MANGA STYLE & VISUAL STYLE topic - Update Sept 23rd 2017: Fixed Dropbox links! [Commercial]

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  • ghastlycomicghastlycomic Posts: 2,460

    I've found a quick and effective way to produce authentic cell shading is to use the Manga - Basic Duo Sharp 150. I get rid of all the Screentone images, then set the Diffuse map as the Colour Paper and the Colour Tone 1 image setting the colour value to white then depending on whether or not the diffuse map has a lot of colour and detail information I either create a separate Diffuse map which is how I want everything to look when it is shaded and plug it into Colour Tone 2 to 4 and Colour Outline and set their colour value to white or if the diffuse image doesn't have a lot of colour variation and has a single dominant colour I'll just plug the Diffuse map into all Colour Tones and Colour outline, and set the colour value for 2 to 4 and outline to a darker shade of the dominant map colour.

    Or if I really just want to do something quick and dirty I plug the diffuse map into Colour Paper, all Colour Tones and Colour Outline. Set the value for Colour Paper and Colour Tone 1 to white and set the value for Colour Tone 2 to 4 and Colour Outline to Grey 160.

    It's very tedious and there's a lot of duplication as far as values go. Is there a better shader in the pack I should be using for this. One that would idealy have the Colour Paper and Tone 1 combined and Colour Tone 2 to 4 and Colour Outline combined so it's only a single setting for what I want the image to render as where it's lit and what I want the image to render as when it's in shadow which would spead up setting up cell shaders for scenes with lots of objects, because usually when you're doing cell shading you're only worrying about those two colour values, what's in the light and what's in the shadow.

  • @TheNathanParable, thank you, sir. That's exactly what I needed. Should've been able to make the logical leap myself, but I'm glad you're one of the rare PAs who's both responsive and deeply knowledgeable. Love the shaders!

  • MardookMardook Posts: 282

    @Mardook Unfortunately pwToon isn't my product (my products are Visual Style and Manga Style), so I don't think I can be much help. I have absolutely no idea why pwToon is doing that. What's especially weird is that it doesn't seem to be the normal type of transparency (where you can see the eyeballs and the inside of the mouth through the head), but instead it seems to be the more advanced ghost effect that you'd get with pwGhost. Do you have pwGhost installed? Maybe there's some sort of conflict with the two shaders?

    I've never considered that... will give it a try. I haven't tried VIsual Style to see if it has a similar issues. Will check though. : )

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,080

    So where/how exactly are the Manga Shaders used in this?  It's looks very nice, colorful cartoony, but my experience with the Manga shaders was more B&W or pattern related...?

    Doing some experimentation with the Manga shaders. Starting to really like them.

     

     

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 2,691
    3dOutlaw said:

    So where/how exactly are the Manga Shaders used in this?  It's looks very nice, colorful cartoony, but my experience with the Manga shaders was more B&W or pattern related...?

    Doing some experimentation with the Manga shaders. Starting to really like them.

     

     

    I think he used VSS.

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,080

    True, it could be, but there is some decoration still on the orange clothing, which I assumed would be loat in appying the VSS shader to it.  Keeping that detail, but making it look toony, make me curious about it.  (I assume the background is not a render)

  • TheNathanParableTheNathanParable Posts: 970
    edited October 2017

    I believe Ghastly explained his technique in the post right at the top of this page. To put it simply, he's plugging the diffuse textures into the "Paper/Tone Colour" parameters in Manga Style, and changing the screentone settings so that they appear solid instead of patterned. It's definitely not what I intended when I included those Colour parameters (they were intended to make basic pop-art images in the same vein as Lichtenstein), but it does seem to work and it looks great.

    3dOutlaw said:

    True, it could be, but there is some decoration still on the orange clothing, which I assumed would be loat in appying the VSS shader to it.

    You can use textures with VSS, but unfortunately they have to be manually applied to each colour property in the shader, which can get tedious. At the time VSS was made it wasn't possible for shaders made with Shader Mixer to retain a surface's existing textures, so I wasn't able to take advantage of such a feature at the time.

    Post edited by TheNathanParable on
  • OK, Visual Style masters, there is a picture on VS selling page in DAZ store.

    Does anyone know, how to apply those shaders and keep body hair, skin defects like mole and spots nipples and stuff? Is there a real possibility to make renders in airbrush style? Where to find at least some starting advices, how to reach such effect?

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,080

    I am answering so I can be officially qualified as a "Visual Style Master"!  cheeky

    See this post, and the following responses...it may help:  https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1511236/#Comment_1511236

  • Yeah, long story short, that render was done using the standard VS shaders and manually re-applying the diffuse and specular textures. I believe it was the specular map in particular that gave it that nice airbrushed effect, though it's been so long ago now that I can no longer remember.

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,080

    Another options is the SImplify filter from Topaz (you can use it in Paint.Net, or their studio which both are free, and I can send you a $20 off referral)  You can use that on the textures, like I did in that further down post, and then the textures match well with VSS...or just use the textures as is?  A little more work, but nice results...

  • Thank you for rapid answers, good people!

  • pavsikakyjpavsikakyj Posts: 51
    edited November 2017

    One more question: how to deal with eyes? How to make a glare in corneas?

     

    Post edited by pavsikakyj on
  • For me, there's two ways of doing it.

    The dynamic way; Standard Daz shader, opacity set to 0, turn off "multiply specular with opacity", change specular strength and gloss until you get a nice highlight (might have to set the default shader to metallic).

    The texture based way; Use a cornea texture with a painted highlight as an opacity map, set the shader to use a white ambient colour at 100% strength. You can find some nice cornea opacity maps in various toon/anime eye texture packs. One of my favourite packs for this is SnowSultan's Animeyes for Aiko4 and Hiro4. You have to be careful though that you make sure the figure you're using has compatible UV maps before you think of buying them.

    Animeyes for A4 H4: https://www.daz3d.com/animeyes-for-a4-h4
    Awesome Anime Eyes Genesis 3 Female(s): https://www.daz3d.com/awesome-anime-eyes-genesis-3-female
    DG Toon Style Eyes for Genesis 2 Male(s): https://www.daz3d.com/dg-toon-style-eyes-for-genesis-2-male-s
    DG Toon Style Eyes for Genesis 2 Female(s): https://www.daz3d.com/dg-toon-style-eyes-for-genesis-2-female-s
    Touched Anime Eyes for Genesis: https://www.daz3d.com/touched-anime-eyes-for-genesis

    Here's a quick list of some Anime Eye texture packs I found. I haven't used all of them, but judging from the promos they include a lot of really nice eye textures.

    Hope this helps!

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,080

    For custom corneas (say anime style), you could also use a geometry shell, and turn off (opacity) all textures but the cornea, and then set a opacity map for that.  That way you could keep teh existing textures, as is, and the cornea is on top of it.

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,080

    Anyone have the problem that periodically all of the VSS shaders go white (during render) on a character, then you have to just reload the entire scene, and it self-heals?  It happens quite often to me, but I typically just say "ugh" and reload.  If there was an easier way, I would like to know!  (else it may just be my system)

  • I've had that happen with other shaders before, such as AoA's Subsurface Scattering shaders. No idea why it happens.

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,080

    OK, not a big deal.

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,080

    A recent render  :)  (click for full-size)

     

  • 3dOutlaw said:

    A recent render  :)  (click for full-size)

     

     

    Love it!

  •  

    3dOutlaw said:

    A recent render  :)  (click for full-size)

     

     

    Nice! Thank you for your help!

  • 3dOutlaw said:

    A recent render  :)  (click for full-size)

     

    Can I ask where the nerdy girl got her tied at the waist shirt?

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,080
    I think the outfit is called riot girl...its a great outfit!
  • Hihi everyone!  Sooo just getting into Daz3D and visual style shader, and was trying to follow

    and was chatting a bit in https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/216331/difference-between-npr-shaders#latest

    and was looking through the manual http://docs.daz3d.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/public/read_me/index/14398/14398_visual-style-shaders.pdf

    So far its working as I'd hoped / getting there (I'm trying to get the old Sin-city pulp-comic kind of look, at least until we get shaders that look like actual 2d drawings like the ones from the non-realistic thread)

     

    So the question - I'm probably not understanding something critical, but I can't seem to get shadows on here - to be specific, the full out black shadows like in that tutorial vid, manual, and some of the images on here - where the outline is black, shadow is black, and then you get white (or whatever-solid-color skin tone).  No gradient, greys, etc.  So far I've tried the smart-suggestion area lights, the basic back distant lights, the create->light->spotlights, all of them I made sure had shadows on (tried raytracing and depthmap, tried giving the shadows colors to see if maybe they're just getting lost)... nothing shows in the 3Delight render (that's the one we're supposed to use, right?).

    On the surface I have:

    Occulusion: Bias (-1), Cone Angle (65) Dark/Light: (full white), Max Distance (0), Samples (20), Strength (1)
    Bump: Map (Whtie), Max (0.1) Min (-0.1), Strength (0)
    Accept Shadows: On
    Diffuse: Dark (Black), Light (White)
    Shading: End (7.1), Start (7)
    Displacement: Map (White), Max (0.1), Min (-0.1), Strength (0)
    Opacity (1)
    Specular Through Opacity (On)
    Outline: Dark (Black), Light (Black), End (0.51), Start (0.5)
    Specular: Colour (White), Glossiness (0), Sharpness (0), Strength (0)
    UV Set: Base Female (this is Geneis 8)
    Angle 89.9
    Smooth: On

    Naturally I tried other settings and messed around, its just where its at now.  I know I'm just not understanding some property or another... any thoughts or suggestions?  Any make-easy -for-dummies tutorial out there for getting that look?

     

    VSshadertest_171215.png
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  • TheNathanParableTheNathanParable Posts: 970
    edited December 2017

    Do you have any lights in your scene? The effect works best when you have a single directional light with shadows set to raycast.

    EDIT: Wait, sorry, somehow missed that part of the post, let me re-read it.

    EDIT 2: I think I see the problem, it's that dang Max Distance again. This has been a problem before. In Daz Studio 4.0 it worked fine, but in Daz Studio 4.5 something changed and the Max Distance started working differently. Set the Max Distance on all your surfaces to something small but not zero (e.g 0.01) and it should work fine.

    Post edited by TheNathanParable on
  • edited December 2017

    mmm.. I've tried occlusion max distance to 0.001, 0.1, 1.. no luck - am I setting the wrong distance?  (as an aside, the shadow color of the spotlight is set to 'red' and its just coming out black, don't know if that's overriden)

    maxDistanceSet.jpg
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    Post edited by nocforweb_9420025c24 on
  • You shouldn't change the shadow colour of the spotlight, that might be interfearing with the shader. Aside from that though I can't fathom why it isn't working for you.

  • Tried changing it to black, and tried a different pose and such as well.. no such luck.. I have the spotlight almost (but not quite) opposite the figure so the side facing the camera should be dark, the arm should be casting a shadow over the other arm..  Attaching the practice file (Genesis 8, manga shader, some outfit or another that's not important if it doesn't load)   :'(  

    duf
    duf
    practiceShader.duf
    2M
  • Anyone else?  Any thoughts?  

  • I'll try and have a look at it when I get some time. :)

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