DAZ 3D Human Figures - A History

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  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 19,013
    edited December 1969

    pwiecek said:

    Then there was a period where poser had a problem with not handling re-sizing morphs correctly (Actually, I think DS added this capability and poser didn't catch it right away). Most of the forum conversation on this concerned the freak

    Then Poser came out with a version that did handle re-sizing and the newest models work correctly.

    What happened was that DS was created with the algorithm to adjust the endpoints of the bones when you scale them, before applying rotation. It was just assumed that Poser did the same, but no one had really done extreme resizing much, so it wasn't widely known that Poser didn't. Freak 4 was the first time it became an issue for large numbers of people.

  • pwiecekpwiecek Posts: 1,379
    edited February 21

     

    fixmypcmike said:

    What happened was that DS was created with the algorithm to adjust the endpoints of the bones when you scale them, before applying rotation. It was just assumed that Poser did the same, but no one had really done extreme resizing much, so it wasn't widely known that Poser didn't. Freak 4 was the first time it became an issue for large numbers of people.

     

    Yeah, that.

    Post edited by pwiecek on
  • arialarial Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thank you so much for all this information! OMG this was so useful since I'm brand new to all this.

    Question: I plan on purchasing Sadie & Sam for Genesis. Can I use aniMate Bathroom aniBlocks on these models? I want to have Sam and Sadie brushing their teeth for a book I'm doing. I'm still a little unclear about whether or not stuff for V4 & M4 can be used on a Genesis morph (which I believe is what Sam and Sadie for Genesis are...yes?).

    Thank you!!!

  • pwiecekpwiecek Posts: 1,379
    edited December 1969

    arial said:
    Thank you so much for all this information! OMG this was so useful since I'm brand new to all this.

    Question: I plan on purchasing Sadie & Sam for Genesis. Can I use aniMate Bathroom aniBlocks on these models? I want to have Sam and Sadie brushing their teeth for a book I'm doing. I'm still a little unclear about whether or not stuff for V4 & M4 can be used on a Genesis morph (which I believe is what Sam and Sadie for Genesis are...yes?).

    Thank you!!!

    Do you need the animation? If you just want stills, look for poses. Individual poses can often be applied to figures other than the one they're made for. Sometimes they look good and sometimes need adjusting. Animation, not so much.

    Are you using poser? the included content has a lot of mundane poses (for other characters) like that.

  • arialarial Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    pwiecek said:
    arial said:
    Thank you so much for all this information! OMG this was so useful since I'm brand new to all this.

    Question: I plan on purchasing Sadie & Sam for Genesis. Can I use aniMate Bathroom aniBlocks on these models? I want to have Sam and Sadie brushing their teeth for a book I'm doing. I'm still a little unclear about whether or not stuff for V4 & M4 can be used on a Genesis morph (which I believe is what Sam and Sadie for Genesis are...yes?).

    Thank you!!!

    Do you need the animation? If you just want stills, look for poses. Individual poses can often be applied to figures other than the one they're made for. Sometimes they look good and sometimes need adjusting. Animation, not so much.

    Are you using poser? the included content has a lot of mundane poses (for other characters) like that.

    Nope! No animation. Just the poses.

    And no, I'm only using DAZ 3D Studio.

    I tried to find "brushing teeth" in a search and the only one that came up was the AniMate Bathroom aniBlocks. Are you saying there might be just poses for brushing teeth in some other pose package? Or would it be okay to use the aniMate Bathroom? Sorry, just want to be clear.

    Thank you!!!

  • pwiecekpwiecek Posts: 1,379
    edited October 2013

    The actual poser program has included content that has a wide variety of poses that I haven't seen otherwise.

    There may be a package that has poses or poses that might be used as a starting point.

    Try searching for "everyday" "grooming" and similar terms

    Maybe here

    http://www.freeposes.net/poses-free

    There are also packages of partial poses that let you mix and match different combinations. In poser, I can take any pose and break it into poses to use the same way. I'm sure DS has the same capability and now that I've mentioned it, one of their gurus will tell you how.

    Take a look at the applying Makeup pose at the site above and consider combining it with the legs from a standing pose. You'll still have to adjust to your desired figure.

    Post edited by pwiecek on
  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited October 2013

    The AniBlocks will work on Genesis, the drawback is that some V4 M4 blocks will blow out the joint rotations at the wrist, shoulders, upper hip and maybe the hip joints as well. Sometimes the full Bone rig (joints) will be over extended.

    The Big trick is going to be getting two figures, I think that's your goal, to have the proper pose you wish applied when you use the Scrubber, the frame pointer, to get to just the one frame you want so it can be rendered as a still frame. You can then Adjust the joints on just that frame for the single render type image.

    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    pwiecek said:
    There are also packages of partial poses that let you mix and match different combinations. In poser, I can take any pose and break it into poses to use the same way. I'm sure DS has the same capability and now that I've mentioned it, one of their gurus will tell you how.
    This is one thing I do to all Pose packages that come default with figures, and as my time allows to bought pose packs as well. This is my work flow, I create in DAZ Studio folders UNDER the pose set Named well things like Hands, Arms, Legs and well you get the Idea. I then apply the First pose from a set to my figure, then its as simple as Save As> Pose Preset. You only check the one part of the body, say Left Hand, turn off any X Y Z Translates. Then Save as Hand_Left-001. I go through the Full pose saving EACH part separate and In groups also. So I get Hand_Left-001 Hand_Right-001 and Hands_Both-001. Then Arms done the same way and so on. I save the full pose as parts. I then Clear my figure and apply the next pose and then break it into parts, so if a set has 10 poses I end up with Hand_Left-001 to Hand_Left-010 in the finished set. I can then apply that one file, say Hand_Right-005, to any POSE and change just that one part of the Pose I started with. I have many such POSE kits I've built this way.
  • pwiecekpwiecek Posts: 1,379
    edited December 1969

    One cool thing that used to be in poser (I haven't looked lately) is that hand poses are universal. If you save the left hand in the "hands" folder, it will AUTOMATICALLY limit the pose to the hand. Then when you apply it, it would ask "Which Hand?". I use P3DO now so I've lost this functionality.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I've not tried in DS4+ but in DS3 the PFE, Poser Format Exporter, did that on the Gen4, V4 M4, based figures. I should test that in DS4+ and the Genesis figures.

  • riftwitchriftwitch Posts: 1,366
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    pwiecek said:
    There are also packages of partial poses that let you mix and match different combinations. In poser, I can take any pose and break it into poses to use the same way. I'm sure DS has the same capability and now that I've mentioned it, one of their gurus will tell you how.
    This is one thing I do to all Pose packages that come default with figures, and as my time allows to bought pose packs as well. This is my work flow, I create in DAZ Studio folders UNDER the pose set Named well things like Hands, Arms, Legs and well you get the Idea. I then apply the First pose from a set to my figure, then its as simple as Save As> Pose Preset. You only check the one part of the body, say Left Hand, turn off any X Y Z Translates. Then Save as Hand_Left-001. I go through the Full pose saving EACH part separate and In groups also. So I get Hand_Left-001 Hand_Right-001 and Hands_Both-001. Then Arms done the same way and so on. I save the full pose as parts. I then Clear my figure and apply the next pose and then break it into parts, so if a set has 10 poses I end up with Hand_Left-001 to Hand_Left-010 in the finished set. I can then apply that one file, say Hand_Right-005, to any POSE and change just that one part of the Pose I started with. I have many such POSE kits I've built this way.

    Thanks for posting these instructions, I think they'll be really useful. I wish we could do something similar with morphs.

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
    edited December 1969

    question - what is V4 Elite? In some places it is referred to as morphs and on other places it is referred to as textures (with character names like Lana etc).But it can't be both morphs AND textures, surely?

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Yep it is, V4 has both, a set of Morphs called Elite and many texture sets also called elite... But they were best got here...
    http://www.daz3d.com/v4-elite-bundle

  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,307
    edited December 1969

    There's now an official Compatibility Matrix available here if you want to know which content works with which figures.

    Also see SickleYield's thread A DAZ Newbie's Guide to the Figures which covers some of the same information, in a condensed and easy to follow format.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,700
    edited December 1969

    In case somebody is curious about the first Aiko:
    http://wiki.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/673/start

  • ChromaDrakeChromaDrake Posts: 288
    edited December 1969

    pwiecek said:
    I had not seen that site, thank you for posting the link!
  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,307
    edited January 2014

    There's now an official Compatibility Matrix available here if you want to know which content works with which figures.

    Also see SickleYield's thread A DAZ Newbie's Guide to the Figures which covers some of the same information, in a condensed and easy to follow format.


    The first three posts in the thread have now been updated with information on Genesis 2 Male and new releases.
    Post edited by Scott Livingston on
  • devid.stone88devid.stone88 Posts: 2
    edited December 1969

    Thank you Scott very nice

  • Sport89Sport89 Posts: 1
    edited December 1969

    Scott,

    Thanks for that original post -- really answered everything I've been wondering. I'm still confused on a couple issues though: Why did DAZ name their latest series "Genesis 2"? That's exactly the same name as the characters included in Poser 7 (James G2, Kelvin, Jessi G2, Sydney, etc.)! Were they trying to confuse us? Is there any relation? Also, I understand that the DAZ Genesis 2 characters are useable in Poser via the DSON importer, but how would you get the base meshes to begin with if they're only included in DS?

    Thanks again!
    Matt

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    edited January 2014

    You get them in the Genesis starter essentials and the genesis 2 starter essentials. I beleive these come with the DSON importer as well as with DS.

    However as DS is free it doesn't cost anything to download the Starter essentials from the DS package. You don't need to donwload or install DS itself.

    And the DAZ 3D figures are Genesis 2 Female and Genesis 2 Male, Completely different to the Poser G2 figures, even in the name.

    Plus of course DAZ 3D already had a generation 2 with V2 and M2,

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,700
    edited December 1969

    The Poser G2 stands for Generation2, not Genesis.

  • KharmaKharma Posts: 3,168
    edited December 1969

    Scott, thanks so much for putting that list together, the only thing I have to add now is what UV set each uses. I notice in my DS some load with no UV listed so I have to try different ones to be sure it uses base UV, or if it has its own UV map. Appreciate you doing all that work.

  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,307
    edited December 1969

    Kharma said:
    Scott, thanks so much for putting that list together, the only thing I have to add now is what UV set each uses. I notice in my DS some load with no UV listed so I have to try different ones to be sure it uses base UV, or if it has its own UV map. Appreciate you doing all that work.

    That's a good idea for an update...thanks for the feedback. :)
  • pwiecekpwiecek Posts: 1,379
    edited December 1969

    Looking at my archive and from memory there were these versions of V3:

    Original
    SR 1
    SR 1.1
    SR 2
    SAE
    New Generation 2005

    The Original through SAE was the normal, inconsistently named progression of versions. There was usually a corresponding SR for the Head and Body Morphs.

    New Generation was a set of head morphs that was entirely separate from the mainline Head & Body morphs. As far as I know there was only one character released using these morphs.

  • ArthurOPoddArthurOPodd Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    Sometime around the time V4 came out, there was a polygon comparison. That is, how many polygons the various figures had as a comparison of how much detail the characters (1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Generation) had. Lately I was told that Genesis 1 has a lower polygon count than 3rd Generation and that was why character textures weren't exact on converting character textures from the original to the Genesis Legacy figures.

    Anyone know where to find the polygon count comparison from 1st Gen to Genesis 2 figures?

    Is there a texture converter to convert favorite character textures between 3rd generation, 4th generation and Genesis 2 figures?

    Thanks

  • pwiecekpwiecek Posts: 1,379
    edited January 19

     

    ArthurOPodd said:

    Is there a texture converter to convert favorite character textures between 3rd generation, 4th generation and Genesis 2 figures?

     

    Thanks

     

    Gen1/2 to Gen3 - Texture Converter (Original)
    Gen3 to Gen4 - TC2
    There is software or an add-on that handles more modern figures. I'll post as soon as I figure it out.

    Added 6 years later:

    In this post Gen is "Generation" not "Genesis"

    Post edited by pwiecek on
  • pwiecekpwiecek Posts: 1,379
    edited December 1969

    Genesis 1 has a lower polygon count than 3rd Generation

    As time went on, hardware and software got better and could handle more poly's, so models got heavier poly counts. But then, along came the various forms of sub division and lower poly models were made to take advantage of it.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,700
    edited December 1969

    pwiecek said:
    Is there a texture converter to convert favorite character textures between 3rd generation, 4th generation and Genesis 2 figures?

    Thanks

    Gen1/2 to Gen3 - Texture Converter (Original)
    Gen3 to Gen4 - TC2
    There is software or an add-on that handles more modern figures. I'll post as soon as I figure it out.

    Blacksmith3d at Renderosity

  • pwiecekpwiecek Posts: 1,379
    edited December 1969

    Kerya said:
    pwiecek said:
    Is there a texture converter to convert favorite character textures between 3rd generation, 4th generation and Genesis 2 figures?

    Thanks

    Gen1/2 to Gen3 - Texture Converter (Original)
    Gen3 to Gen4 - TC2
    There is software or an add-on that handles more modern figures. I'll post as soon as I figure it out.

    Blacksmith3d at Renderosity

    I was thinking of Texture Transformer, also by Blacksmith 3d

    Thanks Kerya

  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,307
    edited February 2014

    Kharma said:
    Scott, thanks so much for putting that list together, the only thing I have to add now is what UV set each uses. I notice in my DS some load with no UV listed so I have to try different ones to be sure it uses base UV, or if it has its own UV map. Appreciate you doing all that work.

    That's a good idea for an update...thanks for the feedback. :)

    Here goes...let me know if you spot any errors or have anything to add...once it's finished I'll add it to one of the posts in the front of the thread...

    List of UV sets for Generations 4-6

    Q: What is a UV set? And how do I manually change the UV set?
    A: Please refer to page 46 of the User Guide for the official explanation

    Figure/Character--Default UV
    Victoria 4--V4
    Aiko 4--V4
    Girl 4--V4
    Stephanie 4--V4
    Michael 4--M4
    Hiro 4--M4
    Freak 4--M4
    The Kids 4--K4

    Genesis--V4 (note: Genesis also comes with M4, K4, Genesis Basic Female, and Genesis Basic Male options)
    Victoria 5--V5
    Hitomi--Hitomi
    Michael 5--M5
    Stephanie 5--S5
    Hiro 5--H5
    Freak 5--F5
    Justin--V4
    Julie--V4
    Aiko 5--A5
    David 5--D5
    Monstrosities, Troll, and some others each have their own UV set as well

    Genesis 2 Female--G2F (note: also comes with V5 UVs)
    Victoria 6--V6
    Gia 6--Gia6
    Girl 6--Girl6
    Olympia 6--O6
    Josie--G2F (note: also comes with V6 UVs)
    Stephanie 6--S6

    Genesis 2 Male--G2M (note: also comes with M5 UVs)
    Michael 6--M6
    Jayden--G2M

    Currently, V5 and M5 UVs are compatible with Genesis 2 by default. There are products available that will enable V4 and M4 UVs to be used with Genesis 2. If you wish to use a skin texture that uses another UV, you can try a map transfer (see tutorial here).

    For female Genesis characters, there's a list here of which characters use which UV sets.

    Post edited by Scott Livingston on
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