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Ouch. These prices.

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  • MendomanMendoman Posts: 404
    Midnight_stories said:

    OK I'll put this question to people if price wasn't a consideration what would be some of the things you look for. Example how unique it was, the quality, current trending movie character, holiday themes ect .....

    Quality is #1 criteria for me too. I gladly pay some extra $ for example from Stonemason set, when I know that I always get top quality. When it comes to trends or seasonal stuff, I don't really care of those. I usually just buy what I think I need now or in the near future. I would have bought that winter castle even if it was released in July. 

    Personally I'd love to have more nature scenes/props, since I think I'll never have enough different trees, bushes, plants, flowers etc. If Stonemason released Enchanted forest 3 and 4, I would pick those immediately. Also sure winners for me would be Iray updates for lots of older great content like Faveral's ships/villages, Rawart's monsters, Stonemason's older sets, Merlin Studio's older content... and the list goes on. Also there's tons and tons of superb clothes, hairs and stuff, that deserve a new life with G3 and Iray. I believe lots of people already own those great original products, so selling Iray/Genesis 3 updates for those should be pretty easy job, and probably would sell some extra copies of those old products too. It's probably not the most interesting artistic job to convert 3Delight materials to Iray, or redoing weight mappings, but I'm quite sure I'm not the only customer waiting for those updates.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704
    edited December 2016

    Reusability is important to me now. I just can't afford 3D items that are one-offs. So... gimmicky items or characters and props that have limited use I may not buy regardless of the cool factor because I can only see using them in a single scene or two. I don't feel I'm getting enough use out of those type of unique items.

    I also need details. So seams and pockets on clothing, finished waistbands and pants that don't look like tights. Belts that don't deform. Collars for men that don't look like the character belongs on a Quaker Oat's box. Hair that fits properly and doesn't look thin because of fiber mesh. Proper hairlines and sideburns on men. Morphs to adjust clothing. Well made straps and extras.

    I own far too much content that simply doesn't fit or look nicely because of distortion issues that I'm afraid to buy outfits at stores without a return policy. I have stopped buying from certain vendors because belts, boots, grenades and shirts distort even in the most mundane poses. 

     

    Post edited by Serene Night on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,980

    I agree with Serene Night and others on the "reusablity" issue. That is one of the most important factors, for me, in deciding if I'm going to purchase an item. If it's a niche item or something that I can't see using and reusing frequently I'm MUCH less likely to purchase it. Having said that though - if something is really cool and unique and so different that it grabs my attention then I'm very likely to get it due to it's uniqness. A prime example of this is Star 2.0.

    She's so different and unique and adds such a different shape and look to the Genesis 3 gene pool that I just had to get her. If a PA can dream up and create something unique and cool that can give me something that other figures can't - that's going to really influence my decision to buy it.  

  • AlienRendersAlienRenders Posts: 794

    I'm probably in the minority, but lately I look if the vendor has a game license. If not, then I'm less likely to purchase whatever they sell. It's not that I'll use it in a game. But I like having the option. I think that same idea rings true for most things I buy. Does it have potential future use?

     

  • Pixel8tedPixel8ted Posts: 602
    edited December 2016

    If it's an outfit, I want shoes! I have lots of shoes in my library but not having shoes included with an outfit unless it's something that an individual would wear barefooted is a buyer turn off for me. I look at an item's versitility.  I want to be able to use the individual pieces separately. Another selling point is if item has lots of material zones. I also look at if several texture sets are included with the item or at least available. Sometimes, a texture can really change my mind about an item...

    Post edited by Pixel8ted on
  • namnlosen_3af07481ddnamnlosen_3af07481dd Posts: 13
    AlienRenders said:

    I'm probably in the minority, but lately I look if the vendor has a game license. If not, then I'm less likely to purchase whatever they sell. It's not that I'll use it in a game. But I like having the option. I think that same idea rings true for most things I buy. Does it have potential future use?

    This is a major factor for us too; we use a lot of DAZ3D and Poser models as a starting point for our concept art, which usually ends up diverging a long way from the base models; but sometimes we will come across a model that's so visually striking and in tune with our requirements that it would be simpler to just use it as-is, at which point the vendor having a game license option available or not will play a deciding role in our choice to purchase their model/s or not.

  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679
    Richard Haseltine said:
    outrider42 said:
    I think Daz has a lot of potential to really expand this 3D prop market it has. The next phase is it needs to simplify the licenses a lot. I believe licenses should be included with the product. Right now the license thing is not so clear. Some PAs have their own, but some do not. I know some PAs might shoot me by suggesting that, however, I think a compromise could be made. Eliminate individual PA licenses, but in exchange raise the PA stake from 50% to 60~70%. I really believe this is a big hurdle, if Daz is serious about their stuff for use in 3d game engines, they need to simplify the licensing big time. Morph3D does this, but Morph3D is not good enough. Kill Morph3D and merge it into the Daz Store. If making this happen is a problem for current current, then make sure to do it for future content...Genesis 4. And raising the PA stake makes them happier and more likely to keep making content. Raising the stake also makes it easier to make those riskier product ideas that people are debating here.

    The license is the same, unless relaxed for a Merchant resource, for all content sold through the daz store (except for the Anne Marie Goddard Digital Clone). If you mean Game Developer Licenses, I think very few of us would be happy to find we were paying for those as well as a license to use 2D renders - and given the logistics game development has to be a minor part of the market.

    Yes, I was specifically talking about games. And I really have to disagree that is a very minor market. Considering Daz spun off to create an ENTIRE new new just for gaming content, content that is basically optimized Genesis 2, is all the proof needed to dispute that. There is a growing market out there ready to be taken. That Morph3D isn't setting the world on fire has more to do with how Daz failed to promote it properly than the concept itself. They advertised gaming on the front page for ages. They still advertise how game ready G3 is. I would even suggest that the biggest reason Genesis 3 has fewer polygons than ancient Victoria 4 is all because Daz wanted to make the figure "light" on gaming engines. There have been sales on gaming licenses for specific venders who have them.

    AlienRenders said:

    I'm probably in the minority, but lately I look if the vendor has a game license. If not, then I'm less likely to purchase whatever they sell. It's not that I'll use it in a game. But I like having the option. I think that same idea rings true for most things I buy. Does it have potential future use?

     

    namnlosen_3af07481dd said:
    AlienRenders said:

    I'm probably in the minority, but lately I look if the vendor has a game license. If not, then I'm less likely to purchase whatever they sell. It's not that I'll use it in a game. But I like having the option. I think that same idea rings true for most things I buy. Does it have potential future use?

    This is a major factor for us too; we use a lot of DAZ3D and Poser models as a starting point for our concept art, which usually ends up diverging a long way from the base models; but sometimes we will come across a model that's so visually striking and in tune with our requirements that it would be simpler to just use it as-is, at which point the vendor having a game license option available or not will play a deciding role in our choice to purchase their model/s or not.

    Now see, instead of having a separate store like Morph3D, or searching this store for the specific ones covered, wouldn't it be awesome if the new content had those licenses built in?

    Kill Morph3d, kill separate game licenses, give the venders at least 60-40 split instead of 50-50, and reap the rewards of a growing market that will send Daz forward for the next decade. This is where the market is going to be in the next few years, animation and gaming. If you ignore it, somebody else will come along and take it for themselves. Right now we are still in the wild west of sorts in this market. It is not defined. It is there for the taking. If Genesis 4 doesn't greatly enhance its gaming capabilities and licenses over G3, it will not be as successful as could be. It could even fall flat, because people aren't going to just stop using G3 or even G2 or V/M4. G4 has to be a huge leap.
  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,386
    edited December 2016

     kill separate game licenses,

     

    Some people may allready have spent

    ~ 350$ for a DAZ Original Indie Game license

    ~ 1'750$ for a DAZ Original Commercial Game licenes

     

    So what do you say to them:

    A) Ups, sorry that you trusted us?

    B) Thank you for giving us our money we now have deceided that we can reach more customers by including games, VR and holograms in the standard EULA?

    C) No need to get upset, if you can afford to spend 1'750$ you must be so rich that this was only "pocket money"?

    I do not mind. "Sunk costs"... Others may.

    ->  If DAZ3d thinks that would be better for their business I consider the money allready spent as donation so this company can make the needed changes...

    But please do make the changes to push those new technologies forwards...

     

    Kill Morph3d,

    It would be very interesting if they did the opposite and made even more separate companies that focus on specific customer segments.

    Create another store with high quality 3d content sold at higher prices. Add a separate forum, create a professional version of the 3d software that users pay for.

    This would solve many issues:

    - You get a new chance with an new brand name to attract professional users who are willing to spend money for quality.

    - You can keep DAZ3D as it is with its current user base.

    - You will not anymore have to deal with arguments between different user segements who are on completly different budgets and usage intentions

    - Behind the scenes some staff and adiministration could be shared for all different brands.

    - Users would save a lot of time and energy not having to look at store products of a quality they are not interested in buying.

    - - -

     

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • NathNath Posts: 2,948
    outrider42 said:
    Yes, I was specifically talking about games. And I really have to disagree that is a very minor market. Considering Daz spun off to create an ENTIRE new new just for gaming content, content that is basically optimized Genesis 2, is all the proof needed to dispute that. There is a growing market out there ready to be taken. That Morph3D isn't setting the world on fire has more to do with how Daz failed to promote it properly than the concept itself. They advertised gaming on the front page for ages. They still advertise how game ready G3 is. I would even suggest that the biggest reason Genesis 3 has fewer polygons than ancient Victoria 4 is all because Daz wanted to make the figure "light" on gaming engines. There have been sales on gaming licenses for specific venders who have them.
    outrider42 said:
    Kill Morph3d, kill separate game licenses, give the venders at least 60-40 split instead of 50-50, and reap the rewards of a growing market that will send Daz forward for the next decade. This is where the market is going to be in the next few years, animation and gaming. If you ignore it, somebody else will come along and take it for themselves. Right now we are still in the wild west of sorts in this market. It is not defined. It is there for the taking. If Genesis 4 doesn't greatly enhance its gaming capabilities and licenses over G3, it will not be as successful as could be. It could even fall flat, because people aren't going to just stop using G3 or even G2 or V/M4. G4 has to be a huge leap.

     

    And if those gaming oriented improvements come at the price of say, less flexibility in texture quality, facial expressions or body shape (not saying that they have to, just using them as an example), then G4 would lose the 2D image market. Important as the gaming market is/will become, it doesn't mean other uses will go away, and trying to facilitate every conceivable type of use in one model is a sure way to please nobody instead of everybody.

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    outrider42 said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    outrider42 said:
    I think Daz has a lot of potential to really expand this 3D prop market it has. The next phase is it needs to simplify the licenses a lot. I believe licenses should be included with the product. Right now the license thing is not so clear. Some PAs have their own, but some do not. I know some PAs might shoot me by suggesting that, however, I think a compromise could be made. Eliminate individual PA licenses, but in exchange raise the PA stake from 50% to 60~70%. I really believe this is a big hurdle, if Daz is serious about their stuff for use in 3d game engines, they need to simplify the licensing big time. Morph3D does this, but Morph3D is not good enough. Kill Morph3D and merge it into the Daz Store. If making this happen is a problem for current current, then make sure to do it for future content...Genesis 4. And raising the PA stake makes them happier and more likely to keep making content. Raising the stake also makes it easier to make those riskier product ideas that people are debating here.

    The license is the same, unless relaxed for a Merchant resource, for all content sold through the daz store (except for the Anne Marie Goddard Digital Clone). If you mean Game Developer Licenses, I think very few of us would be happy to find we were paying for those as well as a license to use 2D renders - and given the logistics game development has to be a minor part of the market.

     

    Yes, I was specifically talking about games. And I really have to disagree that is a very minor market. Considering Daz spun off to create an ENTIRE new new just for gaming content, content that is basically optimized Genesis 2, is all the proof needed to dispute that. There is a growing market out there ready to be taken. That Morph3D isn't setting the world on fire has more to do with how Daz failed to promote it properly than the concept itself. They advertised gaming on the front page for ages. They still advertise how game ready G3 is. I would even suggest that the biggest reason Genesis 3 has fewer polygons than ancient Victoria 4 is all because Daz wanted to make the figure "light" on gaming engines. There have been sales on gaming licenses for specific venders who have them.

     

    AlienRenders said:

    I'm probably in the minority, but lately I look if the vendor has a game license. If not, then I'm less likely to purchase whatever they sell. It's not that I'll use it in a game. But I like having the option. I think that same idea rings true for most things I buy. Does it have potential future use?

     

     

    namnlosen_3af07481dd said:
    AlienRenders said:

    I'm probably in the minority, but lately I look if the vendor has a game license. If not, then I'm less likely to purchase whatever they sell. It's not that I'll use it in a game. But I like having the option. I think that same idea rings true for most things I buy. Does it have potential future use?

    This is a major factor for us too; we use a lot of DAZ3D and Poser models as a starting point for our concept art, which usually ends up diverging a long way from the base models; but sometimes we will come across a model that's so visually striking and in tune with our requirements that it would be simpler to just use it as-is, at which point the vendor having a game license option available or not will play a deciding role in our choice to purchase their model/s or not.

     

    Now see, instead of having a separate store like Morph3D, or searching this store for the specific ones covered, wouldn't it be awesome if the new content had those licenses built in?

     

    Kill Morph3d, kill separate game licenses, give the venders at least 60-40 split instead of 50-50, and reap the rewards of a growing market that will send Daz forward for the next decade. This is where the market is going to be in the next few years, animation and gaming. If you ignore it, somebody else will come along and take it for themselves. Right now we are still in the wild west of sorts in this market. It is not defined. It is there for the taking. If Genesis 4 doesn't greatly enhance its gaming capabilities and licenses over G3, it will not be as successful as could be. It could even fall flat, because people aren't going to just stop using G3 or even G2 or V/M4. G4 has to be a huge leap.

    And if they do and G4 falls flat because no vendors want to make content for it due to the game licensing, what then?

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    Serene Night said:

    Reusability is important to me now. I just can't afford 3D items that are one-offs. So... gimmicky items or characters and props that have limited use I may not buy regardless of the cool factor because I can only see using them in a single scene or two. I don't feel I'm getting enough use out of those type of unique items.

    I also need details. So seams and pockets on clothing, finished waistbands and pants that don't look like tights. Belts that don't deform. Collars for men that don't look like the character belongs on a Quaker Oat's box. Hair that fits properly and doesn't look thin because of fiber mesh. Proper hairlines and sideburns on men. Morphs to adjust clothing. Well made straps and extras.

    I own far too much content that simply doesn't fit or look nicely because of distortion issues that I'm afraid to buy outfits at stores without a return policy. I have stopped buying from certain vendors because belts, boots, grenades and shirts distort even in the most mundane poses. 

     

    I totally agree with you.  Also I think why my spending has slowed down so much is I rather like genesis 2 and I buy for it when ever I can . and Unfortunately  the venders have stopped supporting genesis 2 so  in turn so has my spending habits.   I wish g2 support was included with some of the g3 content. But the venders just don't want to put in the time to support it ( because its not cost effective for them to support it I reckon ) . And that is a real shame too because g2 is still my favorite character set to use so I buy and support those products when available  genesis 3 not so much . or at all g3 is not cross compatible with the older generations so its not worth it to me to support it.

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,391
    edited December 2016

    Deleted by Slosh

    Post edited by Slosh on
  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,935
    edited December 2016

    Yes, I was specifically talking about games. And I really have to disagree 

    that is a very minor market. Considering Daz spun off to create an 

    ENTIRE new new just for gaming content, content that is basically 

    optimized Genesis 2, is all the proof needed to dispute that. There is a 

    growing market out there ready to be taken. That Morph3D isn't setting 

    the world on fire has more to do with how Daz failed to promote it properly 

    than the concept itself. They advertised gaming on the front page for ages. 

    They still advertise how game ready G3 is. I would even suggest that the 

    biggest reason Genesis 3 has fewer polygons than ancient Victoria 4 is all 

    because Daz wanted to make the figure "light" on gaming engines. There 

    have been sales on gaming licenses for specific venders who have them."

    Global gaming revenue for 2016 is expected to hit $99 billion.
     
    https://newzoo.com/insights/articles/global-games-market-reaches-99-6-billion-2016-mobile-generating-37/

    I certainly understand why the parent company of DAZ created morph3D.
    Now as far is it "not setting the world on fire" there are many factors in play not the least of which is the sheer amount of competition in the game content market.

    AS much I like Genesis2  it is obvious that one will need something more compelling than the pretty, vanilla white girls that are sold to the still render majority here,
    simply Optimized and "rebranded " for unity.

    Not that attractive female characters are not popular in games,
    Quite the opposite.

    But just take a look at the Character types & marketing campaign of the wildly successful "Overwatch" game from Blizzard and you will see what  gamers like.

    On the matter G3.... Yeah the face bone rig and the additional twist bones
     in each limb only succeeded in causing addtional  gruntwork for the Daz PA's, the  non gaming  still render crowd and animators like Ivy & Myself  over here.

    And to the often regurgitated claim that "G3 is better suited for export 
    to other programs"     well sorry but... bolluckscheeky

    Just watch any video tutorial and look at the labor involved in getting G3 into MAYA or Motionbuilder compared to G2 and you will see this  assertion is just not founded in reality.
     And now people are openly wishing for more actual mesh based facial morphs as the mighty face bone rig failed to live up to the hype for day to day still rendering.

    All that Said  Ivan is the realistic Male figure Daz has ever offered
    I only wish he was easier to animate.

    Post edited by wolf359 on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,297

    My comment on the size of the game segment was meaning numbers - given the complexity of making a game I would expect there to be far more people producing images, or even animations, than there are producing games and therefore more people to be put off by prices that covered game use than there would be people who welcomed such a change.

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,990
    wolf359 said:

    But just take a look at the Character types & marketing campaign of the wildly successful "Overwatch" game from Blizzard and you will see what  gamers like.

    Just to add to here, this is just one particular style but games are so diverse today you will see everything ranging from average joe characters in casual clothing to the most extreme futuristic sci-fi or fantasy stuff and likewise going from highly stylised to ultra realistic. There is no particular aesthetic that gamers want.

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,854

    I am going to mention that Morph3d is aiming in a rather divergent way from what the Daz site does. If you look at it now you will see that currently, it is almost totally character driven and that they are moving to focus on things like the character system and the ready room. In many ways, they are not even directly competitive with this store anymore. It also looks like they are going to focus on VR as well as gaming.  In other words, Morph has a different focus and different goals than this store and isn't something that can be blended back in with easy without confusing future customers here.

    As far as gaming licences go I am pretty sure that there are not more in the store because those PA's just simply don't see their products as something people who make games will want. I would suggest that if there is a PA who's products you do think should have a game licence you should contact them or Daz and suggest it. Looking at the game licences and the cost of them we can be pretty sure that were it added across the board the price of all products would go up to compensate for it. That wouldn't thrill most customers and I doubt it would thrill that many PA's. There are scores of products that would never be used in games. Lights, shaders, single frame poses and so on. There is simply no reason for everything to have a game licence. 

  • nelsonsmithnelsonsmith Posts: 1,337
    edited December 2016
    Serene Night said:
    I SOOO wanted to stay out of this discussion, but feel the need to add a few comments anyway.  Regarding PAs setting their own prices, and whether or not they are increasing greatly as a trend (yes, prices are increasing, but I don't know that I would say "greatly" as a rule.)   Some vendors have raised their prices at a greater percentage than others, and I don't know that I think that is a good thing.  But, every PA has their own reasoning and specific real life reasons for that decision.  One thing that many of you may not know is how much we PAs agonize over pricing our products.  I have participated in (and initiated) MANY discussions about what price to put on our latest and greatest product.  Do we factor in the stacking discounts that are present even during intro periods?  Do we price it for the long term, thinking about catalog sales a year or two down the road?  The answer is "Yes" to these and other questions when it comes to pricing the products.  I have been a PA here for 4 years now, and sold at Renderosity for 10 years prior to that.  My first product at DAZ sold 365 copies during the 2 week intro, in which I "took home" an average or $5 per unit.  That product cost about $18 at the time, IIRC (at full price).  Now, because the buyers have grown accustomed to the stacking discounts of buying 2 or more "New" items and getting 30, 40, or 50% as well as additional 10% because they bought SpiffyBot in October, I very often average around $3 per unit sold AND because other buyers know they can get a deeper discount if they wait awhile, then I sell less units during the intro period.  This is why you see some people raising their prices at a larger rate.  Then, when the big sales come and the "wishlisted" stuff is less expensive, I can often see my profit at $2 per unit or less.  All the while, the quality of my products has grown over four years and I've bought new software to make those products, and training videos to learn how to make the products better, not to mention the supporting products I buy from other PAs to complete my promos (I spend tons of money on content), etc.  But, blah blah blah, this is the career I chose and I am not complaining one bit about it.  I am in anguish when it comes time to price my products because, as a one time hobbyist (yes, those days are over.  who has time to render for "fun" anymore?), I cringe when I see $30 for a product, especially when I might only use it once or twice, or never at all.  
    Slosh said:

    Basically, because I think I've somehow rambled away from my original point, I'm trying to say that pricing is complex.  On one hand, we do want to make a living and feel that we got paid the value of the time and effort we put into making the product, but on the other hand, we want the customers to be able to afford to buy and use the product, because in the end there is no point in making content if nobody is there to use it.

    I miss the days when I could price my work for under $20 and know I could still pay my bills.  

    Thanks Slosh.  Appreciate all the people that come and speak straight, and yet manage to treat people like they're not idiots. I'll make an extra effort to support your products for that.

    Post edited by nelsonsmith on
  • namnlosen_3af07481ddnamnlosen_3af07481dd Posts: 13
    edited December 2016
    Richard Haseltine said:

    My comment on the size of the game segment was meaning numbers - given the complexity of making a game I would expect there to be far more people producing images, or even animations, than there are producing games and therefore more people to be put off by prices that covered game use than there would be people who welcomed such a change.

    Would it not be more practical, flexible (and profitable in the long term) to have separate game license options available with each product? Speaking from our own experience, if a vendor has two products available for 10 dollars each, it's hard to justify buying a 500 dollar game license to make them available for game use, whereas having the choice to click a 'game license version' button on both of the product's store pages and purchase them for 50 dollars each is an easy sell from a budgetary point of view. 

    And from the point of view of the vendors, the currently available game licenses are effectively lifetime subscriptions to a vendor's entire catalogue, and severely undervalue their assets if they are producing ones of a consistently useful type for gaming projects; letting them set individual gaming licenses for each product would surely increse sales and let them pick and choose which products they wanted to make available for games rather than the current blanket license for everything in their store.

    To simplify matters further, a subsection of the store could gather all the game license products together under a 'DAZ Gaming' banner, making it easy to find what products were avilable for game projects, and further increase the chances of sales for the vendors.

    Post edited by namnlosen_3af07481dd on
  • StonemasonStonemason Posts: 1,223

     the currently available game licenses are effectively lifetime subscriptions to a vendor's entire catalogue

     

    I think the games license is good for only one game..so it's not really a lifetime pass

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,844
    outrider42 said:
     Kill Morph3D and merge it into the Daz Store. If making this happen is a problem for current current, then make sure to do it for future content...Genesis 4. And raising the PA stake makes them happier and more likely to keep making content. Raising the stake also makes it easier to make those riskier product ideas that people are debating here.

    Heck no! I come to DAZ and DS from gaming communities. I keep my game development/modding and rendering /DS activities separate. The last thing I want is to buy game products in the store and hang out with wannabe game developers on the forums as I already do that elsewhere and it is a less than pleaseant experience more times than not. I sincerely hope they keep them separate.

    As for this leangthy discussion, I'll keep buying what I need and justify if the price is right for me and see how things go in the future. We'll see how/if sales taper out after the holidays, LOL.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    edited December 2016
    FSMCDesigns said:
    outrider42 said:
     

    As for this leangthy discussion, I'll keep buying what I need and justify if the price is right for me and see how things go in the future. We'll see how/if sales taper out after the holidays, LOL.

    I sincerely hope so. My credit card is warped and singed ;)

    Laurie

    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,990
    FSMCDesigns said:
    outrider42 said:
     Kill Morph3D and merge it into the Daz Store. If making this happen is a problem for current current, then make sure to do it for future content...Genesis 4. And raising the PA stake makes them happier and more likely to keep making content. Raising the stake also makes it easier to make those riskier product ideas that people are debating here.

    Heck no! I come to DAZ and DS from gaming communities. I keep my game development/modding and rendering /DS activities separate. The last thing I want is to buy game products in the store and hang out with wannabe game developers on the forums as I already do that elsewhere and it is a less than pleaseant experience more times than not. I sincerely hope they keep them separate.

    As for this leangthy discussion, I'll keep buying what I need and justify if the price is right for me and see how things go in the future. We'll see how/if sales taper out after the holidays, LOL.

    Essentially you're saying that these licenses prevent the majority of game devs from using Daz store content. You find this ok since you don't want these communities to mix. That doesn't sound like a commercial argument, rather one based on personal animosities. in fact to me that underlines the point that game dev licenses are having the unintended effect of keeping game devs away from Daz content rather than making commercial sense.

  • namnlosen_3af07481ddnamnlosen_3af07481dd Posts: 13
    edited December 2016
    Stonemason said:

     the currently available game licenses are effectively lifetime subscriptions to a vendor's entire catalogue

     

    I think the games license is good for only one game..so it's not really a lifetime pass

    I am thinking in terms of MMOs that can have years of regular content additions under the same single title, to say nothing of offline games that can release expansion packs or DLCs for as long as the developers want to support the title.

    Post edited by namnlosen_3af07481dd on
  • ZelrothZelroth Posts: 910

    I have not read this entire thread, but I want to stick in my 2 cents.

    I am not made of money.  I greatly appreciate great buys.  I extremely appreciate getting (at least) what I pay for.

    That said, I will admit most of my purchases are the PC items.  BUT!!! I do buy PA items when I have the funds and they call to me.  I even, upon occasion, will buy a PA item at (gasp) full price when I need it and can find the cash.  Do I like the fact that prices get raised?  I'm human (and cheapish) of course not.  Do I understand why prices may get higher?  Of course.  I like to eat and have a roof over my head so I assume others do too.  Will I cry and moan that product B is more expensive than similar product A that was released last year?  NO (but I may whimper a bit).  I appreciate all of our PAs and try to understand why they may actually want to make some money and feel as though what they make deserves said price.  Time isn't cheap.  Creativity can be hard. Fresh ideas even harder.  So as long as I can afford something, as long as Fast Grab is around, and as long as I feel the product is worth what is being asked, I will continue to support DAZ as much as I can.

    Thanks again to our wonderful PAs and to DAZ.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,178

    OMG Stonemason!!!!!!!!!

     

    UTTER BARGAIN!!!!!!!!

    yesyesyes

  • nelsonsmithnelsonsmith Posts: 1,337
    the3Ddigit said:

    OMG Stonemason!!!!!!!!!

     

    UTTER BARGAIN!!!!!!!!

    yesyesyes

    Yep,  I was thinking the same thing when I awoke this morning.   As with most things prices can be subjective, as there are PA's who put out consistently good work at a price that anyone can afford.

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,386
    edited December 2016

    @ 50 - 50 split

    Did not want to comment on this yesterday because this topic is importent enough to earn a post focused on it:

    give the venders at least 60-40 split instead of 50-50, and reap the rewards of a growing market that will send Daz forward for the next decade

    +1 on that.

    DAZ3D has huge additional costs for each product they sell. Administration, quality control, creating metadata.

    From that perspective it is fair that they get more than the ususal 10 percent.

    But getting half of the money that remains is not fair towards the artists especially when you consider the sales going on.

    I do not know what the deal is behind the scene.

    Maybe the agreement is that this 50 / 50 moves towards 70 / 30 once this whole business attracts a significant number of new customers?

    Support now and earn a return on investment later may be acceptable.

    If this is not the case then:

    - - -

    Why do I care about the share artists get as a customer?

    What I would like to see more in the store are high quality products with a lot of mirco level detail for close ups created by people who know how to use Zbrush, Substance, 3d scanners, motion capture.

    The more advanced 3d skills get the higher the costs for time spent learning, software and equipment.

    You cannot expect people who have a high cost to create high quality 3d models and motion captures to share their work for only 50 percent.

     

    Endless circle

    If artists do not get the money they feel they deserve some will simply stay away and not even consider a cooperation.

    Others will try to cut their costs by reducing the time spent on each asset and refrain from adding "unnecessary" detail. Unfortunately without those details the quality of the end product will be less good as it could be.

    Result:

    - New users will not be able to judge the limitations of a product just by looking at it and may buy it.

    - Experienced 3d artists nevertheless will not be fooled and refrain from buying.

     

    We are stuck in the current situation:

    The user base and the artists producing content will not grow in any significant way as long as people are not payed for their work as much as they should be.

    - - -

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    the3Ddigit said:

    OMG Stonemason!!!!!!!!!

     

    UTTER BARGAIN!!!!!!!!

    yesyesyes

    Yup I grab it too along with the alley . I could not resist picking it up for $8

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    linvanchene said:

    @ 50 - 50 split

    Did not want to comment on this yesterday because this topic is importent enough to earn a post focused on it:

    give the venders at least 60-40 split instead of 50-50, and reap the rewards of a growing market that will send Daz forward for the next decade

    +1 on that.

    DAZ3D has huge additional costs for each product they sell. Administration, quality control, creating metadata.

    From that perspective it is fair that they get more than the ususal 10 percent.

    But getting half of the money that remains is not fair towards the artists especially when you consider the sales going on.

    I do not know what the deal is behind the scene.

    Maybe the agreement is that this 50 / 50 moves towards 70 / 30 once this whole business attracts a significant number of new customers?

    Support now and earn a return on investment later may be acceptable.

    If this is not the case then:

    - - -

    Why do I care about the share artists get as a customer?

    What I would like to see more in the store are high quality products with a lot of mirco level detail for close ups created by people who know how to use Zbrush, Substance, 3d scanners, motion capture.

    The more advanced 3d skills get the higher the costs for time spent learning, software and equipment.

    You cannot expect people who have a high cost to create high quality 3d models and motion captures to share their work for only 50 percent.

     

    Endless circle

    If artists do not get the money they feel they deserve some will simply stay away and not even consider a cooperation.

    Others will try to cut their costs by reducing the time spent on each asset and refrain from adding "unnecessary" detail. Unfortunately without those details the quality of the end product will be less good as it could be.

    Result:

    - New users will not be able to judge the limitations of a product just by looking at it and may buy it.

    - Experienced 3d artists nevertheless will not be fooled and refrain from buying.

     

    We are stuck in the current situation:

    The user base and the artists producing content will not grow in any significant way as long as people are not payed for their work as much as they should be.

    - - -

    Vendors here get 50/50 as a starting point; anything beyond that is actually based on how well their products sell, which all the vendors (and anyone that is actively considering submitting products for sale here) is aware of. They also get other perks for selling here that I don't see equivalents for at Rendo, though I'm sure any vendor that sells at both stores could tell if such things do exist there.

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,418
    outrider42 said:
    Kill Morph3d, kill separate game licenses, give the venders at least 60-40 split instead of 50-50, and reap the rewards of a growing market that will send Daz forward for the next decade. This is where the market is going to be in the next few years, animation and gaming. If you ignore it, somebody else will come along and take it for themselves. Right now we are still in the wild west of sorts in this market. It is not defined. It is there for the taking. If Genesis 4 doesn't greatly enhance its gaming capabilities and licenses over G3, it will not be as successful as could be. It could even fall flat, because people aren't going to just stop using G3 or even G2 or V/M4. G4 has to be a huge leap.

    I'm not interested in gaming, either as a creator or player. Any increase in price to include game licensing would need to be a separate, excludable line item or my purchases would drop to nothing.

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