Is there any reason to upgrade to Genesis 8?

exstarsis

So the takeaway here is that minotaurs don't sell but mermaids do? I think?

I kind of figured the centaur was the g3 minotaur. Maybe for g8 in 18 months we'll get a sphinx.

Inkubo

Singular Blues said:

I mean, as good as Studio is at what it does, (and it's not shabby) their solution to non-baised rendering was to implement iRay, which someone else made. I just don't see them building their own real time functionality. I know iRay has a realtime mode, but I've no idea how well it works. <Snip>

I think they would be foolish if they weren't doing it, because real time is the next thing.

Eevee!

wolf359

" If your art ventures out of those areas, you are better served by 
learning your craft.  There is nothing more liberating than self-reliance."

Absolutely My friend!!..absolutely!!!

Mistara

i dont plan to re-buy any g3 to g8 stuff.

if somethin unique comes out for g8, would consider it.

i'm open to the g2 hybrids for g8, like minotaur and satyrs, for the face rigging.

i'm open to any figures with face rigging.  big cat, dragon, dinos 

Cybersox

Singular Blues said:

 

The product cycle for all of those items was the same as the G3 cycle. 2 years. 2 Years of Genesis, 2 years of Genesis 2, and 2 years of Genesis 3.

I'm pretty sure it's not product cycle, but lack of sales.

Zevo's staples are a good example. The crop up like bad pennies. Because they are selling. Whoever made four arms didn't make four arms 2 because they stopped selling or because the product didn't return on the investment. Which is back to what I said before, about fringe stuff. You need people who can afford to have low returns to make it work.

I don't think a longer cycle changes those economics, because it doesn't change the time investment. It just means the market is either saturated with products, or people have gotten their fill, and are turning to the esoteric. And, neither scenario suggests sales will actually return the effort.

The fundamentals of the market either are inherently, or have become a kind of trap. And I'm not, myself, well versed in economics such that I can point the way out. I just can't see how more time changes the incentives enough to actually create the condition you want, where fringe stuff provide the return. If I could, I'd exploit it myself, since most of what I would like to do doesn't exist. I just don't have the time to make it, because it probably won't pay back.

I've fairly sure that you're partially right on the cycles vs sales angle.  The fact that the heavy discounting on the G3 rolled in so early, and that certain types of figures weren't even bothered for this pass before the next was phased in with... would seem to indicate that the policy is to reiiterate the top sellers as quickly as possible and let the PAs service the remainder of the market.  Hence, we got Dragon 3 and are still on Cat 1 and Dog 1, and we only got official teens for the girls for Genesis 3, whereas Genesis 2 had 2 for each sex, and we haven't seen any actual official kids since the kid morph for Genesis 1.  And yet, we keep hearing in the offical DAZ hype that this figure or that figure is the best selling one they've had by whatever arcane method they're using that month.  I don't think they're lying about it, but I suspect that the demand is becoming increasingly front loaded as each new character tackles smaller and smaller portions of the gene pool and the rewards of upgrading become less significant.  Someone earlier made the analogy about getting a new car every two years andd others have compared it to new phones, but there's a fundamental flaw in that argument.  People don't get a new Lexus, Beemer or iPhone every two years because there's a significant increase in features... I'd be willing to bet that half of the people with iPhones or the latest Android even know how to use half the capability of their previous devices.  Rather, the constant upgrading is about the perceived presitge of flashing the new hot toy in front of your friends' and coworkers' envious faces.  But with DAZ figures you really don't have it.  Yes, some people can croon in the forums about how this bends better or that rigging is superior, but when push comes to shove, we're at the point where what makes an impressive render has far less to do with the figure being used and much more to do with the renderer and the skills of the artist. Iray was a huge game changer in that respect, and G3F benefitted immeasurably from being the first figure to come in iray natively.  G8, so far, has only offered a fem minor incremental improvements that, frankly, won't be noticeable to a huge percentage of the people out there.  At this point what DAZ really needs is improved hair, a better system for draping clothing, and the ability to have soft body collisions, because until those are impoved the best bending figure in the world is still going to look a bit off. 

josephlemons69_4db0991b45

CybersoxXIII said:

Singular Blues said:

 

The product cycle for all of those items was the same as the G3 cycle. 2 years. 2 Years of Genesis, 2 years of Genesis 2, and 2 years of Genesis 3.

I'm pretty sure it's not product cycle, but lack of sales.

Zevo's staples are a good example. The crop up like bad pennies. Because they are selling. Whoever made four arms didn't make four arms 2 because they stopped selling or because the product didn't return on the investment. Which is back to what I said before, about fringe stuff. You need people who can afford to have low returns to make it work.

I don't think a longer cycle changes those economics, because it doesn't change the time investment. It just means the market is either saturated with products, or people have gotten their fill, and are turning to the esoteric. And, neither scenario suggests sales will actually return the effort.

The fundamentals of the market either are inherently, or have become a kind of trap. And I'm not, myself, well versed in economics such that I can point the way out. I just can't see how more time changes the incentives enough to actually create the condition you want, where fringe stuff provide the return. If I could, I'd exploit it myself, since most of what I would like to do doesn't exist. I just don't have the time to make it, because it probably won't pay back.

I've fairly sure that you're partially right on the cycles vs sales angle.  The fact that the heavy discounting on the G3 rolled in so early, and that certain types of figures weren't even bothered for this pass before the next was phased in with... would seem to indicate that the policy is to reiiterate the top sellers as quickly as possible and let the PAs service the remainder of the market.  Hence, we got Dragon 3 and are still on Cat 1 and Dog 1, and we only got official teens for the girls for Genesis 3, whereas Genesis 2 had 2 for each sex, and we haven't seen any actual official kids since the kid morph for Genesis 1.  And yet, we keep hearing in the offical DAZ hype that this figure or that figure is the best selling one they've had by whatever arcane method they're using that month.  I don't think they're lying about it, but I suspect that the demand is becoming increasingly front loaded as each new character tackles smaller and smaller portions of the gene pool and the rewards of upgrading become less significant.  Someone earlier made the analogy about getting a new car every two years andd others have compared it to new phones, but there's a fundamental flaw in that argument.  People don't get a new Lexus, Beemer or iPhone every two years because there's a significant increase in features... I'd be willing to bet that half of the people with iPhones or the latest Android even know how to use half the capability of their previous devices.  Rather, the constant upgrading is about the perceived presitge of flashing the new hot toy in front of your friends' and coworkers' envious faces.  But with DAZ figures you really don't have it.  Yes, some people can croon in the forums about how this bends better or that rigging is superior, but when push comes to shove, we're at the point where what makes an impressive render has far less to do with the figure being used and much more to do with the renderer and the skills of the artist. Iray was a huge game changer in that respect, and G3F benefitted immeasurably from being the first figure to come in iray natively.  G8, so far, has only offered a fem minor incremental improvements that, frankly, won't be noticeable to a huge percentage of the people out there.  At this point what DAZ really needs is improved hair, a better system for draping clothing, and the ability to have soft body collisions, because until those are impoved the best bending figure in the world is still going to look a bit off. 

Hopefully we will get Dynamic hair and cloth in Daz Studio 5 or a big update coming later this year 

agent unawares

josephlemons69_4db0991b45 said:

CybersoxXIII said:

Singular Blues said:

 

The product cycle for all of those items was the same as the G3 cycle. 2 years. 2 Years of Genesis, 2 years of Genesis 2, and 2 years of Genesis 3.

I'm pretty sure it's not product cycle, but lack of sales.

Zevo's staples are a good example. The crop up like bad pennies. Because they are selling. Whoever made four arms didn't make four arms 2 because they stopped selling or because the product didn't return on the investment. Which is back to what I said before, about fringe stuff. You need people who can afford to have low returns to make it work.

I don't think a longer cycle changes those economics, because it doesn't change the time investment. It just means the market is either saturated with products, or people have gotten their fill, and are turning to the esoteric. And, neither scenario suggests sales will actually return the effort.

The fundamentals of the market either are inherently, or have become a kind of trap. And I'm not, myself, well versed in economics such that I can point the way out. I just can't see how more time changes the incentives enough to actually create the condition you want, where fringe stuff provide the return. If I could, I'd exploit it myself, since most of what I would like to do doesn't exist. I just don't have the time to make it, because it probably won't pay back.

I've fairly sure that you're partially right on the cycles vs sales angle.  The fact that the heavy discounting on the G3 rolled in so early, and that certain types of figures weren't even bothered for this pass before the next was phased in with... would seem to indicate that the policy is to reiiterate the top sellers as quickly as possible and let the PAs service the remainder of the market.  Hence, we got Dragon 3 and are still on Cat 1 and Dog 1, and we only got official teens for the girls for Genesis 3, whereas Genesis 2 had 2 for each sex, and we haven't seen any actual official kids since the kid morph for Genesis 1.  And yet, we keep hearing in the offical DAZ hype that this figure or that figure is the best selling one they've had by whatever arcane method they're using that month.  I don't think they're lying about it, but I suspect that the demand is becoming increasingly front loaded as each new character tackles smaller and smaller portions of the gene pool and the rewards of upgrading become less significant.  Someone earlier made the analogy about getting a new car every two years andd others have compared it to new phones, but there's a fundamental flaw in that argument.  People don't get a new Lexus, Beemer or iPhone every two years because there's a significant increase in features... I'd be willing to bet that half of the people with iPhones or the latest Android even know how to use half the capability of their previous devices.  Rather, the constant upgrading is about the perceived presitge of flashing the new hot toy in front of your friends' and coworkers' envious faces.  But with DAZ figures you really don't have it.  Yes, some people can croon in the forums about how this bends better or that rigging is superior, but when push comes to shove, we're at the point where what makes an impressive render has far less to do with the figure being used and much more to do with the renderer and the skills of the artist. Iray was a huge game changer in that respect, and G3F benefitted immeasurably from being the first figure to come in iray natively.  G8, so far, has only offered a fem minor incremental improvements that, frankly, won't be noticeable to a huge percentage of the people out there.  At this point what DAZ really needs is improved hair, a better system for draping clothing, and the ability to have soft body collisions, because until those are impoved the best bending figure in the world is still going to look a bit off. 

Hopefully we will get Dynamic hair and cloth in Daz Studio 5 or a big update coming later this year 

Hopefully. Clothing really is where DAZ falls behind right now. As nice as some sets are you move the figure and it falls apart.

3Diva

agent unawares said:

josephlemons69_4db0991b45 said:

CybersoxXIII said:

Singular Blues said:

 

The product cycle for all of those items was the same as the G3 cycle. 2 years. 2 Years of Genesis, 2 years of Genesis 2, and 2 years of Genesis 3.

I'm pretty sure it's not product cycle, but lack of sales.

Zevo's staples are a good example. The crop up like bad pennies. Because they are selling. Whoever made four arms didn't make four arms 2 because they stopped selling or because the product didn't return on the investment. Which is back to what I said before, about fringe stuff. You need people who can afford to have low returns to make it work.

I don't think a longer cycle changes those economics, because it doesn't change the time investment. It just means the market is either saturated with products, or people have gotten their fill, and are turning to the esoteric. And, neither scenario suggests sales will actually return the effort.

The fundamentals of the market either are inherently, or have become a kind of trap. And I'm not, myself, well versed in economics such that I can point the way out. I just can't see how more time changes the incentives enough to actually create the condition you want, where fringe stuff provide the return. If I could, I'd exploit it myself, since most of what I would like to do doesn't exist. I just don't have the time to make it, because it probably won't pay back.

I've fairly sure that you're partially right on the cycles vs sales angle.  The fact that the heavy discounting on the G3 rolled in so early, and that certain types of figures weren't even bothered for this pass before the next was phased in with... would seem to indicate that the policy is to reiiterate the top sellers as quickly as possible and let the PAs service the remainder of the market.  Hence, we got Dragon 3 and are still on Cat 1 and Dog 1, and we only got official teens for the girls for Genesis 3, whereas Genesis 2 had 2 for each sex, and we haven't seen any actual official kids since the kid morph for Genesis 1.  And yet, we keep hearing in the offical DAZ hype that this figure or that figure is the best selling one they've had by whatever arcane method they're using that month.  I don't think they're lying about it, but I suspect that the demand is becoming increasingly front loaded as each new character tackles smaller and smaller portions of the gene pool and the rewards of upgrading become less significant.  Someone earlier made the analogy about getting a new car every two years andd others have compared it to new phones, but there's a fundamental flaw in that argument.  People don't get a new Lexus, Beemer or iPhone every two years because there's a significant increase in features... I'd be willing to bet that half of the people with iPhones or the latest Android even know how to use half the capability of their previous devices.  Rather, the constant upgrading is about the perceived presitge of flashing the new hot toy in front of your friends' and coworkers' envious faces.  But with DAZ figures you really don't have it.  Yes, some people can croon in the forums about how this bends better or that rigging is superior, but when push comes to shove, we're at the point where what makes an impressive render has far less to do with the figure being used and much more to do with the renderer and the skills of the artist. Iray was a huge game changer in that respect, and G3F benefitted immeasurably from being the first figure to come in iray natively.  G8, so far, has only offered a fem minor incremental improvements that, frankly, won't be noticeable to a huge percentage of the people out there.  At this point what DAZ really needs is improved hair, a better system for draping clothing, and the ability to have soft body collisions, because until those are impoved the best bending figure in the world is still going to look a bit off. 

Hopefully we will get Dynamic hair and cloth in Daz Studio 5 or a big update coming later this year 

 

Hopefully. Clothing really is where DAZ falls behind right now. As nice as some sets are you move the figure and it falls apart.

What do you mean? 

agent unawares

divamakeup said:

agent unawares said:

josephlemons69_4db0991b45 said:

CybersoxXIII said:

Singular Blues said:

 

The product cycle for all of those items was the same as the G3 cycle. 2 years. 2 Years of Genesis, 2 years of Genesis 2, and 2 years of Genesis 3.

I'm pretty sure it's not product cycle, but lack of sales.

Zevo's staples are a good example. The crop up like bad pennies. Because they are selling. Whoever made four arms didn't make four arms 2 because they stopped selling or because the product didn't return on the investment. Which is back to what I said before, about fringe stuff. You need people who can afford to have low returns to make it work.

I don't think a longer cycle changes those economics, because it doesn't change the time investment. It just means the market is either saturated with products, or people have gotten their fill, and are turning to the esoteric. And, neither scenario suggests sales will actually return the effort.

The fundamentals of the market either are inherently, or have become a kind of trap. And I'm not, myself, well versed in economics such that I can point the way out. I just can't see how more time changes the incentives enough to actually create the condition you want, where fringe stuff provide the return. If I could, I'd exploit it myself, since most of what I would like to do doesn't exist. I just don't have the time to make it, because it probably won't pay back.

I've fairly sure that you're partially right on the cycles vs sales angle.  The fact that the heavy discounting on the G3 rolled in so early, and that certain types of figures weren't even bothered for this pass before the next was phased in with... would seem to indicate that the policy is to reiiterate the top sellers as quickly as possible and let the PAs service the remainder of the market.  Hence, we got Dragon 3 and are still on Cat 1 and Dog 1, and we only got official teens for the girls for Genesis 3, whereas Genesis 2 had 2 for each sex, and we haven't seen any actual official kids since the kid morph for Genesis 1.  And yet, we keep hearing in the offical DAZ hype that this figure or that figure is the best selling one they've had by whatever arcane method they're using that month.  I don't think they're lying about it, but I suspect that the demand is becoming increasingly front loaded as each new character tackles smaller and smaller portions of the gene pool and the rewards of upgrading become less significant.  Someone earlier made the analogy about getting a new car every two years andd others have compared it to new phones, but there's a fundamental flaw in that argument.  People don't get a new Lexus, Beemer or iPhone every two years because there's a significant increase in features... I'd be willing to bet that half of the people with iPhones or the latest Android even know how to use half the capability of their previous devices.  Rather, the constant upgrading is about the perceived presitge of flashing the new hot toy in front of your friends' and coworkers' envious faces.  But with DAZ figures you really don't have it.  Yes, some people can croon in the forums about how this bends better or that rigging is superior, but when push comes to shove, we're at the point where what makes an impressive render has far less to do with the figure being used and much more to do with the renderer and the skills of the artist. Iray was a huge game changer in that respect, and G3F benefitted immeasurably from being the first figure to come in iray natively.  G8, so far, has only offered a fem minor incremental improvements that, frankly, won't be noticeable to a huge percentage of the people out there.  At this point what DAZ really needs is improved hair, a better system for draping clothing, and the ability to have soft body collisions, because until those are impoved the best bending figure in the world is still going to look a bit off. 

Hopefully we will get Dynamic hair and cloth in Daz Studio 5 or a big update coming later this year 

 

Hopefully. Clothing really is where DAZ falls behind right now. As nice as some sets are you move the figure and it falls apart.

What do you mean? 

I mean there's a reason most clothing promos show really neutral poses. You start with wrinkles, well now your figure is doing a kick and there are folds where there should be stretches. You start without wrinkles, well now your figure bent their elbow to wave and there's a single dimensionless bend - wait no you started with wrinkles and your figure's elbow is straight and holy hell he really needs to iron his suit what happened at all the bends?

You start with a dress.

3Diva

agent unawares said:

divamakeup said:

agent unawares said:

josephlemons69_4db0991b45 said:

CybersoxXIII said:

Singular Blues said:

 

The product cycle for all of those items was the same as the G3 cycle. 2 years. 2 Years of Genesis, 2 years of Genesis 2, and 2 years of Genesis 3.

I'm pretty sure it's not product cycle, but lack of sales.

Zevo's staples are a good example. The crop up like bad pennies. Because they are selling. Whoever made four arms didn't make four arms 2 because they stopped selling or because the product didn't return on the investment. Which is back to what I said before, about fringe stuff. You need people who can afford to have low returns to make it work.

I don't think a longer cycle changes those economics, because it doesn't change the time investment. It just means the market is either saturated with products, or people have gotten their fill, and are turning to the esoteric. And, neither scenario suggests sales will actually return the effort.

The fundamentals of the market either are inherently, or have become a kind of trap. And I'm not, myself, well versed in economics such that I can point the way out. I just can't see how more time changes the incentives enough to actually create the condition you want, where fringe stuff provide the return. If I could, I'd exploit it myself, since most of what I would like to do doesn't exist. I just don't have the time to make it, because it probably won't pay back.

I've fairly sure that you're partially right on the cycles vs sales angle.  The fact that the heavy discounting on the G3 rolled in so early, and that certain types of figures weren't even bothered for this pass before the next was phased in with... would seem to indicate that the policy is to reiiterate the top sellers as quickly as possible and let the PAs service the remainder of the market.  Hence, we got Dragon 3 and are still on Cat 1 and Dog 1, and we only got official teens for the girls for Genesis 3, whereas Genesis 2 had 2 for each sex, and we haven't seen any actual official kids since the kid morph for Genesis 1.  And yet, we keep hearing in the offical DAZ hype that this figure or that figure is the best selling one they've had by whatever arcane method they're using that month.  I don't think they're lying about it, but I suspect that the demand is becoming increasingly front loaded as each new character tackles smaller and smaller portions of the gene pool and the rewards of upgrading become less significant.  Someone earlier made the analogy about getting a new car every two years andd others have compared it to new phones, but there's a fundamental flaw in that argument.  People don't get a new Lexus, Beemer or iPhone every two years because there's a significant increase in features... I'd be willing to bet that half of the people with iPhones or the latest Android even know how to use half the capability of their previous devices.  Rather, the constant upgrading is about the perceived presitge of flashing the new hot toy in front of your friends' and coworkers' envious faces.  But with DAZ figures you really don't have it.  Yes, some people can croon in the forums about how this bends better or that rigging is superior, but when push comes to shove, we're at the point where what makes an impressive render has far less to do with the figure being used and much more to do with the renderer and the skills of the artist. Iray was a huge game changer in that respect, and G3F benefitted immeasurably from being the first figure to come in iray natively.  G8, so far, has only offered a fem minor incremental improvements that, frankly, won't be noticeable to a huge percentage of the people out there.  At this point what DAZ really needs is improved hair, a better system for draping clothing, and the ability to have soft body collisions, because until those are impoved the best bending figure in the world is still going to look a bit off. 

Hopefully we will get Dynamic hair and cloth in Daz Studio 5 or a big update coming later this year 

 

Hopefully. Clothing really is where DAZ falls behind right now. As nice as some sets are you move the figure and it falls apart.

What do you mean? 

 

I mean there's a reason most clothing promos show really neutral poses. You start with wrinkles, well now your figure is doing a kick and there are folds where there should be stretches. You start without wrinkles, well now your figure bent their elbow to wave and there's a single dimensionless bend - wait no you started with wrinkles and your figure's elbow is straight and holy hell he really needs to iron his suit what happened at all the bends?

You start with a dress.

Ah, I see what you mean. By "falls apart" you just meant doesn't look natural/right.

And yes, there really needs to be a dynamic solution within Daz Studio for hair and clothing and other things that should be affected by gravity and physics.

xyer0

Ron Knights said:

xyer0 said:

I don't normally post a quote that I'm responding to. What are you talking about?! DAZ is a business. I'll buy their stuff if it suits my needs and if I have money that I want to spend. I've spent less over recent years because DAZ has a different a different approach to some matters than I prefer. I have no obligation to spend money at the DAZ store. They're running a business, and know the risks. 

 

I didn't think my post was so nuanced that someone would miss my meaning. No one has any obligation to spend money at the Daz store. And Daz has no obligation to continue operating a store or a website at which we can conveniently purchase goods and meet with like-minded individuals, respectively. However, stores generally remain in business if people buy their wares. And if Daz remains in business, they might continue to provide a means of income and creativity to a few thousand people who would otherwise be SOL until something else comes along.

cherpenbeck

Well, did you ever see a buyer who buys to keep a store in business? Anybody I know buys just because he either needs something or wants something.

exstarsis

Plenty of people these days buy to support the artisan. They can't be the bread-and-butter of anybody who wants to make a living being creative, but I know dozens of readers who buy books they'll possibly never have time to read, just to support a writer they like. I personally bought out TangoAlpha's catalog (pre-Containment) partially to 'complete the set' and partially because I wanted to help keep him making more stuff I love. Even though I'm not sure if I'll ever find a good use, personally, for the Rustic Theater.

Though basically you're right. It's just that sometimes what people want is 'to give money to this creator/store I like'. :-)

 

 

Cybersox

cherpenbeck said:

Well, did you ever see a buyer who buys to keep a store in business? Anybody I know buys just because he either needs something or wants something.

Yep.  In this industry, in fact. There have been more than a few points where Poserworld nearly went under and folks, like myself, who had lifetime memberships who bought things like backup CDs just to keep them from shutting the doors until they finally changed what was clearly an unsustainable business model. And there have been more than a few cases here at DAZ where people have specifically bought from certain vendors to help them through a rough patch.

Cybersox

dreamfarmer said:

Plenty of people these days buy to support the artisan. They can't be the bread-and-butter of anybody who wants to make a living being creative, but I know dozens of readers who buy books they'll possibly never have time to read, just to support a writer they like. I personally bought out TangoAlpha's catalog (pre-Containment) partially to 'complete the set' and partially because I wanted to help keep him making more stuff I love. Even though I'm not sure if I'll ever find a good use, personally, for the Rustic Theater.

Though basically you're right. It's just that sometimes what people want is 'to give money to this creator/store I like'. :-)

Exactly.  There may be a degree of self interest in it since what you're trying to preserve is a place to buy things that you like, but there's a long tradition in the arts of people paying to keep a venue up and running by buying season tickets to shows they may not see, for example.  A perfect example is PBS... what they get from government grants rarely covers their basic costs of operation, and it's pretty much a pot-shoot as to what they might be able to pick up with the funds they raise during their pledge drives. It's all about looking at the long term benefits rather than just the immediate.

Daikatana

I already have a list of things I will purchase  as budget permits for  G8 that I have already purchased for G2 and G3.  By doing so I will ensure that I have a ready to use library of  morphs, utilities for my hobby . Also I will be supporting the people who have created the products that were so useful and of such quality that they have become my "go to" solutions over 3 generations (and soon to be 4) of Genesis figures.  This is a win for both myself and the content creators.

 

 

Cybersox

Daikatana said:

I already have a list of things I will purchase  as budget permits for  G8 that I have already purchased for G2 and G3.  By doing so I will ensure that I have a ready to use library of  morphs, utilities for my hobby . Also I will be supporting the people who have created the products that were so useful and of such quality that they have become my "go to" solutions over 3 generations (and soon to be 4) of Genesis figures.  This is a win for both myself and the content creators.

Yeah, this is why even though I passed on M8 when he came out, I'm seriously considering the G8M version of George, as he turned out to be the unexpected star of my entire G3M lineup. I'm kind of surprised that DAZ didn't actually buy the character as a DO.

kyoto kid

RitaCeleste said:

Well, I don't need to keep up with trends.  I saved money decking out G3F and ignored the male.  I want to fix that and go back and buy more for the male.  I would rather keep adding to G3F and work on getting the male set up.  My budget is smaller so I know I can't afford to upgrade every two years.  I don't make money from my hobby so I have no reason to upgrade.  My budget doesn't allow me to deck out a model the way I want to in two years.  Rather than have a bunch of models with smaller closets so to speak, I just want to focus on one generation and making that generation as flexible as possible.  No one expects to own a new car every year and yet every year there is a new model.  I need lights and places and shaders, not more hair and dresses.  I am still shopping and struggling to stay within my budget.  I am not really saving money by sticking to the older models and not upgrading like clockwork,  I am getting items that were needful but not at the very top of my list.  Artists that would have missed a sale on an older item will get a sale because I am lagging in my ability to deck out a model but I am going to get those items and fully enjoy G3 before moving on.

...similar position here, though now on a fixed retirement income so what purchases I make really have to count. If I see something in say a Flash Sale or Fastgrab that is in my wishlist, I'll get that before buying anything else on the page. Like yourself I am content with G3 (both genders) and the one advantage of G8's release, more G3 items tend to be going on sale.  As I mentioned, I have the utilitites to remove and apply new eybrows and lashes which is one of the "native" features of G8.  I can also apply vascularity, blemishes, freckles (SBP3's overleays will work with any skin).as well as muscularity, cleaner bending, and "squish" effects with the tools I already have. In addition, I also use GenX2 to import morphs and shapes to further enhance the "gene pool" so to say giving me an even wider range of possibilities (unless someone steps in for the late Dimension3D, there probably will not be another update to GenX for G8).

Apologies for any typos, apparently the forum spell check isn't working again (even though I have it activated). 

kyoto kid

josephlemons69_4db0991b45 said:

CybersoxXIII said:

Singular Blues said:

 

The product cycle for all of those items was the same as the G3 cycle. 2 years. 2 Years of Genesis, 2 years of Genesis 2, and 2 years of Genesis 3.

I'm pretty sure it's not product cycle, but lack of sales.

Zevo's staples are a good example. The crop up like bad pennies. Because they are selling. Whoever made four arms didn't make four arms 2 because they stopped selling or because the product didn't return on the investment. Which is back to what I said before, about fringe stuff. You need people who can afford to have low returns to make it work.

I don't think a longer cycle changes those economics, because it doesn't change the time investment. It just means the market is either saturated with products, or people have gotten their fill, and are turning to the esoteric. And, neither scenario suggests sales will actually return the effort.

The fundamentals of the market either are inherently, or have become a kind of trap. And I'm not, myself, well versed in economics such that I can point the way out. I just can't see how more time changes the incentives enough to actually create the condition you want, where fringe stuff provide the return. If I could, I'd exploit it myself, since most of what I would like to do doesn't exist. I just don't have the time to make it, because it probably won't pay back.

I've fairly sure that you're partially right on the cycles vs sales angle.  The fact that the heavy discounting on the G3 rolled in so early, and that certain types of figures weren't even bothered for this pass before the next was phased in with... would seem to indicate that the policy is to reiiterate the top sellers as quickly as possible and let the PAs service the remainder of the market.  Hence, we got Dragon 3 and are still on Cat 1 and Dog 1, and we only got official teens for the girls for Genesis 3, whereas Genesis 2 had 2 for each sex, and we haven't seen any actual official kids since the kid morph for Genesis 1.  And yet, we keep hearing in the offical DAZ hype that this figure or that figure is the best selling one they've had by whatever arcane method they're using that month.  I don't think they're lying about it, but I suspect that the demand is becoming increasingly front loaded as each new character tackles smaller and smaller portions of the gene pool and the rewards of upgrading become less significant.  Someone earlier made the analogy about getting a new car every two years andd others have compared it to new phones, but there's a fundamental flaw in that argument.  People don't get a new Lexus, Beemer or iPhone every two years because there's a significant increase in features... I'd be willing to bet that half of the people with iPhones or the latest Android even know how to use half the capability of their previous devices.  Rather, the constant upgrading is about the perceived presitge of flashing the new hot toy in front of your friends' and coworkers' envious faces.  But with DAZ figures you really don't have it.  Yes, some people can croon in the forums about how this bends better or that rigging is superior, but when push comes to shove, we're at the point where what makes an impressive render has far less to do with the figure being used and much more to do with the renderer and the skills of the artist. Iray was a huge game changer in that respect, and G3F benefitted immeasurably from being the first figure to come in iray natively.  G8, so far, has only offered a fem minor incremental improvements that, frankly, won't be noticeable to a huge percentage of the people out there.  At this point what DAZ really needs is improved hair, a better system for draping clothing, and the ability to have soft body collisions, because until those are impoved the best bending figure in the world is still going to look a bit off. 

Hopefully we will get Dynamic hair and cloth in Daz Studio 5 or a big update coming later this year 

...and a new cat and dog that bend better than the old Mil versions.  When free posing MilCat in a characteristic "cat" position, I often get deformation of limbs and joints that are unnatrual and unsightly.  This is why I use domestic animals very sparingly in my work (and usually then only in the background). As I understand, Alessandro is working on new cat and dog models (that will also take advantage of LAMH and the LAMH free player) so there is hope.

Oso3D

You know, I don't care a huge amount about the bending, though it certainly would be nice.

But I just made a morph for milDog that I can't effectively distribute because it doesn't use DS stuff and I'd have to figure out how to make Poser injection morphs and AAARGH.

I ended up making something decent starting from a horse, but yee gods.

 

agent unawares

DAZ moving away from injectable morphs to figures that automatically loaded all the dials and read morph data as needed was truly a huge step forward. I'd love to see evolution on that same level again.

Havos

kyoto kid said:

RitaCeleste said:

Well, I don't need to keep up with trends.  I saved money decking out G3F and ignored the male.  I want to fix that and go back and buy more for the male.  I would rather keep adding to G3F and work on getting the male set up.  My budget is smaller so I know I can't afford to upgrade every two years.  I don't make money from my hobby so I have no reason to upgrade.  My budget doesn't allow me to deck out a model the way I want to in two years.  Rather than have a bunch of models with smaller closets so to speak, I just want to focus on one generation and making that generation as flexible as possible.  No one expects to own a new car every year and yet every year there is a new model.  I need lights and places and shaders, not more hair and dresses.  I am still shopping and struggling to stay within my budget.  I am not really saving money by sticking to the older models and not upgrading like clockwork,  I am getting items that were needful but not at the very top of my list.  Artists that would have missed a sale on an older item will get a sale because I am lagging in my ability to deck out a model but I am going to get those items and fully enjoy G3 before moving on.

...similar position here, though now on a fixed retirement income so what purchases I make really have to count. If I see something in say a Flash Sale or Fastgrab that is in my wishlist, I'll get that before buying anything else on the page. Like yourself I am content with G3 (both genders) and the one advantage of G8's release, more G3 items tend to be going on sale.  As I mentioned, I have the utilitites to remove and apply new eybrows and lashes which is one of the "native" features of G8.  I can also apply vascularity, blemishes, freckles (SBP3's overleays will work with any skin).as well as muscularity, cleaner bending, and "squish" effects with the tools I already have. In addition, I also use GenX2 to import morphs and shapes to further enhance the "gene pool" so to say giving me an even wider range of possibilities (unless someone steps in for the late DimensionTheory, there probably will not be another update to GenX for G8).

Apologies for any typos, apparently the forum spell check isn't working again (even though I have it activated). 

I assume you meant Dimension3D, I believe DimensionTheory is still very much with us (given they released something new today)

kyoto kid

...yes, thank you. I am one of those people who is bad at names, especially ones that are similar. Fixed the original post.

Serene Night

This is just my opinion but... Genesis 8 appears to be just genesis 3 with a few tweaks. . In fact the gens on the male version are genesis 3. There are some slight differences, but I don't see a huge reason to upgrade if you are happy with genesis 3 because they pretty much the same thing. That said, the base is free, and you can transfer your morphs and figures  and they are compatible with gen 3, so it is easy to use Gen 8 for no money if one wants. I just think its a bit odd to call this a new version, when it is essentially mostly the same figure. Perhaps it should've been an update ?

The male body has some improvements. The female body and expressions are improved. The male figure DOES have some issues I've found. The necks can be weird, the head is large and blocky, the expressions don't have the grace the female verisons do, especially the positive ones like smile and flirt... They look odd and off   the male hands have no detail and look off to me. There is an issue with the arms remaining unusually flexed in unflexed positions. The mouth is awkwardly placed and lower than would be normally considered attractive.

The lack of HD morphs is needed to utilize these characters effectively if you want realism.

That said, I like aspects of 8. But I think the males still need some improving. I also feel that it is unlikely to happen.

 

wolf359

Someone earlier made the analogy about getting a new car every two years andd others have compared it to new phones, but there's a fundamental flaw in that argument.  People don't get a new Lexus, Beemer or iPhone every two years because there's a significant increase in features... I'd be willing to bet that half of the people with iPhones or the latest Android even know how to use half the capability of their previous devices.  Rather, the constant upgrading is about the perceived presitge of flashing the new hot toy in front of your friends' and coworkers' envious faces.  But with DAZ figures you really don't have it.  Yes, some people can croon in the forums about how this bends better or that rigging is superior, but when push comes to shove, we're at the point where what makes an impressive render has far less to do with the figure being used and much more to do with the renderer and the skills of the artist. 

THIS!!!! ^

alienarea

I started with DAZ shortly before G3 was released. I bought a lot of G3 stuff over the last two years, and it works on G8 mostly, but with limitations.

I also bought a new computer recently, and instead of copying my library I installed everything from scratch, so I could skip items no longer needed.

It's true that you can get most of the nee features with G3 as well, but I came to like G8 better quickly.

What I really need is a shoulder-length hair that morphs anywhere, ideally fibermesh.

Ron Knights

A few years ago I made it a point to catch up with Genesis 3, and abandon the older versions of the characters in "Marlin's World." None of the characters really saw any official life as a comic, but I thought it would be fun to do new versions of the characters. I even got George into the mix. But there is still the lack of variety in Real World Clothes. I was out of touch with DAZ for a few months, and now Genesis 8 is here. Even George has a Genesis 8 version! Oh but wait, we still don't have much in the way of real world clothes.

I still haven't dealt with the fact that iRay has overtaken 3Delight as a rendering engine. It's hard to justify spending money on a PC just so I can use iRay. I still don't see any compelling Genesis 8 content that suits my needs.

Mendoman

Maybe it's just me, but it feels like nothing new and exciting has been released since G8 launch. I don't mean the lack of new G8 improvements, but the content for the new figure also. Every morning I've been checking if shop has gotten something new and interesting, and pretty much every time it's the same old. 4 out of 5 new releases feels old, since I can just look at my library, and see that I already have the same product or at least something similar for G3. There's some nice environments released every now and then, and those are something I have bought, since I can use them with my G3 figures, but then the rest are overpriced tutorials. It's almost like PAs have switched to easy mode since Daz did it too. At this current PA sale I've been checking mega fast grab always first, not the new releases. That's quite sad....

 

I started using DS around the time G3 was released, and have been investing quite a lot during the past 2 years, but then everything was new and shiny for me. I don't know, maybe it was the same last time for old users too, but at least there was that new Iray engine, that was something new and shiny. This time I'm really struggling keep interest.

kyoto kid

Ron Knights said:

A few years ago I made it a point to catch up with Genesis 3, and abandon the older versions of the characters in "Marlin's World." None of the characters really saw any official life as a comic, but I thought it would be fun to do new versions of the characters. I even got George into the mix. But there is still the lack of variety in Real World Clothes. I was out of touch with DAZ for a few months, and now Genesis 8 is here. Even George has a Genesis 8 version! Oh but wait, we still don't have much in the way of real world clothes.

I still haven't dealt with the fact that iRay has overtaken 3Delight as a rendering engine. It's hard to justify spending money on a PC just so I can use iRay. I still don't see any compelling Genesis 8 content that suits my needs.

...for more "real world" clothes I suggest checking WIllmaps Digital Creations site.  All are free and she does wonderful work.  She's even released clothing for G8 but also hasn't abandoned older verisons of Genesis.

JoeQuick

I'm not sure of the mechanics behind it, but I find that G8 bends a lot better from my perspective as a content creator.  When I made the Bear for G3M, I found myself having to make JCMs for the fingers.  FOR THE FINGERS! I had never had to do that before. That was a substantial increase in workload just to make the kind of content that adds to the versatility of the platform but doesn't frankly make a lot of money. The background corrective morphs for Ms Hedgehog (G8F) were nowhere near as overwhelming, and I've got a horror creature making it's way through pass for G8M that only required corrective morphs for the eye blinks.   Likewise, I'm currently making a snowman, and while I don't think I'll get off as easy as I did for my Haloween Suprise, it still seems that most of the limbs require less corrective work for extreme shapes.