Fluids in Carrara and a plugin by Alberto is coming

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Comments

  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,945

    That made doubtless shit DAZ that we have programmers of talent, I know, they are (DAZ) salesmen and not creators, but a program like Carrara must make them shade intensely.
    It is certainly the reason for which they do not want to give it to someone else…

    About this new plugin, I'm ready to leave Realflow if it works!

  • JonstarkJonstark Posts: 2,738

    I wondered why this thread was suddenly so active.

    Wow!

    Alberto, you the man!

    With the recent additions of impressive plugins and character workarounds recently, I'm again asking the question - Can Carrara be largely upgraded through plugins?  If so, then the "no longer supported by Daz" argument may be moot.

    Truthfully this plugin (in development) probably needs its own thread.  Too many people will see the title and skip this one, not realizing there's a super cool fluid sim that Alberto is working on making a plugin for Carrara.

    I really do think that Carrara can indeed be developed just by plugins. There's very few barriers left for Carrara, thanks to all these great plugins.

  • AlbertoAlberto Posts: 1,382

     

    Philemo said:

    Alberto, You're great. yes

    If you need any help that could help having this plugin ready to release, please don't hesitate to ask. I mean, in addition to OSX compiling.

    BTW, I see that GridFluidSim3D  run in openCL, with GPU. That's awesome. You've made a very good choice in choosing the simulator to integrate.

    Thank you, Philemo!

    And yes, because of use of openCL, this simulator is fast.

     

    Philemo said:
    @Alberto, Do you plan to implement the bubbles, spray and foam particles set that Fluid is able to produce? The difference in realism is really important when you look at the examples. That said, it's just a wish list, I'll be happy enough with the mesh and I don't want to add pressure on you :-)

    Like this?

    https://youtu.be/4H3HBhPPkbk

    image

     

  • AlbertoAlberto Posts: 1,382
    Jonstark said:

    Wow!  Did I read that right, there will be a Carrara plugin for this?  AWESOME!!   laugh

    Yes, you read that right !

     

  • JonstarkJonstark Posts: 2,738
    Alberto said:

     

    Philemo said:

    Alberto, You're great. yes

    If you need any help that could help having this plugin ready to release, please don't hesitate to ask. I mean, in addition to OSX compiling.

    BTW, I see that GridFluidSim3D  run in openCL, with GPU. That's awesome. You've made a very good choice in choosing the simulator to integrate.

    Thank you, Philemo!

    And yes, because of use of openCL, this simulator is fast.

     

    Philemo said:
    @Alberto, Do you plan to implement the bubbles, spray and foam particles set that Fluid is able to produce? The difference in realism is really important when you look at the examples. That said, it's just a wish list, I'll be happy enough with the mesh and I don't want to add pressure on you :-)

    Like this?

    https://youtu.be/4H3HBhPPkbk

    image

     

    Wow!  Man this is going to be epic!  

    And this really, really needs it's own thread.  Blender will try to steal the credit lol  :)

  • AlbertoAlberto Posts: 1,382

    I wondered why this thread was suddenly so active.

    Wow!

    Alberto, you the man!

    With the recent additions of impressive plugins and character workarounds recently, I'm again asking the question - Can Carrara be largely upgraded through plugins?  If so, then the "no longer supported by Daz" argument may be moot.

    Thank you, UnifiedBrain!

    I think the same... plugins could somehow "upgrade" Carrara. 

    Carrara don't deserve to die.

  • AlbertoAlberto Posts: 1,382
    Jonstark said:

    Wow!  Man this is going to be epic!  

    And this really, really needs it's own thread.  Blender will try to steal the credit lol  :)

    You're right. This needs its own thread. Later, when the work is more advanced, I will open one.

    Ryan Guy's simulator has some advantages over Blender's one, e.g. it's faster. I'm trying to take the more features of the simulator to Carrara.

     

    Wendy, Dudu, Dartanbeck and Diomede, thank you for your words !

  • McGuiverMcGuiver Posts: 219

    Wow!

    Alvin, That is amazing...I truly wish you the best in implimenting this.

    I have been wishing for fluids in Carrara for many years & hoped that Pycloid would be the answer. Unfortunately, I had unsavable Carrara lockups whenever I adjusted the Pycloid settings too many times.

     

    As a note: One problem I have had with every try on fluids or particles in Carrara is when a moving object collides with the fluid, the fluid would ignore the changes in the moving object.

    Examples: A boat moving across a sea, A rock skipping across a pond, a spoon stirring a drink.

    I will definately be following this discussion and watching for it's thread.

     

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,139

    A good fluid sim is one of the few missing things in Carrara, especially if you include the plugins already available. I applaud your work and can't wait to try it out!

  • magaremotomagaremoto Posts: 1,226

    I wondered why this thread was suddenly so active.

    Wow!

    Alberto, you the man!

    With the recent additions of impressive plugins and character workarounds recently, I'm again asking the question - Can Carrara be largely upgraded through plugins?  If so, then the "no longer supported by Daz" argument may be moot.

    agreed yes

  • 0oseven0oseven Posts: 626
    edited October 2017

    Brilliant - Really needed in  Carrara  = what are simulation/render times ?

    Could objects float on it - boats, debris etc ? 

     

     

     

     

    Post edited by 0oseven on
  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,924

    terrific work Wendy - and terrific news Alberto!

  • AlbertoAlberto Posts: 1,382
    McGuiver said:

    Wow!

    Alvin, That is amazing...I truly wish you the best in implimenting this.

    I have been wishing for fluids in Carrara for many years & hoped that Pycloid would be the answer. Unfortunately, I had unsavable Carrara lockups whenever I adjusted the Pycloid settings too many times.

     

    As a note: One problem I have had with every try on fluids or particles in Carrara is when a moving object collides with the fluid, the fluid would ignore the changes in the moving object.

    Examples: A boat moving across a sea, A rock skipping across a pond, a spoon stirring a drink.

    I will definately be following this discussion and watching for it's thread.

     

    The plugin can do it. Thank you!

    https://youtu.be/UlXceO4WOaE

    image

     

     

    0oseven said:

    Brilliant - Really needed in  Carrara  = what are simulation/render times ?

    Could objects float on it - boats, debris etc ? 

    Well, render times are longer that simulation. This is because:

    1. Shaders with transparency and reflection

    2. The complexity of the result: the baked simulation is saved externally and is read and reconstructed frame by frame during rendering. Diffuse material (bubbles, spray, foam), if allowed, are somehow slow to be rendered. But this is relative. None of the videos I showed took more than a minute by frame rendering.

    My computer has a simple Nvidia GeForce GT 220 (the simulator uses OpenCL), and a typical time of frame simulation is 20 s or less.

    About the interaction of solids with fluid: the Guy's simulator actually works with static solids, but it somehow let the user to "move" the solid and the fluid reacts to this change. But the solid isn't aware of the fluid, so it don't react to fluid movement. I have an idea about how to achive this task inside the plugin, but, for the moment, neither the plugin nor the simulator physically act on the solids.

    Thank you!

    Thanks, also, to Phil, Magaremoto and head wax for their words.

  • Will you offer a Mac version? I hope so!

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,139

    From the sound of it, any limitations will be well worth living with. Let me know if you need a beta tester.

  • McGuiverMcGuiver Posts: 219
    PhilW said:

    From the sound of it, any limitations will be well worth living with. Let me know if you need a beta tester.

    Count me in as a beta tester also.

    This will be a great addition to Carrara!

    Alberto,

    Thanks for the video on reaction with moving objects.yes

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,079
    edited October 2017

    I forgot to mention that cyclopstriches are allergic to water.  wink

    That is an amazing fluid animation.  Congratulations, Alberto.  What an honor to have one of my silly creatures in a test animation.  Thank you.

    .

     

    Alberto said:
    McGuiver said:

    Wow!

    Alvin, That is amazing...I truly wish you the best in implimenting this.

    I have been wishing for fluids in Carrara for many years & hoped that Pycloid would be the answer. Unfortunately, I had unsavable Carrara lockups whenever I adjusted the Pycloid settings too many times.

     

    As a note: One problem I have had with every try on fluids or particles in Carrara is when a moving object collides with the fluid, the fluid would ignore the changes in the moving object.

    Examples: A boat moving across a sea, A rock skipping across a pond, a spoon stirring a drink.

    I will definately be following this discussion and watching for it's thread.

     

    The plugin can do it. Thank you!

    https://youtu.be/UlXceO4WOaE

    image

     

     

    0oseven said:

    Brilliant - Really needed in  Carrara  = what are simulation/render times ?

    Could objects float on it - boats, debris etc ? 

    Well, render times are longer that simulation. This is because:

    1. Shaders with transparency and reflection

    2. The complexity of the result: the baked simulation is saved externally and is read and reconstructed frame by frame during rendering. Diffuse material (bubbles, spray, foam), if allowed, are somehow slow to be rendered. But this is relative. None of the videos I showed took more than a minute by frame rendering.

    My computer has a simple Nvidia GeForce GT 220 (the simulator uses OpenCL), and a typical time of frame simulation is 20 s or less.

    About the interaction of solids with fluid: the Guy's simulator actually works with static solids, but it somehow let the user to "move" the solid and the fluid reacts to this change. But the solid isn't aware of the fluid, so it don't react to fluid movement. I have an idea about how to achive this task inside the plugin, but, for the moment, neither the plugin nor the simulator physically act on the solids.

    Thank you!

    Thanks, also, to Phil, Magaremoto and head wax for their words.

     

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,224

    Bravo!

  • 0oseven0oseven Posts: 626

    Thanks for the info  Alberto - really look forward to experimenting with this.Didn't expect any magic with rendering times but what you have indicated is very acceptable and of course every scene different depending on complexity.

    thank you for working on this

    cheers

  • StezzaStezza Posts: 7,802
    edited October 2017

    just wow... gosh and a well stuff me! yes

    Carrara Plugins.jpg
    800 x 600 - 258K
    Post edited by Stezza on
  • AlbertoAlberto Posts: 1,382
    Diomede said:

    I forgot to mention that cyclopstriches are allergic to water.  wink

    Oops! Sorry, Diomede!

    Thank you for your cyclopstrich, it's a very likable creature.

    Will you offer a Mac version? I hope so!

    I'll try... Philemo has kindly offered me to try building the Mac version.

     

    PhilW said:

    From the sound of it, any limitations will be well worth living with. Let me know if you need a beta tester.

     

    McGuiver said:

    Count me in as a beta tester also.

    This will be a great addition to Carrara!

    Alberto,

    Thanks for the video on reaction with moving objects.yes

    Thank you, I appreciate your offer !

     

    0oseven said:

    Thanks for the info  Alberto - really look forward to experimenting with this.Didn't expect any magic with rendering times but what you have indicated is very acceptable and of course every scene different depending on complexity.

    thank you for working on this

    cheers

    You're welcome !

     

    Bravo!

    Thank you, Dartanbeck!

     

    Stezza said:

    just wow... gosh and a well stuff me! yes

    Thank you, Stezza! 

    By the way, your image remembers me Carrara SDK sometimes...

  • namtar3dnamtar3d Posts: 238

    Can't wait fot this! Amazing job!

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    thirsty! laugh

  • ImagoImago Posts: 4,900

    Looks amazing, exactly what I needed!

    Just a question: the fluid simulations can be set to "stick" on a figure? It's a life I'm trying to find a way to have water droplets running on a girl rising from water or a jet of blood stain a wall! (sorry for gruesome request! cheeky)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,224
    Imago said:

    Looks amazing, exactly what I needed!

    Just a question: the fluid simulations can be set to "stick" on a figure? It's a life I'm trying to find a way to have water droplets running on a girl rising from water or a jet of blood stain a wall! (sorry for gruesome request! cheeky)

    FYI: Both of those should be achievable already

    Particle emitter - use the figure as the object emitter in the emitter settings. In the case of the peson coming out of water, use metaball as the particle type - or even Facing Camera for just a trans-map solution - and set the gravity just right for the downward flow you need, along with object friction and such. I've never tried it, but it feels doable in my mind.

    Animated Shaders - I've experimented with making a very low-res test - I used the texture maps of V4 and used a rainfall plugin in Howler to turn the texture map into an animation with water droplets moving down the map. It was just a quick test to see if it would work - and it did. I just used Operations > Add to add the color, highlight, and bump avi files to the current shader for the V4 figure. For my simple test, however, I started in Howler by reducing the image maps to a much smaller size. The thing that didn't work right is that my rain plugin doesn't have a way to warp the flow, but I think Howler, itself, does have a way to facilitate that. But since my rain plugin just ran the rain straight down the map, it didn't fllow the shape of the body curves properly. With more time and effort doing the same thing again, I would use my own, hand-drawn selections to run the plugin on to get the droplets flowing properly.

    Blood splats would be an easy exercise using basic cartoon animation techniques. The blood through the air could be particles or even stock footage in post (or even directly in the render), then just run the animated splat in the shader of the wall ;)

  • ImagoImago Posts: 4,900

    FYI: Both of those should be achievable already

    Particle emitter - use the figure as the object emitter in the emitter settings. In the case of the peson coming out of water, use metaball as the particle type - or even Facing Camera for just a trans-map solution - and set the gravity just right for the downward flow you need, along with object friction and such. I've never tried it, but it feels doable in my mind.

    Animated Shaders - I've experimented with making a very low-res test - I used the texture maps of V4 and used a rainfall plugin in Howler to turn the texture map into an animation with water droplets moving down the map. It was just a quick test to see if it would work - and it did. I just used Operations > Add to add the color, highlight, and bump avi files to the current shader for the V4 figure. For my simple test, however, I started in Howler by reducing the image maps to a much smaller size. The thing that didn't work right is that my rain plugin doesn't have a way to warp the flow, but I think Howler, itself, does have a way to facilitate that. But since my rain plugin just ran the rain straight down the map, it didn't fllow the shape of the body curves properly. With more time and effort doing the same thing again, I would use my own, hand-drawn selections to run the plugin on to get the droplets flowing properly.

    Blood splats would be an easy exercise using basic cartoon animation techniques. The blood through the air could be particles or even stock footage in post (or even directly in the render), then just run the animated splat in the shader of the wall ;)

    I already tried everything you suggested... Results are very good on static objects or simply movements, but comes really bad when involving complex movements or chars.

  • AlbertoAlberto Posts: 1,382
    Imago said:

    Looks amazing, exactly what I needed!

    Just a question: the fluid simulations can be set to "stick" on a figure? It's a life I'm trying to find a way to have water droplets running on a girl rising from water or a jet of blood stain a wall! (sorry for gruesome request! cheeky)

    Sorry for the delay in answering, Imago. But I didn't want to give you a negative answer, because the original simulator don't implements sticking in solids.

    I was working last days in adding a trick to do something similar: a "surface force" in solids. This surface force is a feature I have planned to implement, previously, but as a repulsive force. Well, it works as an attractive force too.

    This is an example:

    https://youtu.be/yJkERwfxCew

    image

    namtar3d said:

    Can't wait fot this! Amazing job!

    Thank you!

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,139

    Looks like you are performing wonders with this!

  • GreymomGreymom Posts: 1,104

    Awesome work!

     

  • ImagoImago Posts: 4,900
    Alberto said:
    Imago said:

    Looks amazing, exactly what I needed!

    Just a question: the fluid simulations can be set to "stick" on a figure? It's a life I'm trying to find a way to have water droplets running on a girl rising from water or a jet of blood stain a wall! (sorry for gruesome request! cheeky)

    Sorry for the delay in answering, Imago. But I didn't want to give you a negative answer, because the original simulator don't implements sticking in solids.

    I was working last days in adding a trick to do something similar: a "surface force" in solids. This surface force is a feature I have planned to implement, previously, but as a repulsive force. Well, it works as an attractive force too.

    This is an example:

    https://youtu.be/yJkERwfxCew

    image

    namtar3d said:

    Can't wait fot this! Amazing job!

    Thank you!

    This is exactly I meant! Absolutely perfect!
    I hope it can work on chars as well!
    I can't wait to see it work on my Carrara!
    Dumb question: Any idea on when, where and how it will be available to us Mortals? And how much you will charge for it?
    Thanks!

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