Eyebrows 2
Ok so this is a new genesis eyebrows thread because the other ones are confusing. So I apply genesis eyebrows lower the opacity on the skin part and bang!!! looks great. Ok I render close up still looks great but far away I get an outline why?
Post edited by kon on
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If there's a glossiness or specular, try taking that out? I don't have the product, but there is a similar issue with the stock V4/M4 eyebrows that fixed when I took out the specularity.
Thank you iwill try it
Hi,
I have to come back to this topic too.
I followed the manual in the referenced thread.
1. In the working pane there isn't any eyebrow displayed. But in the render it appears. So far ...
2. Using the Genesis1 Base there isn't any material preset to apply to the eyebrows base. So I created a material preset out of the standard Genesis Male.
3. But what ever I do, the resulting eyebrows base appears way too dark in the final render.
I Think, the reason is, that the eyebrows are not using the Skin construct (UV Set) which is used by the Genesis1 Male base character. It is not compatoble to any of the Genesis characters bases delivered with DAZ 4.6.
EyeBrows offers only the standard UV, whereas the characters use Michael4, Victoria4, The Kids4, ... UV Sets.
But that too dark background is also the problem if using other skin texture / color. I tried it with Genesis Basic Child (Kids4), JT Justin and own new skin color presets, too. Ever the same problem as shown in the attached pichture.
Andy
Instead of using a skinned texture on the eyebrow, have you tried using a trans map? Or even use both to blot out the area away from the eyebrows themselves. I suppose you'd have to make your own to go with each set of eyebrows, but it may solve all the issues.
Hi,
I don't understand, what you're supposing. What is the trans map you're talking about?
Perhaps you should first have a look into the product and the "tutorial" postings here in the forum about it --> http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/8726/#116135
I think, that I do something wrong in the step "Please apply skin texture to brow" first, or the product has a failure in it. Because it doesn't apply the texture structure and the correct UV set.
The rest works fine. Especially when you use displacement to get real 3D brows effect through the opacity texture maps.
I'm suggesting making a transparency map to make everything but the brows themselves invisible as a fix for a skin that doesn't match the texture you've applied to your Genesis. It looks like the skin texture around the brows is a little different color than the skin texture you're using on your Genesis figure.
I never did get this item to do well for me. Many did, I could not. If a work around is found I also would like to know it.
You need a transparency map for the brow prop that fades the edges of it, this will help blend the prop's texture to the figure's texture while still covering the figure's texture painted on brow.
Yea OK,
but this is not the point, because it is included.
The main bug is that in the necessary step of applying skin texture to the cover, it doesn't inherit the UV-set of the skin. Afterwards you only have the standard UV instead of the corresponding UV-set belonging to the skin. As a result you have the difference in color I did show in my pictures.
When will the author deliver the necessary bugfix ??
The eyebrow pre-dates the additional UV sets, so lack of them isn't a bug. A polite request for an update, delivered through a support ticket, is more likely to get a response.
Sorry Richard,
but I see this different.
The skin shader has and shows the related UV-sets. After applying this skin to the eyebrows' placeholder, the eyebrows placeholder replaces the skin's UV-sets with only the standard UV.
This definately is a bug.
The UV set in the preset is just a setting - the eyebrow doesn't have those UV sets, or need them, so it has no effect. The eyebrow sues a trick that will work about as well on any UV set - it has the UVs shifted down relative to the standard (which is pretty similar for all mappings) so that the eyebrow cover shows an area of texture from further up the forehead and so, with the transparency blend, masks out the brows on the face. If there are strong patterns on the forehead, or if there's a marked shift in tone from eyebrow level to the upper forehead then the layer will stand out.
The workflow is: apply the material settings for the face to the eeybrow prop; apply the transmap to the eyebrow prop (applying the fae preset will have removed it); aply desired brows.
Hi Richard,
I exactly followed that workflow.
In the result you see, that in the workplane it seems to be OK. But the render shows the difference of the color resulting from the wrong UV-set.
The UV-set of the eyebrows replacement section (trans map - as you call it) is "Default UVs". But the correct UV for the skin must be "Michael 4", as it is for the normal skin of the Genesis male (material setting). And there is now way to apply the correct Genesis UV-set for the brow area afterwards.
This is what has to be corrected.
For my oppinion the author never tested the render result.
But if you really think it works correct, so please show the workflow with screenshots for each single step.
And please don't forget the final render. ;)
Hi guys!
I have a couple of suggestions that have worked for me for brow type props in the past.
1. Make sure that the Shader Base is the same for the Eyebrow Prop as it is on your Base Figure. In your renders posted above if you look above the material zone listing it shows the Shader Type used and that will need to match the skin's shader type on your base figure. IF it doesn't this can cause the darker/different rendering you are getting.
2. Over in the Parameters Tab under the Display section make sure that casts shadows is turned off.
Hope this helps!
Elli
It should be enough to select the eyebrow and apply the material preset you sued on the Genesis figure. As i said, this is not likely to be a UV issue as the whole point is to take a section of skin that doesn't have brows and use it to cover the brows on the texture - so there are going to be seams, which the transmap should blend, and there may be colour or detail mismatches which are not fixable - the item won't work there. However, it does look as if Elliandra is right is you are just copying and pasting settings as the Genesis materials use the Human Surface Shader and the eyebrow uses the Default DAZ Shader on loading.
Note that you have to use the same skin for both Genesis and the brow prop - rereading your post above it sounds as if you are expecting a single preset that will work with any skin texture.
Hi Richard,
Yes, I did. I selected the brow replacement area with the surface selecting tool and applyed the Genesis face material preset. And it is really that skin preset of the selected character. So every skin setting was automatically replaced with the Genesis properties - except the UV set. And in the workplane, it looked OK (as you see in the picture). But only in the render, there was the difference. And this is only due to the wrong lighting model of the different UV sets.
Therefore:
It seems that I'm complete lost.
Please somebody post a detailed manual with explict screenshots of each step. I really don't know, what to try else. I thought I did exactly that what Richard and Eliandra described.
Thank you
Yes, I did. I selected the brow replacement area with the surface selecting tool and applyed the Genesis face material preset. And it is really that skin preset of the selected character. So every skin setting was automatically replaced with the Genesis properties - except the UV set. And in the workplane, it looked OK (as you see in the picture). But only in the render, there was the difference. And this is only due to the wrong lighting model of the different UV sets.
Therefore:
It seems that I'm complete lost.
Please somebody post a detailed manual with explict screenshots of each step. I really don't know, what to try else. I thought I did exactly that what Richard and Eliandra described.
Thank youFrom what you just posted you missed the step of adding the trans map back. It gets removed when you add the Genesis texture and you need to add it back before use. This it To the Brow Prop item of course.
You apply the material preset to the Eyebrow that you applied to the base figure, then you apply the preset for the brows you want - in fact on the ones I tested it wasn't necessary to restore the opacity map, but it may sometimes happen that it is. There's no need to manually copy anything.
Hi Jade,
after what you posted I got completely lost.
When I re-add the trans map, I'll get the white "Please apply ..." cover on the forehead again.
Becaus nobody seems to be able to give a detailed illustrated instruction, let me show what I did.
Pictures attached at the end
(I hope they will appear in the correct sequence)
Step 1:
I inserted the standard Genesis1 Basic Male. Then select the character's head.
Step 2:
Apply the basic eyebrow prop to the head of the character. Now I'm requested to apply some skin material to that zone.
Initially there isn't any Genesis base material stuff for Genesis skin texture. OK, you can do it manually for each attribute of the numerous entries in the texture setting, but ... So I simply saved my Genesis complete skin as a material preset for later easier use.
Step 3:
Select the "SkinFace" material tab with the surface selection tool. Here I applyed the complete face skin setting of the original Genesis. Afterwards all paramaters look the same compared with the normal Genesis skin setting - except the UV set. But there is no way to change it to the necessary correct value.
In the working plane it looks quite good.
But in the render you see the remarkable difference !!
...
Continued in the next post
Now let me continue with the final step.
Step 4:
Make a mouse right click on the EyebrowsBase. Then I select the entry "Select 'EyebrowBase'".
Now I can apply an Eyebrow material and get the visible eyebrow only in the render result.
End.
But as you see, there is still the too dark / wrong color of the eyebrow's zone. Only visible in the render result.
If you see that I had the wrong sequence or missed a necessary step, so please advise.
So from the picture of step 2 you may have the impression, I added the skin texture to the wrong entry.
No -
I really applied it to the surface entry "1_SkinFace" of the eyebrow placeholder, as sleceted in the picture "Step 3".
It's just the way the item works - in tis case I don't think there's much you can do about it, though an alternative transmap on the skin layer might be able to soften it more (one with a wider transition from white to black).
Yea Richard,
exactly this is the point.
As you see, the texture characters change "magically" while applied to the brow's replacement prop. And as you see, the only different parameter is the UV set which can not be changed.
This is the bug I was talking about.
When will this be repaired?
Andy
It isn't a bug - the eyebrow is meant to take texture from up on the forehead to cover the existing brows, there's no other way it could mask them out. As a result it will fail for some texture sets where the forehead texture does not blend well with the eyebrow area texture.
Richard sorry,
but didn't you really mean what you stated in your previous post?
As you see, the skin from the area above the brow region is identical to the place it should be set to.
And the description of the product states a 100% compatibility to Genesis.
As you see in the result, it is not.
To do so it has to take the UV set of Genesis to fit. At the moment it does not. That is the bug.
The author simply has to correct the behaviour of the brow cover that is able to inherit the skin's UV too. That's it.
Is it that difficult to understand?
The description states there may be limitations, which from my point of view is just how it works.
The description states there may be limitations, which from my point of view is just how it works.The information section that goes with the product is one of the first sections I read just for such reasons. The reason I no longer use this item is because most of the textures I wish to use it with have just such a limitation on them. It does work well on many just not the ones I wished to change.
To Address the UV as the cause and its need in this product. As a part time hobby prop maker I would love to learn of any way to apply a UV from a part of one item to another. As far as I have ever learned only a entire mat zone UV can be applied to a mesh of the same mesh count or UV zones with some adjustments. So the Brow Item would then take the full Face material UV and distort it to fit the item (full texture squeezed onto just the brow prop) or it simply can not have the Figure UV. Cutting the UV in any way creates a new UV that would once again Not match the UV from the figure simply because the UV changed with the cut. DAZ Studio can do many things but UV mapping and Adjusting on the fly is not built into the program, which is what is being asked for. As far as I know the best DAZ Studio can do is Display Item UV's and transfer texture maps to other full UV templates.