Genesis 2 is not Genesis

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  • GigabeatGigabeat Posts: 164
    edited September 2013

    dlavizzo said:
    I feel like almost everything in the Shop is geared around female characters. I was trying to create a male character to use as a reference for some of my artists (I'm designing a science fiction card game) and it was frustrating trying to figure out what products would work with the Male Genesis figure, or even to find things that were specifically designed for males.

    Yep, let's face it, and say it out loud SEX SELLS. Anyhoot I'll like to give a big thanks to Daz for creating G2F and also a big thanks to the producers of Dawn as well. Both these releases has helped me save a tonne of money. Now that content creators are concentrating on either GF2 or Dawn, both of which I don't support, I have saved a tonne of money to spend elsewhere. I'll only support Genesis Unisex.....to the bitter end!

    Post edited by Gigabeat on
  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,269
    edited September 2013

    dlavizzo said:
    I feel like almost everything in the Shop is geared around female characters. I was trying to create a male character to use as a reference for some of my artists (I'm designing a science fiction card game) and it was frustrating trying to figure out what products would work with the Male Genesis figure, or even to find things that were specifically designed for males.

    It's true that the vast majority of new releases have been female-focused, but that isn't always the case. Last year there was much more balance, and there probably will be again once M6 is released. Any Genesis hair or clothing will work with male Genesis characters (even female stuff, like this). With AutoFit, you can also use clothing designed for Michael 4...it often works quite well.

    Anything in particular you're looking for and not finding?

    Post edited by Scott Livingston on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 9,358
    edited December 1969


    Just to step into the wayback machine a bit. V4 eventually added male morphs, but the M4 figure never had female morphs that I know of. The V4 males never looked very male and few PA created characters based on those morphs, but they were there if you wanted to use them. ...

    M4 female http://www.daz3d.com/m4-enhanced-mina-for-m4
    for example: http://www.sharecg.com/v/47265

  • ScraverXScraverX Posts: 151
    edited December 1969

    I have G2F, but I haven't really used it. I am looking forward to G2M - why? I've never been quite happy with the G1 figure... Just a few little things I tend to pick, that's all.
    Maybe with G2M, M6, D6, etc I'll be able to get closer to some of the figures I'd like to do... maybe. Maybe with M and F a little more specific we'll get people making some more interesting male clothes?

    Clothing, that's just another minor gripe :)

    All good.

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,646
    edited December 1969

    Take a good hard look at the majority of the outfits that have been offered for the G2F since it's release. Look at the parts of the clothing most of them are missing. See a pattern?

    How many of those types of outfits are you going to buy for the G2M?

  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,269
    edited October 2013

    icprncss said:
    Take a good hard look at the majority of the outfits that have been offered for the G2F since it's release. Look at the parts of the clothing most of them are missing. See a pattern?

    How many of those types of outfits are you going to buy for the G2M?


    I guess about as many as I've bought for G2F... ;-)

    There are a bunch of more modest outfits (or at least outfits with fuller coverage) for G2F too though...more skimpy stuff to be sure, but that's what the earlier Victorias got also.

    Post edited by Scott Livingston on
  • ghastlycomicghastlycomic Posts: 2,342
    edited December 1969


    I still want a true Asian styled androgynous Chibi though. my morphing skills aren't up to snuff. If someone makes one I'd prefer it for genesis 1 though. I could get a decent androgynous body easy enough, but sculpting the head and eyes properly would kill me. Morphing eyes is a major pain.

    Because who wouldn't want a chibi battle nun with a pet zombie?

    http://www.sharecg.com/v/71999/view/21/DAZ-Studio/Ghastlys-Battle-Nun-genesis-1
    http://www.sharecg.com/v/70264/view/21/DAZ-Studio/Ghastlys-Big-Eye-Anime-Team-Genesis-1-morphs.
    http://www.sharecg.com/v/70211/view/21/DAZ-Studio/Ghastlys-General-Purpose-Anime-Team-G1-Morphs
    http://www.sharecg.com/v/69688/view/21/DAZ-Studio/Ghastlys-Ghastly-Zombie

    chibi_battle_nun_1.jpg
    1000 x 1250 - 526K
  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 1,099
    edited December 1969

    We have all kind of HD ultra detailed creatures for “Genesis” 2 Female.
    But of course, we need a whole separate figure just for a human male because men and women are soooo different you need specific meshes.
    Sure. :roll:
    Genesis proved you didn’t need separate meshes and those HD Creatures morphs keeps proving it too.

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,920
    edited October 2013

    Hellboy said:
    We have all kind of HD ultra detailed creatures for “Genesis” 2 Female.
    But of course, we need a whole separate figure just for a human male because men and women are soooo different you need specific meshes.
    Sure. :roll:
    Genesis proved you didn’t need separate meshes and those HD Creatures morphs keeps proving it too.

    From a modeling stand-point G2F is better. You can better account for the female form in clothing than you could modeling around the Genesis base (would you create a woman's bra using Chuck Norris as a base? probably not).
    Post edited by Vaskania on
  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,646
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    Hellboy said:
    We have all kind of HD ultra detailed creatures for “Genesis” 2 Female.
    But of course, we need a whole separate figure just for a human male because men and women are soooo different you need specific meshes.
    Sure. :roll:
    Genesis proved you didn’t need separate meshes and those HD Creatures morphs keeps proving it too.

    From a modeling stand-point G2F is better. You can better account for the female form in clothing than you could modeling around the Genesis base (would you create a woman's bra using Chuck Norris as a base? probably not).

    No but it might be good for a few laughs though...

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,920
    edited December 1969

    icprncss said:
    Vaskania said:
    Hellboy said:
    We have all kind of HD ultra detailed creatures for “Genesis” 2 Female.
    But of course, we need a whole separate figure just for a human male because men and women are soooo different you need specific meshes.
    Sure. :roll:
    Genesis proved you didn’t need separate meshes and those HD Creatures morphs keeps proving it too.

    From a modeling stand-point G2F is better. You can better account for the female form in clothing than you could modeling around the Genesis base (would you create a woman's bra using Chuck Norris as a base? probably not).

    No but it might be good for a few laughs though...
    Heh... and blackmail. ;)

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 1,099
    edited October 2013

    Vaskania said:
    Hellboy said:
    We have all kind of HD ultra detailed creatures for “Genesis” 2 Female.
    But of course, we need a whole separate figure just for a human male because men and women are soooo different you need specific meshes.
    Sure. :roll:
    Genesis proved you didn’t need separate meshes and those HD Creatures morphs keeps proving it too.

    From a modeling stand-point G2F is better. You can better account for the female form in clothing than you could modeling around the Genesis base (would you create a woman's bra using Chuck Norris as a base? probably not).

    It worked for Genesis and I see no improvement on "G"F2 clothing (or anything else).

    Post edited by Hellboy on
  • DZ_jaredDZ_jared Posts: 1,316
    edited December 1969

    Hellboy said:
    Vaskania said:
    Hellboy said:
    We have all kind of HD ultra detailed creatures for “Genesis” 2 Female.
    But of course, we need a whole separate figure just for a human male because men and women are soooo different you need specific meshes.
    Sure. :roll:
    Genesis proved you didn’t need separate meshes and those HD Creatures morphs keeps proving it too.

    From a modeling stand-point G2F is better. You can better account for the female form in clothing than you could modeling around the Genesis base (would you create a woman's bra using Chuck Norris as a base? probably not).

    It worked for Genesis and I see no improvement on "G"F2 clothing (or anything else).

    It worked, but it was sure difficult. Just because something works doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited October 2013

    DAZ_jared said:
    Hellboy said:
    Vaskania said:
    Hellboy said:
    We have all kind of HD ultra detailed creatures for “Genesis” 2 Female.
    But of course, we need a whole separate figure just for a human male because men and women are soooo different you need specific meshes.
    Sure. :roll:
    Genesis proved you didn’t need separate meshes and those HD Creatures morphs keeps proving it too.

    From a modeling stand-point G2F is better. You can better account for the female form in clothing than you could modeling around the Genesis base (would you create a woman's bra using Chuck Norris as a base? probably not).

    It worked for Genesis and I see no improvement on "G"F2 clothing (or anything else).

    It worked, but it was sure difficult. Just because something works doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.
    What about improving autofit so it could transfer custom bones like ghost handles? I'm asking because with split genders such functionality would be even more in demand and yet since DS 4 started I haven't seen any improvements in autofit area.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,300
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    DAZ_jared said:
    Hellboy said:
    Vaskania said:
    Hellboy said:
    We have all kind of HD ultra detailed creatures for “Genesis” 2 Female.
    But of course, we need a whole separate figure just for a human male because men and women are soooo different you need specific meshes.
    Sure. :roll:
    Genesis proved you didn’t need separate meshes and those HD Creatures morphs keeps proving it too.

    From a modeling stand-point G2F is better. You can better account for the female form in clothing than you could modeling around the Genesis base (would you create a woman's bra using Chuck Norris as a base? probably not).

    It worked for Genesis and I see no improvement on "G"F2 clothing (or anything else).

    It worked, but it was sure difficult. Just because something works doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.
    What about improving autofit so it could transfer custom bones like ghost handles? I'm asking because with split genders such functionality would be even more in demand and yet since DS 4 started I haven't seen any improvements in autofit area.

    I seem to recall a number of improvements in Autofit, most notably preserving morphs. I haven't tried G2F myself, but I've heard that Autofit has been further improved.

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 1,099
    edited October 2013

    DAZ_jared said:
    Hellboy said:
    Vaskania said:
    Hellboy said:
    We have all kind of HD ultra detailed creatures for “Genesis” 2 Female.
    But of course, we need a whole separate figure just for a human male because men and women are soooo different you need specific meshes.
    Sure. :roll:
    Genesis proved you didn’t need separate meshes and those HD Creatures morphs keeps proving it too.

    From a modeling stand-point G2F is better. You can better account for the female form in clothing than you could modeling around the Genesis base (would you create a woman's bra using Chuck Norris as a base? probably not).

    It worked for Genesis and I see no improvement on "G"F2 clothing (or anything else).

    It worked, but it was sure difficult. Just because something works doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.

    But it didn’t.
    Maybe the workflow improved for clothes makers doing breasts, but that’s it. At the expense of halving Genesis' capabilities while making it twice as expensive for us users.

    Post edited by Hellboy on
  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 4,896
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    From a modeling stand-point G2F is better. You can better account for the female form in clothing than you could modeling around the Genesis base (would you create a woman's bra using Chuck Norris as a base? probably not).

    Are you going to tell Chuck Norris that he needs to drop his upcoming Chuck's Secret line of Lingerie? I sure ain't, cause he kicks people when he's mad. (And given that old Chuckles is now 73, it may not be much longer before he NEEDS a bra. er... don't tell Chuck I said that.)
  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,865
    edited October 2013

    Hellboy said:
    DAZ_jared said:
    Hellboy said:
    Vaskania said:
    Hellboy said:
    We have all kind of HD ultra detailed creatures for “Genesis” 2 Female.
    But of course, we need a whole separate figure just for a human male because men and women are soooo different you need specific meshes.
    Sure. :roll:
    Genesis proved you didn’t need separate meshes and those HD Creatures morphs keeps proving it too.

    From a modeling stand-point G2F is better. You can better account for the female form in clothing than you could modeling around the Genesis base (would you create a woman's bra using Chuck Norris as a base? probably not).

    It worked for Genesis and I see no improvement on "G"F2 clothing (or anything else).

    It worked, but it was sure difficult. Just because something works doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.
    But it didn’t. Maybe the workflow improved for clothes makers doing breasts, but that’s it. At the expense of halving Genesis' capabilities while making it twice as expensive for us users.
    Ditto'ng this -- all-in-one Genesis offers huge benefits to so many users, it seems ridiculous to throw that away because of a vendor-side technical issue that could've been resolved far better by DAZ providing the 3D equivalent of a few dress-maker's dummies.

    Yes, there are some user-side improvements to G2F, but with all the conversions and whatnot it's such a pain to use compared to the seamless workflow of Genesis that I rarely get any benefit out of them. We're about to get G2Male, so between that and Zev0's products one of my main objections to G2X is about to be resolved, but only one. We're getting this over four month's later than G2F, and I just bought the HD Creature Creator Morphs 'n' stuff for her -- those will be far more effective for me once the G2M versions are out, how long to we have to wait for that? Four months? Four months before I can use these as effectively as the Genesis versions worked out of the box, and for no good reason. Then again, I'm sure somebody'll come up with ways to convert morphs, UV, geografts, and clothes back'n'forth between G2Male and G2F -- more hoop-jumping, oh joy.

    And are we ever going to get back how in Genesis the nominally male and female morphs could be used together to help depict the widest range of humanity than had ever before been possible in this medium? People aren't all split into clear-cut male and female only, human gender dimorphism and expression are spectrums, and gouging out our ability to depict that after Genesis did it so well is a particularly nasty form of erasure. Never mind losing the simple ability to depict men and women who look similar to each other, such as brothers and sisters, or parents with their other-gender children.

    Post edited by KickAir 8P on
  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,698
    edited October 2013


    And are we ever going to get back how in Genesis the nominally male and female morphs could be used together to help depict the widest range of humanity than had ever before been possible in this medium? People aren't all split into clear-cut male and female only, human gender dimorphism and expression are spectrums, and gouging out our ability to depict that after Genesis did it so well is a particularly nasty form of erasure. Never mind losing the simple ability to depict men and women who look similar to each other, such as brothers and sisters, or parents with their other-gender children.

    Funny you say that, because I actually have a rather feminine-looking male character on my G1 that I couldn't have accomplished properly without adding in some female shape...
    Post edited by RCDeschene on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,923
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_jared said:
    Hellboy said:
    Vaskania said:
    Hellboy said:
    We have all kind of HD ultra detailed creatures for “Genesis” 2 Female.
    But of course, we need a whole separate figure just for a human male because men and women are soooo different you need specific meshes.
    Sure. :roll:
    Genesis proved you didn’t need separate meshes and those HD Creatures morphs keeps proving it too.

    From a modeling stand-point G2F is better. You can better account for the female form in clothing than you could modeling around the Genesis base (would you create a woman's bra using Chuck Norris as a base? probably not).

    It worked for Genesis and I see no improvement on "G"F2 clothing (or anything else).

    It worked, but it was sure difficult. Just because something works doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.Personally I never had any difficulties working with Genesis, however improvement generally means overall if you are talking about improving on a figure and I don't believe that this has been achieved with GenF2 the loss of functionality was too great. I must admit I'm not a believer that the figure couldn't have been unisex and still had the same functionality...separating the genders is as far as I'm concerned strictly a business decision based on profit.

    Kattey said:
    We have all kind of HD ultra detailed creatures for “Genesis” 2 Female.
    But of course, we need a whole separate figure just for a human male because men and women are soooo different you need specific meshes.
    Sure. :roll:
    Genesis proved you didn’t need separate meshes and those HD Creatures morphs keeps proving it too.

    From a modeling stand-point G2F is better. You can better account for the female form in clothing than you could modeling around the Genesis base (would you create a woman's bra using Chuck Norris as a base? probably not).

    It worked for Genesis and I see no improvement on "G"F2 clothing (or anything else).

    It worked, but it was sure difficult. Just because something works doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.
    What about improving autofit so it could transfer custom bones like ghost handles? I'm asking because with split genders such functionality would be even more in demand and yet since DS 4 started I haven't seen any improvements in autofit area.

    I seem to recall a number of improvements in Autofit, most notably preserving morphs. I haven't tried G2F myself, but I've heard that Autofit has been further improved.Morphs were added in to autofit long before the release of G2F...I was happily using them from the implementation of 4.5 IIRC.

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,265
    edited December 1969

    Does anyone worried about cross-functionality even know yet whether the two figures, male and female, can even wear each others clothes or use each others textures? Or for that matter, whether morphs work universally between the two figures? No. Nobody here knows that. So much anger and frustration over a "problem" that may or may not even exist. If a person is not willing to wait and see before they start carrying pitchforks, then they are only complaining to be complaining. Why not enjoy G2F with the clothes and textures you already have? No need to spend more money than you are willing. And I am saying that as a vendor, PA, whatever you want to call me. If you don't want to buy for G2F, then just don't buy. There are still plenty of vendors willing and ready to create for Genesis, myself included. The lack of Genesis products lately could have a lot to do with the fact that several new shapes for G2F have come out pretty rapidly and we can only create so much at a time. Given the new shapes, many have chosen to create for them and have put other projects aside. Maybe when the new male comes out, there will be a surge of male items and the females will take a hit when it comes to new content. Then, eventually everything will level out again and products for everyone will start to emerge again. At least, this is my prediction. I know, from speaking to others, that many vendors still favor Genesis as much as you do. Myself, when I create something new, I will do everything I can to make it with Genesis in mind, either releasing a version that will autofit to Genesis 2 with little difficulty, or by producing both versions which, in my case, will go in the same package. That's not to say I will never create a Genesis 2 only product, but I will try to keep things equal. My most recent product, Dolled Up, not only works with Genesis and Genesis 2 Female, but also with V4, except the outfit which I designed to fit Genesis 1 so that it would autofit to Genesis 2. Making clothing for V4 is just something I won't do anymore. Too hard to rig.

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,300
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:


    Kattey said:

    What about improving autofit so it could transfer custom bones like ghost handles? I'm asking because with split genders such functionality would be even more in demand and yet since DS 4 started I haven't seen any improvements in autofit area.

    I seem to recall a number of improvements in Autofit, most notably preserving morphs. I haven't tried G2F myself, but I've heard that Autofit has been further improved.

    Morphs were added in to autofit long before the release of G2F...I was happily using them from the implementation of 4.5 IIRC.

    I didn't say it was. I was responding to Kattey's statement that she hadn't seen any improvements in autofit since DS4 started.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited October 2013

    Does anyone worried about cross-functionality even know yet whether the two figures, male and female, can even wear each others clothes or use each others textures?
    While there is no evidence yet, because G2F was very much hyped as gender-specific and I suspect G2M will be promoted in the same vein, I highly doubt that there will be built-in ways to fit one gender clothes and textures to another.
    Since G2F came out I haven't seen any M4 clones for her or M4 UVs, and even V4 clone + V4 UVs was vendor-made, not DAZ3D offered. Again, while it is possible that cross-clones would exist from the start, will be built-in and also work perfectly, the previous experience makes more plausible the situation when they won't or people, who want cross-functionality that Genesis had from zero point up, will have to buy addons to get the same functionality with 'Genesis' 2. It is just extrapolation of previous releases of course. I don't think anybody here said that it will be this way and this way only, but it isn't possible to completely disregard what we learnt from releases of the past.

    But even autofit clone isn't a perfect solution because any custom bones will be lost and autofit has a tendency to cling mesh to the body way too tightly. So even with cross-clones cross-functionality is still concern with clothes, comparatively to Genesis where there were no or less such problems. UV and morph cross-functionality appears even less brightly because the only UV transfers for G2F were 3rd party solutions and, unlike with morphs, there is no way to use DS embedded tools to make full UV template transfer (no, I'm not talking about maps transfer, - this is only for textures, - but about full UV remapping).

    Two figures means that vendor who'd want to make stuff for both will spend more time on each figure. And considering that male clothes are always a minority, given a choice between making female and making male clothes I firmly believe in according to my previous experience that all but a handful of vendors will make female clothes and won't bother with male variation.

    But even if case if everything works perfectly the concern for cross-gender still remains because with two different figures there is no way to create a figure that is both male and female or neither as easily as it was with Genesis.

    Making clothing for V4 is just something I won’t do anymore. Too hard to rig.


    This I agree with. Gen3/Gen4 grouping was the most tedious part of the process. Even rigging itself was less boring part.
    Post edited by Kattey on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:


    Kattey said:

    What about improving autofit so it could transfer custom bones like ghost handles? I'm asking because with split genders such functionality would be even more in demand and yet since DS 4 started I haven't seen any improvements in autofit area.

    I seem to recall a number of improvements in Autofit, most notably preserving morphs. I haven't tried G2F myself, but I've heard that Autofit has been further improved.

    Morphs were added in to autofit long before the release of G2F...I was happily using them from the implementation of 4.5 IIRC.

    I didn't say it was. I was responding to Kattey's statement that she hadn't seen any improvements in autofit since DS4 started.
    I wasn't aware that morphs weren't available since 4.0, but what I see (and what I was asking about) is the absence of improvement in autofit on custom bones and also clingwrapping. This wasn't improved since a very long time of DS 4+ it looks like to me that autofit fell victim to 'it works well enough as it is, there is no need for further improvement' mood.

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,265
    edited December 1969

    I'm not sure about custom bones improvement in autofit, though I do recall a couple of hairstyles with bones in the ponytails that do not carry the bones. I haven't tried recently. As for the body cling, it's not actually an autofit issue, but more the way triax figures and clothing work together. If you put a Genesis outfit on, which does not require autofit, the cling still happens when you dial in a shape. This is because the clothes are conforming to the underlying shape. Autofit or not, this happens. Which is the basis for some of the claims about Genesis 2 being better with the gender split, simply by saying that clothing can now be modeled on a base that already has breasts (or pecs, depending on the gender) and wider hips, etc. By modeling the breasts in, changes in the underlying body shape will have less clinging and less stretching of textures because the additional polygons are there for the breasts. Modeling a shirt over a flat Genesis chest, then suddenly injecting breasts will cause cling whether autofitted or not.

    Actually, the contrary should be true. Autofitting involves using clones to tell the clothing what shape and rigging to fit to. If the clone has breasts, the shirt will cling, but if the clone has breasts which already have the cleavage filled in, such as the breast fix and/or the dress fit products that are available, then the shirt will cling to that "improved" shape. The problem lies not in autofit, but in the clones that are made for said autofit. I know this personally, though I cannot yet be specific about how I know this.

    OT, I would like to add that I have seen a certain gallery on another site, and there are some very well done renders in there. That artist is talented at rendering, and had I seen more of that in this forum, I wouldn't have made comments that I made. I still wish we would not complain and flame about problems that don't yet exist, but I do see your point on looking at history for reactions. I just say, wait and see, please. Maybe some of your concerns will be unwarranted, and then again maybe some will still exist. The V4 to Genesis 2 being 3rd party, for example. That can't be fixed. DAZ made Genesis 2 backward compatible with Genesis to a degree, and I don't know if it's fair to demand complete backward compatibility for free. It is a huge amount of work to make generation 4 work with a new figure. Again, I know this personally.

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,865
    edited October 2013

    Slosh said:
    . . . My most recent product, Dolled Up, not only works with Genesis and Genesis 2 Female, but also with V4, except the outfit which I designed to fit Genesis 1 so that it would autofit to Genesis 2.
    And much appreciated!

    .
    Slosh said:
    Does anyone worried about cross-functionality even know yet whether the two figures, male and female, can even wear each others clothes or use each others textures? Or for that matter, whether morphs work universally between the two figures? No. Nobody here knows that. So much anger and frustration over a "problem" that may or may not even exist. If a person is not willing to wait and see before they start carrying pitchforks, then they are only complaining to be complaining . . .

    On the contrary, this is itself a huge part of the issue, that we have to wait, four months now, when thanks to Genesis those bad ol' days were supposed to be over and done. This problem exists now, and we're deliberatly kept ignorant of how well the related issues are being handled.

    .
    . . . Why not enjoy G2F with the clothes and textures you already have? . . .
    Look at my join date. Now think about how much money I've probably spent on clothes'n'such for Genesis on back in that time, for products you just suggested I should shrug off in favor of "enjoying" G2F with fresh-bought. Think about how you'd feel if someone outside of the 3D content market who wanted your continued business said the equivalent to you. Think about what you would do. At absolute minimum, would you try to communicate your wants and needs as a customer, try to communicate why the direction they were moving in was a problem for you? No, we don't have to use G2X, but those of us committed to this medium for whatever reasons have to move on to the latest generation to get the most advanced features or remain with the previous ones while support atrophies and conversion efforts become more draining. For the last four months, G2X hasn't met my needs anywhere near as well as Genesis does. I want that to change. If DAZ wants my continued business and the business of those like me, if DAZ doesn't want even more of us to simply give up and let our personally expensive disappointment poison everything we ever post about them and this industry when the subject of cg art comes up? It's gonna change.
    Post edited by KickAir 8P on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited October 2013

    Slosh said:
    By modeling the breasts in, changes in the underlying body shape will have less clinging and less stretching of textures because the additional polygons are there for the breasts.
    But with the other hand, any breast morphs in G2F will cause same sort of clinging if there were no custom morphs created for this particular shape to overwrite autofitting. So I'd say this is definitely something that has to be improved and gender-specific models offer only partial solution to this problem while creating much more burden in other aspects. And what is especially embittering to me, is that the too many vendors don't even use that added gender functionality, and model fabric clung to breasts even on default shapes, making the whole split figure thing to look even more wasteful.

    If the clone has breasts, the shirt will cling, but if the clone has breasts which already have the cleavage filled in, such as the breast fix and/or the dress fit products that are available, then the shirt will cling to that "improved" shape.
    Yes but nobody had made such clones as far as I'm aware, even SickleYield who is very crafty with clones. I've tried to make some but it didn't work that way on longer run and when I've started to change breast areas the clothes started to behave strangely. This calls for an alternative projection/confirming method or something like that and it should be done with core DS software, I believe.
    Or let us made clothified dynamics things, like Poser users can. This would fix a lot of problems at once - better fitting, cross-use, reverse and backward comparability use, etc. But DS doesn't seem to develop in this way at all, sadly. HD is nice but I'd rather have clothify.

    I just say, wait and see, please.
    I have nothing against wait and see. It is only when people start to claim that G2F is a best thing after sliced bread I have to provide proofs that this isn't true from too many angles of view. Because this isn't true from too many angles of view, but untruth too many times repeated and not repelled tend to become truth in perception of people.
    The V4 to Genesis 2 being 3rd party, for example. That can't be fixed.

    DAZ3D could have bought the product from MallenLane and include it in core V6 DOs bundles like they did with all other content of V6 bundles. At least if it was a DO, PC members would have something to spend their coupon on so it could have been easier on quite many end users. It would look like DAZ3D cared for backward comparability even if they'd charged for it. But this didn't happen.

    DAZ made Genesis 2 backward compatible with Genesis to a degree, and I don't know if it's fair to demand complete backward compatibility for free.


    But they put so much love and hope and effort in Genesis with all those custom UVs and clones for previous generations and even iconic shapes later (I have all of them I think) and tools that allow all those things like Bone Adjustment that G2F feels very scrapped and bare-boned as a result, - no new tech especially for her, no new tech at all - and because of that, with very tenuous improvements like 'gender-specific' rigging it felt very cash-grabby to me upon release. Not saying it was, but this is how it felt then and keeps on feeling now.

    It is a huge amount of work to make generation 4 work with a new figure. Again, I know this personally.
    Clones are relatively easy with proper software and some skill. Morphs are manageable from my experience - about 90% are more or less easy, 10% would require detailed manual adjustment. For UV transfer right now there is no comfortable way and this is where we could benefit from DAZ3D created tools because honestly I'm quite tired to pay for 3rd party solutions which only work on one-to-next generation at best or, like in case with MallenLane's product, just on one figure at all. I want a unified tool I can comfortably use in DS to adjust my own content to my own needs (and no, it isn't MapTransfer).

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • ghosty12ghosty12 Posts: 792
    edited December 1969

    Well for me I I use Genesis 1 for V4/M4 when needed and G2F for everything else. ;)

  • surrealitysurreality Posts: 0
    edited October 2013

    Slosh said:
    . . . Why not enjoy G2F with the clothes and textures you already have? . . .

    Look at my join date. Now think about how much money I've probably spent on clothes'n'such for Genesis on back in that time, for products you just suggested I should shrug off in favor of "enjoying" G2F with fresh-bought. Think about how you'd feel if someone outside of the 3D content market who wanted your continued business said the equivalent to you. Think about what you would do.

    I suspect there is a miscommunication somewhere in here; the suggestion was to use G2F with existing G1 textures and clothes, not to scrap them all and buy new ones, as indicated by the sentences that immediately follow: "No need to spend more money than you are willing." and "If you don’t want to buy for G2F, then just don’t buy." It's quite the opposite of ignoring one's invested-in content in favor of new purchases. :)

    Post edited by surreality on
  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,265
    edited December 1969

    Slosh said:
    . . . My most recent product, Dolled Up, not only works with Genesis and Genesis 2 Female, but also with V4, except the outfit which I designed to fit Genesis 1 so that it would autofit to Genesis 2.
    And much appreciated!

    .
    Slosh said:
    Does anyone worried about cross-functionality even know yet whether the two figures, male and female, can even wear each others clothes or use each others textures? Or for that matter, whether morphs work universally between the two figures? No. Nobody here knows that. So much anger and frustration over a "problem" that may or may not even exist. If a person is not willing to wait and see before they start carrying pitchforks, then they are only complaining to be complaining . . .

    On the contrary, this is itself a huge part of the issue, that we have to wait, four months now, when thanks to Genesis those bad ol' days were supposed to be over and done. This problem exists now, and we're deliberatly kept ignorant of how well the related issues are being handled.

    .
    . . . Why not enjoy G2F with the clothes and textures you already have? . . .

    Look at my join date. Now think about how much money I've probably spent on clothes'n'such for Genesis on back in that time, for products you just suggested I should shrug off in favor of "enjoying" G2F with fresh-bought. Think about how you'd feel if someone outside of the 3D content market who wanted your continued business said the equivalent to you. Think about what you would do.

    At absolute minimum, would you try to communicate your wants and needs as a customer, try to communicate why the direction they were moving in was a problem for you? No, we don't have to use G2X, but those of us committed to this medium for whatever reasons have to move on to the latest generation to get the most advanced features or remain with the previous ones while support atrophies and conversion efforts become more draining.

    For the last four months, G2X hasn't met my needs anywhere near as well as Genesis does. I want that to change. If DAZ wants my continued business and the business of those like me, if DAZ doesn't want even more of us to simply give up and let our personally expensive disappointment poison everything we ever post about them and this industry when the subject of cg art comes up? It's gonna change.

    The second part of your reply, where you mention all the Genesis clothes you have bought over time... re-read what I said and what you quoted. I am not suggesting you shrug off your past purchases in favor of G2F with fresh bought. Totally the opposite. I am suggesting you enjoy G2F with your past purchases "clothes and textures you already have". Just thought I'd clarify that.

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