February, 2020 - DAZ 3D New User Challenge - Lighting and Light Effects

Linwelly · February 2020

TrisValentine said:

L'Adair said:

When you are using emissive surfaces, adding a color other than white affects how the light is rendered when it's in the camera frame. I've not done much experimenting with using color in the Color parameter when the light is out of frame.

I'll fire up the beast and do a few test renders for you.

Thank you, i will look forward to it.

Linwelly said:

Theory first: little reminder of your applied physics course :D

average daylight temperatures ranges from 3000 to 5500 with the lower ones being the evening and early morning sun and the 5800 you get around noon. A candle flame or a fire will emit light in the range between 2500 and 3000, an untapered neonlight about 4000.

Now maybe take a rel life spotlight with a light temperature 7000 and put a yellow filter in front of it, that's what happens when you change the colour of the emission in your settings.

With a colour filter in front of a real spotlight you filter out every other wavelenght of light except the one with the respective colour, so even with a strong light a lot of brightness gets lost.

while changing the light temperature you will still have a mix of different wavelenghts and a higher light intensity.

So as in real life you can try to fake a comely light with colour filters and it will look close to the "real" thing. But it will not be the same as human eyes have adapted to certain light settings and will receive the light different.

All this is not as extreme in DS as it is in reallife but Iray actually gives a close result, You can make a little experiment with a simple setup of a singe spheres and a simple plame which is made emissive, directed onto the sphere to reduce outside impact put it all into a huge cube. now put the settings of the plane to 3000 ^K and white and afterwards (to make it a bit more extreme put it to 6000 with a light orange tint and compare the resutls on the sphere, afterwards switch it around and have the plane white on 6000 and try it then on 3000°K with a light blue tint.

I hope this helps and is not too confusing

here is a link to the wiki page as well for further details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature

edit to say, a gel light in principle works similar to a coloured light, there are some more options to manipulate though like changin the distance to the light source which will make is sharper or more blurry. also a gel light plane you can use several colours in one go

What i understood is that orange emission will omit orange colored wavelength from whole white color only which reduces limits its intensity to omitted color? and changing temprature to 1500 for orange tint will create a full white color light with high intensity having all full wavelengths of white color which is not limited to to one single color? like its compressing light or something? or i am wrong

i did the test like you said.
1 - 6500 white
2 - 1500 white
3 - 2000 white
4 - 3000 white
5 - 6000 light orange
6 - 6000 white
7 - 3000 light blue

Edit - I don't know how colors look on other people's display cause i have very bright gaming monitor.
This question was just out of my curiosity.

I think your list got mixed up at some point as the one you titles t1 really doesn't look like 6500°K with pure white emissive colour... other question is at which luminance did you render?

I will not comment more tonight as I'm really tired, so more comes tomorrow, I will just add th testrenders as I made them, I included the light settings in the screenshots

0996ps · February 2020

Linwelly said:

I think your list got mixed up at some point as the one you titles t1 really doesn't look like 6500°K with pure white emissive colour... other question is at which luminance did you render?

I will not comment more tonight as I'm really tired, so more comes tomorrow, I will just add th testrenders as I made them, I included the light settings in the screenshots

Yes i made mistake naming it.
It was orange color 6500 temprature.

100k (100,000) lumens. No problem and have a nice sleep. I will also not work anymore today.

L'Adair · February 2020

@TrisValentine, Here are some quick tests. These are all viewport draws, with Draw Mode set to Iray Nvidia and Environment set to a Color Black Backdrop. Images link to original size, and open in a new window.

The first two images have Emission applied to the light, using the Emission Color: White and Emission Temperature (K) of 4500. The light renders white, and the plane does not have any yellow on it. Full size image does show some yellow cast inside the glass.

The next three images have the Emission Color set to a bright yellow and the Emission Temperature (K) set to 0. The light renders the bright yellow, and fills the interior of the glass. The plane in the second image, however, still does not have a yellow cast.

The third image bumps the Luminance up to 60000 kcd/m^2 and does provide a slight yellow cast to the plane. (The same Luminance value did not produce a yellow cast in the Emission Color White example, so I didn't capture the draw.)

With a different set, I loaded the Iray version. I changed only the two globes in the center fixture, changing Emission Color to a bright green and Emission Temperature (K) to 0. The Luminance value is the default, and the same as the other globes in the set.

This last image changes the Emission Color to a soft yellow that matches the color of the rest of the globes. Emission Temperature (K) is still 0. Notice the reflected color above the four globes. The reflected color on the left has a greenish cast to it.

I hope this helps.

Chohole · February 2020

Olo_Ordinaire said:

Oops. I posted this and one other to the wrong forum. Moderators feel free to delete!

0996ps · February 2020

L'Adair said:

I hope this helps.

Thank you very much for your time and efforts. I sometimes feel little bad for asking too many questions here. I understand litlle bit of the concept behind this now but i will probably learn better when i am working with lights and by lighting different things.

Gel lighting and gobo lighting work is going slower then expected. I did make couple of scenes and renders but i ditched them as i didn't feel they were good enough quality for iray. Anyway looking at some gobo/gel references again and again today did give me some new ideas and its really nice to learn about things i never knew about. I had never heard about gobo and gel lights before i discovered this challenge. Even the last challenge about duplication helped a lot. When i was extending dream house by placing trees and walls i did not knew about instancing. Imagine how bad the lag was loading more then 20 trees and 40 walls in one scene.

I really appreciate the efforts everyone is placing in this challenges.

dennisgray41 · February 2020

Linwelly said:

dennisgray41 said:

How does this look?

Very good starting point! I suggest you experimant a bit on different possibilities of the camera, the light direction and maybe try to get her shadow into the image.

Thanks for your help. Btw. All this was to get shadows in 3 delight, but how do I turn on the shadows in IRay, in other projects?

dennisgray41 · February 2020

Latest render. This would be really hard in I ray.

Linwelly · February 2020

dennisgray41 said:

Linwelly said:

dennisgray41 said:

How does this look?

Very good starting point! I suggest you experimant a bit on different possibilities of the camera, the light direction and maybe try to get her shadow into the image.

Thanks for your help. Btw. All this was to get shadows in 3 delight, but how do I turn on the shadows in IRay, in other projects?

In Iray the shadows are always there, as it tries to simulate physical light, and there is no light without shadow. So no options to get rid of shadows in iray either, only some clever light settings to make a plac e seem shadowless

Kismet2012 · February 2020

TrisValentine said:

Linwelly said:

No question is stupid, but good thing you found the answer already! You probably will have to dial up the photometric value a good deal to achieve soemthing that actually looks like light

Could you tell me about difference between a lower temperature light and yellow/orange color light?
Also difference between a simple color light and a primitive plane gel light?

Here i am lighting a scene and in first pic i used yellow colored emission and in second white emission but with 2700 temperature. I can't see much difference in color except temprature one has higher reflection on wall where arrow is pointing.

Hopefully someone will correct me if I am wrong but with temperature you are going to get a more "natural" looking light based on the temp you are using.

By colouring the light you have more control over the specific shade, ie: the only way to get purple is to colour the light.

Any time you put a primitive in front of a light source it is going to dim the light. Like having a set of sheer curtains covering a window. The light still comes through but not as strong.

Which light you use will come down to a combination of personal taste and what is required for the image. Each has their advantages and disadvantages.

Kismet2012 · February 2020

Shinji Ikari 9th said:

Version D here, doing some tweeks to the table that my first two characters are seated at, (at least turning the chair that was blocking the view of the one that I added last time so that they're easier to see.) and adding a character walking away from said table. (I'm exparamented with face transfer to put myself in this one, though my hair isn't as thin as my digital counterpart it has started to thin out.)

You have some good reflections on the floor and the characters are looking good. Poses look natural. Is the only source of light coming from the outside? Are interior lights turned on?

I am missing pools of light coming from light sources inside the facility.

Kismet2012 · February 2020

dennisgray41 said:

Linwelly said:

dennisgray41 said:

How does this look?

Very good starting point! I suggest you experimant a bit on different possibilities of the camera, the light direction and maybe try to get her shadow into the image.

Thanks for your help. Btw. All this was to get shadows in 3 delight, but how do I turn on the shadows in IRay, in other projects?

Shadows are always on in Iray. Every light source you use will cast shadows.

Kismet2012 · February 2020

dennisgray41 said:

Latest render. This would be really hard in I ray.

If you move or possibley rotate her arm / shoulder back slightly it may allow more of her face to be visible. Other than that her pose looks great and she has a wonderful expression.

I really like that shot of red in an otherwise monochromatic image.

Shinji Ikari 9th · February 2020

Kismet2012 said:

Shinji Ikari 9th said:

Version D here, doing some tweeks to the table that my first two characters are seated at, (at least turning the chair that was blocking the view of the one that I added last time so that they're easier to see.) and adding a character walking away from said table. (I'm exparamented with face transfer to put myself in this one, though my hair isn't as thin as my digital counterpart it has started to thin out.)

You have some good reflections on the floor and the characters are looking good. Poses look natural. Is the only source of light coming from the outside? Are interior lights turned on?

I am missing pools of light coming from light sources inside the facility.

The lights are on, but they're currently using 40 watt bulbs.

sueya · February 2020

I have checked that the man and dog are on the ground plane using my "Drop to terrain" script. I have also changed the dog's pose to make it look more natural. I changed the colour of the IBL light to yellow which I think has toned down the glossiness of the dog a bit. I tried to add some shadows to show that both figures are on the ground by adding a spotlight above the man but I don't think the angle is right.

marjoemartino · February 2020

So here is ver.3. I think this will be the last revision, I am happy with the way it looks now, I ended up adding a spotlight really high up to camera left and pointed it at the roof for the "moonlight".

rcbcgreenpanzer · February 2020

I guess I'm channeling Anastacia of Astora, now.

Gobo is courtesy of OutOfTouch; I was lazy so I grabbed a HairBlend mask instead of firing up Gimp. I dropped the gel in favor of turning the temperature up, as the light didn't seem right.

rcbcgreenpanzer · February 2020

marjoemartino said:

So here is ver.3. I think this will be the last revision, I am happy with the way it looks now, I ended up adding a spotlight really high up to camera left and pointed it at the roof for the "moonlight".

marjoemartino: You may want to look into emission profiles for your flashlight. There's a forum thread here and a product here; I'm not very practiced with them, but it really helps differetiate between close, man-made lights and distant and/or natural lights. Your lighting is really even, which makes more sense for sunlight or moonlight than something behind a glass lense. Additionally, the profile can help draw the eye to the source, whereas in your image I find the flashlight easy to overlook.

rcbcgreenpanzer · February 2020

sueya said:

<snip>

I have checked that the man and dog are on the ground plane using my "Drop to terrain" script. I have also changed the dog's pose to make it look more natural. I changed the colour of the IBL light to yellow which I think has toned down the glossiness of the dog a bit. I tried to add some shadows to show that both figures are on the ground by adding a spotlight above the man but I don't think the angle is right.

Part of the difficulty of using IBL is the interface between 2D and 3D. It's relatively straight-forward to manage when the area around the camera is flat. (Relatively is the key word.) Unfortunately, it doesn't look like your dome is doing you any favors. The pure topography of the site would have been bad enough, but the immediate area is full of bushes! Captured as a flat image, I don't know of any way to weave your 3D characters in amongst them the way they would have been had they been in front of that camera.

A common solution is cut off your characters' feet, but that doesn't really work with what your characters are doing. If you plan to stick with IBL, I would recommend looking for a flatter image: a field, not a brushy hillside.

bastian2560 · February 2020

AT, Kismet2012. I started of by doing a smiple render to show the light bulb but i took on a life of it's owne. i think this one belongs in the beginer challange but don't know.

Now for the problem. Is the lightbulb magic or is it the boy?

bastian2560 · February 2020

Hi Sueya. You clould add a prop as a base for your figers to stand on like a big rock or somthing. In this render the marble and figers are props and every thing behind her is a LBI. I hope this helps.

Not for the challange.

0996ps · February 2020

sueya said:

I have checked that the man and dog are on the ground plane using my "Drop to terrain" script. I have also changed the dog's pose to make it look more natural. I changed the colour of the IBL light to yellow which I think has toned down the glossiness of the dog a bit. I tried to add some shadows to show that both figures are on the ground by adding a spotlight above the man but I don't think the angle is right.

You have a nice pose in this scene. did you make it yourself? The background HDRI is way off and does not suit this scene. The subjects are not standing on ground even if the script said so. I feel like you should just change the HDRI and here is Forum Thread that lists free to use HDRI's. I recommend using a park HDRI and properly reading licences for whichever HDRI you end up using.

To reduce the glossiness you have to select dog first and change settings under surface tab.

EDIT:
Other than this, i feel like you need to use something to showcase lighting. I mean the challenge's theme is presence or lack of lighting and using a variety of them will be nice.

0996ps · February 2020

bastian2560 said:

Hi Sueya. You clould add a prop as a base for your figers to stand on like a big rock or somthing. In this render the marble and figers are props and every thing behind her is a LBI. I hope this helps.

Not for the challange.

That is a very nice picture.

0996ps · February 2020

bastian2560 said:

AT, Kismet2012. I started of by doing a smiple render to show the light bulb but i took on a life of it's owne. i think this one belongs in the beginer challange but don't know.

Now for the problem. Is the lightbulb magic or is it the boy?

This scene looks very nice.

This is purely my view and you can ignore it but if there was some kind of volumetric light coming from windows that lit some of the the room then that that would look awsome. The scene could be darker to make the bulb stand out and could even create reflections in the eyes of the boy.

LaPartita · February 2020

Hi! Lots of great stuff here - I can't wait to go back through the thread and look at everything more thoroughly. In the meantime, I'm participating in the intermediate challenge. Here is my image so far:

I ended up with this after a few hours of playing around with various toys (especially the Luminosity light sets, which are a LOT of fun). I really like a lot of the elements of this image, but taken together ... it doesn't feel cohesive, and I'm at a loss as to what direction to go next. Comments/critiques/advice would be very much appreciated!

c.loth19756425567 · February 2020

Hello,

here is my entry for the beginner's "Lighting" competition. I played quite a bit with up to four lights to get the mood I wanted for this scene. In the end, I decided to use just two lights: the cold, slightly bluish "moon-light" through the window and the warm light from the candle. Both lights meet at the scene's main figure.

I would really appreciate critiques, hints and tips for improving the scene :)

I call the scene "Nighthounds".

Best regards,

bastian2560 · February 2020

@cloth1975. WoW! I loveit. Um what is she holdng? And the thng looking throug the window with the moon light on it is awsome.

bastian2560 · February 2020

@TrisValentine, What i was thinkig and there are some other things i wont to do as well. Plus i wont to have a go at doing some trans on the ears.

Kismet2012 · February 2020

bastian2560 said:

AT, Kismet2012. I started of by doing a smiple render to show the light bulb but i took on a life of it's owne. i think this one belongs in the beginer challange but don't know.

Now for the problem. Is the lightbulb magic or is it the boy?

Images taking on a life of their own does seem to happen. I often start out with one idea and end up somewhere completely different.

To answer your problem...for me it is the boy.

Kismet2012 · February 2020

LaPartita said:

Hi! Lots of great stuff here - I can't wait to go back through the thread and look at everything more thoroughly. In the meantime, I'm participating in the intermediate challenge. Here is my image so far:

I ended up with this after a few hours of playing around with various toys (especially the Luminosity light sets, which are a LOT of fun). I really like a lot of the elements of this image, but taken together ... it doesn't feel cohesive, and I'm at a loss as to what direction to go next. Comments/critiques/advice would be very much appreciated!

The problem may be the black background. It gives the impression of going on forever. Is there a backdrop or did you change the background colour to black? If there is no backdrop perhaps adding something, even a plane or a curtain if you have one, to give the impression there is a "wall" of some kind behind her. Like if she is on a stage.

Lovely image.

Kismet2012 · February 2020

cloth1975 said:

Hello,

here is my entry for the beginner's "Lighting" competition. I played quite a bit with up to four lights to get the mood I wanted for this scene. In the end, I decided to use just two lights: the cold, slightly bluish "moon-light" through the window and the warm light from the candle. Both lights meet at the scene's main figure.

I would really appreciate critiques, hints and tips for improving the scene :)

I call the scene "Nighthounds".

Best regards,

This is getting really nitpicky but is the flame on the candle a separate prop? Can it be adjusted? If yes, the flame should be up straight even as the candle is being held at an angle.

Or it could be the camera's angel that is giving me that impression.

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February, 2020 - DAZ 3D New User Challenge - Lighting and Light Effects

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