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Please help me find a Dforce skirt with a ruffle that starts out as a circle around waist

Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786
edited July 12 in The Commons

Please help me find a Dforce skirt with a ruffle that starts out as a circle around waist.

This was done in Poser by several product artists.

It makes draping so much easier in certain poses.  

I can pair the skirt with so many products I have the top for.  

I have a feeling with will be moved to product suggestions and if so, so be it.  

I made the exact one I want in Meshy AI, however I am do not know how to add Dforce to it.  Perhaps I need to make it Deciminated more if it is too many megabytes.  It is 11 mgs now.

The is the link to my shared Alice in Wonderland freebie files. 

AIW

There is a Clothes File in there.  It's the circle skirt that I would like to add dforce to.  Please make this a dforce skirt for me :)

I have Decimated all of my obj files so they are not so heavy in Daz Studio.  If something doesn't work, I am sorry!!!  This is a freebie and I don't know what I am doing LOL

Post edited by Jan_Scrapper on

Comments

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,680

    Most dForce clothing items are around 20-30K polygons or less, and that skirt has 800K. You could try to use it in a simulation, but it would take ages, and quite likely it would fail.

    I have dForced items with as much as 60K, but beyond that will be a struggle. You need to run a decimation to reduce the polys to 5-10% of the original, which could affect the look.

  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786

    Ok, I won't be able to work on this until next week, however if anyone wants to try, that will be awesome!!

  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 3,200

    I wouldn't touch AI-created mesh with a bargepole when it comes to dForce. A good dForce mesh needs smooth topology; anything that is going to be inefficent at best and probably completely collapse, and more likely just detonate.

    This is the kind of thing where trying to fix the AI mesh will be more effort than just starting from scratch.

    When I was making a full-circle skirt, my mesh was just completely square topology:

    CircleSkirtWireframePromo.jpg
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  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786
    edited July 12

    Matt_Castle said:

    I wouldn't touch AI-created mesh with a bargepole when it comes to dForce. A good dForce mesh needs smooth topology; anything that is going to be inefficent at best and probably completely collapse, and more likely just detonate.

    This is the kind of thing where trying to fix the AI mesh will be more effort than just starting from scratch.

    When I was making a full-circle skirt, my mesh was just completely square topology:

    This is so beautiful!!!  Did you just do that???

    I do not know anything about modeling :(

    So, I want a ruffle on the bottom and I want the skirt to be mid-calf if straight.  Also, I would like a waist band.  The skirt, the ruffle and the waist band need to have separate materials zones.  I would certainly purchase this is I could get exactly what I wanted.

     I had a scene where I wanted the girl to be picking flowers in her garden and sort of crouching.  I wanted her skirt to flow over the sidewalk and border rocks.  

    Sirts that start down cannot flow properly for this sort of thing.  There could be a morph which lifted the skirt up into a circle.

    I need to start with the skirt in a circle around her waist.

    Post edited by Jan_Scrapper on
  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 3,200

    Jan_Scrapper said:

    This is so beautiful!!!  Did you just do that???

    Something I did some time back, originally because someone was having trouble getting their own effort to work, and I threw something together for testing purposes.

    It's hypothetically in the pipeline as something I might release, but needs a load of boring stuff done like figure fits, presets and thumbnails.

    There could be a morph which lifted the skirt up into a circle.

    That it can do. There was half a mind to include several pre-done simulations for various spins and the like, because it's difficult to do without dForce deciding to snag on something.

     

    CircleSkirtPromo.jpg
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  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 110,826

    If you want things like a skirt pooled out around the wearer then you are going to need to tweak it, as you would in a physical photoshoot with assistants pulling the fabric around after model had assumed the pose. For example you might use a plane, scaled up from a centre point under the character, to pull the fabric out on all sides (but as Matt_Castle says, it is tricky not to have the skirt mesh get stuck to part of the plane, or whatever you use)

  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786
    edited July 13

    I have seen and done many Dforce blanket sims.

    I want the skirt to be like a circle blanket with a hole in it.

    Richard, I definitely understand what you are saying.

    I should have qualified my statement about a morph I could use BEFORE the sim.  The skirt would start in a circle at the waist, then flows down toward the ground as the animation timeline plays.

    This was was I was wanting several months ago.  I finally made an actual posed dress in MeshyAI.  Then I posed G9F upper body with the dress.  A LOT of work LOL.  Turned off the lower part of her body.

    image

    Here are some of my posts which shows this is something I have wanted for a long time.

    Solved! I am looking for skirt like the one in Graceful Blooming promos - Daz 3D Forums

    Can I turn off the morphs in a Dforce Clothing Item? - Daz 3D Forums

    I have many skirts with ruffles now and everyone I tried for my Alice In Wonderland scene blew up :(

    Post edited by Jan_Scrapper on
  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786
    edited July 13

    This artist has an amazing circle skirt:

    Faux Recursion: Update + Variations | Daz 3D

    Elile the Dancing Maid | Daz 3D

    It's amazing!!

    There is a free one here:  dforce big skirt circle for G8F  This one is amazing.  However, it is too long without ruffles.  I will certainly use it, however :)

    Here is a Poser dynamic skirt:  Snow White for kids4 3D Figure Assets Tipol  I posted a picture below of how it looks when first loaded.  I have a project going on in DS, so pease ignore the water and things in my pic :)

    I used it here:  Trick or Treat by jan_scrapper

    It was, also, used here:  Sleepy Kitties by danidh   I loved her art and she has not posted since 2021 :(

    Matt Castle, if you ever release your very cute skirt, I hope I can get a copy :)  It's so wonderful!!

    Snow white dress.JPG
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    Post edited by Jan_Scrapper on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 41,206

    I have dforced a torus edited into a circle with a hole, with the geometry editor and flattened on the Y axis before today

  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    I have dforced a torus edited into a circle with a hole, with the geometry editor and flattened on the Y axis before today

     That is so interesting.  I am going to try that!!

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 9,944
    edited July 13

    I know nothing about Meshy but I checked the skirt you attached. Actually vertices / faces count is not an issue but the topology is. Such triangle topo is not really good for dForce but the biggest problem is that the mesh density on the edge of skirt / ruffle is too high. That'll bring explosion no matter how you tweak the settings on dForce dynamic surfaces. You have to need a retopology or remesh on the skirt, like what I showed in screenshot 1, on the right. I remeshed in Blender.

    Another problem is the gemetry of the skirt is not fully welded, on the lower ruffle. Not sure if you can make it welded in Meshy but if it's not welded, the lower ruffle will be drapping separately. (screenshot 2)  But welding geometry is not a simple task, you even have to unwrap UV again... etc. There're some tricks to handle such a case in DS to avoid the separation from the unwelded part, but the result usually will not be good, especially on a dForce item.

    Besides, if you want to use the skirt on G9, you better tailor-make the skirt on a G9 base mesh so as to make the rigging process easier ~~ 

    Edit: An alternative: making such a skirt in Marvelous Designer will be much easier and better ~~ Or, you can go to arstation, there're lots of similar skirts made with Marvelous Designer especially on G8F or G9.

     

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    SNAG-2026-7-13 0001.png
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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786

    crosswind said:

    I know nothing about Meshy but I checked the skirt you attached. Actually vertices / faces count is not an issue but the topology is. Such triangle topo is not really good for dForce but the biggest problem is that the mesh density on the edge of skirt / ruffle is too high. That'll bring explosion no matter how you tweak the settings on dForce dynamic surfaces. You have to need a retopology or remesh on the skirt, like what I showed in screenshot 1, on the right.

    Another problem is the gemetry of the skirt is not fully welded, on the lower ruffle. Not sure if you can make it welded in Meshy but if it's not welded, the lower ruffle will be drapping separately. (screenshot 2) But welding geometry is not a simple task, you even have to unwrap UV again... etc.

     

     
    Thank you so much for checking the skirt.  I saw that the second ruffle was not attached.  I think I can remove that in Blender or Carrara.  The ONLY things I know how to do is remove geometry, decimate in Blender and create Material Zones in Blender.  I wish I understood how to do create a texture map.  I hope to learn:  UV Mapping and UV Unwrapping.  

    2 days ago, I could not apply Material Zones in Blender, but today, I can.

    So, there is hope for me.

    "You have to need a retopology or remesh on the skirt, like what I showed in screenshot 1, on the right."   I will have to look that up and learn what you did.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 9,944
    edited July 13

    Jan_Scrapper said:

    crosswind said:

    I know nothing about Meshy but I checked the skirt you attached. Actually vertices / faces count is not an issue but the topology is. Such triangle topo is not really good for dForce but the biggest problem is that the mesh density on the edge of skirt / ruffle is too high. That'll bring explosion no matter how you tweak the settings on dForce dynamic surfaces. You have to need a retopology or remesh on the skirt, like what I showed in screenshot 1, on the right.

    Another problem is the gemetry of the skirt is not fully welded, on the lower ruffle. Not sure if you can make it welded in Meshy but if it's not welded, the lower ruffle will be drapping separately. (screenshot 2) But welding geometry is not a simple task, you even have to unwrap UV again... etc.

     

     
    Thank you so much for checking the skirt.  I saw that the second ruffle was not attached.  I think I can remove that in Blender or Carrara.  The ONLY things I know how to do is remove geometry, decimate in Blender and create Material Zones in Blender.  I wish I understood how to do create a texture map.  I hope to learn:  UV Mapping and UV Unwrapping.  

    2 days ago, I could not apply Material Zones in Blender, but today, I can.

    So, there is hope for me.

    "You have to need a retopology or remesh on the skirt, like what I showed in screenshot 1, on the right."   I will have to look that up and learn what you did.

    Ah, that's great if you've been learning Blender ! Though I use a Quad Remesh add-on to retop the skirt but you can firstly try the Remesh modifier in Blender or search other good remesh add-on on superhive. As for UV mapping / unwrapping, there're lots of tutorials on youtube.

    Well, for this case, maybe you can firstly try: cut out the lower ruffle from the skirt, re-import it  then use multiple Rigid Follow Nodes on the lower ruffle so as to "attach" it to the upper skirt / ruffle, then finetune the dynamic surface settings on it, especially cranking up Buckling Stiffness. Then when drapping, at least the lower ruffle can preserve its position to some extent ~~

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786
    edited July 13

    I looked up Quad Remesh add-on.  I can purchase it for $59, I believe.

    I will have to wait to spend that much.  I can download a trial version, which I might do tomorrow.

    Thank you for telling me about this!!  

    I watched a short You-Tube video on it.  I would imagine it will take me awhile to learn.

    The mesh is a mess from Meshy AI or Tripo AI.  I would love to correct all of the things I have made.

    Post edited by Jan_Scrapper on
  • ElorElor Posts: 3,940

    I don't know how it compares against Quad Remesh, but this addon is free and seems to be able to take care of triangles:

    https://github.com/Rulesobeyer/Optimized-Tris-to-Quads-Converter

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 41,206

    I didn't know how to download just your dress, and somehow have ended up starting downloading everything devil

    was going to look what I could do in Zbrush to remesh, UV map and Zproject the texture 

    will try when it finishes yes

  • felisfelis Posts: 6,407
    edited July 13

    I tried to make a quick skirt in similar style.

    The frills at the end got fully erased by the simulation, but I dedicated simulation settings might have improved it..

    But overall I felt that it gives way to much cloths in the final pose and simulated.

    I think it would be better to be made in a 45 degree angel instead.

    G8F_Skirt_05_01.png
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    Post edited by felis on
  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786

    Elor said:

    I don't know how it compares against Quad Remesh, but this addon is free and seems to be able to take care of triangles:

    https://github.com/Rulesobeyer/Optimized-Tris-to-Quads-Converter

    Quad Remesh says "...this add-on requires the PuLP optimization library."  Then, Pulp says to install from "Rust."

    My little Pomeranians are making me crazy with a thunderstorm :(  I will have to consentrate to work on this.

    I like free!!!

  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    I didn't know how to download just your dress, and somehow have ended up starting downloading everything devil

    was going to look what I could do in Zbrush to remesh, UV map and Zproject the texture 

    will try when it finishes yes

    Do you realize how smart you are????  If I could do the things you are talking about, I never would have spent the kind of money I have on things :(  I would NEVER tell my husband how much I have spent in the last 21 years...NEVER!!!

    I am so sorry I didn't just post the one folder with the clothes in it.

    You might find some fun stuff, however.

    I need to reduce the texture files.  Can I do that?  They are much too large in mgs.

    Thank you so much for doing this!!! 

  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786

    felis said:

    I tried to make a quick skirt in similar style.

    The frills at the end got fully erased by the simulation, but I dedicated simulation settings might have improved it..

    But overall I felt that it gives way to much cloths in the final pose and simulated.

    I think it would be better to be made in a 45 degree angel instead.

    This is beautiful!!  You just very non-chalantly say that you made a skirt.  The talent you are showing is incredible.  This is a cute skirt!!!

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 41,206

    LOL, don't thank me yet, looking at it, its a tad more complicated than I thought, not being able to use DAZ Studio because I am rendering isn't helping

  • ElorElor Posts: 3,940
    edited July 13

    Jan_Scrapper said:

    Quad Remesh says "...this add-on requires the PuLP optimization library."  Then, Pulp says to install from "Rust."

    My little Pomeranians are making me crazy with a thunderstorm :(  I will have to consentrate to work on this.

    I like free!!!

    Off the top of my head, once you have installed Optimized-Tris-to-Quads-Converter, there should be a button to install Pulp directly from within Blender if you go to the Preferences panel, then Add-on and search for Quad.

    Post edited by Elor on
  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    LOL, don't thank me yet, looking at it, its a tad more complicated than I thought, not being able to use DAZ Studio because I am rendering isn't helping

     I am working on a project, as well.  Please only do this if it interests you and only when you are not working on something else.

    None of you guys have said that you see my point about starting a skirt at the waist in full circle to allow for pretty draping on the ground.  If I am not right, please tell me.

    I did it here in my work:

    imageThis was in Poser and the outfit is .Victoria 4 - Summer Fashion | Daz 3D.  This dress did really well and did NOT start around the waist.

    All I know is, several dresses I have with ruffles blew up when I used them a few months ago.

    dForce SU Maid Uniform for Genesis 9, 8.1, and 8 Female | Daz 3D

    dForce Princess Petra's Maid Outfit for Genesis 9 | Daz 3D

    dForce KuJ Cute Maid Cafe Outfit for Genesis 9 | Daz 3D

    I am VERY obsessed with these clothes because my mom made them for me when I was little.

     

  • ElorElor Posts: 3,940
    edited July 13

    Jan_Scrapper said:

    dForce KuJ Cute Maid Cafe Outfit for Genesis 9 | Daz 3D

    I tried, and while I didn't get an explosion, it doesn't seem possible to get the dress to drape over the legs of the characters if they are on their knees or sitting:

    Initially, I thought it could be related to the morph (I initially used Hanako 9, because it's among the supported shape), but going back to Genesis 9 Base didn't solve the problem. Then, maybe it was because the pose applied a Y translation on the hip bone but even after moving it to the root bone, the part that is up still went up surprise I have no idea why that part is going up.

    kuj_dress.jpg
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    Post edited by Elor on
  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786

    Elor said:

    Jan_Scrapper said:

    Quad Remesh says "...this add-on requires the PuLP optimization library."  Then, Pulp says to install from "Rust."

    My little Pomeranians are making me crazy with a thunderstorm :(  I will have to consentrate to work on this.

    I like free!!!

    Off the top of my head, once you have installed Optimized-Tris-to-Quads-Converter, there should be a button to install Pulp directly from within Blender if you go to the Preferences panel, then Add-on and search for Quad.

    Ok, installing now!!  This will be fantastic if I can learn it :)  Thank you so much!! 

  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786

    Elor said:

    Jan_Scrapper said:

    dForce KuJ Cute Maid Cafe Outfit for Genesis 9 | Daz 3D

    I tried, and while I didn't get an explosion, it doesn't seem possible to get the dress to drape over the legs of the characters if they are on their knees or sitting:

    Initially, I thought it could be related to the morph (I initially used Hanako 9, because it's among the supported shape), but going back to Genesis 9 Base didn't solve the problem. Then, maybe it was because the pose applied a Y translation on the hip bone but even after moving it to the root bone, the part that is up still went up surprise I have no idea why that part is going up.

    Thank you so much for doing that!!  I did this a couple of months ago, so perhaps this cute dress did not blow up on me either.  I love this dress so much!! 

  • Jan_ScrapperJan_Scrapper Posts: 786
    edited July 13

    Getting an error message with Optimized Tris to Quads Converter

     

    Error message.JPG
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    Post edited by Jan_Scrapper on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,680

    Elor said:

    Jan_Scrapper said:

    dForce KuJ Cute Maid Cafe Outfit for Genesis 9 | Daz 3D

    I tried, and while I didn't get an explosion, it doesn't seem possible to get the dress to drape over the legs of the characters if they are on their knees or sitting:

    Initially, I thought it could be related to the morph (I initially used Hanako 9, because it's among the supported shape), but going back to Genesis 9 Base didn't solve the problem. Then, maybe it was because the pose applied a Y translation on the hip bone but even after moving it to the root bone, the part that is up still went up surprise I have no idea why that part is going up.

    I suspect this is down to the simulation settings on the dress. Ensure that for the skirt part the dynamic strength is 1.0, and the collision offset is not too high (knock it down to 0.05 if you can) Lower values are more likely to settle properly, but can cause layers to poke through each other, so try different values for the best result,

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