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I hope they make improvements in deformers in the near future as well. I would love the "morph brush" feature.
g8 male growing on me.
All we can do is pray to the Daz Gods to Bless us lol :P
I have a reason to upgrade to Genesis 8: It is part of our GoFundMe support campaign for Daz and its shareholders. They tend the playground, and we have somewhere to play. However, we expect for them to do so in good faith. If we ignore their latest attempts, even if they seem lackluster to us, we run the risk of forfeiting the company that provides us a creative outlet. As trends go, this field is nearing or has entered maturity. And there is no doubt that our artners, to coin a term, are actively seeking other means of revenue. Well before this line reaches diminishing returns, it shall fade, possibly in a manner similar to Cararra, Bryce and Hexagon. There is concern that the disappointing female offerings may be a signal that we have lost our flower with our artners, and that their attentions are directed elsewhere. But this is unfounded by actual data, and the show must go onwards and upwards, old chap.
...while I find them very useful, I agree more fine control would be nice.
For that, it is needed for the free DAZ Studio SW to change and those changes will be applicable to use for older DAZ models so it is not a Genesis thing really when it applis to hair & clothing but not the human model.
..good comment.
However I am on a very tight fixed income and just canot afford the investment it would take to bring G8 up to the level of usefulness where Geneisi Classic, G2 and G3 are at for me. For one we probably will not see another GenX update. I find GenX indespensible for expanding the morphs shapes I can use for characters. For edample, I find it great to be able to use DarioFish's alien character morphs or G2 expression poses on G3.
For me, G8 is a VERY low poly figure. We don't have access to the tools needed to make HD morphs. And the term HD is used very loosely here. Those are still low poly. Even by game standards. So yeah, the low poly figure of G8 and not being able to make higher resolution morphs are the main reasons I don't think it's worth upgrading. I'm buying a lot less stuff lately because of this. The third main thing that makes me hold back from G8 is the same problem G3 had and that's moving away from a mesh that follows the musculature and bends of a human being. Meshes bend along edges of polygons, but it seems this rule has been disregarded in the design of G3 and G8.
first see what goodies are coming, until then vote with the wallet like i do...
i'm now more surprised to see good software evolution over any new G8 content.
For my pair of eyes, G8 is tweaked to look like DS on renders, while G3 is still the best looking on Iray. I disagree with those who say "it has had years of tweaking" - I perfectly remember when it came out, and immediatelly looked better in iray based products. Nowadays, I find those promo pics for G8 to be a huge DS nostalgia. People probably grown to dislike Iray, and photorealistic looks.....
The shaders for G3 work exactly the same on G8.
Are they? The Morph3D game ready assets have 4 levels of detail compared to the single level of detail of the base G3 figure, so that contributes to the illusion of having a higher poly count.
One thing that disappoints me is the lack of wrinkles in the forehead, especially for older characters, when the eyebrows are raised, there should be visible wrinkles in the forehead. While HD expressions are a step in the right direction, I have not seen this feature in the G8 figures. Hopefully, there will be an add-on to correct this in the future.
Unfortunately, this seems to be a trend with recent DAZ figures. The easiest workaround is to sculpt in the HD details and export it as a bump/normal map.
The whole general debate is surprising to me since G8 is free and all of the Genesis assets work to a larger or smaller degree. Seems a reasonable person could decide for themselves whether investment in the character was warranted rather than asking a bunch of unknown people who each have their own motivations and preferences,
This is so very true. Different people do different things with the figures and have differing needs. If the product suits you buy it. If it does not, don't. Its really that simple.
For me, the improvements in expressions and bends and the backwards compatibility that lets me use all my G3 chararacters almost seamlessly as well as all the clothing,hair and various props I have collected over the last few years makes it totally worth it. Add to that the change that lets us change eyebrows to better match hair and skin tone and it was a no brainer for me. I have been playing with transferring morphs from G3 to G8 ( including some custom creature ones that I made with purchased G3 morph packs for various sorts of fantasy creatures) and its all going wonderfully. As to the fewer polygons around the eye area that people are discussing, that has not affected me very much at all. I can still get realistic ( or fantastical ) eyes by using the same amount of care I did previoiusly. I just have to do it a little differently. Heck, even my tattoo LIE presets work painlessly.
Now, I am a hobbyist and not an animator so I dont know if those fewer polygons really affect that. If they do, then maybe Genesis 8 is not the product for you and Genesis 2 or 3 is what you should be using. Good companies provide several levels of products to support different types and levels of use.
As to the people that want to create HD morphs and are upset about the fewer level of polygons, I also must admit to not being AT ALL expert in this. I have been following that discussion of the forums in the effort to better educate myself on this so that when I start trying to create my own HD morphs I can be prepared. One thing in all this research that has jumped out at me is that the people that already make these items have stated unequivocably that to do a good job at it, one needs to learn to work well with lower poly figures to begin with. This makes perfect sense to me. Besides, for all of us with hobbyist setups, the more polys, the more calculations the GPU or CPU must perform. That matters.
I also agree that people are free to do what they want and buy what they want and this is irrespective of how Daz3D decides to develop their software. I am an animator and I feel they are going in the wrong direction, but I have hopes for the future update. Incidentally, regarding the low polygon issue, I honestly don't see a problem. If the figure looks great in a rendering, polygon count shouldn't matter at all. I couldn't care less if G8 is lower poly than V4. The figure looks good and that's all I care about. The important thing for animation is where the polygons are. Animation needs the proper topology for good looking movement.
G8 is only free if 1.) you don't want any face other than g8 or 2.) you're willing to do the technical fiddling involved in porting morphs from G3 to G8. But if you want some morphability and those HD expressions, you have to spend money. Today about $21 for the ladies, which is why I'm once again looking at this thread trying to decide if it's worth stepping on that slippery slope.
I much prefer G3 (and V4!) over G8 but since G8 is free, I just purchased the official morphs and Thorne/Handspan's and will get Zevo's Growing up and Wear Them All when that happens but I don't see buying a lot of G8 stuff for quite a while, if ever, except possibly new original z brush created dial expressions or morphs or if I see some highly discounted exceptional PA characters or Daz O bundles. Did not like V8 or M8 at all and will only get them if pro bundles become free with G9 or if like 80% off.
I really don't NEED G8. I have V2, V3, V4, and all derivatives and male counterparts and all Genesis generations, male and female, realistic, toon and in between. Not much left I really need and, at this point, with what I do, I rarely even need realism, most of my stuff is highly stylized so even V3 can look great if you don't mind doing arty postwork!
Growing Up for GF8 is in the store now as of this morning.
That said, I semi-agree with the previous poster who said that since the base G8 figures are free, there's no reason not to get them. But that's taking the topic heading extremely literally, and I think the real question that's being asked is: how much priority should be placed on re-investing in G8 products if you already have similar functionality in G3? (or previous generations if that's your favorite flavor.) It's something that you really have to determine for yourself, but my personal take is that while G8 may be a slight improvement in some areas, I've yet to see anything that comes across as the 'killer' feature that makes it a 'must buy everything now' upgrade. It's very possible that there's another shoe waiting to drop that will only be compatible with the G8s... but if there is, the same figures and accessories will STILL be in the store when that hits, and they WILL be cheaper, on average, than they are now. Having bought V8 and the G8F morph packs, as well as half of ZevO's add-ons, I feel that I'm relatively future-proofed on the female side of the equation, and having bought V8, I was unimpressed enough to push back on buying M8, even though I was offered a significant discount. Instead, as others have noted, I feel that I'm getting a lot more value for my money by picking up G3M&F products as they hit the crazy sale prices.
I went ahead and got the morphs and Growing Up. I'm thinking about limiting myself to just the morph sets and not individual 'characters' that load independently.
I've taken G3 and even more G8 as a push to develop my own morphs and textures. Doing it myself
Well, leaving aside that only the base is free and it costs money to purchase V8/M8, I think the main reason this is a valid debate is the very real cost of moving from an older generation figure to the newest.
It's true that for a total newcomer to daz who is only just now picking up this hobby, there's not a whole lot of cost to just jumping in on whatever the latest generation figure might be, but I'm certain there's a large portion of the existing customer base who are currently operating with a preferred prior generation, and for daz to entice them to move to the newest generation there needs to be some realistic reason beyond 'its newer'. I would guess that a large part of the customer base dates back to M4/V4, and some go back as far as V3/M3 or even earlier generations. Customers with some longevity with daz are going to have already purchased a catalog of supporting content for the prior figures they are using, poses, clothing, characters, morphs, and other items that are specifc to those prior figures, not to mention the effort they might have already put into organizing all of that content. Recreating all of that with a new figure, and abandoning a lot of it that won't transfer to the new figure, naturally means that the newest figure had better bring some very compelling new features to the table.
Now there's nothing at all that says we can't maintain a stable of content for every generation of daz figures acquire, and use whatever generation of figure we like in whatever scenario they might fit best, but the question still remains, 'why should I want to use the newest generation, if it isn't noticeably better than what I'm already using now?' Morphs addons for the new figure are all well and good, but I'm not going to be attracted to buy them if I'm not using the new figure in the first place. Buying poses for the newest generation has the same limitation; if I'm not using the figure then nearly all of the figure-specific content doesn't attract me either.
The argument that content creators are going to shift to mostly only making clothing for the newest generation might hold some sway for some customers, it doesn't for me since I use Carrara, and can easily adapt new clothing to fit on my prior preferred generation, but even for those who might be alarmed by 'I guess I need the newest because of clothes' there's also the 'now I guess I have to buy the same clothes all over again' complaint but also there's the very real point that at this point there is now clothing for nearly every scenario/genre already available for prior generations - and at a less expensive price point.
And there's certain scenarios where you would almost certainly *not* want to use the newest generation. Suppose you were into animation, for example, and wanted a figure that was ready to go with lots of aniblock sets and bvh files. Gen8 is right out, immediately, even Gen3 is probably not the best pick. In that scenario, Gen1 or Gen2 would probably be the safest bets, especially as there are pose/animation converters that would allow the use of V4 animations too.
But anyway, my point is simply that I think it's a completely valid debate to have, and in fact I think the OP was wise to solicit opinions. So far, I haven't seen many good arguments for switching up to Gen8 (that's all in the eye of the beholder though maybe others are persuaded where I am not, so far). I'm still interested to hear more different viewpoints on this though.
A big test for me will be to see how much I like the new G8 Thorne/Hansdspan morphs, Growing up, or any other merchant morph. Right now, I really hate the looks of V8 and M8, and will not be purchasing them unless Pro bundles go to 80% or more off. So if I can't create something I find attractive or useful or special or different, no reason to invest any more in G8 if there aren't any major upgrades...
You can also remove or change any brows or other body hair bits by simply making an alternate version of the diffuse channel in photoshop.
...or in Gimp which is what I did before the Brow Remover and SBP2/3.
700$ at the time for PS was just a little out of my budget.
I don't know about anything else that makes people unhappy, but morph compatibility, and libraries of shapes for G3 is no longer a significant problem.
I do like the geografted eyelashes. I have not had any eyelash drifting away or gaps from the main mesh like I did with previous generations. May not be a ground breaking improvement but it is an improvement.