be in VR and posing could be done as you describe, that would be AMAZING! Even better if IRay could render faster, could you imagine walking in VR in a Stonemason scene and being able to change it, add characters and props with your Touch control hands, fly over it, all in IRay VR! 

Wonderland

wiz said:

VR isn't ready for something like DAZ studio.

Have you ever tried wearing a Rift or Vive for 8-12 hours at a time? (I've never been in for more than 90 minutes, and I've got Rift, Vive, Gear VR, Daydream, Hololens, Moverio, redacted, redacted, and redacted. Oh, and Google Glass).

Right now, VR is nice to mix with your day, i.e. maybe pop in for 60 minutes to pose or paint, then back out to work on the timelines.

I binge watch Netflix or Hulu on my Oculus for several hours if I can't sleep. I think I've been in for as long as six hours. If you lean back rather than sit up straight, it's much more comfortable.(I was thinking of adding a little more foam in the cheek areas though...) 

wf

wiz said:

VR isn't ready for something like DAZ studio.

Have you ever tried wearing a Rift or Vive for 8-12 hours at a time? (I've never been in for more than 90 minutes, and I've got Rift, Vive, Gear VR, Daydream, Hololens, Moverio, redacted, redacted, and redacted. Oh, and Google Glass).

Right now, VR is nice to mix with your day, i.e. maybe pop in for 60 minutes to pose or paint, then back out to work on the timelines.

I've never used Daz3D for more than a couple of hours at a time. What's the problem using the VR headset to pose and interact with the 3D world?

I think they need to switch to a modern game engine to get the new DXR Raytracing features that are in the Unreal 4.22 for example. Unity3D will support raytracing later this year. They also got lots of other features like VR support for free.

Drip

Frankly speaking, I see VR as nothing more than a contemporary novelty. True holography is something I'd find more interesting as a long term display solution, with Augmented Reality as a possible stopgap before holography gets developed. Since VR is basically the predecessor of AR, and AR is already possible, it's only a matter of time for VR to get phased out.

Kitsumo

wf said:

wiz said:

VR isn't ready for something like DAZ studio.

Have you ever tried wearing a Rift or Vive for 8-12 hours at a time? (I've never been in for more than 90 minutes, and I've got Rift, Vive, Gear VR, Daydream, Hololens, Moverio, redacted, redacted, and redacted. Oh, and Google Glass).

Right now, VR is nice to mix with your day, i.e. maybe pop in for 60 minutes to pose or paint, then back out to work on the timelines.

I've never used Daz3D for more than a couple of hours at a time. What's the problem using the VR headset to pose and interact with the 3D world?

I think they need to switch to a modern game engine to get the new DXR Raytracing features that are in the Unreal 4.22 for example. Unity3D will support raytracing later this year. They also got lots of other features like VR support for free.

That works great for you, but there are users who use DS for 8-10 hours or more. Some of the PAs say they work 12-14 hour days. That's a long time to wear a headset.

Personally, I'd be happy if they just improve the OpenGL preview mode.

Paradigm

nonesuch00 said:

I somethimes think that it would be nicer to watch a movie, 3D or not, with VR headsets than on the TV attached to my wall but haven't tried it yet because I've yet to purchase a DayDream headset with a good set of earbuds that attach to the phone. I don't like Bluetooth earbuds because of the requirement of yet another device that I have to charge to use and running out of power while in use.

There's an app that makes it look like you're sitting in a movie theater. Really cool.

SixDs

Well, I'm an old fart, so I have a different perspective on all this. I am not averse to the idea of engaging in a little virtual reality from time to time, in fact, I do it fairly regularly (although I really think it should be more appropriately referred to as virtual fantasy - if I want reality that exists just outside the door). I don't have any fancy, expensive gear and I don't need to wear anything. I was born with the most powerful and comprehensive virtual reality equipment conceivable. My head. Or, more specifically, my mind, coupled with an abundance of imagination. Oftentimes, whether reading a book, or watching a film or TV show, I will immerse myself in the story, the environment, the works, assuming that I find it interesting. The technology being discussed may be interesting, impressive or "cool", and anyone interested in it is certainly welcome to indulge. But, for me, as long as I have my imagination I have the ability to immerse myself in a fantasy, and it costs little or nothing, doesn't require special equipment or facilities, and is completely portable.

WendyLuvsCatz

just because some don't want to use a feature I do not understand the need to want to deny other's it

not everyone wants to use iray or dforce for example but for those that do it's there 

I do think it should not be compulsory though just an added feature like it is on most games

SixDs

I'm not certain that I read anything by anyone that suggested that anyone be denied anything, Wendy. I was certainly not suggesting that, in fact I specifically stated in my post "anyone interested in it is certainly welcome to indulge". I was merely offering my personal perspective on the matter without making any value judgements relative to other's perspectives. To each their own.

bluejaunte

SixDs said:

Well, I'm an old fart, so I have a different perspective on all this. I am not averse to the idea of engaging in a little virtual reality from time to time, in fact, I do it fairly regularly (although I really think it should be more appropriately referred to as virtual fantasy - if I want reality that exists just outside the door). I don't have any fancy, expensive gear and I don't need to wear anything. I was born with the most powerful and comprehensive virtual reality equipment conceivable. My head. Or, more specifically, my mind, coupled with an abundance of imagination. Oftentimes, whether reading a book, or watching a film or TV show, I will immerse myself in the story, the environment, the works, assuming that I find it interesting. The technology being discussed may be interesting, impressive or "cool", and anyone interested in it is certainly welcome to indulge. But, for me, as long as I have my imagination I have the ability to immerse myself in a fantasy, and it costs little or nothing, doesn't require special equipment or facilities, and is completely portable.

Your TV is also special equipment that you could choose to avoid and use your imagination instead. In fact, I'm pretty sure this argument was made by some when the TV first appeared. 

Ostadan

Or, as they used to say, "The pictures are better on radio."

Kitsumo

I dont think anyone is denying anyone else anything, just responding to the OP's suggestion that Daz will go bankrupt if they dont jump on VR right now. Things don't work that way.

I'm sure some here can remember before color monitors were a thing. They seem like an obvious choice now, but at the time it was a waiting game between hardware makers, content producers, software developers, and customers. Nobody wants to be the first to stick their neck out.