Morphs from G3 to G8

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  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470

    Well, might be. But for me a second (where I place stuff bought elsewere) and third (where I have my own saved stuff) library is essential. ...

    glaseye said:
    I am soooo not encoraging people who don't read instructions to add a second library. This whole thing is dangerous because it's complex. 

    ????

    I have many 'libraries' (separate content folders, for example for G8F content) in use. In fact, I don't even use the default content library DS sets up. Not sure what the danger or complexity is. (But then, I don't use DIM or any other Content Mangler System; strictly manual install. That has been the most safe and trusted install method for me for the past 10 years for DS, Vue and Poser.... wink )

    I read about putting content from other stores into a separate directory, and it sounded like a good idea. But it took me months to get up the courage to try. I think for those of us who use them all the time, additional content directories are simple. But we're not the group of people Singular Blues is worried about.

    As for the added level of complexity... I suspect he's thinking about the part where you save the morphs, and you have to remember to change the target directory. (Remembering to do that is one of my personal challenges...) It makes for the potential of having the same morph files saved to two (or more) locations. Having done that, (uh, more than once...?) I've had to clean up such a mess. Inconvenient and a teeny bit time consuming, but not a major issue... because I understand my directories. But the potential for a newbie to create a major snafu is real.

    So I might joke about it, but I think it's smart of Singular Blues to err on the side of caution.

  • glaseye said:
    I am soooo not encoraging people who don't read instructions to add a second library. This whole thing is dangerous because it's complex. 

    ????

    I have many 'libraries' (separate content folders, for example for G8F content) in use. In fact, I don't even use the default content library DS sets up. Not sure what the danger or complexity is. (But then, I don't use DIM or any other Content Mangler System; strictly manual install. That has been the most safe and trusted install method for me for the past 10 years for DS, Vue and Poser.... wink )

    This is an example of the strangest, yet most common logical fallacy in the world.

    "I can do something, so everyone else must be able to do that thing." 

    Everyone's guilty of this kind of thinking, but that doesn't make it less weird. Because everyone knows they can do a thing that others can't, or knows of someone who can do a thing they can't.

    Having more than one Content Directory is dangerous. Having Daz content is dangerous. Being alive is dangerous. There's alwasy an element of risk. That said, you clipped up my comment to say something I didn't. "This whole thing" refers to my method for transfering morphs between figures.

    Let me repeat something I said to someone else. The "safest" instructions I could come up with for the n00bs included things like "Now, delete the Genesis 3\Female\Moprhs folder. This is not a joke. Isolating the target morphs is freaking hard, and they have be beaten abpout pretty hard to get them to interface with G8. By the time the job is done, it's simpler to restore the whole morphs folder from backup. Which is just fine until you notice exactly what questions people are asking in this thread.

    At that moment, you realize they don't know what they are doing or why they are doing it.

    You complain that PA's, nominally pros, can't get a simple thing like folder structure right. That, right there, is you laming your own argument. The "pros" don't get it correct. It makes no sense to advise people who don't know what they are doing to take up new line of managing two different directories of "not correct." You are adding steps to your management of your content by running more dirs. They probably aren't managing their content at all, and don't know how.

    I'm not up for teaching them how. If you wish to, be my guest, but it's a bit absurd to expect me to do it, adding not just another series of steps to 100+ step process (depending on how you define step) but a bunch of theory as well. One should not be attempting anything in this thread if one does not understand, at least minimally, what is going on in the data folder. Not just where things are, but why the are there. Real damage can be done.

    Is it likely? No. For every issue raised in this thread there's probably one or two issues not being raised or raised in other fora. So call that a failure rate of 2 to 5%. One in 50 to 1 in 20. I expect, given the number of steps and the risk built into all of them, a failure rate of 1 in 5 or 1 in 2.

    That mirrors my own rate of failure, and I know what I'm doing. My figures are fully functional, because I knew how spot the problem and fix it. I know the theory behind what I'm doing. It's my theory. I know what I don't know about it. What I'm guessing. I still discover little things guessed wrong about, like a line of text that seems like it would give the wrong data, but actually isn't important. I suspect that it would become important to other processes, but for the purposes of transfer, it doesn't matter. Daz will fix it automatically in the course of saving the final morph. 

    When I started writing it up, I made the same mistake you did. I assumed, implicitly, that if it was easy for me, it would be easy for everyone else. I'm admitting that I was wrong, and also trying to impress upon those who think I'm being stingy or something how insane this turned out to be. It really is.

    Like I said, tell me you are willing to be responsible for fixing any errors you make with the method, and I'll share it with you. I've already had one taker, and I delivered yesterday. They can out themselves if they wish. There is no answer to this that doesn't make the whole thing more complex. To be clear, about this: Adding a second directory would be standing in for the delete and/or overwrite parts of the G3F morphs folder step. Doing that would, instead, mean having parts of the same product in two different content directories. Which seems fine untily you realize they are the same parts. Not part A in old and B in new, but A and B and in new and A, B, and C in new. This is how things get broken. ERC link from C might fail. The fact that New A and B will be made different from old A and B in exactly ways that Daz might decide makes them different entities might lead to duplicate formula errors. The fact that A and B might be ID'd as exatly the same by studio means that studio will load A then find another A and replace the fist loaded A with the second. And I can't predict which will be loaded. If Old A is loaded when the dust settles, the whole point of creating new A is mooted.

    This is more complexity for me to solve and more points of failure in the process that already has nearly 100 of them.

    Keep It Simple Stupid. The principle that militaries and large corporations run on. Complexity is for alpha testing and proof of concept, but field ready stuff is simple. This not simple, and a new directory amkes even less simple. While also giving n00bs a whole ne hobby (Content management) they didn't ask for.

    The push back I'm getting here seems a lot like "You assume I don't know how do that! How dare you?!?!?!"  No. I assume there exist people who don't know. I know I don't know who those people are. So I've decided to restrict access to people who are willing to raise their hands and say "I know what I'm about," know that if they're screw up, they have to rely on their own know how to fix it. Knowing my own failure rate (ignoring tests where I was poking to see if it would fail) was 40%. All they gotta do is ask, and admit they are responsible for the risks, and I'll tell them how to do it.

    Meanwhile, I'll keep banging on the script IDE until I automate the worst parts.

  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,796
    edited July 2017

    Having fun with wear them all and this morph converter. all I need is the pose converter and I may never need to buy anything for G8. The first 3 are V4 figures converted to g3 by GenX then to G8. Had to put different skins ont though so the faces don't look quite the same but the bodies cam out great. The first is P3D Penny with MDD Lacie skin.  the second is VYK Xhosa with Nyarai, the next is MRL Hedera Bane but I don't remember what skin I used And the last one is VYK Marnie with her own skin. Her sclera is really red, she's been crying

     

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    Post edited by ALLIEKATBLUE on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,018

    Having fun with wear them all and this morph converter. all I need is the pose converter and I may never need to buy anything for G8. The first 3 are V4 figures converted to g3 by GenX than to G8. HAd to put different skins ont though so the faces dont look quite the same but theb odies cam out great. The first is P3D Penny with MDD Lacie skin.  the second is VYK Xhosa with Nyarai, the next is MRL Hedera Bane but I don't remember what skin I useda nd the last one is VYK Marnie with her own skin.

     

     

    Those look great! Lovely renders! :D

    BTW, there's a free G3F to G8F pose converter that I find really helpful: http://www.sharecg.com/v/88560/browse/21/DAZ-Studio/G3F-G8F-pose-adjust-scripts-Legs-Arms-and-Full

    The thumbs usually need some adjustments but it does a pretty good job of converting the G3F poses, imo. :)

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,114

    Fabulous looking examples, and benefitting from G8F's superior bending, especially comapred with V4!

  • Rod Wise DriggoRod Wise Driggo Posts: 1,505

    Hi Guys, one more question regarding usage of the Geometry Editor (to deselect unwanted vertices and make sure that a partial body morph does not affect other parts of the body - which it did once I transfered the morph the first time). Once using the lasso tool is there a way to do multiple selections? Was pressing shift, CMD etc. but no "+" to add or does one have to try to get all unwanted areas in one step.

    Thanks in advance!

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470

    Hi Guys, one more question regarding usage of the Geometry Editor (to deselect unwanted vertices and make sure that a partial body morph does not affect other parts of the body - which it did once I transfered the morph the first time). Once using the lasso tool is there a way to do multiple selections? Was pressing shift, CMD etc. but no "+" to add or does one have to try to get all unwanted areas in one step.

    Thanks in advance!

    First, I create and save a new scene with just the G8 development figure.

    Then using the Geometry Editor, I select the head and neck polys and then invert. I then create a selection set named FullBody and save the scene. Whenever I import a head morph, I use this file and select the unwanted part of the body using the Selection set.

    Using Geometry Editor:

    1. I turn the figure to one side and zoom in on the head enough the full head and neck are showing.
    2. I use the marquee Selection Mode and select all of the head and part of the neck.
    3. I right-click in the scene and drill-down the menu: Geometry Selection->Select By->Face Groups and click on "Neck".
    4. I rotate the figure and verify all of the neck is selected.
    5. If I find some of the neck isn't selected, I repeat #3 and select "NeckUpper"
    6. Once I'm satisfied only the head and neck are selected, I right-click in the scene again and select Geometry Selection->Invert Selection
    7. With the body now selected, I right-click in the scene again and this time select Geometry Assignment->Create Selection Set From Selected.
    8. I name my new set FullBody in the popup and cllick on Accept.
    9. I save the scene again.

    I've found I can import the morphs while in Geometry Editor mode, so I don't have to switch back and forth. To select your FullBody selection set, just right-click in the scene and select Geometry Selection->Select By->Selection Set->FullBody, (or whatever you named your set...)

    Hope this helps.

     

  • MBuschMBusch Posts: 545
    edited July 2017

    Thank you so much! Create Selection Set From Selected was the missing step in my workflow. I was making that selection on every transfer. Now, it will be easier. ;-)

    Post edited by MBusch on
  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,796

    Having fun with wear them all and this morph converter. all I need is the pose converter and I may never need to buy anything for G8. The first 3 are V4 figures converted to g3 by GenX than to G8. HAd to put different skins ont though so the faces dont look quite the same but theb odies cam out great. The first is P3D Penny with MDD Lacie skin.  the second is VYK Xhosa with Nyarai, the next is MRL Hedera Bane but I don't remember what skin I useda nd the last one is VYK Marnie with her own skin.

     

     

    Those look great! Lovely renders! :D

    BTW, there's a free G3F to G8F pose converter that I find really helpful: http://www.sharecg.com/v/88560/browse/21/DAZ-Studio/G3F-G8F-pose-adjust-scripts-Legs-Arms-and-Full

    The thumbs usually need some adjustments but it does a pretty good job of converting the G3F poses, imo. :)

    Yes I got that tool when, I think you or Llynara posted the link. I just want to convert more than one at a time without having to stop and save and name each one.  I have tons of poses and for all generations plus all the converters. So I ain't buying not one G8 pose set.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470
    MBusch said:

    Thank you so much! Create Selection Set From Selected was the missing step in my workflow. I was making that selection on every transfer. Now, it will be easier. ;-)

    You're welcome. smiley

  • Silver DolphinSilver Dolphin Posts: 1,470

    Someone please make an updated tutorial with all the steps. Great Idea Ladiar this will save time.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,513

    Just had a chance to give this a try as well and it worked perfectly.  Thank you!

  • sandmanmaxsandmanmax Posts: 928
    edited July 2017

    Finally got back to converting morphs.  Here's Maddelirium's G3F Annora on G8F.  I wish I had more time to play...

    G8F Annora for G3F.jpg
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    Post edited by sandmanmax on
  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,796

    Finally got back to converting morphs.  Here's Maddelirium's G3F Annora on G8F.  I wish I had more time to play...

    Lovely

  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,796
    edited July 2017

    @sandman_max, how did you do Annora so well? I get weid shoulder geometry when I did her.  I tried 3 times and she came out like this.

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    Post edited by ALLIEKATBLUE on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,018
    edited July 2017

    @sandman_max, how did you do Annora so well? I get weid shoulder geometry when I did her.  I tried 3 times and she came out like this.

    Did you try Edit >> Rigging >> Adjust Rigging to Shape (and making sure all three boxes at the bottom are checked - including Adjust Orientation)? 

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • @sandman_max, how did you do Annora so well? I get weid shoulder geometry when I did her.  I tried 3 times and she came out like this.

    Did you try Edit >> Rigging >> Adjust Rigging to Shape (and making sure all three boxes at the bottom are checked - including Adjust Orientation)? 

    No, no. Not adjust orientation. Really,  that causes weird thins to happen, which is why it's off by default. Use Adjust orientation only when things didn't work right the first time, and limit it to individual bones.

    Still, I don't think that issue was caused by riggining. Not sure, mind but unless a shap is really really different rig distortion doesn't set in until you move something, and that's an A pose right there.

    As a diagnostic question, ALLIEKATBLUE, which method are you sing to do the transfer?

  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,796

    These odd shoulder distortion happens as soon as I dial in the shape to G8, I go ahead and adjust rigging to shape anyway but I know it's not going to fix it because it happened before. The ones that give me problems are extreeme shapes and heights. Off the top of my head, Nyrai, Pryia from DAZ and MDD Annora and Ilumi.I'm using the Redz tutorial possibly not the last interation, a few posts up. I see there are 2 links in your signature, perhaps tonight I will try the newest method although I have converted dozzens of characters with no problems at all. 

  • Singular BluesSingular Blues Posts: 729
    edited July 2017

    Okay, some advice I got from Daz tuts.

    When you dial in a body morph on the source fig, reset the scale to 100%.

    Daz said, in their tut for making genesis morphs, it's hard on the figure if the size gets too far from the base size. Some cases this can't be avoided, but most people shapes it can be. 

    If the size change was baked in by the original creator, it may not matter, but you can still try rescaling the figure to base size.

    Instead, make a note of the scale setting used by the original if any, and then, after you adjust rigging, but before you ERC freeze, change the G8 scale to match. By doing it in this order, when you ERC freeze, the scale setting will be added to the morph as an ERC link. If you tried scaling the source figure up to base size, then when setting the scale for the G8 morph, load in the base figure and dial up the shape but this time don't mess with the scale. Instead, dial in the new morph on G8, adjust rigging, then manaull adjust G8's scale to match the source figure. Even with the different base poses, the heads should line up between G3 and G8. With other figures, this might take some tweaking. again, only after scaling, would you ERC freeze.

    Additional advice: use the Redz clones tut in my sig to get a better base fit. The shoulder areas of the two figures are different enough that problems crop in. I wouldn't expect that problem, off the bat, but knowing about those differences, it seem likely that why your results differ from sandman_max's. The only way to totally eliminate the issue is to manually edit the clones for an exact match, but barring that, I think Redz original method (and all of the other methods that rely on reposing to match between figures) are adding in addition distortions by baking the shoulder JCM's into the morphs. The clones method should avoid that.

    Post edited by Singular Blues on
  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,796

    Thanks SB, I will try this tonight. I would love this to work and I am encouraged because sandman max got such good results

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,264

    @sandman_max, how did you do Annora so well? I get weid shoulder geometry when I did her.  I tried 3 times and she came out like this.

    Did you try Edit >> Rigging >> Adjust Rigging to Shape (and making sure all three boxes at the bottom are checked - including Adjust Orientation)? 

    No, no. Not adjust orientation. Really,  that causes weird thins to happen, which is why it's off by default. Use Adjust orientation only when things didn't work right the first time, and limit it to individual bones.

    Still, I don't think that issue was caused by riggining. Not sure, mind but unless a shap is really really different rig distortion doesn't set in until you move something, and that's an A pose right there.

    As a diagnostic question, ALLIEKATBLUE, which method are you sing to do the transfer?

    Indeed, it appears to work, but with the morph dialled in at full, the eyes are reversed; if the morph is partially dialed in then the eyes are the obvious thing wrong, they point in different directions. Looks weird, :)

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,563
    nicstt said:

    @sandman_max, how did you do Annora so well? I get weid shoulder geometry when I did her.  I tried 3 times and she came out like this.

    Did you try Edit >> Rigging >> Adjust Rigging to Shape (and making sure all three boxes at the bottom are checked - including Adjust Orientation)? 

    No, no. Not adjust orientation. Really,  that causes weird thins to happen, which is why it's off by default. Use Adjust orientation only when things didn't work right the first time, and limit it to individual bones.

    Still, I don't think that issue was caused by riggining. Not sure, mind but unless a shap is really really different rig distortion doesn't set in until you move something, and that's an A pose right there.

    As a diagnostic question, ALLIEKATBLUE, which method are you sing to do the transfer?

    Indeed, it appears to work, but with the morph dialled in at full, the eyes are reversed; if the morph is partially dialed in then the eyes are the obvious thing wrong, they point in different directions. Looks weird, :)

    Adjust head rigging in parts: eyes, ears, eyelids, the rest can be done together.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,513
    edited July 2017

    As someone who has, indeed, broken things, I just want to re iterate what was said about going slow, and if you run into something odd, stop and ask.  If anything, I would suggest this even more strongly than the original post.  Broken things are very very hard to fix, expecially if a. you have no idea what you did to break it, and B. sometimes, you can't fix it even if you do know what you did and that involves a large amount of time and pain to uninstall and re install etc etc.  DONT DO IT!  lol.  Seriously though, I am a firm believer in learning by doing but some things you just need to follow the directions exactly instead of just winging it.

    Having said that, I am happily converting my G3F's and am absolutely thrilled with the results.

    Post edited by IceDragonArt on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 17,468
    Redz said:
    MBusch said:

    At page 2 where is write: 19. Delete Genesis 2 Female and MyG8Clone_G2F from the scene. It should be: 19. Delete Genesis 8 Female and MyG8Clone_G2F from the scene. Right?

    Oops yes. I will correct that tomorrow. Tank you.

    Did this ever get corrected? The version I just downloaded from the link in Singular Blues signature still contains the error.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,264
    nicstt said:

    @sandman_max, how did you do Annora so well? I get weid shoulder geometry when I did her.  I tried 3 times and she came out like this.

    Did you try Edit >> Rigging >> Adjust Rigging to Shape (and making sure all three boxes at the bottom are checked - including Adjust Orientation)? 

    No, no. Not adjust orientation. Really,  that causes weird thins to happen, which is why it's off by default. Use Adjust orientation only when things didn't work right the first time, and limit it to individual bones.

    Still, I don't think that issue was caused by riggining. Not sure, mind but unless a shap is really really different rig distortion doesn't set in until you move something, and that's an A pose right there.

    As a diagnostic question, ALLIEKATBLUE, which method are you sing to do the transfer?

    Indeed, it appears to work, but with the morph dialled in at full, the eyes are reversed; if the morph is partially dialed in then the eyes are the obvious thing wrong, they point in different directions. Looks weird, :)

    Adjust head rigging in parts: eyes, ears, eyelids, the rest can be done together.

    Oh, how? :)

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,563
    nicstt said:
    nicstt said:

    @sandman_max, how did you do Annora so well? I get weid shoulder geometry when I did her.  I tried 3 times and she came out like this.

    Did you try Edit >> Rigging >> Adjust Rigging to Shape (and making sure all three boxes at the bottom are checked - including Adjust Orientation)? 

    No, no. Not adjust orientation. Really,  that causes weird thins to happen, which is why it's off by default. Use Adjust orientation only when things didn't work right the first time, and limit it to individual bones.

    Still, I don't think that issue was caused by riggining. Not sure, mind but unless a shap is really really different rig distortion doesn't set in until you move something, and that's an A pose right there.

    As a diagnostic question, ALLIEKATBLUE, which method are you sing to do the transfer?

    Indeed, it appears to work, but with the morph dialled in at full, the eyes are reversed; if the morph is partially dialed in then the eyes are the obvious thing wrong, they point in different directions. Looks weird, :)

    Adjust head rigging in parts: eyes, ears, eyelids, the rest can be done together.

    Oh, how? :)

    It would be the same steps, except you would pick the body parts on the left panel (eyes, ears) with the part of body on the right side (head, eyes) rather than everything as a default.

  • Adjust head rigging in parts: eyes, ears, eyelids, the rest can be done together.

    I've still seen anomalous results with adjust orientation. The fact is, Studio tends to try to be helpful 9 times of 10, and usually populates the options as they should be (Morph Loader excepted, since most of the time you do want to reverse deformations, but there's always an odd duck). There's likely a reason that option is not checked.

    As I said, I've seen it cause more issues than it does anything else. This goes beyond eyes (and eyelids, by the way). These are items with 180 degree rotation on them for some reason so adjust rigging removes it if you adjust orientation. But that's not the only thing that can go wrong. It's just on of the least obvious ones.

    The best way to handle rigging is to run the tool at default setting in joint editor mode. Then, look at the rigging. Look for bones that seem out of place. If all seems good, leave it be. AO isn't going to do much. The main reason for it is that some shapes can put the bone badly out of line with it's body part, which will mean the part doesn't travel in the right direction. For most shapes (especially if you make sure to do them at base figre scale and use the scape controller to deal with size) it doesn't do anything, except introduce the funky in the special bones) or it does something down right weird.

    Adjust Orientation is there for those cases when the other options just don't get the job done right. if your perfectionsim bone demands you use it, never use it on the head, at all. Really. It simply doesn't matter there except for reallly really extreme shapes (Aliens, not toons. Though Morpheus may be pushing things). The best evidence I can offer for this is load G3 and G8. Turn on the joint editor. Select G3. Zoom in on the head. Now get you mouse hovered over G8 in the scene tab. Lock you eyes on the viewport. Click to select G8.

    Notice how the majority of G8's face bones point straight out, while a whole lot of G3's (especially around the lips) don't? They basically have the same face and the same weight mapping. The orientation simply doesn't matter. 

    Because the orientations either don't matter, or matter a lot and the tool breaks them, it's best not to use that part of tool until the default setting gives bad results. Most times, you get by with either or on the body, though you can ger unexpected weirdness expecially if the new shape is significanly off base size, but most times it won't hurt. With the head it gets really dangerous. Eyes, ears, lids are know issues. Squints also get a bit dodgy. There are nearly as many bones in the head as whole rest of the figure. It's not clear what's going on up in there, and IMO, AO doesn't provide enough of a consistent results boost to be worth adding it as standard separate step. It's mostly a waste of time, except where it breaks things, so why use it until you see something the tool didn't get quite right?
     

  • sandmanmaxsandmanmax Posts: 928

    And here's a custom guy from Skin Builder 3 via Genesis 3 and then transferred to G8F.  He uses the G3F Cross-Figure, I think there was some HFS muscle man - maybe from the creature pack - and a bunch of other stuff I had in G3F in there. G8F got the complete morph, so it just goes from female to male with one dial.  I'm calling him Dave and I think I'm in love...heart

     

     

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  • sandmanmaxsandmanmax Posts: 928
    edited July 2017

     

    Post edited by sandmanmax on
  • sandmanmaxsandmanmax Posts: 928

    Sorry - I didn't mean to double-post.

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