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Sounds eminently sensible.
Regards,
Richard
Okay, I have been very vocal in my comments about some of the BDSM style outfits, but that seems to be ignored by this current change. A recent release, https://www.daz3d.com/x-fashion-trimline-harness-set-for-genesis-9-and-8-female offered a full frontal view of a questional item that was not something that is not appropriate for teens and below, nor office safe.
But as far as nudity, what is with 'Mature Content' hiding when a product is wearing clothing over their body? I offer https://www.daz3d.com/cb-rose-hd-for-genesis-9 as the most recent item I have seen. The character is wearing a two-piece item. Might be underwear or a bathingsuit, but it covers her up as if she is on the beach.
Is AI being used to make decisions on what is Mature Content? If so, it needs its parameters tweaked.
Regarding Utah and Mormons and prudery. I was stationed in Utah in 1977 to 1978 and the term 'Jack Mormon' covered a lot of behavior. Jack is from Jack Daniels. This was explained to me from some of my airmen who were raised as Mormons and no longer followed their family's faith. Maybe it has changed. Maybe.
That's exactly how the "infamous" Renderotica operates, as they have a "clean" store called CGBytes that runs in parallel with 'rotica. However, given some of the absurd lengths that DAZ has gone to over the years to try to distance themselves from the reality that their entire business model is based upon selling cg replicas of naked human bodies (shipping V4 with a painted on purple bikini, packing the "anatomy" as seperate pieces only available in the most expensive bundles, banning even partial nudity from the galleries, and now this latest regression in the recently relaxed store nudity policy), I suspect that that's highly unlikely to happen.
sooooo new products and new look for adult promos don't know if this is the new standard or just how Magic Brush submitted them. Before the no nudity and even during it being allowed revealing clothing was shown on a clay image of the figure like the promos of the HD addons for the Daz core figures. Well on the new product for some clothing with some revealing undress options (probably not all shown) theses options are shown on no visible model or the invisible woman https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-mb-fitted-sexy-set-genesis-9-feminine
Well, I would say new policy is in full effect. Today we have a lot of new characters releases by PAs. Most of them had "technical nudes" (if that is the word) with their recent products. In todays products however these are missing. Don't like that revert because I found these "technical nudes" helpful to see if I wanted a certain character/texture or not. Well it is as it is.
As someone who checks for tan lines, hair stubbles, scars, freckles, and other blemishes, I hope Daz brings back the nude renders.
You left out tattoos, pubic hair baked into the base skin textures, and mis-aligned nipples, all of which have shown up in DAZ products over the years.
I think the problem for those grumping a bit is that DAZ's position does change over time. And there is no notice or even public statement so people can understand what's been done, exactly when it was done and why it was done. We're reasonable people here & can understand reasoned arguement. Just to change it without notice feels arbitary and we have to guess as to what the new rules are in a kafka-esque way & whether they'll cause a problem for each of us. That's un-necessary, the forum, press releases or blog can be used for announcements of this sort.
Regards,
Richard
The thing that really gets to me is that those promotional images cost the PAs money, either in time invested that could have been used creating other product, or in money paid to an outside artist to create them. Yet, we're seeing reports here of artists having their new images pulled without warning. Is DAZ going to give those artists some kind of credit to cover that or...?
Please do bear in mind that Daz is going to make deciusions like this based on many external factors, not just (or even simply not) their own taste and judgement.
I have no clue how many of you have minors at home . . . or work at for an employer who pays worker comp fees, but people who value their job, and would like to browse and buy flash sales at work can't, due to mature images.. When I worked for a fortune 500 company they tracked where we went on our PCs. They did block obvious porn sites, but not block every site with explicit images. But when they reviewed employees and managers browsing history (everything was recorded - we were red or green dots on a grid) people got fired. Walked out without warning. Good people who happened upon a site once too often that catered to explicit images, By have explicit images DAZ is putting a stranglehold on purchases that could occur on work PCs during lunch breaks. Back then nobody got fired for shopping Amazon during a lunch break.
There is a newish take it down act. It was made because a girl had a fake nude image of her posted (in her likeness) that was explicit. It addressing AI generated, user generated - or real images resembling mages of real people, when discovered, have 48 hours to prove the consent, or 48 hours to take it down, or . . . . This is an unfair risk to expect DAZ to take. If we make images that resemble a living person this could be very bad for both the user who made the rendered the image, be it via blender or wherever, and it would be very bad for the site that displayed/hosted it. If a promo art piece resembles someone alive and it is an explicit non-consensual image, this could be a very bad thing for DAZ and could also adversely affect thousands of people who utilize DAZ. I for one want to see DAZ thrive.
If you do personal stuff on a work computer, you deserve whatever bad things happen from doing that.
The take down act is about deep fakes and revenge porn, a good bit beyond the scope of what we find here on Daz.
what suprises me is that many of you look at this site or others while at work. One place I worked for fired one worker because they were looking at houses for sale on a work computer this was before people started using mobile phones for looking online. Another time and I don't know how they did this but they had a printout of what another worker had looked at on their mobile phone which was Deviant Art a name they'd have a problem with alone, but the stuff they were looking at was fan art of Sonic The Hedgehog. They even wanted to put something on my computer saying they could fix my computer if needed. They very very extremist beliefs judgemental people the talks I got over what I'm into/have and my mother's stuff she used to work for them too and they often visited did not like the Budas and other stuff lectured over it so this site well would not go down well
We are all being watched and analyzed. A little OT but a little not is this: All vehicles since 2014 (earlier had bits and pieces) have little 'black boxes' aka Event Data Recorders. They can record when you open and close doors, speed, steering, weight of people sitting in seats, voice commands and where you actually drove. It was intended for insurance investigations but police and attorneys use it. Two years after a crime it was used to convict a murderer. This EDR data belongs to the registered vehicle owner, but can be accessed by certain third-parties like EMR, police without consent otherwise by court order. For example, since 2014 California has been utilizing such and studying road usage charges. Since a ton of people went to green electric vehicles, California lost a bunch of gas tax money which is mainly used for road repair and maintenance. Lori Wilson recently authored a bill (AB 1421) which was passed which orders California to design a mileage tax system, study it, and report back with a plan to implement it. So California is considering a mileage tax, pending the January 2027 report. Also if anyone has a dummy (non-human) in their passenger seat (for cheating FasTrak) I might be interested in buying it to throw face-down on my front lawn for April 1st
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I never browse, even for work related learrning material, at work! My various employers used hidden video cameras. I remember one guy that got fired & walked off for reading the newspaper in his cubicle all day. LOL, who does that?
This is a vicious circle, as the main reason electric vehicle usage has become so high in California (over 35% of all EVs in the U.S.) is that the state currently has the highest gas prices in the U.S., currently nearly $7 a gallon, even higher than than runner up Hawaii which has to import all their fuel by boat. Unfortunately, in the case of a mileage tax, the group that would be most affected would be the agriculture industry, which at over 100 billion annually accounts for over 12% of all produce grown in the U.S., and would cause yet another escalation of food costs across the entire country. I'm a native Californian myself and have no intention of moving back there as the cost of living there has gotten beyond stupid...
that was how it was at the place I worked at too with cameras as a cleaner I worked nights sometimes very late nights and often would be people hanging around the building one night there were several cars of people in the carpark wandering around looking in windows and acting suspicious I was pretty nervous as they were a lot of blind spots could get jumped, asked if possible to have a monitor so I could see if anyone was hanging around said no oh there were two cameras outside btw but didn't cover enough all main cameras were inside aimed at workers some hidden
same with phones, tvs gaming systems pretty much any smart object it was revealed could be used
back on subject noticed the EG Flight Attendent Uniform managed to sneak through with som undress reveal images with a clay/wooden female body which is good as can see what it offers and FG/Ironman showed some undress reveal options on some of their new clothing. Don't know how they'll promote any new lower anatomy morphs now though if we can't see them
I'm sincerely very confused by the new situaiton, because on the one hand, I fail to understand how anyone at work would even need to be concered about viewing the Daz store. Surely, since you specifically need to click on a censored image in order to uncensor it, the answer then is simply to not click it. On the other hand, I was looking at even Daz's own characters today, and notice they not only removed the nudity from their own characters, but also appear to have raised the bar of censorship to include characters that are not even nude!
Don't get me wrong. I still intend to buy scenes and stuff like that, but I won't be buying any character who's texture I cannot see prior to purchase. It's very important with characters to be able to see the whole texture so that you know what you're buying. There's characters I had planned to buy, but now, going back through them at a later date, I can no longer see the full texture, so will have to forget about them.
As Richard points out, we should never assume that these decisions are made because Daz specifically wants to do it. But at the same time, you have to wonder what is behind this move, and for the sake of vendor sales and good old-fashined common sense, I really hope they do something about it. To remove even technical, non-sexual nudity and start censoring characters that are not even nude, I just cannot get my head around why they would even do that. It does not make sense to me at all, unless perhaps some law suddenly changed where Daz are based, in which case I reckon Daz should sue those responsible on grounds of lost sales.
I for one am living proof that this move is costing you lost sales, and will continue to do so for as long as it's in place:
- What if a character has a tattoo that I can't see?
- What if a character has dark areola when I want light, or vice versa?
- What if a character has small areola when I want large, or vice versa?
- What if a character has some baked-on pubic hair, but I want fiber?
Those are just examples of common-sense reasons why at least technical nudity is essential when in the business of buying or selling 3D characters.
I can't argue with your perspective. I just like to know what I'm buying. When it comes to morphs on clothing, I like to see a visual representation rather than simply read a list of the morphs that sometimes lacks the ability to convey what, if anything will change when enabled. Of course, in the case of Daz products as opposed to PA products that largely becomes moot, as Daz - at least Daz Plus and likely anything that's strictly store branded isn't going to have any real morphability (is that a word? My spell check didn't flag it. :)) WYSIWYG.
If there are a lot of thumbnails on the page tagged as Mature Content then that is potentially going to be an issue in some workplaces, with management or co-workers or both, even if the user doesn't show the images.
1. The tattoos would have to be very small and placed in very specific areas to not be visible on the classical bikini promo renders PAs did before Daz allowed fully nudity and are doing again now that it's not allowed anymore.
2, 3, 4. Less practical than when PAs were allowed to show a A pose nudity, but there is always the 30 days refund policy if any of these cases are a deal breaker.
@Dareshiranu
I know what you mean, but I suppose as far as Daz are concerned, it could be that a nipple formation beneath some clothes (for example), might need to be treated in the same way a bare nipple would be treated.
@Richard
I hear you, although I would personally have remedied that situation by implementing a global setting in our accounts so that we can choose to "Show All Images" or "Supress NSFW Images".
The way they have it now is surely not well placed for a business like this. It only satisfies one group of people, and that should not be the case. It should satisfy both groups of people, and having such an option available in our account control panel would surely do that. While it's true that people have genuine reason to want to surpress technical nudity, it is also true that most of us have genuine reason to not want to do so.
Sure, the sort of system suggested would mean that every NSFW image uploaded to the store would need to be tagged with an NSFW checkbox. But since this is something that is only ever done once when a product is uploaded to the store, that shouldn't be a problem for any vendor to do. Another benefit of such a system is that actually, it would be even better than before, because before, we used to have to uncensor each time we visited a different product page. With a global setting though, you please everyone, while at the same time, neither group has to repeatedly uncensor anything ever again.
The only other thing that would be wise with such a system, is to ensure that when new users sign up, this option is presented to them directly, a page where you inform the user of the option to either show or supress NSFW images, and remind them that it can be changed at any time by going in to their account control panel.
Surely that would be better than what we have now. And the icing on the cake is that you would not be able to see anything NSFW accidentally. Because if a person at work decides to visit the Daz store, then the system by default would ensure that no NSFW content is shown. You would have to actually log in to your Daz account for your setting to take effect, so that in itself would ensure that no accidental NSFW content would ever be shown to someone taking a casual look at the Daz store while at work or anywhere else.
@Elor
I don't like requesting refunds on vendor products. You could easily go through lots of products before finding what you want. Surely the much better option is to be able to see what you're buying in the first place. And surely a system that caters to both groups of people is better than a system that caters to one.
I find that relying on product descriptions isn't satisfactory. For one thing, there isn't a standard for terminology. There are lots of examples of vague or meaningless descriptions, for example, "Shape A, Shape B, Shape C", "trims adjust", "x move (as well as y and z)". Each vendor has their own code that maybe repeat customers understand, but I won't purchase a product based on those types of descriptions, as going through multiple refunds is a huge disincentive to shopping. If images can't be used, then hopefully a more uniform description that eveyone understands could be used.
I also think that being able to see what we're buying is a legitimate request. Maybe people shouldn't use their employer's network for shopping at DAZ. I never did; I used my own data.
In my own opinion, which might not mean anything and also get me into trouble, I will be glad to see less of the what I consider sex clothes and their promos. I got into DAZ for the all the endless possibilites of what awesome renders can be made. Lately it seems there is only sex clothes on the main shop pages and I want more than just sex clothes for my renders. I hope I've explained this correctly. If not, mods feel free to delete. Thanks.
Agreed.
I agree that DAZ's focus on clothing that isn't practical for normal wear is a bit excessive and really makes me wonder what the dress code within the corporate offices may be like. (:)) However, generally I equate most of the skimpwear that is sold at DAZ to the products sold at Victoria's Secret... which, I should note, has stores in malls that are open to the general public, has no age or sex restriction for entering, and even has a "junior" product line, Pink, that specifically targets women in the 15 to 22 year age bracket. Similarly, in times gone by the women's undergarment sections of Sears and other department store's catalogs were considered racy by many, but were still shipped openly in the mail. The point I'm making is that, the public consensus in this country, as prudish and backward as it is when compared to most other modern countries in Europe and Asia, is that women wearing skimpy outfits may be sexy, but they aren't necessarily only about sex. There is a line and in most cases DAZ generally stays well within on the "safe" side of when it comes to public perception. On the other hand, there's no getting around the fact that the core of the DAZ model is the sale of naked human figures to dress up, and for DAZ to try to cover up the reality of their own product to suit the restricted tastes of EVERY group out there would result in a catalog filled with nothing but burkas...
Dress up is the key note here. It always feels like folks who make pinups are considered the target audience by the shop. (And I guess that's somewhat true since a lot of stuff is made catering to "simpler" use of Daz.)
usually whenever someone posts in the forum here about this subject either on characters or clothing and say with hatred and contempt about it I try to defend the product/s and creators and mention how I see many wearing revealing stuff open blouses, mini skirts extra including women of all ages young and old and I get abusive negative replies so it is nice to see a few here tha think like this stuff too