DAZ 3D Human Figures - A History

124

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  • BlackFeather1973BlackFeather1973 Posts: 739
    edited December 1969

    Timmoth said:

    Also, is there a way I can load a model into Daz and see it's poly count displayed somewhere?
    That way I could answer my own question...

    The Scene Info pane (Windows -> Panes (tabs) -> Scene Info) lists the polycount for the selected item and for the entire scene, both base count and subdivived.
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,405
    edited December 2014

    Timmoth said:
    Sometime around the time V4 came out, there was a polygon comparison. That is, how many polygons the various figures had as a comparison of how much detail the characters (1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Generation) had. Lately I was told that Genesis 1 has a lower polygon count than 3rd Generation and that was why character textures weren't exact on converting character textures from the original to the Genesis Legacy figures.

    Anyone know where to find the polygon count comparison from 1st Gen to Genesis 2 figures?

    Is there a texture converter to convert favorite character textures between 3rd generation, 4th generation and Genesis 2 figures?

    Thanks


    I would also like to know this info, please.
    What are the poly counts for Michael/Victoria 1, 2, 3, 4, G1, 2,etc?
    I think it would be good complimentary information to the original posts of this thread which drew me here.

    Also, is there a way I can load a model into Daz and see it's poly count displayed somewhere?
    That way I could answer my own question...
    and to add to BlackFeather1973's answer. The "Where the polygon density is", is just as important as the total polygons. it's the distortion of the maps from one generation to the next, caused by the "Where the polygon density is", that may be more critical for conversion as well, going that many generations back and with comparisons between genders.
    (EDIT)
    V4 Skins Batch Converter to Genesis 2 Female(s)
    I don't know IF there is a M4 variant, nor anything beyond that generation. Been mostly sticking to G2F/G2M.

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,772
    edited December 1969


    (EDIT)
    V4 Skins Batch Converter to Genesis 2 Female(s)
    I don't know IF there is a M4 variant, nor anything beyond that generation. Been mostly sticking to G2F/G2M.

    There is, both were released at the same time.
  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,307
    edited December 1969

    Some more updates:

    - Added Brodie and Belle
    - Added Minotaur
    - Added Belle 6 Morph Resource Kit to the Morph Matrix
    - Added MASSIVE to the Morph Matrix

    Doing some thinking about the future of the Morph Matrix...feel like there are a lot of great morph sets that aren't included, but I don't want the list to get too long, either...if anyone has any ideas, shoot me a PM. :)

  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,307
    edited December 1969

    Updates:
    - Added Reptilian
    - Added Keiko
    - Some changes to the Morph Matrix

  • zombiewhackerzombiewhacker Posts: 457
    edited December 1969

    Ballpark estimate, what are the relative polygon counts for various generations of DAZ 3D?

    I read somewhere else that G2 figures are comprised of half the polygons of V4/M4.

  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,307
    edited February 2015

    Quoting Vata Raven who posted poly counts in another thread...

    Can I lower the poly count of Daz's models without making them look odd?

    The base model of Genesis is 18-19k, Genesis 2 is in the 21-22k area...and I"m not even goign to try with V4 & M4 they're in the 66-67k ploy count area (way too high of a poly count)

    While Genesis & Genesis 2 has a lower poly count then the Gen4 models, I'm just wondering if anyone lowered the count without making the models looking odd


    Responses in the same thread have some more details about this.
    Post edited by Scott Livingston on
  • zombiewhackerzombiewhacker Posts: 457
    edited December 1969

    Perfect! Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again.

  • Darius 6 and Monique 6 are left out

  • pwiecekpwiecek Posts: 1,383
    edited February 21

    Occasionally, a formerly stand alone figure has been absorbed into the Genesis fold. Anime Doll, Mavka and Troll are in this category.

    Post edited by pwiecek on
  • Darius 6 and Monique 6 are left out

    Thanks--yes, I have some catching up to do! 

  • I haven't seen any mention of the Genesis 3 line (sorry if I missed it).  I know that no poser support is offered through DAZ to use Genesis 3 in poser (though I've seen such a product on Rendo), but are they otherwise incompatible with earlier versions of anything?  Can you use poses for Genesis 3 (V7, M7 or the other products in the series) with Genesis 2 or Genesis 1 (and their V5/M5, V6/M6 and other 5 and 6 product lines)?  I thought I'd seen other product converters to allow Genesis 3 to use Genesis 2 products (maybe earlier).  I just want to know if I'll get any back compatible use out of Genesis 3/V7/M7 products.

    Thanks

  • Thank you for the awesome post. This Daz base / character hierarchy and history is somewhat confusing.

    It would be great if someone could update this with the latest info about Genesis 3 and M7 / V7. Is it just a straight forward update of G3 or are there any substantial or even breaking changes?

  • duane_moodyduane_moody Posts: 124

    I know this is a necrobump, but there are a few inaccuracies in need of correction here. 

    Generation 3 - The Unimesh

    For the next generation of their humanoid figures, DAZ introduced a technology they called the "Unimesh." Rather than building each figure on a distinct mesh of polygons, they started with a single, androgynous mesh and crafted all their people from it. The advantages of the unimesh included increased compatibility (particularly with regards to textures and morphs)

    Textures yes, morphs no. When M3 was released later on he had the same overall poly count and UV map as V3, but the body parts were subdivided differently with differing poly counts, which breaks morph target compatibility (e.g., V3's head has fewer polys than M3's). An actual Unimesh has to have matching poly counts and subdivisions. Also I might be remembering wrong but I don't remember DAZ marketing that term until Generation 4.

    Another popular figure known as The Girl dates from this era as well; she is not based on the Unimesh, but she is compatible with textures made for Victoria 3.

    Also not true. The default Girl figure DAZ purchased from Kim Goossens had her own UV mapping (possibly inherited from Goossens), and every character I saw developed for that figure had textures based on this mapping. Later on, DAZ released a product update that added a separate, V3 UV-remapped version (!the Girl_V3UV). 

    The 4th Generation Figures

    For the fourth generation, DAZ 3D opted for separate meshes for male, female, and child characters.

    This is misleading; DAZ didn't opt to do anything here. They couldn't sell M4/V4/K4 separately as base figures without each having their own meshes. It wasn't anything unusual, either; throughout DAZ's history Genesis 1 has been the only androgynous figure where male and female were technically characters (if someone more versed in DS can correct me here and indicate that the rigging changes, please do so). As of this writing, Genesis 8 Male still hasn't come out so if it changes this model apologies in advance.

  • ItsCeoItsCeo Posts: 456

    I am new and this Genesis X and character X has been very confusing.  I have bookmarked this post.  Thank you!

  • Thanks very much for the hard work that has gone into this discussion.

    I'm working on a simpler list that focuses on just the release dates of major figures (I'm working on an article that focuses on getting more life out of older figures). That discussion is over here:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2736381#Comment_2736381

     

  • Thank you for this list and information Scott Livingston.

    Cheers

    MAX

     

     

  • CheetahkaCheetahka Posts: 139
    Dear Daz family, I'm new to the daz 3D community and I got several Pro packs when they were on special which includes animals/actors/anthropomorphic creatures like the lizard man, centaur and Minotaur along with Michael 4 Victoria 4 (their variance) and freak 4. I'm overwhelmed with trying to fit clothing and understanding the mechanics of all these conversions, UV mapping, converting,batching, skins,morphs and what not. Also a lot of the clothing I get doesn't seem to fit right on other characters and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. Perhaps I'm just not understanding the process. I was wondering if there was a flow chart available, for example, an M4 character might have an arrow pointing to what generation it is, followed by what converters/uv maps/batching/etc (with links to purchasable content) depending on your goal. The flowchart would eventually lead to the current Genesis, which I assume is the goal since it'll have more options available and flexibility. Would Following the flowchart in reverse allow you to change from a Genesis model back to the previous one? Would there be a reason to do so? If not a flow chart, how about a spreadsheet or a web page with drop-down menus that you select a model name or version and then it would list all that was said above. Is there anything of that nature available? A visual aid would be a big help here. Thank you for your time and any advice would be appreciated.
  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,801
    Dear Daz family, I'm new to the daz 3D community and I got several Pro packs when they were on special which includes animals/actors/anthropomorphic creatures like the lizard man, centaur and Minotaur along with Michael 4 Victoria 4 (their variance) and freak 4. I'm overwhelmed with trying to fit clothing and understanding the mechanics of all these conversions, UV mapping, converting,batching, skins,morphs and what not. Also a lot of the clothing I get doesn't seem to fit right on other characters and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. Perhaps I'm just not understanding the process. I was wondering if there was a flow chart available, for example, an M4 character might have an arrow pointing to what generation it is, followed by what converters/uv maps/batching/etc (with links to purchasable content) depending on your goal. The flowchart would eventually lead to the current Genesis, which I assume is the goal since it'll have more options available and flexibility. Would Following the flowchart in reverse allow you to change from a Genesis model back to the previous one? Would there be a reason to do so? If not a flow chart, how about a spreadsheet or a web page with drop-down menus that you select a model name or version and then it would list all that was said above. Is there anything of that nature available? A visual aid would be a big help here. Thank you for your time and any advice would be appreciated.

    Try this thread: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/64403/converting-to-g1-g2-g3-g8#latest

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 6,801
    Dear Daz family, I'm new to the daz 3D community and I got several Pro packs when they were on special which includes animals/actors/anthropomorphic creatures like the lizard man, centaur and Minotaur along with Michael 4 Victoria 4 (their variance) and freak 4. I'm overwhelmed with trying to fit clothing and understanding the mechanics of all these conversions, UV mapping, converting,batching, skins,morphs and what not. Also a lot of the clothing I get doesn't seem to fit right on other characters and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. Perhaps I'm just not understanding the process. I was wondering if there was a flow chart available, for example, an M4 character might have an arrow pointing to what generation it is, followed by what converters/uv maps/batching/etc (with links to purchasable content) depending on your goal. The flowchart would eventually lead to the current Genesis, which I assume is the goal since it'll have more options available and flexibility. Would Following the flowchart in reverse allow you to change from a Genesis model back to the previous one? Would there be a reason to do so? If not a flow chart, how about a spreadsheet or a web page with drop-down menus that you select a model name or version and then it would list all that was said above. Is there anything of that nature available? A visual aid would be a big help here. Thank you for your time and any advice would be appreciated.

    Try this thread: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/64403/converting-to-g1-g2-g3-g8#latest

  • akmerlowakmerlow Posts: 1,071

    Thanks for history, would like to see chronicle extended one day :)

  • SfariahSfariah Posts: 23,406

    Sorry to necromance the thread, but does anyone know the exact day Victoria 4.1 was released?  I got the month and year but not when in April 2008.  My email address does not have emails that go that far back.

     

  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 4,386
    Dear Daz family, I'm new to the daz 3D community and I got several Pro packs when they were on special which includes animals/actors/anthropomorphic creatures like the lizard man, centaur and Minotaur along with Michael 4 Victoria 4 (their variance) and freak 4. I'm overwhelmed with trying to fit clothing and understanding the mechanics of all these conversions, UV mapping, converting,batching, skins,morphs and what not. Also a lot of the clothing I get doesn't seem to fit right on other characters and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. Perhaps I'm just not understanding the process. I was wondering if there was a flow chart available, for example, an M4 character might have an arrow pointing to what generation it is, followed by what converters/uv maps/batching/etc (with links to purchasable content) depending on your goal. The flowchart would eventually lead to the current Genesis, which I assume is the goal since it'll have more options available and flexibility. Would Following the flowchart in reverse allow you to change from a Genesis model back to the previous one? Would there be a reason to do so? If not a flow chart, how about a spreadsheet or a web page with drop-down menus that you select a model name or version and then it would list all that was said above. Is there anything of that nature available? A visual aid would be a big help here. Thank you for your time and any advice would be appreciated.

    There's also the compatibility matrix, though it only goes up to Genesis 2 (Brodie 6, NOV20-2014). I don't know why they abandoned it.

  • Noah LGPNoah LGP Posts: 2,356
    edited July 2019

    Sorry to necromance the thread, but does anyone know the exact day Victoria 4.1 was released?  I got the month and year but not when in April 2008.  My email address does not have emails that go that far back.

     

    Wikipedia tell April 2007

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_(3D_figure)

     

    But Web Archive still show Victoria 4.0 banner on the homepage

    https://web.archive.org/web/20070501191308/http://daz3d.com:80/

    Post edited by Noah LGP on
  • TomDowdTomDowd Posts: 194

    The DAZ page for Victoria 4.1 exists on May 27, 2007, but there is no grab for it before then.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20070526095602/http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/shop/itemdetails/-/?item=4783&spmeta=rq

    TD

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 2,132

    One figure sold by DAZ that had a separate .CR2 file from Victoria 3 was Jim Burton's 'Glamorous Vickie 3'. Was this a different mesh or just a model that was really a morph akin to the current V8 character being a morph for G8? Always been a bit confused by this, especially as in March I downloaded it again after a 12 year break from figure rendering, and forgot to download V3, but GV3 worked properly regardless.

    Regards,

    Richard.

     

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 9,028

    One figure sold by DAZ that had a separate .CR2 file from Victoria 3 was Jim Burton's 'Glamorous Vickie 3'. Was this a different mesh or just a model that was really a morph akin to the current V8 character being a morph for G8?

    A bit of both ;)

    Nowadays a version for G8F would most probably be a character like V8, but the technology was rather different at the time, so Glamorous Vickie and her friend Ingenue Vickie were created as standalone figures derived from V3. Each of them has her own base obj (a morphed V3 mesh) corresponding to the character, and her own cr2 (V3 cr2 with rigging adjusted for the new base shape, and extra morph channels listed in the cr2 so it can use the additional morphs provided in the pack). That's why you don't need to have V3 installed to use them.

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,743

    One figure sold by DAZ that had a separate .CR2 file from Victoria 3 was Jim Burton's 'Glamorous Vickie 3'. Was this a different mesh or just a model that was really a morph akin to the current V8 character being a morph for G8? Always been a bit confused by this, especially as in March I downloaded it again after a 12 year break from figure rendering, and forgot to download V3, but GV3 worked properly regardless.

    Regards,

    Richard.

     

    Based off the Glamorous Vicki Set for Victoria 3.0 product page, it looks like they created a mesh that was very similar to Vicky 3, but didn't actually require the original figure. Especially this line:

    A full fledged figure, not a collection of morphs, she uses Victoria III's textures, head morphs and (if desired) body morphs.

    Sounds like a kind of product that wouldn't get past the gate today since it would mean you'd have something roughly compatible with V3 without needing to actually own V3. And, given that there seem to be compatibility issues (some items were specifically designated as being compatible with Glamorous Vicki 3), I'm guessing it didn't go over very well in the end anyway.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 9,028
    edited July 2019
    JonnyRay said:

    Sounds like a kind of product that wouldn't get past the gate today since it would mean you'd have something roughly compatible with V3 without needing to actually own V3. And, given that there seem to be compatibility issues (some items were specifically designated as being compatible with Glamorous Vicki 3), I'm guessing it didn't go over very well in the end anyway.

    That's due to technical limitations at the time: it wasn't possible to have a morph which would alter the rigging and make conforming clothes adjust to the new shape / rigging automatically, like we can now with the Genesis line.
    At the time if you wanted to create a character with a shape for which you needed to adjust the rigging, the only solution that I know of was to create a new figure with the morphed shape as its base obj, and its own cr2 which included the rigging adjustments. And of course that derived figure wasn't compatible with existing clothes without some work.

    A product like that sold at another store would most certainly not have been allowed unless it was RTE encoded against V3 obj or cr2 so you needed to own V3 to use it. (That’s how Melody for A3 was packaged when the product was at RDNA, for example)

    Post edited by Leana on
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 2,132

    The V3 clothes had to be put through 'Clothes Convertor' to get them to fit. And they often did, but not always. I think this is going back to 2004 when I was trying Poser 4 and DS0.7 onwards. Even now, the figure doesn't look too bad when rendered in IRay (test render below using the swimsuit in Jim Burton's' sale page and a glass shader test piece), but the joint limitations are frustrating.

    Regards,

    Richard.

    GV3 10 R01.jpg
    943 x 876 - 78K
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