Genesis 10
Yui
Posts: 26
Will there ever be a G10 model, and will it be as hated as G9 was/is?
Post edited by Richard Haseltine at
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If we get G10 and it is bad or even somehow worse, I think it would just result in acquiescence. You can only shock and awe like that once, the second time people just roll their eyes and move on or they begrudgingly accept it.
Also, many are permanently on G8 and DS4 I think. There is no changing that due to reliance on older hardware due to the expense of the hardware and the reliance on older scripts. Those 2 things don't seem like they will change in the forseable future.
SO I think if they want G10 to succeed it has to be backwards compatible with DS4 and G8 and G9. Probably way to big of a thing to actually happen.
Or maybe it goes in a completely different direction. A 3D avatar that is completely AI driven, from the morphs, to the posing, to the changing of clothes. Not that I personally would buy it, but just thinking out of the proverbial box how I would keep it alive. Either you have to collect your core audience under one tent, who are currently split between G8 and G9, or you have to go way out there and get the folks who are into AI. Just my thoughts, nothing but pure speculation.
Moved to the Common as it is not a Daz Studio application topic.
Daz has not said anything about a Genesis 10.
Eventually, sure. And all things are hated by some number of people.
I will be surprised if G10 arrives and it is backwards compatible with DS4; the economy is bad, expendable income is low, it's a bad time to ask the customers to buy an entirely new set of content, so for G10 to be a success, I think it would need to have some killer feature that is not already present on G8 or G9, and can't be practically retrofitted to it... and there's strong odds that anything that might be will require new program features that they won't be adding into DS4.
I'm pretty much invested in G9. I'm not creating enough art these days to justify collecting everything again.
Why do you assume G9 is hated? I think it's much better than G8, and it's certainly being supported by both DAZ and PAs.
I don't really think we *need* a G10 any time soon, I'd rather see improvements and features added to the new DAZ Studio. This isn't something I'd worry about now though.
Because a handful of loud, chronic complainers can easily be mistaken for a consensus.
When would PAs, still trying to catch up to DS6 support for existing plugins, have time to create a robust G10 ecosystem?
The generational changeover seems to be around 4 years. I think both V4 & G8 are causing DAZ issues with such a long tail to their usage that G9 probably hasn't reach its full potential away from the DAZ store, especially given the lack of a major technological leap compared to G8. As for a G10.. I suspect few people have an appetite for it yet, and will only do so once there is a visible and significant benefit to using G10. And that will involve completion of the transfer of script tools to DS6 as well as a real 'something' that makes it easier to use or makes the images have a 'wow' factor compared to ones featuring the current in-use generations.
I think it's getting a lot harder to get the required step change to justify a complete new generation, because DS is such a mature & evolved product. That in itself means that the easy, middling and moderately hard stuff has already been done, leaving only the 'extremely hard' improvements to be made.
Regards,
Richard
the only possible things that could sell me on a Genesis 10 would be
separate body parts with individual subdivision to optimize facial HD without the whole mesh and geoshells needing to be subdivided
can swap out those body parts IE heads, limbs etc (already doable with geogfafts) so really G10 would be a highpoly head with addable body parts
like Unreal Metahumans
the bodies need not be humanoid
a quadruped and upright version that can share poses, clothing etc
so dressed cats and other critters which take their normal form but can be anthropomorphic and conversely humans can take a beastly cryptid quadruped form
(I already could do this for over a decade with iMotions in iClone 6, it's just having the same bones named and posed the same, usually Autodesk biped)
a subscription option that actually lets people create HDMorphs and dforce Strandbased hair instead of spending money at online AI sites instead of DAZ3D to get what they want
I'm only just starting to use the G9, and I haven't even installed most of my G9 products yet because of hard drive space...
I hope that both the official team and PA can fully realize that hard drive space is the biggest obstacle to new products, and this situation will continue for several years.
If the G10 is simply a higher quality version with larger file sizes and higher hardware requirements, I can't afford it.
However, I would be very interested if the G10 is highly backward compatible, allowing direct application of G9 and G8 figures without conversion (or with a high-performance converter), and also features more realistic muscle simulation.
But rather than working on the G10, I believe there are other things that need to be prioritized for improvement.
It was easier in the beginning, where things generally were of such a quality compared to today, that there was a huge potential for improvement. The closer you reach perfection, the more difficult it becomes to make improvements that can justify the cost of upgrading. Plus it often requires hardware upgrades, which is a big issue for many, especially right now. Many with older but still powerful graphics card simply can't use them with DS6.
This.
There will certainly be another base figure at some point, but nothing has been mentioned so far. And every single base figure release causes complaints.
I hope not, ans if I hope everything I already bought ist compatible. by the way, I don't hate Genesis 9. For me it's the best character of all the Genesis characters.
Well, I'd call myself a Genesis 9 hater. Wouldn't say everybody hates G9, but at least I am one of them. But who am I to judge. I also hated the most successful figure Victoria 4.
So a possible Genesis 10 means hope to me. It can only get better.
Seperate figure genders, making eyes and mouth a part of the main figure again, bringing back A stance... Oh wait, that is pretty much G8.
So, seriously I think, there is nothing that can be done with a new figure. Daz has to improve its feature list.
Look at Reallusion and you can see, what I mean. No, I don't mean AI.
I absolutely hate AI.
Genesis 10 will be an AI agent that can generate DAZ artists and customers,to buy the artist's work, thus removing the most unstable factor in the equation ... squishy humans. Ugh humans ... hurray AI agents ... where real intelligence lives.
What I hope is a 3 figure set: masculine, feminine, and gender-neutral (more similar to Genesis 1 than 9) for creatures, all with cross/figure features for wearables and similar. HIgh detailed, possibly, like Genesis 2.
Probalby asking too much but... hey, dreaming is (still) free.
Personally would prefer "dForce2 - Now with less explosions" way before any new Genesis figure.
How in the heck is it not!? All this time I thought my topic was deleted! Tried searching for it, and nothing came up. No notification whatsoever as to what happened, or when people reply! I'm now only finding it after mentioning it in another topic, and someone gave me the link! >:{
Figures are, for the most part, software-agnostic. The Daz Studio forum is for questions directly related to DS software.
All new generation figures will be hated by anyone who does not want to adapt to change. Thats just a human reaction.
As someone who works with g9 all day every day, I can safely say it is the best generation of figures produced for d/s. It is way more versitile than any previous generation and can easier adapt to even the extreme shapes I make for it.
But that said, there will really be no need for a G10 until there is some marked improvement in what can be done with d/s. If there is no serious technical growth, then it would just be change for the sake of change and not really becoming an improvement. Right now G9 is perfectly suited for the current state of d/s
ten, spend, will it even bend.
Are you getting on the 10 train?
I actually felt way more creatve during V4 time. I know overall enjoyed myself a lot more.Was using Poser though. I think if DAZ hadn't gone away from Poser products I would still be using it.
Get the basic figures right first, so they look, and bend like real people ( men and women ), and have basic detail like nipples. Provide the end user with the ability to morph the figures across the wide range of real human shapes Once all that is working, then is the time to consider extreme shapes.
I didn't realize DS6 was more demanding. For me, everything loads up more faster than DS4, and the UI & Texture Shade mode looks so much better! Unfortunately I had to uninstalled it a few days ago, because it's too buggy! Crazy how the Public Beta was "more stable".
It is not a Daz Studio application discussion. This is a figure discussion.
With my limited experience so far of G9, I have to say that the HD versions look awesome when rendered. However, G9 HD versions of the same character take my PC 3x as long in 4k as their G8 HD counterpart. I don't exactly have a low spec rendering PC either. For occasional use, I'll tolerate the increased production time, it's only to be expected. File size is somewhat of a concern, especially hair products - I have several hairs over 2Gb in size
One thing that does really bug me is that virtually all the sliders have different names. For instance, if I want to open a mouth, in G8 I type "mouth" into the parameter search box and "mouth open" is there. Not in G9 though. It took me ages to figure out that it is now "jaw open". Seriously? Who coded that? It makes no logical sense whatsoever. Same with lip actions, they've all changed and some of what is in G8 is not in G9. Slider naming in G9 makes no sense at all.
For this reason, I've decided to build a third PC, purely for G9 and, likely as not, DS6, so I can keep everything completely separated.
Genesis 10 would be a mistake at this point in time. Genesis 9 is pushing the technical limitations of Daz Studio, whether you're using DS4 or DS6. There really isn't anything feature-wise that can be implemented that would make an entire new figure necessary or viable.
What benefit are you imagining this would add? Unless they have different weight maps (which would break clothing compatibility), then there's not going to be any meaningful difference from a unisex base. And it would *absolutely* break geografts.
Admittedly, one thing I'm peeved that Daz did not set up as a standard for G9 was to have masculine figures all built on top of the base masculine shape and feminine figures all built off base feminine so that clothes could at least rely on being able to have those two base shapes supported rather than having to approximate the entirety of any unknown morph with auto-follow.
"G9 is woke" has come up many times. I assume this mostly comes about from the fact that the G9 base is gender-neutral.
However, I cannot help but see it that G8 was much more woke than G9.
G8 - or, in most cases specifically G8.1 - had at least Torment, Catty and August who were all some variety of gender-neutral, genderqueer or transgender, And we also had core characters who were marketed with disabilities - Bonnie was supposed to have Down syndrome, Victoria 8.1 and Michael 8.1 were marketed as hard of hearing or requiring a wheelchair.
G9 has, to the best of my knowledge, no core characters who have been marketed as LGBTQ or disabled. Yes, the core characters come with material options to that can be used for either set of anatomy, and a few have swapped-gender variants, but skins do not have to be used on the characters or morphs they came with. You can take Victoria 9's "male" skin and put it onto a masculine morph, and you can actually have a clean shaven 19 year old, rather than the baked in wrinkles and stubble that many male character skins come with.
G8 also had some products (although not all of them "core") that could be considered "gender-subversive", such as evening dresses that were only for G8M or moustaches for G8F. There is basically no possibility of G8's "Break the Binary" bundle happening for G9, because everything is for everyone. There is no G9 Transgender shapes set, there is no G9 Pride bundle... it would be pretty hard to come up with enough LGBTQ themed products to make an entire G9 bundle.
If Daz had ever been trying to push an LGBTQ narrative, G9 may well have been the death of it, because you can't be subversive when there's nothing to subvert.
G9's androgyny adds options and flexibility for users, such as actually being able to have brothers and sisters resemble each other. Yes, some users may have used G9 to make transgender characters, but I cannot recall a single case where Daz themselves actually marketed anything that way.
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I think (as I said in the previous section) that there were mistakes that Daz made in the implementation of an androgynous figure, but I don't think that going back to split bases will actually address most of the things people want it to.