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The only reason I jumped on G3 was the hope of doing something professionally with the figure. Of course, I did that 2 months before G8F was released. ...
Now, I figure if I'm going to do something with G8, I'll just use the base figure and not worry about it. That also helpfully means I don't have to worry about stray morphs I didn't realize I was using or whatever.
It DOES mean I won't have access to genitals to make skin textures, but meh; I don't ever render genitals and don't have much interest making textures for them anyway, and I'm not going to spend $90 for the privilege of maybe making slightly more money some day eventually.
Heh, I have to admit that I almost slipped once too, and https://www.daz3d.com/fwsa-analia-hd-for-victoria-8 was already in my shopping cart, but luckily I noticed that she was V8 based, so it was really easy to resist the temptation. Now that most of the new items are for G8, resisting those impulse buys has actually become quite easy. Well, or at least it gets easier every day. Dazholics probably should have their own 3-step program, and fist step is to wait for next generation release, and make your run then.
constip ...
loll doh, coffee on my keyboard
+1
G8 is great for PA's who will make money from the
Ohhh!!.Me too!!, mutual validation , impulse buying that occurs with each version release.
It is also great for sales because it further subverts the orginal
paradigm that made the genesis figure superior to its poser tech based,
vestigial predecessors.
That paradigm being the ability to have one figure
and create many diverse character& Creatures yourself
and have ALL of your clothing content work with your inspired & imaginative creations.
This aspect of the genesis line has essentially been abandoned
in favor of canned "character" bundles with shapes that are decided by the
Merchants like the bad old days of poser4 with "rakishi" or"DinaV".
I find it quite humorous that there is so much oozing praise for the
"improved" expressions of G8.
considering that every time anyone questioned the usefulness
of the G3 Face bone rigging we were quickly "corrected"
with the gratuitous, marketing hype driven claim, that those new face bones
would be the source of improved expressions.
And when we asked where are the G3 creature morphs for us Sci fi/Fantasy filmmakers/Illustrators,
we were told to just use the GENX2 plugin to bring your creature morphs from G1.
Suddenly we have G8 and the sad demise of Mr sesseler(Dimension3D)
bringing an apparent end to
GENX2 plugin updates and the mad scramble for all manner of complicated,
labor intensive ,manual hacks to get your older
morphs moved yet again up to"the most backward compatible genesis ever"
So to the OP,
I say yes there are reasons for "upgrading" to G8
but from my perspective those reasons all involve masochism& self flagellation.
I want to do animation. So far I have resisted G8 because even after re-buying everything for a new generation of figures, the same animation problems would remain. I don't see any connection between investing all over again and getting either easier animation tools in DS or bug fixes in Carrara.
damnit Wolf you would have to make it sound exciting....
add hot pokers for getting them into Carrara
Remember those new twist bones, that broke
G3's direct compatibility with All existing character motion systems & BVH data,
...Well they are there to make G3/G8 "more compatible with other
programs" or .."Thats how the "pros" handle limb twists."
But curiously Daz's own efforts to enter the lucritive multi billion dollar
Game content industry, deploys the Genesis 2 rig, not their lates flagship
Models.
But I must humbly admit that the New G3 rigging did properly inspire me to get serious about
upgrading my modeling skills to continue to support Genesis 2 with new content of my own design
essentially liberating me from the fickle& fleeting vicissitudes
of the Daz content market.
Thus Ironically I owe Daz a debt of gratitude
THANK YOU DAZ INC.!!!!!
No, no, the Emperor's new clothes are astounding and wonderful, as all the 'best people' can plainly see!
Honestly I completely agree with you; the 'better bends' sales spiel always makes me roll my eyes. IMO he last figure that had any real serious visible bending issues was V4, and with fixes like Xameva's Perfect V4 series even that could be fairly easily solved. I nearly decided to stick with M4/V4, just because of the vast amount of pose sets I had acquired and organized according to motion type, but in the end I have (mainly) made the move to Genesis1; now that I can easily take clothing from any figure and put it on my Genesis1, with the autoconforming was enough to sway me over (the fact that there's a V4 to Genesis Pose Converter also helped).
I generally use M4/V4 skins as well, they look great and I don't have to parse the labyrinth of 'which UV mat was this character for?' Sometimes I use Genesis1 skins as well, but very rarely do I use any of the newer character textures, although I do have quite a numbrer of them.
I can buy clothing outfits from any generation and put it on Genesis1, and even make it fit better in some cases than it did on the original figure. The clones help of course, but I have the advantage of using Carrara, and once I've re-rigged the bone structure to match Genesis1, it's very easy to use soft select on the clothing to gently pull any parts that aren't correct into the perfect place. Don't even need the clones, to be honest, though they make it simpler, could just take the clothing obj file, move it into the general position on my Gen1, use transfer utility to rig it, then bring it into Carrara and model in the assembly room to pull/push all the bits into the right places to make a new fit that works great. Easy peasy. I have the option to use any version of Genesis, but I choose Genesis1, so I don't think you're crazy at all if you choose an earlier generation over the latest razzle dazzle.
One good thing about Genesis 8 though: Older Genesis content will be even less expensive, so hurrah for that :)
I suspect many users would rather just plop a bunch of premade character models in a scene and render it than put forth the effort to create them from the existing Genesis base figures, so that's why you see so many people asking for things they could be doing themselves if they were serious about wanting them. I also suspect that some folks need to learn, as you have, how to make the stuff that vendors aren't providing because not enough people are buying it.
Geez, no one cares or usually even knows if G2 or G8 is used in most recent renders that have been updated to use the newest iRay shader settings so I don't get this silliness of complaining about people spending their money on their hobby as they prefer.
I prefer G8 and I spend my money on G8. I don't seek validation from others in my choice. I read of and trust what DAZ 3D has told me is technically accurate. I know of the pros and cons and I made my choice. Learning to leverage that technology is part of my hobby. Good thing is if I find that doing some activities is easier to do in Genesis 2 I can still do that as I have those models too and I can even upgrade their surfaces very easily with new shader rendering technology.
I think the "complaint" (or at least why I started this thread) is because many expected more from the new generation.
Basically, I want to know what the point of G8 is supposed to be. At least, the point beyond "more money for the same content," which is what I'm seeing a lot of in the shop. I haven't seen anything from G8 that looks significantly better than what I can easily achieve with G7. In fact, in general they look more artificial to me. There's something about the skin shader that feels like a downgrade.
It just feels like DAZ is resting on their laurels a little. Maybe there's big changes coming soon as have been hinted at.... but I somehow doubt they'll be mindblowing.
Well DAZ 3D does spell out what the technical improvements are so really it doesn't hold water to claim it is the same or they expected more. How can you expect more when what is there is explicitly spelled out for you and you can decide yes or no. I don't expect to get $15 in change when the register plainly states I am getting $5 in change.
That said I do expect major DAZ Studio improvements but that will would independent of Genesis models but they have not promised anything explicit in that case. The post I'm referring to may well be referring to future model products based on Genesis 8 and not the SW DAZ Studio.
victoria 8 makes no sense
they baked the scaling into the body slider. why do that? it doesnt muck up xfering to clothes?
and then around 3 of the left toe nails, something is horribly awry there.
kwdmakesnosense
...+1 for the Carrara comment, which is why I stll have G2 versions of my charaters.
Maybe you're missing my point. I'm not saying DAZ misled anybody, I'm saying the technical improvements they spelled out are fairly insignificant. I expected more from the next generation after G3.
Technical significance or insignificance is subjective per person really without some sort of defining standards with which to measure against. I been offered no yardstick except what I've learned from Unity 3D, DAZ 3D and Smith Micro personally and for that reason I bought Genesis 8.
Personally, I think to add all those HD facial expressions is no minor technical feat even if I would like for the DAZ 3D to add some semblance of a psuedo-muscular system under all that that skinned mesh for even better and more realistic control although I'm pretty sure such technical algorithms to do such a thing have not been invented although JCM & MCM and those sort things hint at that sort of control. More people than ever decided V8 was worth upgrading to in comparison to V7 or prior generations.
All that said I still saw some 10 year old Plushies & Gumdrops today that I intend to buy that are positively antiquated technically and rarely used now but if you want to do that sort of render they are still great. And I still intend to buy the Mermaid bundle for Callie and lots of older tech models and use some of it more and more frequently I imagine.
i like those man creases
What kind of big changes did you expect? As some mentioned we are already getting to the area where noticable improvements will get smaller and smaller. For the average images where it lacks usually are the hair, body not beeing a soft body, clothes not fitting dynamicaly and the skin/eyes not looking 100% real. But those are all things which can be improved with the current figure without changing it.
Lets say they had trippled the base vertices count. Would that really create a noticable change for the average render in realism vs what we have now with hd morphs+subdivision?
I expected just what you wrote: Dynamic hair and / or clothing, soft body, and better animation support. That would've been a true "generational" leap.
Steve spoke about the second/2 part of the year, not the end of the year (so 'ill guess September)
And if it's all true about dynamics, then we need a good workable animation setup in dazstudio first!
There is nothing better as Marvelousdesigner momently in a hobby $ range of good/best cloth sim with GPU support included.
The last thing i would like to see is not a closed but an open platform with good export to other soft like modo, maya, blender,...
Build the figures that way so it's horrible to export of lots of tweak work, so they only working in daz programs is the biggest mistake they could do!
As a marketing excercise it was pretty brilliant to get everyone to re-buy all the stuff they already had for G3. The artistic advantage for artists is very minimal IMHO.
These things are things that would have to be added to the software, not strictly part of the model and rigging of the G8 figures themselves. As for the skin shaders, I think they're more realistic in that you're not seeing every detail under all lighting conditions.
I really love the excellent new face rigging of G8; the separatedly morphable upper and lower lashes are another fine feature. But there are negative points, too: As mentioned in other threads, G8F's feet remember the V4 standard, and the fact that G8M base comes without eye moisture/eye reflection is also not very amusing.
Agreed
The problem I see others experiencing, is that the newer figures
do not offer enough of an incease in total user value justify
the time& expense required to get it back to the level of usabilty
of the previous generation.
Yet it is being marketed as though it represents some major improvement
over the previous generation when ,in many aspects it is a step backwards
in usability.
I know it is just marketing&business, but as an animator I find the
claim "The Most backward compatible Genesis ever" to be a rather
cynical insult to my intellect.
Particularly when you consider that I have BVH motion files from the late
1990's that work perfectly with Genesis 1& 2.
I'm still kicking myself for jumping on board with G3. I resisted a long time and should have stuck to my guns. Ah well.
Well I did get the Ivan bundle because it was the first Genesis 3 male
prefab that had a truly masculine Alpha male look since"Boris"
for the G2 males.
I even made some clothing oufits for both the G3 Male & female
but I never went "all in" because of the extra labor involved in gettin animation Data
onto the G3 figures and as for G8...?? Dead on Arrival for me
I don't do animation so it wasn't that obstacle.
i think the big push was all the cool G3 monster stuff. I'm a sucker for cool monsters
I think the updates will hopefully precipitate a move to some pleasant surprises in the future for DAZ users by way of dynamic clothing, hair, and better animation capabilities. I would not hold my breath nor take the plunge on a big investment until this is confirmed but... :)