Tips & Tricks for Iray for newbies......

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  • SuperdogSuperdog Posts: 765
    edited December 1969

    I assume Iray won't work with AoA's atmospheric camera. Are there any ways to do godrays with Iray?

    Your Iray with AoA question got answered when you posted it in the Iray render thread, in case you missed that. :)

    They are shader based lights and will not work in Iray. You can still use them in 3Delight.

    You will have to postwork godrays as Iray isn't using a cloud/atmospheric system. :)

    Kat

    I use Octane Render and the way to create Godrays is to use a Godrays prop such as this:

    http://www.daz3d.com/simple-godrays

    and tun it into a light emitter. You can adjust the light intensity, colour and translucency. This should work in any unbiased renderer.

    I really need to clarify whether shader based lights sold by AoA and Marshian will actually work with iRay if these products use default DAZ shaders. Marshian seems to think they will. Is this correct?

  • nightwolf1982nightwolf1982 Posts: 1,037
    edited December 1969

    DzFire™ said:

    What video card and OS are you using?

    I have Windows 7 Home Premium with 4 GB of RAM and a 2GB Galaxy Geforce GT 520 Video Card.

  • SpitSpit Posts: 2,280
    edited December 1969

    I had the strangest crash of Studio 4.8.

    One session with a couple renders. Everything fine. Closed it to get something to eat. Remembered I wanted to snip that busy little corner with the menus so I opened it again and used the snip tool. Messed it up so called up the snip tool again but before I actually snipped, I had to handle a distraction.

    When I got back to the PC about twenty minutes later I clicked on the screen and Studio went unresponsive......

    Here's what the log said. :)

    WARNING: bool __cdecl QClipboard::event(class QEvent *): Cowardly refusing to send clipboard message to hung application...

    Note I hadn't done a thing in Studio, not one thing, I opened it and used the snip tool, then called up the snip tool again and left the scene. Sometime in the next twenty minutes Studio croaked. :lol:

  • SuperdogSuperdog Posts: 765
    edited December 1969

    DzFire™ said:
    applied rubber shaders to the tires keeping the texture maps. Same with the chrome, brushed aluminum. Solid glass for the windshield and glass thickness for the headlights. Gotta love Iray

    Juicy! We just need an 'add dust and dirt' option for outdoor scenes to get that truly gritty feel.

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,303
    edited March 2015

    Thank you so much to everyone sharing what they found so far.

    I cannot find the Blend settings to blend between Iray Interactive and Photoreal mode.

    Set the blend mode to Interactive, turn up your threshold, and you will be blending between Iray Interactive and Photoreal but your movement may not be as smooth as you would want, depending on your Video cards. The Blend settings are a reasonable place to start but are definitely designed to be adjusted to account for your specific cards.

    I tried in the Render Settings / Editor and Advanced subtabs.

    Does anyone know where those blend settings are adjusted?

    - - -

    k. found it. Seems there is a tab called "Draw Settings"


    It seems there you can adjust how the viewport preview is displayed.

    - - -

    Update / Edit:
    Added screenshot to show those settings I did find.
    Added second screenshot to show the Draw Settings.

    Draw_Settings.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 452K
    Render_settings_Photoreal_Interactive.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 575K
    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • DzFireDzFire Posts: 1,375
    edited March 2015

    DzFire™ said:

    What video card and OS are you using?

    I have Windows 7 Home Premium with 4 GB of RAM and a 2GB Galaxy Geforce GT 520 Video Card.

    Updated my older 550 last night with the new drivers dated (2-10-15) and my older machine is now rendering via GPU. Before the update, it also crashed.

    Post edited by DzFire on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 52,876
    edited December 1969

    Could someone please explain how you get an interior scene with one emitter light to not be completely black? Do you always have to lower the Exposure value down to 0 or lower from it's default of 13? If I do that, the light emitting object becomes completely white. I expected the Exposure Value to use a base of 0 and we would make small adjustments like with a camera (+1, -1, etc). Why is 13 the default?

    Every time I think I'm making progress, it turns out I'm not. Using the sun gives easy and realistic results, but otherwise lights in Iray seem to have almost no strength at all.

    Any preset values would be very helpful, I just want something accurate to use as reference and a starting point.

    Exposure Up, or lower Shutter Speed or raise Film ISO or even raise gamma. I think the docs have a live section on tone mapping

  • TjohnTjohn Posts: 10,002
    edited December 1969

    Could someone please explain how you get an interior scene with one emitter light to not be completely black? Do you always have to lower the Exposure value down to 0 or lower from it's default of 13? If I do that, the light emitting object becomes completely white. I expected the Exposure Value to use a base of 0 and we would make small adjustments like with a camera (+1, -1, etc). Why is 13 the default?

    Every time I think I'm making progress, it turns out I'm not. Using the sun gives easy and realistic results, but otherwise lights in Iray seem to have almost no strength at all.

    Any preset values would be very helpful, I just want something accurate to use as reference and a starting point.


    Select the emitter surface - crank the luminance up HIGH. I can't give exact numbers, just do small test renders and keep turning up the luminance until you see what you want. HTH.
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 13,315
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, most of my emitters have been like 500 million lum or more.

  • Midnight_storiesMidnight_stories Posts: 3,757
    edited December 1969

    scatha said:
    Right, so the render acceleration is ONLY going to work for people with an NVIDIA graphics card... which seems ridiculous to me.

    It doesn't sound ridiculous to me, Why would you write software to support your competitors.
    This is just business, if AMD want to support their cards then they would be doing to same.
    So why haven't they written software to support thier customer I turned my back on them years ago for that very reason.
    They still are great cards for gaming but there is no support for 3D graphic programs, I guess they focused on the games side.
    So it more AMD's fault if anything.
  • DzFireDzFire Posts: 1,375
    edited December 1969

    I rendered the Armory and had the emitters at 1 billion

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 2,177
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, most of my emitters have been like 500 million lum or more.

    LOL, that sounds a bit high. :)

    Richard: I've tried some of those things, but they just seem to blow out some lights while improving others. I wish there were presets for interiors that worked half as well as the Sun does (surely PAs are working on sets right now though). ;)

    tJohn: Thanks, but that only makes the emitter white for me, it doesn't really cast light around the room. I need to experiment more, but the inconsistency (which I'm sure is just something I'm overlooking) is getting quite frustrating.

  • XoechZXoechZ Posts: 1,100
    edited March 2015

    scatha said:
    Right, so the render acceleration is ONLY going to work for people with an NVIDIA graphics card... which seems ridiculous to me.

    It doesn't sound ridiculous to me, Why would you write software to support your competitors.
    This is just business, if AMD want to support their cards then they would be doing to same.
    So why haven't they written software to support thier customer I turned my back on them years ago for that very reason.
    They still are great cards for gaming but there is no support for 3D graphic programs, I guess they focused on the games side.
    So it more AMD's fault if anything.

    Well, I went exactly the opposite way. I have used Nvidia cards for many years. But I have never been completely satisfied with their performance and drivers. So I decided to buy an ATI card, not only for game performance, but also ATI cards are said to have much better OpenGL performance, which is very useful with DAZ Studios viewport. ATI also supports OpenCL for hybrid and/or GPU rendering in Luxrender.

    Long story short, now I have a ATI R9 270X, which completely rocks. The best card I have ever had. And now DAZ comes up with Iray... guess how I feel.... :-)

    Post edited by XoechZ on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 13,315
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the suggestion, Superdog.

    I'm not thrilled at returning to image based godrays, but the emitter idea is interesting.

  • PixolygonPixolygon Posts: 5,989
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, most of my emitters have been like 500 million lum or more.

    Geezus, there we go. No wonder my meek 200,000 wasn't doing squat. LOL

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the suggestion, Superdog.

    I'm not thrilled at returning to image based godrays, but the emitter idea is interesting.

    Nvidia is pretty aggressive with developing stuff like this, so I don't expect that volumetrics is too far off for Iray. Most other PBRs have them...yes, even Luxrender.

  • TjohnTjohn Posts: 10,002
    edited December 1969

    I've seen some renders by Totte and others that appear to be Dimension Theory HDRI sets, including shadow catchers, in Iray.
    Could someone give some step by step on how this is done? Please? :)

  • Midnight_storiesMidnight_stories Posts: 3,757
    edited December 1969

    XoechZ said:
    scatha said:
    Right, so the render acceleration is ONLY going to work for people with an NVIDIA graphics card... which seems ridiculous to me.

    It doesn't sound ridiculous to me, Why would you write software to support your competitors.
    This is just business, if AMD want to support their cards then they would be doing to same.
    So why haven't they written software to support thier customer I turned my back on them years ago for that very reason.
    They still are great cards for gaming but there is no support for 3D graphic programs, I guess they focused on the games side.
    So it more AMD's fault if anything.

    Well, I went exactly the opposite way. I have used Nvidia cards for many years. But I have never been completely satisfied with their performance and drivers. So I decided to buy an ATI card, not only for game performance, but also ATI cards are said to have much better OpenGL performance, which is very useful with DAZ Studios viewport. ATI also supports OpenCL for hybrid and/or GPU rendering in Luxrender.

    Long story short, now I have a ATI R9 270X, which completely rocks. The best card I have ever had. And now DAZ comes up with Iray... guess how I feel.... :-) You got no arguments from me that they are good cards. But if they don't have the software support what can you do. Cards don't cost much theses days. Still it's tough for you guys, get into AMD tell them you want better support !

  • XoechZXoechZ Posts: 1,100
    edited December 1969

    XoechZ said:
    scatha said:
    Right, so the render acceleration is ONLY going to work for people with an NVIDIA graphics card... which seems ridiculous to me.

    It doesn't sound ridiculous to me, Why would you write software to support your competitors.
    This is just business, if AMD want to support their cards then they would be doing to same.
    So why haven't they written software to support thier customer I turned my back on them years ago for that very reason.
    They still are great cards for gaming but there is no support for 3D graphic programs, I guess they focused on the games side.
    So it more AMD's fault if anything.

    Well, I went exactly the opposite way. I have used Nvidia cards for many years. But I have never been completely satisfied with their performance and drivers. So I decided to buy an ATI card, not only for game performance, but also ATI cards are said to have much better OpenGL performance, which is very useful with DAZ Studios viewport. ATI also supports OpenCL for hybrid and/or GPU rendering in Luxrender.

    Long story short, now I have a ATI R9 270X, which completely rocks. The best card I have ever had. And now DAZ comes up with Iray... guess how I feel.... :-) You got no arguments from me that they are good cards. But if they don't have the software support what can you do. Cards don't cost much theses days. Still it's tough for you guys, get into AMD tell them you want better support !

    Well, I hear you and I agree that "software sells hardware". I am just not very happy that DAZ is trying to force us into s special brand of hardware, just because they made a deal with that company. Professional software works with any kind of hardware. Everytheng else is just a kind of advertisment.

  • nightwolf1982nightwolf1982 Posts: 1,037
    edited December 1969

    DzFire™ said:
    DzFire™ said:

    What video card and OS are you using?

    I have Windows 7 Home Premium with 4 GB of RAM and a 2GB Galaxy Geforce GT 520 Video Card.

    Updated my older 550 last night with the new drivers dated (2-10-15) and my older machine is now rendering via GPU. Before the update, it also crashed.

    I'm running the latest drivers (347.52, dated 2-10-15), and it still crashes. My last attempt was set up with the following:

    V6
    String Bikini
    Fashion Hair
    Indoor Pool (Imaginary House)
    Lounger x 3 (Imaginary House)
    Null item for sun orientation
    Camera

    The only render settings I changed were these:

    Render Dimensions: 600 x 900
    Max Samples set to 30
    SS Sun node set to null item
    Draw Dome off
    Draw Ground off

    I was able to render V6 with the String Bikini and Fashion Hair, up to 50 iterations, without crashing, but no environment or background.

  • CrescentCrescent Posts: 192
    edited March 2015

    Emitters - instead of putting the Luminance up to crazy numbers, why not change the units used?

    Here's two renders with the sphere as an emitter. One has the Luminance set to 50000 using the default unit (cd/m^2). The other uses Luminance set to 50, but with the Units set to kcd/m^2.

    Emitter-Settings.png
    336 x 712 - 44K
    Emitter-LuminanceUnit2-50cd.png
    400 x 370 - 91K
    Emitter-LuminanceUnit1-50000cd.png
    400 x 400 - 97K
    Post edited by Crescent on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 3,803
    edited December 1969

    XoechZ said:
    XoechZ said:
    scatha said:
    Right, so the render acceleration is ONLY going to work for people with an NVIDIA graphics card... which seems ridiculous to me.

    It doesn't sound ridiculous to me, Why would you write software to support your competitors.
    This is just business, if AMD want to support their cards then they would be doing to same.
    So why haven't they written software to support thier customer I turned my back on them years ago for that very reason.
    They still are great cards for gaming but there is no support for 3D graphic programs, I guess they focused on the games side.
    So it more AMD's fault if anything.

    Well, I went exactly the opposite way. I have used Nvidia cards for many years. But I have never been completely satisfied with their performance and drivers. So I decided to buy an ATI card, not only for game performance, but also ATI cards are said to have much better OpenGL performance, which is very useful with DAZ Studios viewport. ATI also supports OpenCL for hybrid and/or GPU rendering in Luxrender.

    Long story short, now I have a ATI R9 270X, which completely rocks. The best card I have ever had. And now DAZ comes up with Iray... guess how I feel.... :-)

    You got no arguments from me that they are good cards. But if they don't have the software support what can you do. Cards don't cost much theses days. Still it's tough for you guys, get into AMD tell them you want better support !

    Well, I hear you and I agree that "software sells hardware". I am just not very happy that DAZ is trying to force us into s special brand of hardware, just because they made a deal with that company. Professional software works with any kind of hardware. Everytheng else is just a kind of advertisment.

    Professional software that you have to pay for, should work with any kind of hardware. However when that software is free, and written by the manufacturers of one type of hardware, then clearly they are not going to support their rivals equipment, since it is only through the sale of more of their hardware will they recoup the not inconsiderable costs of creating an unbiased renderer.

  • IppotamusIppotamus Posts: 1,468
    edited December 1969

    tjohn said:
    I've seen some renders by Totte and others that appear to be Dimension Theory HDRI sets, including shadow catchers, in Iray.
    Could someone give some step by step on how this is done? Please? :)

    I would also be very interested in this and other simple, walk through lighting tips. :)

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 2,177
    edited March 2015

    From what I can find online (and it's very confusing) a typical candle either gives off a luminance value of 1 or 12.6. As I make fantasy images...does anyone have any suggestions as to how to keep things from being absolutely pitch black once the sun goes down? Realism is all well and good, but I could put fifty candles at 12.6 in a tavern and the patrons wouldn't be able to see the food in front of their faces.

    I also set the Exposure value to 6, which is apparently within the range of indoor lighting. Not sure what else to try now.

    edit: setting Exposure to 0 and the lights to 12.6 gives a little more of what I'd expect from candle light - still very dark, but it's not totally black.

    Post edited by SnowSultan on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 13,315
    edited December 1969

    I personally would ignore that and just up Luminance until it looks like you think it should. You can justify this, to some extent, by assuming the scene overall is 'adjusted' to balance the available light levels.

    I've been playing with candle and fire-lit Iray scenes, and it seems to work well with that approach.

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 2,177
    edited March 2015

    Well we're really not supposed to ignore that sort of thing, we have to think in real-world terms and values when using this sort of renderer. Could you tell me what some of the values you've used and been satisfied with though?

    edit: And now my renders are stopping after 32 itinerations, saying it's finished. I'm almost done messing with this thing for the time being. :P

    Post edited by SnowSultan on
  • XoechZXoechZ Posts: 1,100
    edited December 1969

    Havos said:
    XoechZ said:
    XoechZ said:
    scatha said:
    Right, so the render acceleration is ONLY going to work for people with an NVIDIA graphics card... which seems ridiculous to me.

    It doesn't sound ridiculous to me, Why would you write software to support your competitors.
    This is just business, if AMD want to support their cards then they would be doing to same.
    So why haven't they written software to support thier customer I turned my back on them years ago for that very reason.
    They still are great cards for gaming but there is no support for 3D graphic programs, I guess they focused on the games side.
    So it more AMD's fault if anything.

    Well, I went exactly the opposite way. I have used Nvidia cards for many years. But I have never been completely satisfied with their performance and drivers. So I decided to buy an ATI card, not only for game performance, but also ATI cards are said to have much better OpenGL performance, which is very useful with DAZ Studios viewport. ATI also supports OpenCL for hybrid and/or GPU rendering in Luxrender.

    Long story short, now I have a ATI R9 270X, which completely rocks. The best card I have ever had. And now DAZ comes up with Iray... guess how I feel.... :-)

    You got no arguments from me that they are good cards. But if they don't have the software support what can you do. Cards don't cost much theses days. Still it's tough for you guys, get into AMD tell them you want better support !

    Well, I hear you and I agree that "software sells hardware". I am just not very happy that DAZ is trying to force us into s special brand of hardware, just because they made a deal with that company. Professional software works with any kind of hardware. Everytheng else is just a kind of advertisment.

    Professional software that you have to pay for, should work with any kind of hardware. However when that software is free, and written by the manufacturers of one type of hardware, then clearly they are not going to support their rivals equipment, since it is only through the sale of more of their hardware will they recoup the not inconsiderable costs of creating an unbiased renderer.

    3Delight is a professional render engine and far far away from being free, but DAZ made it free to use for all Studio users, which is really great. Iray is not much more than a marketing trick. It works for a small amount of users who have the hardware and should enforce all the others to buy it. Of course you dont have to, because of the CPU only option, but this is another trick by Nvidia. They show you how it works but make you want to buy a strong Nvidia card to get faster results. Iray CPU rendering is really slow and if you already have a "bridge" to Luxrender, there is no need for another unbiased render engine. The results and speeds of Iray CPU and Luxrender are not much different.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 13,315
    edited December 1969

    I figure if it works, it works. ;)

    Generally for emitters I've had to up Luminance to about 5 billion to properly light scenes. So maybe 500million lumen candles, around ten of them, should light a scene?

    I mean, if you are playing with camera settings to essentially amp light levels, it's pretty much the same whichever you go about it.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 13,315
    edited December 1969

    XoechZ said:
    3Delight is a professional render engine and far far away from being free, but DAZ made it free to use for all Studio users, which is really great. Iray is not much more than a marketing trick. It works for a small amount of users who have the hardware and should enforce all the others to buy it. Of course you dont have to, because of the CPU only option, but this is another trick by Nvidia. They show you how it works but make you want to buy a strong Nvidia card to get faster results. Iray CPU rendering is really slow and if you already have a "bridge" to Luxrender, there is no need for another unbiased render engine. The results and speeds of Iray CPU and Luxrender are not much different.

    I don't know, when I tried to use Reality with Luxrender, I found I had to scrap almost every shader and start over. Iray support with 4.8, on the other hand, is more familiar. And I've had a lot more luck just shrugging and not messing with shaders at all than I ever did with Reality/Luxrender.

    Iray CPU doesn't seem that bad to me, though admittedly I have pretty meh gear.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 30,426
    edited March 2015

    XoechZ said:
    3Delight is a professional render engine and far far away from being free, but DAZ made it free to use for all Studio users, which is really great. Iray is not much more than a marketing trick. It works for a small amount of users who have the hardware and should enforce all the others to buy it. Of course you dont have to, because of the CPU only option, but this is another trick by Nvidia. They show you how it works but make you want to buy a strong Nvidia card to get faster results. Iray CPU rendering is really slow and if you already have a "bridge" to Luxrender, there is no need for another unbiased render engine. The results and speeds of Iray CPU and Luxrender are not much different.

    ...I've been running tests with Iray in CPU mode on a fairly complex scene,(3 figures - 2 with SSS, as well as a "healthy" amount of reflectivity and transparency), and am seeing the render process completing in just under two hours (1,200 x 900 resolution). Even after a 9 - 10 hour "overnight" session in Lux (rendering the same scene at the same resolution), there is still a fair degree of noise that needs to be cleaned up to consider the job "completed".

    My system is about 3 years old with an Nvidia Fermi GPU (1 GB dedicated GDDR5 VRAM), I7 930 2.8 Ghz,and 12 GB of DDR3 in tri channel mode so it is far from the "rendering monsters" many have today. Everything in it is now "legacy tech".

    Given the high level of quality, 2 - 3 hours is pretty bleedin' good compared with upwards of 1 - 2 days (or more) like I hear about with Lux. I remember when rendering with old LDP in 3DL used to take up to 4 hours to complete (more if you used pwSurface to get better skin quality).

    This isn't to say there are not issues with the Iray implementation, considering this is a beta and all. Actually came across an interesting one last night which I will post about in a bit once a test render is finished.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
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