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Correct sir!!
Actually I can confirm that animated poser Pz2 files and BVH from
from V4/M4 era will work on G1/G2 WITHOUT conversion
due to the bone hierarchies being essentially the same.
and the ragdoll physics BVH files I export from Endorphin
work on G2 for this same reason.
There are converters (paid & free) to retarget motion from G2 to G3
But the extra layer of work is not worth the effort IMHO
as I have way more creature /alien morph variety for G2 and I am a content developer who
can support G2 with new clothing content indefinitely.
I agree here, felt the same with G3, its also a problem that it isnt muscle flowing topology. I would very much like to have more mesh to work with for making morphs, I dont like relying on PAs to possibly make what I desire with HD, some things I know they never will. But this is what we have.
I don't normally post a quote that I'm responding to. What are you talking about?! DAZ is a business. I'll buy their stuff if it suits my needs and if I have money that I want to spend. I've spent less over recent years because DAZ has a different a different approach to some matters than I prefer. I have no obligation to spend money at the DAZ store. They're running a business, and know the risks.
....for some of us the downside is everything soon shifts to the new generataion leaving the previous one behind.
My renders have a lot of very muscular athletes, barbarians and monsters.
Most of them meet my level of expectation with M4 and Freak4. 
A couple are in G1 and G2. But G3 has been a major disappointment.
I have, however, invested now about $75 in G8 and his essential morphs and I absolutely love the muscularity it has shown me so far. BUT, I don't like the basic texture at all. I've gotten pretty good at 3Delight rendering but the G8 basic 3Delight texture just doesn't do it for me.
So I tried it with Iray textures and rendering and can see that it's a very steep learning curve (not to mention another $1000 in hardware) to even approach what I can easily and quickly get out of 3Delight with M4 and F4 (and to a lesser extent G1 and G2). 
So, in my option, G8 and his derivatives, despite his excellent massive muscularity, will be benched for a long while yet... Unless some super cool monster with a demonstratably satisfying 3Delight texture comes along.
If it helps I intend to release at least a few G8M skins free, Iray and 3dl, but they are likely to be aliens...
I haven't gone the way of G8 and don't really intend to, but I have noticed that the quality of clothing continues to improve with each new generation. Not really G8 related but I'd like to congratulate vendors for products I couldn't have dreamed of way back when I started in this game. Credit where it's due. Cheers.
Do I need a new car? Same question. Same answer. Same outcome.
Is the new car worth the investment?
But also : Is the new car worth the risk because there will be a newer one in few years.
Result => In 2 years my "now new" car will be the "old" car.
Do we buy a new car every 2 years?
a car do you really need in life to move in the world, a 3d figure you don't really need to life it's just a hobby.
now everyone leave poser, as most make the jump, we all are waiting on a fast enough realtime alternative for collisions, dynamics hair/cloth and a workable IK/FK/CK animation pipeline here. Studio have to fix what poser never was (poser never was realtime, but calculates to much)
Car is a stupid example. Why not compare to phones, or Game Consoles? Either way people will buy what they want. Nobody really needs the latest phone, everybody wants it, and they come out annually. Welcome to how the world works. If you happy with 10 year old content then great. Me on the other hand, I like to keep up with the trends. This is also a hobby for me, and I will spend money on it and I don't really need to justify why. I will buy something if I want it. Simple as that really:) If you want to use the latest figures great. If you don't, well that's your choice, nobody is forcing you to.
...
But, but, but ... Don't you see? Everyone has to get exactly what they want, their way. If they don't, well that just WRONG. Great injustice. It's all a personal attack really.
Not that I don't see the opposite side of things. Much of what goes on in phones and game consoles is not fundamental to the technology, but just a means of churing an economy that would not otherwise exist. Artificial markets, if you will. So, I do get that people react negatively to the more obvious example Daz is running. (The figures are just data. A phone you can touch, which makes it easier to pretend it's not a kind of con job.)
The thing is, if Daz were not making that planned obsolescence play, the end result would be similiar. Possibly worse. Probably not better. New tech could dominate the market, and no figure would last long without needing an update. And each update would break compatibility with something such that a figure and the items it could use would be an ill defined cloud around the the release date of the last update. Or, old tech would dominate. Nothing would change, nothing would improve, no one would be able to make money and the market would die off. The result would proably be in between, but the practical results would be little different that what we have now.
Vendors, as their interests went, would tend to use the newer things to do the things they couldn't do before. As a result, what they vend would tend to follow the most advanced releases. Some folks would figure out how to make some things work for older stuff, which they might sell or might not (iray conversion for non-iray figures, new stuff for old figures that works with new software. conversion scripts). People would complain that the new tech in one item isn't really so different from the last release or that the new tech is only different to make it incompatible with the last release.
Really, the only practical difference between a world without Daz timing releases every 2 years, and one where they do is that there would be a vocal crowd of complainers who say that the rest of the software industry has 2 or 3 year cycles of managed development between releases, and its all very much more predictable that way. :D
Good explanation by Singular Blues.... have to keep the economic gears turning. This situation has more of an effect on "push button" artists than anyone else. They have to go with the flow of the market, they really don't have much choice. The dictators of the content will decide what's available for them to consume. I can understand their concerns. But this is also a great opportunity to take your destiny into your own hands, if you are inclined to do so. But not everyone is willing or has the time to create their own content.
Big downside to 2 year cycle is that it discourages unusual or fringe products.
This is quite true and I certainly understand the need for planned obsolescence
in a consumption based economy.
However the OP seemed, to me at least ,to be soliciting opinions
from the forum users both subjective & objective.
So for me it is always a matter of wether the product achieves my
personal creative or utilitarian objectives in its current iteration
or will the newer product result in a demonstrably better/more efficient
user experience and outcome.
Just using smart phone for an example
I need a big screen ,options to expand storage an overall durability
I do not plan to intentionally immerse my phone in a swimmiing pool
nor do I fancy myself a "pro" Photographer needing 20 megapixel capabilty.
thus a two or three year old samsung will suffice for my usage.
On the matter of G8 and even G3.
As an animator neither of these figures meet the threshold of:
achieving my personal creative or utilitarian objectives in their current iteration
resulting in a demonstrably better/more efficient
user experience and outcome.
In fact they both represent a signifigant detriment to my animation workflow
for reasons already documented ,on these forums, by myself and many others
Well, I don't need to keep up with trends. I saved money decking out G3F and ignored the male. I want to fix that and go back and buy more for the male. I would rather keep adding to G3F and work on getting the male set up. My budget is smaller so I know I can't afford to upgrade every two years. I don't make money from my hobby so I have no reason to upgrade. My budget doesn't allow me to deck out a model the way I want to in two years. Rather than have a bunch of models with smaller closets so to speak, I just want to focus on one generation and making that generation as flexible as possible. No one expects to own a new car every year and yet every year there is a new model. I need lights and places and shaders, not more hair and dresses. I am still shopping and struggling to stay within my budget. I am not really saving money by sticking to the older models and not upgrading like clockwork, I am getting items that were needful but not at the very top of my list. Artists that would have missed a sale on an older item will get a sale because I am lagging in my ability to deck out a model but I am going to get those items and fully enjoy G3 before moving on.
The lack of a market for unusual or fringe products discourages unusual or fringe products. The fact the content delivery owners have a virtual lock on content delivery discourages fringe of unusual.
If folks had a real sense of "make community" around making for the these figures, then you'd see people investing time in the finge or unusual. As it is, people scramble to make any money at all, while Daz focuses on making the most profitable choices, and no one else really knows how to do the thing, and is willing to share the results (which is down to lack of community to begin with). In short, there just isn't enough infrastructure for fringe and unusual. It's not down to the figure base. I know enough about Daz rigging tools to know that if it was made fore one generation, it is fairly easy to port it to another. The limitation is not the figure. It's the time. Not the timing. Just the time. Even with 3 year or 4 years, peope will keep making variations on High heel shoes before doing something "fringe" because on sells, and the other does not.
If you want fringe, you need to organize the fringe so that a vendor thinks that they are worth the effort, or they can build a collective skill set and make their own stuff.. Lacking those things, it doesn't matter what your product cycle looks like, the products won't change.
What would be an example of an unusual or fringe item?
That's excellent to know, very useful and again makes it so that Genesis1/2 has the clear advantage. I don't really understand why in making the newer generations they couldn't have made them so that the newer figures could use the animation resources of the prior generations. Seems like that puts the newer generations at a steep disadvantage. Although I do realize the large majority of daz customers likely aren't doing animations, but instead are focused on still renders.
BTW, from your posts it seems like you mainly work with Genesis2, if so I was curious whether Mimic works iwth gen2 or whether you use a different lip synch solution.
Hi
yes Genesis-2 M/F are my primary figures
for stills & animations and I make my own clothing so Daz PA support is not a factor for me
For lipsych I use the old but venerable Mimic pro3
It uses a G2 exported to poser CR2 to generate Lipsynch.
A fringed blanket for the Mil Horse 2? In the DAZ world, it generally means anything besides a revealing skin tight outfit with odd cutouts and 5" spiked heels... er, for the female figures, that is. One for Dante or George would probably definitely qualify as fringe. And, strangely, no DAZ PA has yet dared to tackle a pink and purple ponygirl outfit for the Bronies. Although, come to think of it, I'd almost certainly buy that too...
That said, I think we've actually been a little better at getting those "where are they?" real world items with G3F. We've new had western and business wear, new police, doctor, and firefighter uniforms, even a male Arabian fantasy type outfit and some rotted clothing.
I have a shocking and perfect reason to upgrade or not. But it's so mind-boggling that I'm going to have to ask you all to sit down before I reaveal this amazing information to you.
Are you sitting?
All right. Prepare yourselves. Because, this WILL shock you.
The only reason to upgrade to G8 or not upgrade is:.....
BECAUSE YOU WANT TO!!!!
Isn't it amazing!! If you follow this reasoning in you entire life, you will never be frustrated again!!! It will free you of all those silly soceiatal pressures and you will feel so relaxed and happy! I know, this is the greatest thing to ever be revealed. Please, hold your applause. I do this for you all.
Clothing that's dirty and tattered (or at least versions thereof ideally), stuff like the Minotaur and Reptilians (which I appreciate greatly that I even have the G2 versions), animals, fantasy creatures (tho HerschelHoffmeyer seems to have that nailed down in a HUGE way....lol). Granted, Rawart takes care of a lot of the weirder, more monstery stuff, but he's only one person. Now at least we have JoshCrockett (whose morphs I adore) who turns more alien stuff out. There are a few who DO make fringe stuff, but they are few and far between ;). Clothing makers seem to think everyone is always clean as a whistle too and that shoes don't get scuffs or dirt on them :P. I could make the textures myself because I'm more than capable of doing so, but I'm only one person too. LOL
Oh, and items like your Lyra deserve a mention too....I find myself using her over and over and over again not because she's the most beautiful in the bunch but because she looks different than the rest in the bunch....hehe. I don't have to have beautiful, but I sure do love "different".
As for the original subject of the thread, I'm liking G8. Of course, I don't do animations or I'd probably like it a lot less ;). The faces look more realistic to my eye and the accessories that have come out for it so far generally seem better made than in the past.
Laurie
You have identified a telling and sobering truth. Daz Content developers follow the money and the money is in its core market: Skimpware, buduoir, dare I even say soft porn. If your art ventures out of those areas, you are better served by learning your craft. There is nothing more liberating than self-reliance.
Fringe/unusual stuff:
https://www.daz3d.com/four-arms-for-genesis
https://www.daz3d.com/creature-creator-add-ons-for-genesis-2-male-s
https://www.daz3d.com/octogenesis
https://www.daz3d.com/cobra-king-hd
And that's just a quick peek at stuff I've personally purchased.
Note that the big problem is HD morphs and geografts, neither of which can be transferred across figures. (Though if you have the tools, you can make a Normal map out of HD morphs, but you need software most users don't have)
A simplistic 'well, supply/demand, duh' approach is seriously missing the big picture; once I have, say, Zev0's aging morphs, I don't have much interest in ANOTHER set of aging morphs for the same figure. So when I'm interested in spending money on some bright new shiny, maybe Zev0 does something more unusual, like a set of alien morphs or whatever.
The demand is going to reflect the investment and prior library for a given figure. Generally, people want a few different pretty faces and tools, which is why the 'big grab bag of morphs' is one of the first products that comes out, and, I would assume, any subsequent morph set is going to have a harder case to make.
When you have a short generation cycle, what it means is that vendors and customers are going to focus on the 'core' stuff and never get around to making the other stuff.
I assume the logic is that if the cycle was longer, the bulk of customers simply would stop buying as much stuff. I'm not sure about that, but... my point remains.
Shorter cycle means less unusual/fringe stuff gets made. Which I don't like.
Tell me why 'm not so surprised anymore when a new figure shows up? Why i would be very more surprised, with big/huge software evolutions to handle and play with the figures and all content i all ready have?
Since realtime rendering in unreal, and zbrush for sculpt, 'm waiting here on explosive changes to studio first and it's more then 2 years, 7 actually...
Geografts can be transferred, just by using Blender. It's definitely not a one-click process, but it's not overly hard either. I've even transferred a geograft from a quadruped to a biped with acceptable (for me) results. So long as the outer ring of vertices is identical, it will graft. You might need to adjust the rigging as well, but that's not overly complicated either.
The HD morph thing is another problem, though. I've yet to try comparing them to normal maps to see if it's a worthwhile comparison. Sometimes the SD version is close enough, other times it's not worth bothering with.
Anyway, now that I've had some time with G8M, I've gotten over my vitriol towards it. I remember I had a similar reaction to G3M, and I'm sure I'll be upset with G9M, or whatever they decide to call it. I still think they could've done better, but seeing as how the base is free and I've figured out how to transfer everything I need, it feels like a genuine upgrade at this point.
I've been pretty pleased with using Substance Painter to capture HD; the difference between HD and captured Normal is REALLY hard to perceive, even doing side by side comparisons.
I'll have to look into it more, then. Of course, I don't have Substance Painter, but there might be other programs which can do it.
I dunno. Because it's not surprising? Honestly, no clue.
The issue tends to remain, though, the fact that Daz isn't much in the business of make a bunch of stuff. They make a core thing, a few flagship bases, and let the Vendor artists handle the rest.
I mean, as good as Studio is at what it does, (and it's not shabby) their solution to non-baised rendering was to implement iRay, which someone else made. I just don't see them building their own real time functionality. I know iRay has a realtime mode, but I've no idea how well it works. Maybe they're adding that for the future, maybe they aren't. I'm pretty sure things have exceeded the point it makes sense to try to formulate a render engine of any type.
I think they would be foolish if they weren't doing it, because real time is the next thing.
But beyond something obvious like that, I just don't expect to see explosive changes out of Studio, or Poser for that matter. I could be wrong, but it seems like the market doesn't see the lack. I'm not saying there is no lack. I use other tools, because Studio can't do what I need.
Thinking about the average Studio user, I just don't see a lot of agitation for advanced features. I mean, the usual suspects in threads like this, but not a kind general call. A lack of realtime will be noticed, I mean Blend will have realtime shortly. They can't be the only package seeking it. So, I can see them adding that before the wave of "where's my realtime" peaks. But ...
Anyway, I don't have all, the answers, or probably any of them. It just seems likely that a different realeas methodolgy would not change things.
The product cycle for all of those items was the same as the G3 cycle. 2 years. 2 Years of Genesis, 2 years of Genesis 2, and 2 years of Genesis 3.
I'm pretty sure it's not product cycle, but lack of sales.
Zevo's staples are a good example. The crop up like bad pennies. Because they are selling. Whoever made four arms didn't make four arms 2 because they stopped selling or because the product didn't return on the investment. Which is back to what I said before, about fringe stuff. You need people who can afford to have low returns to make it work.
I don't think a longer cycle changes those economics, because it doesn't change the time investment. It just means the market is either saturated with products, or people have gotten their fill, and are turning to the esoteric. And, neither scenario suggests sales will actually return the effort.
The fundamentals of the market either are inherently, or have become a kind of trap. And I'm not, myself, well versed in economics such that I can point the way out. I just can't see how more time changes the incentives enough to actually create the condition you want, where fringe stuff provide the return. If I could, I'd exploit it myself, since most of what I would like to do doesn't exist. I just don't have the time to make it, because it probably won't pay back.