Are Genesis 2 People gone forever?
njs
Posts: 71
in The Commons
Hi, it's njs.
Are Genesis 2 People gone forever?
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Yes!
Where'd they go?
Are you .... looking for the Genesis 2 base figures? They still show up in my DIM, but not sure if that comes from Studio automatically or if Studio only comes with the newer generations.
Or do you mean something else?
Huh? Gone? I am looking at the pro bundles right now in the store.
there are 2400 G2 Female products and close to 1000 G2 Male her at DAZ alone. Not gone for sure
No.
think the OP means new characters, clothing etc
It appears to be a policy to only support the latest figure or at least support that as well as any older ones as you do occasionally see a V4 or M4 item included by some vendors esp hairs.
Most of the content creators are keeping up with the times, and focusing on Genesis 8, and to a lesser extent, Genesis 3 at this point. Not sure when the last Genesis 2 specific product was added to the store. I still use Genesis 2 though, and still buy Genesis 2 stuff when the sale price is right...
I'm also using other generations. The only figures I don't focus much on are the V3/4 era figures, although I still use those occasionally. Genesis is easier to use for me. The V4 era stuff that I buy (on sale) I port forward using autofit, when the textures can be updated using shaders and such, except in those rare cases when autofit doesn't go well (mainly a shoe issue).
still waiting for david6 and freak6
I model my own clothing & content
thus I use Genesis 2 exclusively
with Zero regard for what figure the PA's are supporting.
G3-8 Look great however they are too much extra work
to animate& lipsynch
G1-G2 Forever!!!
SIGH!!! heres a little history of Ivy facts. so it does not sound like I am beating this horse again.
Last genesis2 character released at daz was Lord of Baers HD back last june 2017, he was my last g2m character i could purchase here at daz as well.
At first I kept a open mind about genesis3 even though I could not use it for my intentions. I hoped for better when genesis 8 was released. which turned out to be very disappointing that it does not work in animations all that well or does it work or play well with other 3d software. even though it was touted the best backward compatibility character daz releases. Ha! Has anyone else tried using BHV files or older generation aniblocks with Genesis 8 .. HA HA HA . it looks like a dumbo bird trying to learn how to fly. Sorry I call BS the best backward compatibility character thing..it wasn't for me.
So I DO NOT BUY Genesis3 or genesis 8 characters, as "Wolf" stated its to dam hard to work with in my primary interest which is animations, especially if you plan on working with daz characters in other 3rd party animations software, the last couple of years it appears Daz has pretty much made it b y design so g3 & g8 will not work well with other software like Poser, Iclone, blender, etc.without a ton of work-arounds to make it do what you want. At least genesis and g2 had DSON importer for poser. & as of lately from what I have seen in the stores most of g8 clothing has mostly been just rehash of older clothing remade over for g8. seriously!!! I don't need more of the same ol clothing REMADE OVER that is just silly.
I have installed daz 10 to work with deforce & after 3 months of using it I have no use for it at all. 1) deforce is way to unstable & resource intensive for animations when dynamic clothing controls works much better & fast and easier to use .2) Iray is nice to play with for still renders it does give great results. But also way to resource intensive for animation use, unless you have a brand new state of the art computer. with access to render farm. other wises not worth using daz Iray IMO for animation. I have made enough animations in both iray and 3dl using Daz Studio exclusively to know what works best or not..
As Wolf said , I have also started making my own genesis & genesis2 clothing and characters that I need because they can't be bought in any of the stores anymore . Occasionally I will buy gensis3 clothing and hair items if I can make them fit to genesis2 and they are not iray only items, I have enough older content from generation 4 all the way up to genesis 3 that I can kit bash & autotfit about anything I need to genesis or genesis2 now days anyway.
I guess when a person that been using daz long enough gets to a point I am at, where investing in new characters are pointless when the old ones work better for your needs then whats being released. so it does not bother me anymore that no one makes,sells or cater support products for older genesis or genesis2 to fill my needs any more, I save my money and fore fill my own 3d content needs myself.
For Pa's reading my comment I love you guys, I know you work very hard at what you do to bring quality products to us & I thank you for all your efforts. But if you like me to consider buying your products. Things I buy now days are environments and props if they are NOT IRAY ONLY and genesis and genesis2 characters & clothing. I know you have to make what will bring you the most buck for your efforts. But some of us still use genesis characters ... So there you have it, the ball in your court are you going to let opportunity pass you buy?
Yeah I want 3DL only stuff for Genesis 1!
...I personally like G3, however, granted, I am not into animation. Yeah I know I tend to be the skeptic when a new Genesis is released but once I see a distinct advantage over the previous generation, then yes I move on. With G8 that is not so much the case other than some changes to the facial mesh and independent eyebrows, So G3 is the pretty much end of the line for me for now considering the amount of investment I put in, and work I have done with it.
However we are now beginning to see less and less for G3 (as is the usual case several months after a new iteration of Genesis is released). So in a year or so, I wouldn't be surprised to see another thread like this, but for G3.
The thing with G3 G8 is they use bones instead of morphs for expressions, so any software based on morphs will not work until you convert the needed expressions to morphs, that's entirely possible. Also there are control bones that may not play well with BVH, but that only concerns pre-recorded animations that usually you have to fit to some extent anyway. So sure G1 G2 is easier but G3 G8 should be doable too.
That said, it seems iClone 7 can work nicely with G3 and G8. Blender also does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHoK2AU6fHo
http://diffeomorphic.blogspot.com/
After using Power Pose and the amazing facial rigging with G8, I can't go back to using the older generations. It's just SO GOOD at creating more realistic expressions.
I've had a lot of fun with the new rigging and the ability to get asymmetric expressions really quickly is something I've been wanting with the older figures, and now that we have it I find myself using the older generations less and less.
I'm still pretty new to all this stuff, still so much I need to learn. The only thing that stops me from buying new stuff if it's it Iray only, I don't have a great laptop for this type of thing so I prefer to render in 3DL, so my favorites are G1, 2, and 3, but there are a lot of G8 that I've gotten that I like.
This is true,Actually we have been able to import a G3/G8 into Iclone
with auto conversion to an animated ,talking Iclone character since version 6.
The truth of the matter is that I have the tools to animate literally any figure
from poser 4 "Dork" to P6 -P7-P8 James,Jessie, Sydney
,Simon,Alison,Ryan,Rex,Roxie etc etc up to the G8 Figures.
It is not a matter of capability or any Emotional considerations
, in my case, it is a matter, of Logic & efficiency.
I Love My powerful Iclone for animation, however I dont
render from there.
I export the motion Data back out to Daz Studio where I Add my lipsynch and Facial animation,Final Clothing outfits and any other final tweaks with graphmate before exporting the MDD data to a copy of my figure mesh waiting to render in Maxon C4D studio version.
Now yes,
Daz inc. has finally fixed the BVH import for the G3/8 figures but that requires Updating to 4.10 just to get my Iclone Motion Data directly to a G3/G8 figure without retargeting from a G2 figure with the free script from ZAZ777
as I did to get Fat George HD for the G3 male animated for this scene in "Galactus Rising"
I have My DS 4.8 perfectly configured with external third party plugins/scripts
including Cloth simulation, and have no interest in possibly losing some functionality with 4.10 ..or using the 4.10 Beta and having to launch it just for Proper BVH import capability to G3/8 that frankly should have been there when G3/ was first released
.....again a matter, of Logic & Efficiency
And on the matter of lipsynch The only options for the G3/G8 figures are
Loading up the 32 bit version of Daz Studio and using the basic mimic plugin with no phoneme editing options other than Manual groking with graphmate.
Or use the 64 bit Mimic Live with no phoneme editing options other than Manual groking with graphmate and no built in ability to use Pre-recorded audiowithout resorting to the cumbersome "hack" of using an external Audio Device and a double ended 35mm pin cord to capture audio from the other device while recording "live " with mimic Live 64 bit.
again a matter, of Logic & Efficiency .
All of my external tools for animation that include
Mimic 3 pro with phoneme editor
Iclone Pro pipeline
and Natural Motion Endorphin for realistic ragdoll physics
All of these Export motion Data Directly to
the G2 figures without the need for workarounds.
again a matter, of Logic & Efficiency.
I believe in this case it's just a matter of pipelines. If I was you I would just use iClone 7 for everything. The new real-time PBR is good enough for the quality you seem to target. And I love your short so much being me also a fan of Marvel heroes
https://www.reallusion.com/iclone/daz3d/
Yeah I seen it before.
DID you ever notice that when people start saying character can work with this or that or that character works in this software and they produce a video or animation as proof, that its always a demo talking about how it can work with a WORK AROUND for said character. or its a 15 second test video of a girl dancing or walking cycle.. Ha! Its never seems to be a full length complex CHARACTER animation or a animation more than a few second long? I wonder why that is? Not that it mattersmuch to me, I prefer to work with toons now days anyway.
EDIT: PS I have worked with daz studio exclusively for animation for over 8 years. I have over 72 animated shorts films & Yes I EVEN worked with g3 for a while but it was more wrk than it was worth.. So I know where I am coming from with experience.. I don't always believe those folks that are trying to sell you something and offer demos as proof that t works , I go by real world experiences , not demos of work of work arounds
It's not a policy, simply when a new figure is relased the market tends to shift to buying content for that figure so new things for older figures sell way less. When you depend on the income the choice is easy to make...
Finally found you, brother!
Anyway, newer generation are truly a mistake, IMHO. The first Genesis was the real change, one figure for everything... But it looks like the market wants only scattered stuff...
While I like the idea of a single mesh for both figures, I can see a very big difference between genesis 1 and the later genesis versions both in looks and fuctionality, but that is a whole other conversation.
I still use GF2 in renders, especially since I can use gen 3 skins on her.
It's my understanding based off forum threads from PAs that DAZ encourages support for newer figures and since they decide what items get put in the store, that is basically policy if true
PA's are under the restraints of an NDA so will not confirm it but those still releasing stuff for other figures at Renderosity have hinted at it on facebook etc that support for the latest figures is expected.
It is ok it is saving me a lot of money and I too am learning to model.
There are a lot still about; are new characters based off them? Almost never.
TBH, I don't see the point; G3 added improvements, and G8 more still.
The only benefit is easier access to older products, which is largely mitigated by the products available to transfer skin textures; clothes are easier still; and hair is doable, and if nothing else can be parented.
I honestly don't know whether Daz would be up to selling an older figure. I mean, they've done one step back a number of times, like when G8 was released, there were G3 releases for a while.
But as a vendor I wouldn't bother, because it's basically throwing away potential sales right off the bat. There's literally no reason I would volunteer to do that, except as weird freebies for stuff that amuses me. Like I keep noodling around with shirts for Genesis Four Arms, because I really find that figure amusing; but whether or not Daz would accept such an item, it's totally not worth all the effort to get it ready for sale.
As an aside, there's a LOT of work to go from 'sculpted thing that I can make work in scenes' to something you can sell. Figures need to be properly rigged, morphs so that the item/figure looks good with poses customers might use, all the thumbnails, documentation, testing...
So, yeah, four arm shirts might appear in my ShareCG some day, but there's pretty much 0 chance I'd ever make them into vendor-worthy items.
If you tell PAs that 'if you want my money, make this item that's not popular,' you are essentially asking them to volunteer to lower their income. Your beef isn't with the PAs, it's with the customer base. If you want certain items to be made more, encourage customers to want them more.
Totally agree with you.
Double deleted
You are quite correct sir it is a matter of pipelines.
Reallusion has recently made tremendous progress toward making
their ecosystem of content& programs an attractive option for people
not wanting to to be bothered with importing/exporting to other programs and keep everything in Iclone.
The newest base Avatars are far more attractive as final render actors
than any of the previous generation Iclone realtime Avatars
and have many morph options with the free Character creator application.
However Genesis, in native Daz format is still, superior
with its JCM and subD options retained in a .obj/MDD export to C4D or even lightwave3D
Maxon Cinema4D (even My ancient version)
still offers waaay too many internal effects and options
for a Comic Book/Sci fi Nerd Like myself, to even consider doing final renders from my beloved Iclone
such as the ability to export cameras & lights to Adobe After effects
or Autodesk combustion for compositing My fire/Smoke and professional lens flares.
Not to mention exporting meshes to Nextlimit realflow to interact with its professional quality fluid simulations and bring the fluid sims back to C4D for rendering.
And the ability to fracture geometry on the spot and have it simulate with rigid body dynamics such As that floor collapsing from under that female
near the end of the clip I posted earlier.
Indeed!!! those examples are good to see that the options technically exists
But frankly I never see any thing that looks "finished" in those examples.
Someone recently offered some very Blunt ,yet sage advice,to an aspiring
PA, in another thread
LOL!!!
If I were a DAZ PA ,depending on this as at least part of my living income..
I would Be DS 4.10 /Genesis 8 without question.
The very nature of this market requires planned obsolecense
for growth... thats the economic reality of it. IMHO
I would not call the newer generations a "mistake" but more of an acknowledgment (IMHO)
That the original concept for the genesis platform ,though highly innovative, had the long term potential to be both limiting and distruptive.(IMHO)
Limiting in the sense that your market May eventually be reduced to selling individual Skin maps and morphs.
No more expensive, must have named and numbered "Amazing new hot chick# 7" Character bundles.
Disruptive in the same way a cure for cancer would
actually disrupt the lives of those employed in the "cancer research industry".
Both scenarios IMHO would likely be fatal to a Loss leader business model that is driven by the sales of NEW products not by people auto fitting an recycling existing ones.