dForce, dWeight and dWardrobe. Chronicles of...

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  • sueyasueya Posts: 767

    Has anyone succeeded in getting Merimay for Genesis 2 females to work with dForce? It explodes when I use it. My Gravity in set to 0.5 and Self collide is off on the skirts

  • Aave NainenAave Nainen Posts: 1,107
    sueya said:

    Has anyone succeeded in getting Merimay for Genesis 2 females to work with dForce? It explodes when I use it. My Gravity in set to 0.5 and Self collide is off on the skirts

    First thing I would suggest is turn Bending Stiffness way down, to .15 or even lower.  There really shouldn't be a need to turn self collision off at all, nor should you need to mess with gravity settings.  Load your figure, add the dress, add dForce modifier to the dress.  Use surface settings to reduce or turn off simulation strength on upper garment.  I use timeline simulation on all my sims and start from memorized pose.  Other than setting simulation to timeline versus Current frame you really shouldn't need to touch any other simulation settings, use the simulation surfaces instead to adjust how the skirt behaves.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    edited May 2021
    sueya said:

    Has anyone succeeded in getting Merimay for Genesis 2 females to work with dForce? It explodes when I use it. My Gravity in set to 0.5 and Self collide is off on the skirts

    I'm sorry it's taken so long to get back to you @sueya. I've been testing the Merimay dress for you, although I used G3F.

    First, I'd like to thank Aave Nainen for stopping by and sharing the best settings to use with the dress. I can attest to the fact leaving Bend Stiffness in the default position will result in an explosion every time!

    Turning Self Collide to Off was pretty much a given when dForce was first released. If even one vertex intersected the mesh, either from itself or another object, the darn thing would explode. From what I've seen, that was one of the first bugs Daz fixed. Anyway, I've been able to successfully run simulations with it on, and sometimes find the results preferrable.

    The skirt of the Merimay dress does not conform to the pose. For this reason, it is actually necessary to have the figure in the default T-Pose, (or A-Pose for G8,) or the sim will begin with the legs outside of the skirt, and it will not properly drape. You can do this using Current Frame and Start from Memorized Pose, but like Aave, I use the timeline, and I recommend it for a number of reasons.

    I seldom use fewer than 46 frames, with the default pose at Frame 0 and the target pose usually at Frame 30. The time between Frame 30 and the end of the animation allows the drape to settle, and you can choose to use the drape anywhere along the timeline. Using Current Frame, you are "stuck" with the drape when the simulation ended. And if something doesn't quite fall right, you can alter the pose as needed between Frame 0 and Frame 30, (or wherever you put the target pose,) to improve the drape.

    Also, it isn't necessary to Start from Memorized Pose when using the Animated Timeline. I still start with the figure in the T or A pose most of the time, but occasionally, it comes in handy to move a body part out of the way. For example, I used Draupadi for my tests, and her feet are apparently larger than G3F, and got caught in the skirt. I was able to prevent that by bending her feet in Frame 0.

    It's important to note, the best feature of the Merimay Dress, using transmaps to dictate the style, is also an impediment to using dForce. Up to a point. The dress itself has a high necked collar, long sleeves and a floor length skirt. Add some shaders and you've got a very elegant dress. But… dForce isn't going to respect that transmap, from what I've been able to see while testing the Merimay Dress. I have some closeups to show you what the straps do in the back, with the Daring 02 style applied from the Christmas freebie, Double Dare for Merimay Dress. Although I did use an extreme, dance pose. Here are the images. clicking on the image, or the forum generated link below it, will open the image full-size in a new window.

    Specifics: Draupadi; Classical Dance Pose 03; Messy Bun Hair; Merimay Dress for G3F; Slippers from Fayre for G3F; Shimmer Iray Shaders.

    Image 01

    Image 01: The full dress. This pose stretched the skirt, not draping it as you see here. To achieve the drape, the figure was rotated to her side during the animation, so the skirt was able to ride up her legs.

    Image 02

    Image 02: This is the same simulation as Image 01. All I've done is hide the Sleeves and the Lower section of the skirt from Surfaces->Editor.

    Image 03

    Image 03: A new simulation, same animation, with the Sleeves hidden during the simulation. It wasn't possible to hide the lower section of the skirt, via the Surfaces->Editor or the Geometry Editor Tool. The hidden surface doesn't simulate and the connecting polygons get stretched.

    Image 04

    Image 04: A new file, same animation, with Sleeves and the Lower section of the skirt deleted via the Geometry Editor Tool, and the Daring 02 style applied prior to the simulation.

    Image 05Image 06

    Images 05 and 06: You can really see the how the "straps" of the dress have moved up and away from the body. As far as I can tell, it's because dForce "sees" the complete material zone.

    Image 07

    Image 07: The back of the dress without the transmap. The folds on the back are actually very nice, but you can see why the "straps" aren't lying against the skin.

    The drape of the skirt, in my opinion, is not as flattering in the second series. I used the same animation, which compensated for the longer skirt.

    I like the dress and how it drapes, but it does give mixed results. As long as you're not trying for an extreme pose like the one I chose, you should get decent results and still be able to use the Designer Packs. Just do the drape first, and then apply the Style/Design.

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • Worlds_EdgeWorlds_Edge Posts: 2,088

    I’m going to have to dive into dforce but um scared lol. The dforce bed is awesome because it is so easy. Anyway thank you for this thread. I’m in the middle of other things but might dive into this next weekend. 

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    I’m going to have to dive into dforce but um scared lol. The dforce bed is awesome because it is so easy. Anyway thank you for this thread. I’m in the middle of other things but might dive into this next weekend. 

    No rush, @Worlds_Edge. This thread isn't going anywhere. It'll be here when you're ready to tackle dForce. And I'll always do my best to answer any questions you have.

  • sueyasueya Posts: 767

    Thanks for your advice Here is my first attempt with the Meri May dress

    MeriMaydforce1.jpg
    504 x 816 - 162K
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    sueya said:

    Thanks for your advice Here is my first attempt with the Meri May dress

    Looking good!

    Was it easier or harder than you expected, after lowering the Bend Stiffness? And did you use the Animated Timeline?

  • sueyasueya Posts: 767
    L'Adair said:
    sueya said:

    Thanks for your advice Here is my first attempt with the Meri May dress

    Looking good!

    Was it easier or harder than you expected, after lowering the Bend Stiffness? And did you use the Animated Timeline?

    It was quite easy after lowering the bend stiffness. My PC crashed when I tried using the timeline so I had to do the single frame instead.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    sueya said:
    L'Adair said:
    sueya said:

    Thanks for your advice Here is my first attempt with the Meri May dress

    Looking good!

    Was it easier or harder than you expected, after lowering the Bend Stiffness? And did you use the Animated Timeline?

    It was quite easy after lowering the bend stiffness. My PC crashed when I tried using the timeline so I had to do the single frame instead.

    I'm sorry to hear that. Did you try more than once? I'm curious if your computer crashes every time you try to use the timeline. Without the timeline, you'll be limited in what poses you can use and get a decent a result.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,513

    I'm never going to get caught up...

  • Aave NainenAave Nainen Posts: 1,107
    L'Adair said:
    sueya said:

    Has anyone succeeded in getting Merimay for Genesis 2 females to work with dForce? It explodes when I use it. My Gravity in set to 0.5 and Self collide is off on the skirts

    I'm sorry it's taken so long to get back to you @sueya. I've been testing the Merimay dress for you, although I used G3F.

    First, I'd like to thank Aave Nainen for stopping by and sharing the best settings to use with the dress. I can attest to the fact leaving Bend Stiffness in the default position will result in an explosion every time!

    Turning Self Collide to Off was pretty much a given when dForce was first released. If even one vertex intersected the mesh, either from itself or another object, the darn thing would explode. From what I've seen, that was one of the first bugs Daz fixed. Anyway, I've been able to successfully run simulations with it on, and sometimes find the results preferrable.

    The skirt of the Merimay dress does not conform to the pose. For this reason, it is actually necessary to have the figure in the default T-Pose, (or A-Pose for G8,) or the sim will begin with the legs outside of the skirt, and it will not properly drape. You can do this using Current Frame and Start from Memorized Pose, but like Aave, I use the timeline, and I recommend it for a number of reasons.

    I seldom use fewer than 46 frames, with the default pose at Frame 0 and the target pose usually at Frame 30. The time between Frame 30 and the end of the animation allows the drape to settle, and you can choose to use the drape anywhere along the timeline. Using Current Frame, you are "stuck" with the drape when the simulation ended. And if something doesn't quite fall right, you can alter the pose as needed between Frame 0 and Frame 30, (or wherever you put the target pose,) to improve the drape.

    Also, it isn't necessary to Start from Memorized Pose when using the Animated Timeline. I still start with the figure in the T or A pose most of the time, but occasionally, it comes in handy to move a body part out of the way. For example, I used Draupadi for my tests, and her feet are apparently larger than G3F, and got caught in the skirt. I was able to prevent that by bending her feet in Frame 0.

    It's important to note, the best feature of the Merimay Dress, using transmaps to dictate the style, is also an impediment to using dForce. Up to a point. The dress itself has a high necked collar, long sleeves and a floor length skirt. Add some shaders and you've got a very elegant dress. But… dForce isn't going to respect that transmap, from what I've been able to see while testing the Merimay Dress. I have some closeups to show you what the straps do in the back, with the Daring 02 style applied from the Christmas freebie, Double Dare for Merimay Dress. Although I did use an extreme, dance pose. Here are the images. clicking on the image, or the forum generated link below it, will open the image full-size in a new window.

    Specifics: Draupadi; Classical Dance Pose 03; Messy Bun Hair; Merimay Dress for G3F; Slippers from Fayre for G3F; Shimmer Iray Shaders.

    Image 01

    Image 01: The full dress. This pose stretched the skirt, not draping it as you see here. To achieve the drape, the figure was rotated to her side during the animation, so the skirt was able to ride up her legs.

    Image 02

    Image 02: This is the same simulation as Image 01. All I've done is hide the Sleeves and the Lower section of the skirt from Surfaces->Editor.

    Image 03

    Image 03: A new simulation, same animation, with the Sleeves hidden during the simulation. It wasn't possible to hide the lower section of the skirt, via the Surfaces->Editor or the Geometry Editor Tool. The hidden surface doesn't simulate and the connecting polygons get stretched.

    Image 04

    Image 04: A new file, same animation, with Sleeves and the Lower section of the skirt deleted via the Geometry Editor Tool, and the Daring 02 style applied prior to the simulation.

    Image 05Image 06

    Images 05 and 06: You can really see the how the "straps" of the dress have moved up and away from the body. As far as I can tell, it's because dForce "sees" the complete material zone.

    Image 07

    Image 07: The back of the dress without the transmap. The folds on the back are actually very nice, but you can see why the "straps" aren't lying against the skin.

    The drape of the skirt, in my opinion, is not as flattering in the second series. I used the same animation, which compensated for the longer skirt.

    I like the dress and how it drapes, but it does give mixed results. As long as you're not trying for an extreme pose like the one I chose, you should get decent results and still be able to use the Designer Packs. Just do the drape first, and then apply the Style/Design.

    Really enjoyed seeing this detailed chronicle of MeriMay Dress and dForce!  I would like to suggest that you try reducing or turning Simulation Strength off on the bodice and sleeves to get nicer results with the Style textures.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    edited May 2021

    Trumpet Dress on CB Thyme, Using Custom Morph, by L'AdairTurning Your Perfect Simulation Into A Morph

    One of the things that has eluded me with dForce is the ability to create a morph from my simulation.

    Why would I want to? I tend to have more than one item in a scene using dForce. And more than once I've cleared all the simulations hitting the Clear button, when I only wanted to redo a single item. As I rarely use a pose without making changes to it, I don't want or need to save the morph as an asset. But if I can transfer a simulation to a morph, (and save that morph with the scene,) I never have to worry about losing it later on.

    Anyway, Richard Haseltine responded to my request for a step-by-step, and I finally got it to work. I thought I'd expand on it here, so I don't forget the two things that were tripping me up before. (And while these instructions are geared toward dForce simulated items, the instructions are the same for any morph, sans the dForce specific steps.)

    After you've run your simulation and are happy with the results, you can create a morph for the item, (or items) using the following instructions

    1. Hide everything in the scene except for the one item to be morphed.
    2. Select the item and open the Parameters tab.
    3. Set the Mesh Resolution to Base, if it isn't already. (Trip up number one.)
    4. Export the item as an OBJ using the default "To: Daz Studio" (Verify "Ignore Invisible Nodes" is selected.)
      • Use a descriptive filename. It will come in handy if you need to redo the morph at a later date, or if you want to delete OBJ files you no longer need.
        Export Options screenshot
    5. If you have multiple items to create morphs for, repeat Steps 1 though 4 for each before going to Step 6.
    6. Clear the Simulation.
      • The Clear button in the Simulation Settings pane will clear the simulations on all the items in your scene.
      • Which is why there's a Step 5.
    7. Select the item.
    8. Open Morph Loader Pro.
      • From the top menu: Edit>Figure>Morph Loader Pro, or
      • From the Scene tab Menu: Asset->Morph Loader Pro, (I find this one easier. YMMV.)
      • And knowing Daz Studio, there is probably at least one more way to get to the Morph Loader Pro!
    9. In the Morph Loader Pro popup dialog, click on the "Choose Morph Files…" button.
    10. Locate your OBJ file and select.
    11. You should now see the filename of your OBJ file listed.
      Morph Loader Pro screenshot with one file loaded screenshot
      • Did you simulate a conforming wardrobe item to a posed figure? If not, skip to Step 14. Otherwise…
    12. Double-click on the filename or path, and the listing will expand to display the Morph Loader options for this file.
    13. Find the line for Reverse Deformations and right-click on the setting, No is the default, and select Yes from the popup list. (Trip up number two. I couldn't find this!)
      • This essentially removes the pose from the shape of the OBJ, so it doesn't become part of the morph.
        Morph Loader Pro with file options expanded screenshot
         
    14. If you are new to creating morphs, skip to Step 17 for now.**
    15. Morph Loader Pro will load the filename as the name of the morph by default.
      • The descriptive filename from Step 4 may not be the name you want for the morph.
      • Double-click on the "Name:" option's value if you'd like to rename the morph now.
    16. Morph Loader Pro will assign the Property Group value to Morphs/Morph Loader by default. (This can make your new morph easy to find…)
      • To change the location of the morph in the Parameters, right-clcik on the "Property Group:" value
      • In the resulting popup list, select where you'd like to find your morph. (Or create something new. But hold off on that if you're new to creating morphs.)
    17. Click on the Accept button.
    18. The next dialog should indicate your morph was created successfully.
      • If the dialog states, "warning. Geometry did not match, failed to create morph." the most likely issue is you forgot to do Step 3.
      • It is also possible, though less likely, you inadvertently selected the wrong OBJ file.
        Morph Loader Pro SUCCESS Dialog screenshot
         
    19. Save your scene file with the new morph. Right now. Don't give Daz Studio a chance to crash and lose your morph!

    I know this looks like a lot to do, but once you've done it a few times, most of the steps will become second nature. Below, from T-Pose to Target Pose to New Morph from dForce simulation.

    G3F and Trumpet Dress in default T-PoseG3F and Trumpet Dress in Target Pose, before simulationG3F and Trumpet Dress with new Morph applied


    **Steps 15 and 16 make changes that you can do in the Parameter Settings for the morph. However, if you're just learning about creating morphs, it will be easier to find your new morph in the object's Parameters tab under Morphs->Morph Loader, than in some other location.

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    Really enjoyed seeing this detailed chronicle of MeriMay Dress and dForce!  I would like to suggest that you try reducing or turning Simulation Strength off on the bodice and sleeves to get nicer results with the Style textures.

    Thank you for stopping by, Aave.

    I have Merimay Dress for both G2F and G3F and the Christmas freebie, so I was limited in the styles I could test. I choose the most extreme bodice as I knew it would give me the most challenges. There is an issue with dForce, as I see it, because the design isn't modeled in. Don't get me wrong. I love the flexibility using transmaps provides, and I think the Merimay Dress is a great product. It's one of my favorite dresses for my ladies. And unlike a lot of other "older" clothing items, it doesn't fall apart when draping with dForce!

    Setting Dynamic Strength low for the material zones—Collar, Sleeves, Waistband and "Dress" (bodice, to an old seamstress like me,)—does keep the fabric from draping away from the figure, but it also impacts how the skirt drapes. The ideal would be to apply a dForce Modifier Weight Node and and use weight maps to smooth the lower bodice from about 20% up to the 80% of the skirt, so the drape can flow more naturally. I'd also keep the seams at the sleeves at 20% but smoothly increase the strength to 80% or higher by the time the weight gets to the elbows, for a natural bend of the sleeves. However, I didn't want to overwhelm Sueya with weight nodes and weight maps. (I am assuming anyone comfortable using weight maps with dForce wouldn't have needed help with the Merimay Dress...)

    I've tested the dress with and without Dynamic Strength on the upper dress and I stand by my conclusions: the dress needs to be simulated with all zones visible, Styles need to be applied after the simulation, and some poses with extreme arm and/or body movement are going to get mixed results, depending on the applied style. However, dForce is still being developed and my understanding of dForce is evolving. If I discover something that changes my conclusions, I'll be sure to share them here.

    Off topic, I bought Eastern Nuance last night, and I'm really looking forward to using it. Such a lovely set. I wouldn't mind owning an outfit like that in real life!

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    I'm never going to get caught up...

    LOL... Sure you will. And to make it easier for you, I now have a Quick Index of the "How To…" or "How I Did…" posts in the OP. Bookmark the link to Page 1, and it should always take you to the index.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,513

    Awesome thanks! 

  • Robert FreiseRobert Freise Posts: 3,748

    I know I'll never get caught up I have almost 14,000 items from Daz alone and it take days for me to find anything and thats only if I can remember part of the name or in some cases who made it

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    Awesome thanks! 

    You're welcome.

  • Any tips for draping multiple dforce items over one another? For example a dynamic jacket over a dynamic shirt, or dynamic shirt over dynamic pants?

  • Any tips for draping multiple dforce items over one another? For example a dynamic jacket over a dynamic shirt, or dynamic shirt over dynamic pants?

    The Collision Layer setting, in the Surfaces pane, can be used to say which should go top of which (a single object can have only one layer value, though).

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    Any tips for draping multiple dforce items over one another? For example a dynamic jacket over a dynamic shirt, or dynamic shirt over dynamic pants?

    Are you having issues with something in particular? And are you referring to products sold as dForce compatible? Or items you add dForce to yourself?

    I've not had any trouble simulating two items at the same time. And these were not dForce compatible products: I simulated the both layers of the Platinum Cocktail dress at the same time, (Part 1, and Part 2.) I used the default Collision Mode setting, "Better - Continuous : CCD Vertex-Face" and both layers had Collision Layer set to 1. This uses the "Animated (Use Timeline Play Range) for the Frames To Simulate setting. As you can see from Part 2, I used weight maps to control the amount of influence from the simulation.

    Before I worked with the Platinum Cocktail dress, I used the Summer Maxi Dress, also simulating the slip and overdress at the same time, with layer setting at 1 for both. In the Simulation Settings, I used "Best - Continuous : CCD" Collision Mode, "Viewport" for Collision Mesh Resolution, (Using "Viewport" allows dForce to work with the "View SubD Level" of the object, if the Resoluiton is set to High Reolution in the Parameters of the object,) and Frames to Simulate set to "Current Frame." I didn't use weight maps with the Summer Maxi Dress, though. I left the default settings on the slip surface, but used the "dForce Surface Adjuster…" to make the slip "Silkier" and to "Shrink" it a bit to compensate for the added length of the drape.

    Any tips for draping multiple dforce items over one another? For example a dynamic jacket over a dynamic shirt, or dynamic shirt over dynamic pants?

    The Collision Layer setting, in the Surfaces pane, can be used to say which should go top of which (a single object can have only one layer value, though).

    Isn't the Collision Layer setting currently ignored by all but the "Good - Discrete : Swept Vertex" Collision Mode? Or was that changed in a later, released version of dForce?

  • marblemarble Posts: 6,826

    WRT saving the dForce simulation as a morph - many thanks for your tutorial: I just tried it and it worked well for me. Just a comment though - when I create morphs (mostly done in Blender) I usually make a habit of saving them to the garment using:

    File > Save As > Support Asset > Morph Asset

    I use a slightly different Product Name so as not to overwrite the original product and just select the newly created morph(s) from the heirarchy.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    edited March 2018
    marble said:

    WRT saving the dForce simulation as a morph - many thanks for your tutorial: I just tried it and it worked well for me. Just a comment though - when I create morphs (mostly done in Blender) I usually make a habit of saving them to the garment using:

    File > Save As > Support Asset > Morph Asset

    I use a slightly different Product Name so as not to overwrite the original product and just select the newly created morph(s) from the heirarchy.

    I've done that with many a morph. It really depends on if it's something I would use again. Also, when I do a long post with step, after step, after step of instructions, I like to leave off anything I think might confuse the issue for the less experienced.

    I still remember coming into these forums looking for answers and being inundated with more information than I could process, (along with one sentence comments to do this or that, without any instructions on the how!) I'm writing this stuff down so I have a reference with it all in one place, as well as making it easy to understand for those who are stumped and looking for specific information.

    Looks like I need to do a step-by-step on saving a morph as a support asset now. There are steps you and I take for granted that can trip up the newbie.

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • marblemarble Posts: 6,826
    L'Adair said:
    marble said:

    WRT saving the dForce simulation as a morph - many thanks for your tutorial: I just tried it and it worked well for me. Just a comment though - when I create morphs (mostly done in Blender) I usually make a habit of saving them to the garment using:

    File > Save As > Support Asset > Morph Asset

    I use a slightly different Product Name so as not to overwrite the original product and just select the newly created morph(s) from the heirarchy.

    I've done that with many a morph. It really depends on if it's something I would use again. Also, when I do a long post with step, after step, after step of instructions, I like to leave off anything I think might confuse the issue for the less experienced.

    I still remember coming into these forums looking for answers and being inundated with more information than I could process, (along with one sentence comments to do this or that, without any instructions on the how!) I'm writing this stuff down so I have a reference with it all in one place, as well as making it easy to understand for those who are stumped and looking for specific information.

    Looks like I need to do a step-by-step on saving a morph as a support asset now. There are steps you and I take for granted that can trip up the newbie.

    Understood - I agree with you about including too much. I just wanted to add that extra separately in case anyone didn't know how to save it. Again, your tutorial is much appreciated.

  • marblemarble Posts: 6,826
    edited March 2018

    One further question, however. I was considering saving morphs for many of my G3F poses becuase I am not confident yet with dForce so wary of running simulations in my scenes. The issue for me is that I am not sure what I need to do to make sure that nothing else in a potentially crowded scene will interfere with the simulation. I don't know what I have to do to make colliders and whether I need to make all other objects not visible in the settings. So I just load a G3F base figure and a garment, pose and simulate - then save as a morph. Obviously, this is not ideal becuase many of my characters are far from being the standard G3F shape so the saved morphs probably won't fit.

    So the question is - is there a tutorial which describes using dForce in a populated scene?

    Post edited by marble on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    edited May 2021
    marble said:

    One further question, however. I was considering saving morphs for many of my G3F poses becuase I am not confident yet with dForce so wary of running simulations in my scenes. The issue for me is that I am not sure what I need to do to make sure that nothing else in a potentially crowded scene will interfere with the simulation. I don't know what I have to do to make colliders and whether I need to make all other objects not visible in the settings. So I just load a G3F base figure and a garment, pose and simulate - then save as a morph. Obviously, this is not ideal becuase many of my characters are far from being the standard G3F shape so the saved morphs probably won't fit.

    So the question is - is there a tutorial which describes using dForce in a populated scene?

    First, loading the figure, posing, and simulating with nothing visible in the scene that doesn't affect the drape is going to produce the fastest simulations, regardless of how many other things are loaded. That said, I've been doing my simulations in a separate file and merging it with the full scene later. This will even keep your custom morph available, if you haven't saved it as a morph asset.

    Second, for best results, use the figure you want the item to drape on, not the base figure for that generation and sex. I draped the Merimay Dress on Draupadi, and when I tried changing the figure shape, I got a lot of poke-through.

    Rule of thumb: If an item is visible, it is a collider, no special settings required. If you want some control over how the collider interacts with the simulating object, Apply the dForce Modifier for a Static object and check the material zones in the Surfaces-Editor for the settings.

    I highly recommend you simulate an object when you need it, rather than creating a plethora of morphs for any given product. You're talking about a significant time investment, with no guarantee you'll use all those poses. And having invested the time to make the morphs, if you're like me, you'll be a bit disgusted when the morph for the pose you want to use doesn't fit the figure you want to use. At that point, you'll have to decide if you want to use the pose as is and tweak and/or fix the poke-through with postwork; try to find a different character that doesn't have the poke-through problems. (And there could be other problems besides poke-through!) Or just go ahead and run a new simulation!

    Clothing that is sold as dForce compliant shouldn't give you any problems. The vendor has already done the trial and error to get the results the item was intended to get. I recently purchased the dForce Clarissa Outfit and when I checked the dForce settings in the Surfaces->Editor everything was set to default. I added a dForce Modifier Weight Node, activated the Node Weight Brush Tool, and in Tool Settings, added the Influence Map, and selected it. Voilà, the weights the vendor used became visible: The skirt and sleeves had a lot of weight, (could drape the most,) and the bodice was set to a low weight, so it stayed close to the figure. Do this with the various dForce compliant products you own, and I think you'll learn a lot about using weight to control the simulation.

    Using clothing that wasn't created for dForce is a gamble. Merimay works because the dress is a solid mesh. The Platinum Cocktail dress is two layers of solid meshes, yet it caused explosions because of the added zipper pull on the back. The Medieval Cape falls apart without the proper weight maps to keep the bits together. And I've spent many hours trying to get one item or another to work the way I wanted, only to give up and go looking for a similar item to work with instead. (For the wedding bobbleheads, I wanted to use the Tuxedo for Genesis 2 Male(s), but it didn't work with dForce, so I used the Classic Tuxedo for Genesis 3 Male(s) instead.)

    And of course, I recommend using the Timeline.

    Ultimately, I think the key to using dForce is flexibility. Don't lock yourself into anything specific, (unless it's dForce compliant to begin with,) and if the first thing you tried doesn't work out, try something else. Be willing to change your vision to accommodate the drape, if need be, rather than trying to change the drape to match your vision.

     

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • chris-2599934chris-2599934 Posts: 1,601
    edited March 2018

    Coming late to this thread. Soooo much useful information to absorb - thanks for that. My own experiments with dforce on older items have never resulted in explosions, but often fail with a popup that says something like "Simulation failed, see log file for details." At which point I have to close and restart Daz Studio to get dforce to work on anything again. Anyone else seen that?

    Just to derail the thread a little bit, I did note this comment in one of your posts:

    Considering how much and often one must Clear Selection when using the Geometry Editor or Weight Node Brush, it boggles my mind that it doesn't have it's own Ctrl+something option!

    If there's something you find you're doing a lot, you can create your own keyboard shortcut for it.

    • Select Window > Workspace > Customize... from the top menu (or just press the F3 key).
    • Find the function you want in the left hand box (labelled "Actions" at the top). In your case it would be Geometry Selection > Clear Selection.
    • Right click the action and choose "Change Keyboard Shortcut," it'll invite you to press the key(s) to be assigned to that action. I find Shift+Ctrl+something combinations are usually free.

    I've not set up all that many shortcuts myself, but two I have done - and use constantly - are Shift+Ctrl+C for Scene Hierarchy > Select Children (which selects the children of currently selected items, and otherwise requires a fiddly right click in the Scene tab) and Shift+Ctrl+Z for Parameters > Zero Selected Item(s) Pose. Now if, say, I want to zero a hand pose, I just select the hand, press Ctrl+Shift+C, then Ctrl+Shift+Z. Zeroed hand!

    Hope this digression was useful to somebody, we now return to your normal progamming...

    Post edited by chris-2599934 on
  • marblemarble Posts: 6,826
    L'Adair said:
    marble said:

    One further question, however. I was considering saving morphs for many of my G3F poses becuase I am not confident yet with dForce so wary of running simulations in my scenes. The issue for me is that I am not sure what I need to do to make sure that nothing else in a potentially crowded scene will interfere with the simulation. I don't know what I have to do to make colliders and whether I need to make all other objects not visible in the settings. So I just load a G3F base figure and a garment, pose and simulate - then save as a morph. Obviously, this is not ideal becuase many of my characters are far from being the standard G3F shape so the saved morphs probably won't fit.

    So the question is - is there a tutorial which describes using dForce in a populated scene?

    First, loading the figure, posing, and simulating with nothing visible in the scene that doesn't affect the drape is going to produce the fastest simulations, regardless of how many other things are loaded. That said, I've been doing my simulations in a separate file and merging it with the full scene later. This will even keep your custom morph available, if you haven't saved it as a morph asset.

    Second, for best results, use the figure you want the item to drape on, not the base figure for that generation and sex. I draped the Merimay Dress on Draupadi, and when I tried changing the figure shape, I got a lot of poke-through.

    Rule of thumb: If an item is visible, it is a collider, no special settings required. If you want some control over how the collider interacts with the simulating object, Apply the dForce Modifier for a Static object and check the material zones in the Surfaces-Editor for the settings.

    I highly recommend you simulate an object when you need it, rather than creating a plethora of morphs for any given product. You're talking about a significant time investment, with no guarantee you'll use all those poses. And having invested the time to make the morphs, if you're like me, you'll be a bit disgusted when the morph for the pose you want to use doesn't fit the figure you want to use. At that point, you'll have to decide if you want to use the pose as is and tweak and/or fix the poke-through with postwork; try to find a different character that doesn't have the poke-through problems. (And there could be other problems besides poke-through!) Or just go ahead and run a new simulation!

    Clothing that is sold as dForce compliant shouldn't give you any problems. The vendor has already done the trial and error to get the results the item was intended to get. I recently purchased the dForce Clarissa Outfit and when I checked the dForce settings in the Surfaces->Editor everything was set to default. I added a dForce Modifier Weight Node, activated the Node Weight Brush Tool, and in Tool Settings, added the Influence Map, and selected it. Voilà, the weights the vendor used became visible: The skirt and sleeves had a lot of weight, (could drape the most,) and the bodice was set to a low weight, so it stayed close to the figure. Do this with the various dForce compliant products you own, and I think you'll learn a lot about using weight to control the simulation.

    Using clothing that wasn't created for dForce is a gamble. Merimay works because the dress is a solid mesh. The Platinum Cocktail dress is two layers of solid meshes, yet it caused explosions because of the added zipper pull on the back. The Medieval Cape falls apart without the proper weight maps to keep the bits together. And I've spent many hours trying to get one item or another to work the way I wanted, only to give up and go looking for a similar item to work with instead. (For the wedding bobbleheads, I wanted to use the Tuxedo for Genesis 2 Male(s), but it didn't work with dForce, so I used the Classic Tuxedo for Genesis 3 Male(s) instead.)

    And of course, I recommend using the Timeline.

    Ultimately, I think the key to using dForce is flexibility. Don't lock yourself into anything specific, (unless it's dForce compliant to begin with,) and if the first thing you tried doesn't work out, try something else. Be willing to change your vision to accommodate the drape, if need be, rather than trying to change the drape to match your vision.

     

    Some excellent advice here - thank you once again. I don't have any dForce compliant garments, nor do I have any G8 products so I am still working with G3 F&M and their legacy wardrobes. I have the dForce Presets product on my wishlist but I take your point about explosions: that's why I abandoned dForce after a few tries when it first appeared. Re-stocking with dForce compliant clothing would be a considerable expense and I just don't have the funds right now.

     

     

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    edited May 2021
    marble said:

    Some excellent advice here - thank you once again. I don't have any dForce compliant garments, nor do I have any G8 products so I am still working with G3 F&M and their legacy wardrobes. I have the dForce Presets product on my wishlist but I take your point about explosions: that's why I abandoned dForce after a few tries when it first appeared. Re-stocking with dForce compliant clothing would be a considerable expense and I just don't have the funds right now.

    I have several dForce clothing, mainly because I've been buying the male Pro bundles as they come out. (A small contribution to bebunk the "myth" that products for males don't sell.) And I've bought a few dresses along the way. I actually bought Clarissa because it looked like the vendors were doing the same with that dress as Aave Nainen did with Merimay. I was right. The style variations are all transmaps, but that's a post for another day.

    I don't blame Daz or the vendors for selling dForce compliant products at a higher price, but it does make it harder for me to buy on impulse. For now, it might help if you load the clothing item in using the Smooth Solid draw mode. Without textures, it should be fairly easy to see if the item you want to drape is a single mesh or not. Another trick to finding if everything is connected is to use the Geometry Editor Tool. With the tool, select a few polygons in the center of an area, and then hit Ctrl+*, (that tiny speck is an asterisk,) and all the polys that are connected to the few selected will become selected. You can't trust the material zones to tell you what is one mesh and what isn't.

    @chris-2599934, I believe it's RGcincy in his dForce Everything thread who suggested we create the shortcut Ctrl+Shift+D for the dForce option to Clear Selected. While I was at it, I set Ctrl+Shift+C to Clear the Selection for the Geometry Editor Tool, and Ctrl+Alt+A to Select All, (Ctrl+Shift+A was already in use elsewhere.)

    However, I really like your idea. Did you know you can select bones, like all of the bones of the arm, and Ctrl+Click on a pose preset to apply the pose just to the selected bones? (Details found in this post) Your setup would make that really easy, too. (I just have to decide what keystrokes to use. I've already gotten used to Ctrl+Shift+C clearing my GeoTool selections!)

    As for why some Simulations fail to the extent we have to close and restart DS, I have no idea. Are you using the latest version of Studio, 4.10.0.123? (As opposed to an earlier, beta release…) I recall running into that error more often with the earlier 4.11 betas. 4.10 betas. (A bit of wishful thinking there, maybe…?)

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    edited May 2021

    PIllows. They do not dForce well. crying

    I was encouraged by RGcincy's post: Getting a Figure’s Head to Sink into a Pillow. However, I was able to determine his settings work for pillows that are slightly embedded in the surface they are lying on. I was trying to use a pillow that wasn't, and using negative gravity just had it floating up and around Stryker's head, like it was trying to smother him. So I turned to dForms.

    I used six dForms on my pillow to get the indents where I needed them, using "Influence" and weight maps with each, rather than the default Sphere. They overlapped and interacted, so there was a lot of bouncing from one to another until I was finally happy with the results. Then I spawned all six to a single morph. (If anyone wants me to go into detail on using weight maps with dForms, just ask. Though I may post the info in another thread.)

    But I'm not a fan of "Pillows" for sleeping that don't have pillowcases. The pillow I used is from The Youth Camp - Camper's Cabin, And has a pillow inside of a pillowcase. I used the Geometry Editor and Export to split them into two separate objects. And I used Hexagon to undo the the folds in the pillowcase. (Probably overkill, but I'm trying to learn how to do some modeling…) Once I had the morph for the pillow, I used dForce to get the pillowcase to match the pillow's shape. Here are the results:

    Stryker and Megah WIP with dForced pillowcase.

    To accomplish this, I used the Tiimeline with the pillow in the position you see above at 30 Frames and starting out in a vertical position above and to the side at Frame 0, completely covered by the pillowcase, open end down. The timeline went to 60 to give the pillowcase opening plenty of time to settle. Bend Stiffness is .15, (Thank you, Aave.) Stretch-Contraction settings are at 98%, Besides hiding Megah, hair, eyelashes and bed parts not needed as colliders, I also hid all of Stryker's bones except for the left arms and shoulders. and finally, I turned the simulation into a morph for the pillowcase.

    An interesting thing happened when I applied the morph to the pillowcase after clearing the simulation. It didn't go where I wanted it to. That's because the transforms for the pillowcase were still the same as for Frame 0 of the animation. When I set all the transforms to default, the morph placed the pillowcase exactly where it belonged. It seems obvious now, but I wasn't so sure when the pillowcase went flying off in some odd direction at first.

    Finally, I applied SubD and set it to 2.

    I know it looks pretty darn good in the image above, but the pillow actually poked through a bit in some places. I tinkered with expanding the pillowcase using a Push Modifier, but it affected how the case interacted with the mattress and Stryker's body parts. In the end, I just hid the pillow.

    You can see dformed pillow from three different angles here, in my WIPs thread.

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • edited March 2018

    It's like whenever I drape like a shirt that hangs over pants the pants or the shirt clip through the 

    L'Adair said:

    Any tips for draping multiple dforce items over one another? For example a dynamic jacket over a dynamic shirt, or dynamic shirt over dynamic pants?

    Are you having issues with something in particular? And are you referring to products sold as dForce compatible? Or items you add dForce to yourself?

    I've not had any trouble simulating two items at the same time. And these were not dForce compatible products: I simulated the both layers of the Platinum Cocktail dress at the same time, (Part 1, and Part 2.) I used the default Collision Mode setting, "Better - Continuous : CCD Vertex-Face" and both layers had Collision Layer set to 1. This uses the "Animated (Use Timeline Play Range) for the Frames To Simulate setting. As you can see from Part 2, I used weight maps to control the amount of influence from the simulation.

    Before I worked with the Platinum Cocktail dress, I used the Summer Maxi Dress, also simulating the slip and overdress at the same time, with layer setting at 1 for both. In the Simulation Settings, I used "Best - Continuous : CCD" Collision Mode, "Viewport" for Collision Mesh Resolution, (Using "Viewport" allows dForce to work with the "View SubD Level" of the object, if the Resoluiton is set to High Reolution in the Parameters of the object,) and Frames to Simulate set to "Current Frame." I didn't use weight maps with the Summer Maxi Dress, though. I left the default settings on the slip surface, but used the "dForce Surface Adjuster…" to make the slip "Silkier" and to "Shrink" it a bit to compensate for the added length of the drape.

    Any tips for draping multiple dforce items over one another? For example a dynamic jacket over a dynamic shirt, or dynamic shirt over dynamic pants?

    The Collision Layer setting, in the Surfaces pane, can be used to say which should go top of which (a single object can have only one layer value, though).

    Isn't the Collision Layer setting currently ignored by all but the "Good - Discrete : Swept Vertex" Collision Mode? Or was that changed in a later, released version of dForce?

    Well , I'm draping the V4 Fitted tank and jeans on G8f using the timeline, and well this is what happens. 

    I've also been having this weird problem with capes in dforce that try to wrap around themselves in the front all the time. I even tried putting a cylinder under the cape to keep the two sides away from each other and the cape just wraps around the cylinder. I'm using the free ods long cape from rendiosity by the way. 

    Desktop Screenshot 2018.03.14 - 18.45.21.18.png
    1920 x 1080 - 522K
    Post edited by dacon2000_fa762f612c on
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