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Genesis 10

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  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 3,269
    edited September 18

    Ruthven said:

    What I hope is a 3 figure set: masculine, feminine, and gender-neutral (more similar to Genesis 1 than 9) for creatures, all with cross/figure features for wearables and similar.

    What benefit are you imagining this would add? Unless they have different weight maps (which would break clothing compatibility), then there's not going to be any meaningful difference from a unisex base. And it would *absolutely* break geografts.

    Admittedly, one thing I'm peeved that Daz did not set up as a standard for G9 was to have masculine figures all built on top of the base masculine shape and feminine figures all built off base feminine so that clothes could at least rely on being able to have those two base shapes supported rather than having to approximate the entirety of any unknown morph with auto-follow.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 111,516
    edited September 18

    richardandtracy said:

    I don't think you can completely divorce the version of DS from the talk about the base figures. The reason being that when a new base figure is added, the code inside DS is adapted. No version of DS 3 can render a G8 or G9 character, so DS version and base figure are linked. Regards, Richard.

    All versions of Genesis require Daz Studio 4+ as that was the first version with full weight-mapping* (among other features) which they require.

     

    * I beleive the OptiTex content did use a weight-mapped rig, how similar it was to the system used in DS 4 for the standard content I don't know.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • YuiYui Posts: 30

    richardandtracy said:

    I don't think you can completely divorce the version of DS from the talk about the base figures. The reason being that when a new base figure is added, the code inside DS is adapted. No version of DS 3 can render a G8 or G9 character, so DS version and base figure are linked. Regards, Richard.

    Thank you.

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,843

    Some people really just need to learn how to turn morph dials.

  • NylonGirlNylonGirl Posts: 2,398

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    the only possible things that could sell me on a Genesis 10 would be

    separate body parts with individual subdivision to optimize facial HD without the whole mesh and geoshells needing to be subdivided 

    can swap out those body parts IE heads, limbs etc (already doable with geogfafts) so really G10 would be a highpoly head with addable body parts

    like Unreal Metahumans

    There would be people selling just the head and expecting you to buy the rest of the body as an add-on. 

  • TimbalesTimbales Posts: 2,452
    I'd be interested in Genesis 10 if the chest mesh doesn't have the heavier density of the breast area to facilitate an ample female bosom, compromising the possibilities for male presenting shapes.
  • jmucchiellojmucchiello Posts: 2,218

    There is one thing a new figure could do. It could change the way parameters and morphs work such that if you have a large library of them, they aren't all loaded at once. Changing how the older Gens work would probably cause unexpected secondary effects that would annoy users. Starting with a new figure type, there would be less growing pains, as it were.

    Of course, the new coding would mean no DS4 support, so it's unlikely we'd see this any time soon, as I and others above have pointed out.

    Oh, and I assume it would be called Genesis X or GX just because it's a meme to use Roman numerals for version 5/10 of a product even if Roman numerals aren't used for prior versions.

  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 3,269
    edited September 19

    SnowSultan said:

    Why do you assume G9 is hated?

    If G9 weren't a commercial success, then either Daz would have already replaced it or we would have seen them rolling back to primarily G8; they are a medium-sized business, they can't afford to keep pushing a failed campaign for four years out of spite.

    There are a mix of criticisms around G9.

    • Some are reasonably well founded - having everything on the same base increases load times and makes smart content filtering less capable if you don't want butt-out pin-up poses.
    • Others are a question of trade-offs - lack of nipple geometry gives less flexibility on nude characters, but improves morph following on clothes.
    • A few make complaints that are equally if not more true about its predecessors - such as the occasional claim that the edge loops on G9 are in the wrong place, so the correctives are a nuisance and figure doesn't bend right (but then, anyone who's ever tried making ThighSide JCMs for G8 will know that the edge flow straight across that bend is awful)
    • And some that are really just conspiracies that have persisted despite considerable evidence to the contrary. For example, despite being a androgynous base, there hasn't been any influx of transgender/gender-neutral content like some said would happen. Indeed, none of G9's 100+ core characters have been marketed that way* (whereas we had a few explicitly queer core characters or DO bundles in G8) - if anything, I would argue that G9 being an androgynous base has actually discouraged the production and marketing of that kind of content; when it's a standard feature of the figure, there's really nothing new to sell.

    * Sure, we've had things like Victoria Male, Michael Female, Xola Feminine, etc, but they're variants of the figure rather than being a "canon" point of the characters' identities.

    However, whatever those criticisms are, they can't reasonably add up to saying that G9 is universally hated, because if it really were, the money would have already talked.

    And, to be clear, I say that as someone who is so-so on G9 and still predominantly uses G8.

     

    Post edited by Matt_Castle on
  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 2,507

    nightwolf1982 said:

    Genesis 10 would be a mistake at this point in time.  Genesis 9 is pushing the technical limitations of Daz Studio, whether you're using DS4 or DS6.  There really isn't anything feature-wise that can be implemented that would make an entire new figure necessary or viable.

    I don't think, that especially G9 pushes technical limits.
    Those limits have been pushed with G8. G9 has infact been stepping down.
    There is nothing really, that can be improved with figures. The DAZ Studio application has to be improved now.
    Better animation
    Feet/Hands floor contact
    Better rigging system for more realistic joint bendings
    Soft body tissue simulation (Bones, muscles and fat)
    Way better universal expression tools. Those current FACS don't work better than Morph Targets.
    Smoothing modefier for more than just one host figure, in order to avoide poke throughs on layered clothes.
    Much more important, than another Genesis figure would be finally a new real time Hair and clothes simulation.

  • Ryuu@AMcCFRyuu@AMcCF Posts: 807

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    the only possible things that could sell me on a Genesis 10 would be

    separate body parts with individual subdivision to optimize facial HD without the whole mesh and geoshells needing to be subdivided 

    can swap out those body parts IE heads, limbs etc (already doable with geogfafts) so really G10 would be a highpoly head with addable body parts

    like Unreal Metahumans

    the bodies need not be humanoid

    a quadruped and upright version that can share poses, clothing etc

    so dressed cats and other critters which take their normal form but can be anthropomorphic and conversely humans can take a beastly cryptid quadruped form

    (I already could do this for over a decade with iMotions in iClone 6, it's just having the same bones named and posed the same, usually Autodesk biped)

    a subscription option that actually lets people create HDMorphs and dforce Strandbased hair instead of spending money at online AI sites instead of DAZ3D to get what they want

     

    This I could really buy into! And not just the little cats, but the big fellows, too--so that we could do Caitians, Kzin, Aslan, Hrrallan, etc. Then there could be new dragon/draconian, dog/Vargr, feral/anthro-griffons, etc.

    Hopefully plenty of options [Character Species for Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) Fifth Edition (5e) - D&D Beyond] for our developers to consider?? laugh

  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 2,507
    edited 5:23AM

    Ryuu@AMcCF said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    the only possible things that could sell me on a Genesis 10 would be

    separate body parts with individual subdivision to optimize facial HD without the whole mesh and geoshells needing to be subdivided 

    can swap out those body parts IE heads, limbs etc (already doable with geogfafts) so really G10 would be a highpoly head with addable body parts

    like Unreal Metahumans

    Or like Poser 7?
    Hell No!!!  wink  
    Please, not another "Portraits only" figure like Victoria 4 and Genesis 9.
     

    Post edited by Masterstroke at
  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 2,507
     

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    a subscription option that actually lets people create HDMorphs and dforce Strandbased hair
    instead of spending money at online AI sites instead of DAZ3D to get what they want

    Oh God, Hell NO!!! to subscription.
    YES !!! to perpetual paid HD Morphs  
    And please, anything better than dforce.

  • RuthvenRuthven Posts: 702

    Matt_Castle said:

    Ruthven said:

    What I hope is a 3 figure set: masculine, feminine, and gender-neutral (more similar to Genesis 1 than 9) for creatures, all with cross/figure features for wearables and similar.

    What benefit are you imagining this would add? Unless they have different weight maps (which would break clothing compatibility), then there's not going to be any meaningful difference from a unisex base. And it would *absolutely* break geografts.

    Admittedly, one thing I'm peeved that Daz did not set up as a standard for G9 was to have masculine figures all built on top of the base masculine shape and feminine figures all built off base feminine so that clothes could at least rely on being able to have those two base shapes supported rather than having to approximate the entirety of any unknown morph with auto-follow.

    It's because I don't like how G9 unisex chest  turns out to males; It has too a "boobish" look to me; to get it right, I have to set female to negative. I also prefere a more "V" shape line for those muscles on man. I think the two models tend to look better when built specifically. So, if it is wanted to keep a single base figure, then I think there should be added more polygons at least to allow those kind of differences to be morphed out better, instead of building something "in-between" that actually looks good on neither.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 41,612

    Masterstroke said:

    Ryuu@AMcCF said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    the only possible things that could sell me on a Genesis 10 would be

    separate body parts with individual subdivision to optimize facial HD without the whole mesh and geoshells needing to be subdivided 

    can swap out those body parts IE heads, limbs etc (already doable with geogfafts) so really G10 would be a highpoly head with addable body parts

    like Unreal Metahumans

    Or like Poser 7?
    Hell No!!!  wink  
    Please, not another "Portraits only" figure like Victoria 4 and Genesis 9.
     

    somehow you seemed to have totally misunderstood everything I said, not separate meshes like early Poser content but geographed producing one single mesh

    basicly the start with a sphere idea but a head

    can have as many faces and whatever UVs you wish

    kind of like Spore Creature creator

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 41,612

    Masterstroke said:

     

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    a subscription option that actually lets people create HDMorphs and dforce Strandbased hair
    instead of spending money at online AI sites instead of DAZ3D to get what they want

    Oh God, Hell NO!!! to subscription.
    YES !!! to perpetual paid HD Morphs  
    And please, anything better than dforce.

    they don't even want to give us the dforce hair or HDmorphs

    at any price

    I loath subscriptions too

    but I would prefer to pay them if that's what it takes than go without or rely on others to make something not even halfway to what I want

  • davidwski_16294691f0davidwski_16294691f0 Posts: 178
    edited 3:33PM

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    the only possible things that could sell me on a Genesis 10 would be

    separate body parts with individual subdivision to optimize facial HD without the whole mesh and geoshells needing to be subdivided 

    can swap out those body parts IE heads, limbs etc (already doable with geogfafts) so really G10 would be a highpoly head with addable body parts

    like Unreal Metahumans

    the bodies need not be humanoid

    a quadruped and upright version that can share poses, clothing etc

    so dressed cats and other critters which take their normal form but can be anthropomorphic and conversely humans can take a beastly cryptid quadruped form

    (I already could do this for over a decade with iMotions in iClone 6, it's just having the same bones named and posed the same, usually Autodesk biped)

    a subscription option that actually lets people create HDMorphs and dforce Strandbased hair instead of spending money at online AI sites instead of DAZ3D to get what they want

     

    Regarding the hair, there is a newly updated product called Vision FX Version 3 that has been released as a stand alone, locally used, product with a "perpetual" license, no subscription. It used to be an add on for Paint Shop Pro.  It needs a decent computer, but offers multiple AI models, and editing capabilities.

    The models need to be downloaded, but is meant to be run offline.  You can literally run dozens of iterations from the same base image.

    Post edited by davidwski_16294691f0 at
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 41,612

    davidwski_16294691f0 said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    the only possible things that could sell me on a Genesis 10 would be

    separate body parts with individual subdivision to optimize facial HD without the whole mesh and geoshells needing to be subdivided 

    can swap out those body parts IE heads, limbs etc (already doable with geogfafts) so really G10 would be a highpoly head with addable body parts

    like Unreal Metahumans

    the bodies need not be humanoid

    a quadruped and upright version that can share poses, clothing etc

    so dressed cats and other critters which take their normal form but can be anthropomorphic and conversely humans can take a beastly cryptid quadruped form

    (I already could do this for over a decade with iMotions in iClone 6, it's just having the same bones named and posed the same, usually Autodesk biped)

    a subscription option that actually lets people create HDMorphs and dforce Strandbased hair instead of spending money at online AI sites instead of DAZ3D to get what they want

     

    Regarding the hair, there is a newly updated product called Vision FX Version 3 that has been released as a stand alone, locally used, product with a "perpetual" license, no subscription. It used to be an add on for Paint Shop Pro.  It needs a decent computer, but offers multiple AI models, and editing capabilities.

    I can use Fooocus inpainting on my own PC to do that 

    I wanted 3D CGI dynamic strandbased hair in DAZ Studio

    I can also do that in Carrara, Poser, Blender and Unreal Engine

  • MKDAWUSSMKDAWUSS Posts: 98

    G10 will be announced the second I cave and move on to G9. laugh Probably.

    I'll probably give G10 a chance, since chances are by then, G8 will be showing its age. I do wonder if G10 will be a product of AI, though.

  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 824
    edited 7:01PM

    My hopes for G10 - At minimum:

    Separate female and male characters.

    Head of G9F/M (better expressions) on body of G8F/M (better bending).

    "Zero pose" like that of G9 with feet flat on the floor.

    Flat and heeled footwear backwards compatibility with G9.

    Clothing/hair backwards compatibility at least as far back as G8F/M.

     

    Post edited by nakamuram002 at
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