Genesis 2 is not Genesis

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Comments

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,865
    edited October 2013

    Slosh said:
    The second part of your reply, where you mention all the Genesis clothes you have bought over time... re-read what I said and what you quoted. I am not suggesting you shrug off your past purchases in favor of G2F with fresh bought. Totally the opposite. I am suggesting you enjoy G2F with your past purchases "clothes and textures you already have". Just thought I'd clarify that.

    Whoops! Thought you were saying why not enjoy G2F with the G2F clothes and textures I have. Sorry. :red:
    Post edited by KickAir 8P on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited October 2013

    Well, the further I go the less I have any need in pretty pretty girls and G2F as she is now, can't give me the female or even female-like shapes I need, so I need either to transfer morphs from Genesis (but why not use Genesis with G2F rigging then even if I want G2F rigging?) or sculpt them manually (but again, why not just use Genesis then?). Using Genesis clothes with G2F due to underlying way in which such transfer would work, will lose all custom bones (not always applicable), and cause tighter clingwrapping, distorting clothes (always applicable), especially high collars. Without spending money I can't use skins I need or at all (if this is some creature texture with M4 mapping). So I just can't use G2F because she has nothing to offer to my needs and I'm saying this in the most technical way possible. Toes are nice, I always admit that, but again, if I'm rendering something with that amount of exposed skin that requires toes to be bare and poseable, I can transfer the rigging back to Genesis and use the hybrid instead with all native morphs and textures support.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,935
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:


    Kattey said:

    What about improving autofit so it could transfer custom bones like ghost handles? I'm asking because with split genders such functionality would be even more in demand and yet since DS 4 started I haven't seen any improvements in autofit area.

    I seem to recall a number of improvements in Autofit, most notably preserving morphs. I haven't tried G2F myself, but I've heard that Autofit has been further improved.

    Morphs were added in to autofit long before the release of G2F...I was happily using them from the implementation of 4.5 IIRC.

    I didn't say it was. I was responding to Kattey's statement that she hadn't seen any improvements in autofit since DS4 started.Aah..in that case I misread. Sorry...I just get tired of people criticizing autofit.

  • ElowanElowan Posts: 388
    edited December 1969

    After perusing this thread I am still confused. Are V6 and M6 Gen2 or what? I don't see Gen2 as a basic char in the store, And yes I've had a full dose of omega3 today.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 30,105
    edited December 1969

    Genesis 2 is free with DS 4.6. There are now 2 Genesis starter Essentials packs in your product library, one called Genesis Starter Essentials and one called genesis 2 Starter essentials. The 2nd one contains G2F and G2M

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 7,444
    edited December 1969

    Elowan said:
    After perusing this thread I am still confused. Are V6 and M6 Gen2 or what? I don't see Gen2 as a basic char in the store, And yes I've had a full dose of omega3 today.

    Genesis 2 female and genesis 2 male both come with DS4.6, just re-download the content to get the male version. V6 and M6 are addon characters for Genesis 2

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 52,192
    edited December 1969

    There are two base figures, Genesis 2 Female and Genesis 2 Male, for which, respectively, Victoria 6 and Michael 6 are add-on shapes. The bases are included with DAZ Studio and the DSON Importer for Poser.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    There are two base figures, Genesis 2 Female and Genesis 2 Male, for which, respectively, Victoria 6 and Michael 6 are add-on shapes. The bases are included with DAZ Studio and the DSON Importer for Poser.
    And Carrara 8.5
  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 744
    edited December 1969

    Hehe my confusion continues unabated.

    From the store:

    "The Genesis 2 Cross-Figure Resource Kit provides the tools and information that enable developers to create conforming content that allows being 'Fit to' more than a single supporting figure possible in DAZ Studio. For example, a single item that is intended for use on Genesis 2 Female(s) that can also (optionally) be used on Genesis 2 Male."

    Wait, wait, didn't we have to move on to genesis 2 male and genesis 2 female as being separate because no one wanted the one-clothes-fits-both feature anymore as it was too problematic?

    No issue with this product, mind you, Im sure its splendid, Im just getting confused as to why we went from 1 figure to 2...

  • TheWheelManTheWheelMan Posts: 1,014
    edited December 1969

    Hehe my confusion continues unabated.

    From the store:

    "The Genesis 2 Cross-Figure Resource Kit provides the tools and information that enable developers to create conforming content that allows being 'Fit to' more than a single supporting figure possible in DAZ Studio. For example, a single item that is intended for use on Genesis 2 Female(s) that can also (optionally) be used on Genesis 2 Male."

    Wait, wait, didn't we have to move on to genesis 2 male and genesis 2 female as being separate because no one wanted the one-clothes-fits-both feature anymore as it was too problematic?

    No issue with this product, mind you, Im sure its splendid, Im just getting confused as to why we went from 1 figure to 2...

    It was never said that "o one wanted the one-clothes-fits-both feature anymore," but having the separate male and female figures is supposed to be easier to create clothing for. Also, no one "had to move on" from one to the other. The first Genesis still works just fine and that's why there are products to enable cross compatibility. The new Genesis 2 models are not replacements for the original, just new options with improved aspects that only work best with dedicated male and female models.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,935
    edited December 1969

    Hehe my confusion continues unabated.

    From the store:

    "The Genesis 2 Cross-Figure Resource Kit provides the tools and information that enable developers to create conforming content that allows being 'Fit to' more than a single supporting figure possible in DAZ Studio. For example, a single item that is intended for use on Genesis 2 Female(s) that can also (optionally) be used on Genesis 2 Male."

    Wait, wait, didn't we have to move on to genesis 2 male and genesis 2 female as being separate because no one wanted the one-clothes-fits-both feature anymore as it was too problematic?

    No issue with this product, mind you, Im sure its splendid, Im just getting confused as to why we went from 1 figure to 2...

    Lol...same thing crossed my mind. Also noticed they finally released the legacy shapes for both sexes...does anyone know if the include a clone for autofit.

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 6,208
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Hehe my confusion continues unabated.

    From the store:

    "The Genesis 2 Cross-Figure Resource Kit provides the tools and information that enable developers to create conforming content that allows being 'Fit to' more than a single supporting figure possible in DAZ Studio. For example, a single item that is intended for use on Genesis 2 Female(s) that can also (optionally) be used on Genesis 2 Male."

    Wait, wait, didn't we have to move on to genesis 2 male and genesis 2 female as being separate because no one wanted the one-clothes-fits-both feature anymore as it was too problematic?

    No issue with this product, mind you, Im sure its splendid, Im just getting confused as to why we went from 1 figure to 2...

    Lol...same thing crossed my mind. Also noticed they finally released the legacy shapes for both sexes...does anyone know if the include a clone for autofit.

    No - no Autofit clone no UVs

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,935
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Hehe my confusion continues unabated.

    From the store:

    "The Genesis 2 Cross-Figure Resource Kit provides the tools and information that enable developers to create conforming content that allows being 'Fit to' more than a single supporting figure possible in DAZ Studio. For example, a single item that is intended for use on Genesis 2 Female(s) that can also (optionally) be used on Genesis 2 Male."

    Wait, wait, didn't we have to move on to genesis 2 male and genesis 2 female as being separate because no one wanted the one-clothes-fits-both feature anymore as it was too problematic?

    No issue with this product, mind you, Im sure its splendid, Im just getting confused as to why we went from 1 figure to 2...

    Lol...same thing crossed my mind. Also noticed they finally released the legacy shapes for both sexes...does anyone know if the include a clone for autofit.

    No - no Autofit clone no UVsso basically only useful if using gen x?

    Not much point to it then...

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 6,208
    edited December 1969

    I have to admit I'm struggling to see why I need this if GenX for G2 was already released and I could see that I would need this then fine but why won't GenX be able to transfer the legacy shapes its self, I already have V4 and M4 for G2, I'm really only interested in Aiko and Hiro, and possible the Freak? I'm really on the fence about this one.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,495
    edited December 1969

    I have to admit I'm struggling to see why I need this if GenX for G2 was already released and I could see that I would need this then fine but why won't GenX be able to transfer the legacy shapes its self, I already have V4 and M4 for G2, I'm really only interested in Aiko and Hiro, and possible the Freak? I'm really on the fence about this one.

    I believe Dimension3D said that GenX2, like GenX will only transfer deltas, which means you will need to have the target shape in Genesis 2 or Genesis 1. If that's the case then you would only be able to transfer Gen3-Gen5 shapes back and forth... probably not the Gen6 ones, unless they're based from Sickleyields auto fit clone, but that would require the end user to adjust rigging for anything other than the base G2M and G2F.

  • cecilia.robinsoncecilia.robinson Posts: 2,208
    edited December 1969

    GigaBeat said:
    My thinking is as that Genesis should be kept for toon & monster creatures as ultra-realism is not required for those figures. Genesis versatility makes it so awesome to dial up many different toons and beasties shapes and have clothes auto-fit them. Then there's Genesis 2 for the ultra-realistic human forms demanded by a few artists and possibly animators. Game engines require reduced resolution figure so I don't see how they will gain from Genesis 2. Also I don't think hobbyist (like myself) care a hoot about ultra-realism. This is why I feel Genesis 2 was released far too early as many tweaks still need to be done for the ultra-realism. I feel, as others have said, the loss of sales for DAZ from the Poser community not adopting Genesis probably hurt Daz enough to release Genesis 2 earlier than it really should be. Anyhoot, once again, that's just speculation on my part, but I feel quite plausible. Hopefully content creators will keep supporting the uni-mesh of Genesis, but only time and sales figures will tell. Sigh!

    GigaBeat is right. In my humble opinion, Genesis is a dream come true for people who focus on fantasy renders*.

    *Remember as a researcher on the subject I stick to an unpopular among many renderers definition that fantasy does NOT equal smexy fetish etc. Bearing that in mind, we can proceed.

    Gen2F and Gen2M as I imagine are mostly appreciated by pinupers, people needing ultra realistic humans for fashion design or medicine-oriented stuff (it is rather weird there is no anatomy-related bundle for them like for V4 and M4). But trust me, elves for example created on them kind of suck in comparison to Creature Creator. V4 and M4 ones are much better than they are. The same with most kids made for them I see. When you custom-dial a child for Gen2F, she has weird nasal areas. So for the time being, I stick to Genesis with switches to V4 for Thorne's cutie pies :).

    I wonder when Gen2K (Genesis 2 Kid) comes out, that might besomething interesting. On another hand, all skimpwear-producing vendors are bound to be dissatisfied.

  • TrollgoblinTrollgoblin Posts: 22
    edited February 2014

    Okay... after some reading up, trying to learn more about Daz and the compatibility of Gen1 and Gen2, as well as the stuff that comes out for what... I got seriously conpuzzled, but this thread kind of helped a lot.

    It looks like I'll be focussing on G1/M5/V5 more then G2/M6/V6 for now, eventhough I see gorgeous results from M6.
    I mostly make male characters, so reading about the 'lack of Men' kind of put a frown on my brow.

    I loved the duality of Genesis 1.
    I really hope Genesis 3 will indeed be converted into EVERYTHING... I can use a good axolotl genesis.
    Or maybe... a good genesis giraffe. ;)

    Oh.. yes.
    And the lack of Creature Creator 2 for G2-Men also irks enough to focus on Genesis 1 first. *Nods*

    Post edited by Trollgoblin on
  • Faeryl WomynFaeryl Womyn Posts: 1,201
    edited December 1969

    The difference between G1 and G2 is simple.

    Genesis1 comes with male, female and child, you only need one set of morph packages applicable to all three, you do not need to buy two products to make Gen4 clothes fit and two more products to make Gen4 textures work, and what recently made me decide on G1 only is character morphs with textures are cheaper.

    Genesis2 has separated figures, which is fine since I went through all that with Gen3 and Gen4, but being separate means they require two sets (so far) of morph packages and four products to make Gen4 clothes and textures fit. Added to that, G2 now has Gia and Olympia which are $40 character sets (a price I'm not willing to pay for a morph and textures), and vendors are jumping on these characters band wagon, so less is made for just Genesis2 figures. Oh I almost forgot the HD versions for Genesis2 figures and just as expensive.

    Genesis3 can stay on the drawing board, I am not going to buy a whole new set of products for a new model, when I haven't finished buying for Genesis1

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,489
    edited December 1969

    being separate means they require two sets (so far) of morph packages and four products to make Gen4 clothes and textures fit.

    Not entirely true as far as clothes go. You can use Genesis as an interim figure. Autofit the V4 or M4 outfit to Genesis and then convert the now-genesis clothing to Genesis 2. While this double-autofit is more likely to cause artefacts than normal, for simple items like shirts and pants or similar close-fitting items it should be unnoticeable.

    The rest of your arguments are certainly fair though, and I won't dispute the fact that it's a bigger investment than Genesis would be. The tradeoff here is realism versus economy though. The new figures are a lot more detailed than Genesis and, in my opinion, clearly the superior of the two in terms of rigging and bends. They're also easier to work with from a development standpoint, so in general that means better support from PAs and less time needed to develop new content.

    Genesis 2 won't be the miracle panacea to your modelling woes, and less so to your bank balance, but I have few reservations paying more for that extra bit of detail.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,495
    edited February 2014

    Okay... after some reading up, trying to learn more about Daz and the compatibility of Gen1 and Gen2, as well as the stuff that comes out for what... I got seriously conpuzzled, but this thread kind of helped a lot.

    It looks like I'll be focussing on G1/M5/V5 more then G2/M6/V6 for now, eventhough I see gorgeous results from M6.
    I mostly make male characters, so reading about the 'lack of Men' kind of put a frown on my brow.

    I don't think there's been a lack of men considering some of the releases from the last few weeks, and my contribution today. If you focus on making male characters, then you probably should be focused on G2/M6 now because you kind of missed the G1/M5 wave with G2's arrival. As a PA that produced a lot of male items for Genesis 1, with the advancements in G2 (and the sales), I'm done with G1 for the foreseeable future (especially with the lackluster sales I had with my last G1 male product). I have several products in the pipeline now, so G2M will be well represented in the near future as I start filling in the blanks of what's needed for the figure.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 2,819
    edited December 1969

    the price point for Gen2/V6 is a little rich for me right now. If Daz made a base figure less expensive I'd be inclined to invest in more content for it.V4/M4 were free and there was an absolute explosion of content for them and outside of Daz3D there is no signs I've seen of that content disappearing. A hobbyist could DL those models and make smaller investments to build the library instead of to get a base figure and the HD morphs to bring it to it's full potential at the price they're asking. I'm not saying V6 is not worth what they're asking, I'm asking are hobbyists willing to pay that.

  • TimbalesTimbales Posts: 1,524
    edited December 1969

    the price point for Gen2/V6 is a little rich for me right now. If Daz made a base figure less expensive I'd be inclined to invest in more content for it.V4/M4 were free and there was an absolute explosion of content for them and outside of Daz3D there is no signs I've seen of that content disappearing. A hobbyist could DL those models and make smaller investments to build the library instead of to get a base figure and the HD morphs to bring it to it's full potential at the price they're asking. I'm not saying V6 is not worth what they're asking, I'm asking are hobbyists willing to pay that.

    I understand where you're coming from. For me, it's about balance. Before I buy something new - clothing, a character, a figure - I think about how much potential use I'm going to get out of it. When the Gen X utility came out, it really made Genesis the most versatile figure imaginable. When the Gen X 2 upgrade comes out, there will be even more options.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,495
    edited December 1969

    the price point for Gen2/V6 is a little rich for me right now. If Daz made a base figure less expensive I'd be inclined to invest in more content for it.V4/M4 were free and there was an absolute explosion of content for them and outside of Daz3D there is no signs I've seen of that content disappearing.

    V4/M4 is no longer free though. The Genesis 2 base is though, and there have been products made for that directly, including two of my products. There's also a lot of freebies for it if you look on sharecg.

    A hobbyist could DL those models and make smaller investments to build the library instead of to get a base figure and the HD morphs to bring it to it's full potential at the price they're asking. I'm not saying V6 is not worth what they're asking, I'm asking are hobbyists willing to pay that.

    From the sales I've heard from other PAs and the sales I've seen so far, I think they are. Buying content isn't a cheap hobby, however, people will pay for things they feel are worth the price.

  • SylvanSylvan Posts: 2,413
    edited December 1969

    Is there any cheap hobby out there at all XD
    Always a thrill when I check the site for updates or fancy coupons!

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 2,819
    edited December 1969

    Estroyer said:
    Is there any cheap hobby out there at all XD
    Always a thrill when I check the site for updates or fancy coupons!


    No. I started 3D modeling because have you priced an American guitar lately?
    I have some freelance work coming up and I plan to use that money for content and while Gen1 did not blow me away Gen2/V6 is really piqued my interest again.

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 6,023
    edited December 1969

    Estroyer said:
    Is there any cheap hobby out there at all XD

    There are people who collect belly button lint. That's a pretty cheap hobby unless you're a nudist.
  • ServantServant Posts: 704
    edited December 1969

    the price point for Gen2/V6 is a little rich for me right now. If Daz made a base figure less expensive I'd be inclined to invest in more content for it.V4/M4 were free and there was an absolute explosion of content for them and outside of Daz3D there is no signs I've seen of that content disappearing. A hobbyist could DL those models and make smaller investments to build the library instead of to get a base figure and the HD morphs to bring it to it's full potential at the price they're asking. I'm not saying V6 is not worth what they're asking, I'm asking are hobbyists willing to pay that.

    V4/M4 will still have supporters, of course. It's tried and tested. However, these models also don't have triax weight-mapping built-in which is a huge factor in how well they work compared to G1. They're also still more expensive than G1 before you can get going with them (with regard to the packs that you need to purchase). Moreover, they aren't going to be developed further in terms of improving what's under the hood. While G1 might not get the attention from the parent company as G2 is anymore, it doesn't really need a lot of improvements at this point. Yet, there's still so much potential in it that there are PAs still finding something new and worthwhile (Zev0 and Joe Quick, for instance).

    Sure, there are hobbyists willing to pay for the small posing improvements (let's be honest: the additional bends aren't THAT monumental in terms of improvement). But I can't say they're must haves. And in terms of cost-effectiveness and versatility, G2 isn't winning awards in those departments vs. G1. However, it really boils down to how much bang do you want for your buck as well as how soon you want to invest. G2 is still in the early stages and there aren't tons of content available yet. Investing in it now isn't a bad thing (certainly the discounted sets can be enticing). But having experience with both G1 and G2, I can't say it's worthwhile as of this point in time to focus on G2, when I can get more out of G1 for my money's worth.

  • starionwolfstarionwolf Posts: 3,184
    edited December 1969

    the price point for Gen2/V6 is a little rich for me right now. If Daz made a base figure less expensive I'd be inclined to invest in more content for it.

    Genesis 2 starter essentials is free. It is included with the free purchase of Daz Studio 4.6 pro. http://www.daz3d.com/products/daz-studio/daz-studio-what-is-daz-studio

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  • ServantServant Posts: 704
    edited February 2014

    the price point for Gen2/V6 is a little rich for me right now. If Daz made a base figure less expensive I'd be inclined to invest in more content for it.

    Genesis 2 starter essentials is free. It is included with the free purchase of Daz Studio 4.6 pro. http://www.daz3d.com/products/daz-studio/daz-studio-what-is-daz-studio

    Probably meant the necessary products and sets (evo morphs, V6/M6, etc.) as the G2 starter essentials don't offer that much out of the box.

    Post edited by Servant on
  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 6,023
    edited December 1969

    BorgyB said:
    the price point for Gen2/V6 is a little rich for me right now. If Daz made a base figure less expensive I'd be inclined to invest in more content for it.

    Genesis 2 starter essentials is free. It is included with the free purchase of Daz Studio 4.6 pro. http://www.daz3d.com/products/daz-studio/daz-studio-what-is-daz-studio

    Probably meant the necessary products and sets (evo morphs, V6/M6, etc.) as the G2 starter essentials don't offer that much out of the box.
    None of those are actually necessary. Get Sickleyield's conversion of DieTrying's 182 Morphs for Gen 2 F and Gen 2-M and you'll have almost as many morphs as than you get with the V4.2 Morphs++ set.

    I do have to say that I find that a lot of the thoughts on V4 seem to be through rose-colored glasses. Yes, there was a period where she was free, but never the full version,and that was after a good length of time in which you had to buy everything separately, including her skin. Whereas G2-F and G2-M have shipped, free, with full skin sets, hair, basic clothing and poses, plus a set and some props. And those of us who went through the Gen3 to Gen4 transition can remember the same kind of comments about V3 relative to V4, the difference being that back then we really were looking at having to buy all new everything except hair sets. Yet, despite all the grousing, Gen 3's basically gone except for some A3 afficionados. So while the Poser-centric certainly may have had their reasons to kvetch during the initial roll out of Genesis, I think that, on the whole, the two Genesis transitions have been more than fair to the user base given that we've been able to use most of the previous generation's textures and clothing straight out the box.

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