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Overall I agree.
I also think people's expectations have gone up too....
I don't know that any such blanket statement can really be fair. . I would gripe that some folks repeat themselves far too often for my tastes, but I simply don't buy from them beyond one version of the same type of character. And I totally get where that comes from. Say someone has a hit with a vampire or werewolf. The new base comes out and they want to have another hit. What to do?
I've got my favorite vendors like we all do. My favorite ones may not be the most well known or top sellers on the site, but quality on the whole is still....at least to me, best at Daz.
I tend to repeat myself with products for each new generation, because there are always ways to make them diffferent and better than before. There are so many different ways to make a werewolf and vampire (and zombie and aliens and orcs and goblins and everything I do) that I have not even tapped into yet.
Those are my favorite kinds of characters, so I will not stop making them....and I will always keep trying to make them even better.
Odd_Platypus "but the vram and system ram requirements must make them unusable for many buyers."
There are still too many users that think that detailed 3D rendered scenes can be created in minutes on hardware that is barely capable for internet browsing. My perspective is tht too many people still woefully underestimate the difficulty of all aspects of the hobby.
Your comment takes me back to gamers compliants when games began to require a video card, soound card or CD drive.
3D rendering is not for the faint of hardware. People complaining about cost should recognize that PA's live under the same constraints.
Your characters do keep getting better, which is why I keep buying them, Boss. I didn't really aim that at anyone in particular. I was just trying to be more original than saying, "Skinny white girl" characters. Know what I mean, Jelly Bean?
I noticed the same in reg. of quality and the high prices these days.
What I never liked is when a new outfit comes out with no other textures, those are products that I do not buy any more.
I think it is somewhat wrong to let us pay so much for an outfit with just the one texture.
Do not get me wrong, I think most vendors do a fantastic job and, they do deserve to be paid, but please, do add textures to the outfits, like, 3 more textures would be great.
I was just about to post that for myself, I know that my expectations have risen as the "base" quality has improved over the years.
For instance, I'm now more focused on the flexibility of an outfit. How are the material zones laid out? Can I recolor / rexture them or will I lose too many details doing that? Can I re-use a skirt from one outfit with a top from another or are the styles so specific that they'll look silly together? How does the clothing support body morphs and movements beyond a simple standing modeling pose? If it's not dForce enabled by default, does it explode when I try to set it up myself?
A character morph / texture has to be REALLY special now that I have about 30 of them for G8 females. And I'm looking for more "natural" looks. In other words they should have some flaws. I have enough generic perfect supermodels. Give me a girl (or man) that has some character to them.
Poses that don't offer partials and mix/match aren't likely to get my money either. Even better if they do the mirroring for me so I don't have to remember how to do that myself. I'd rather spend $15 on poses I can use quickly for the specific look I want than $9 on a set where I'm constrained to a single look that the PA chose for me.
There is definitely quality in the market. Some new vendors are clearly still learning. Some others have come out of the gate with impressive products. Just because I'm being pickier about spending my money doesn't mean the overall quality is lower. It just means I'm being more discerning as a consumer.
There is also always the relevant XKCD
That video is not actually related. Texture size is something different than monitor resolution.
Texture size in DS should be related to how much space it takes up in the render. A huge terrain piece with a single non-tiled 1024x1024 texture is going to look pretty hideous; likewise putting 4096x4096 textures on something the size of a pencil is wasteful and unnecessary. Appropriate texture size for intended screen space.
That said, we as PAs tend to err on the side of "too large" and even then there's always someone who takes that tiny prop intended for silhouetting in the background and puts it right in front of an HD G8F and then says, "wow, the texture quality on this prop is TERRIBLE."
There's a LOT more product coming out now. The more product that comes out, the more likely it is that there will be problems that slip through QC and the more likely it is that some of it will not be to everyone's taste. That said, something that I do think is happening is that products are being overpriced at first to compensate for DAZ's constant heavy discounting. In other words, an item built to a level that would have merited a $10 price tag several years ago is now coming out with a price tag of $18.00 whereas a more realistic adjustment for inflation would have been $12. That, in turn, leads to the impression that the PAs are slacking off when, if I understand it correctly, DAZ is the one setting the price ranges for most products.
...heh, I really don't notice a difference between a 10$ bottle of wine and one that costs 100$.
Now hand made ales, Single Malt Scot's Whiskey, Bourbon Whiskey, Rye Whiskey, that's different.
New products aren't really going up too much compared to older products, it's the whole store that's rising.
If you look at non-discounted pricing.
For example, Private May bundle was $39.95 when introduced in late 2015, then it began rising swiftly to
$69.95 by 2017, where it stands today. That's far more than inflation.
As far as quality, I'm not noticing much difference, but then I generally care about no more than "Good enough"
My problem is faults in products that are known, but never fixed.
Like the one artist who, in the forums, acknowledged that their product had a problem, but it wasn't worth their
time to fix it.
If I'm going to buy a product, I'd like to know that if there's a problem, the manufacturer will fix it. Real-world
or virtual, it doesn't matter.
unfortunately we cannot say what we don't like so too bad if PA's want customer feedback
If they're on the forum, you can always drop them a PM. Or if they're not on the forum and you have a very strong opinion on something that can improve their future products you can always put in a support ticket and perhaps they'll be able to pass the information along to the PA. :)
Personally, I don't mind PMs with critique as long as it's constructive. To me, 3D content creation is like any art form, if you're not working on growing and improving, then you're just stagnant and what's the point in that? lol I may not always agree with people on how to improve on something, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the feedback or their point of view. :) Like anything one does in life, it's always more interesting and fun if you're working on bettering yourself (at least to me, but not everyone is like that or enjoys working on things like that, and that's valid too). So keep in mind that some PAs may not like critique so it might be best to ask them in a PM first if possible.
mine was a more generalised comment not aimed at one PA I won't retype but said on many occasions by many users
Have they seen it? Maybe it's something they aren't aware of?
It's possible that they may know and just disagree, too. What people do and don't like can be pretty subjective. :)
Edit - Ohhh you said it's "not aimed at one PA". I read that as 'is aimed at one PA" - SORRY! :)
If a product does not perform as claimed, or is genuinely faulty in some way, then return it. Anything else just encourages more of the same.
Find a vendor who goes out of their way to make a good product? Then support them in the store, in the forums and in renders, here and anywhere else you post.
As to the o.p.. I do think quality is getting increasingly worse, compared with, say, ten years ago.
...I just received notice of a new product today from another vendor and couldn't help but notice the texturing which looked like something from the Poser 4 days. It isn't just here.
I'm not sure about quality, but lately I realized that a lot of older stuff beats the newer versions easily.
And I tend to use more G3 than G8 characters lately. Once you realize that dForce classic long hair works fine on G3 there aren't a lot of benefits left for G8.
@Odd_Platypus I agree with this, and as someone pointed out you can go into the folders and reduce the texture sizes manually 1 at a time (or someone mentioned a script that will cut all textures uniformly down by factor of 2)... The other option is "Scene Optimizer" that lets you automatically reduce texture sizes by various factors, and you can select which textures you want to reduce and how much to reduce them by, through a series of checkboxes within the program's window.
You say that non-discounted pricing is rising and illustrate it with a comparison between a heavily discounted introductory promo price and the base store price without any current offer.
Yes, I have both the free script, and the Scene Optimizer, but these still leave a lot of work to do in cases like the one I mentioned. You still need to go into every single surface and remove/resize all the maps that aren't needed at all on some surfaces, like the tiny cable that would look exactly the same with just the diffuse and bump maps - no need at all for the nine other maps that are wasting resources, even at reduced size.
The last three pro bundles seem rather rushed to me, and don’t show as much cohesion and attention to detail as previous bundles.
DAZ has always been the place to go for the best. I think the preception of quality being lower now is due to to several factors.
1. The quality at the "other shops" has improved.
2. The addition of lots of "new" artists have created a lot of diffent art styles (not really quality but unique styles, not everyone likes everything).
3. Rendering has been around for a long time now and people want cutting edge, but the changes in cutting edge are just not as great as they once were.
Though as a side note: I do wish the individual items had a star rating option or some sort of feedback option for the buyers.
Yes. I get surveys from everyone nowadays whose service I used. It's crazy. You can give the survey however many stars you think it's worth and rate it 'would you buy from this vendor again', 'would you recommend this vendor/clothing to others', quality of the product, ease of use, good insturctions for utilities, and so on. You can keep it confidential so only Daz can see it.. Are there experienced vendors who would be willing (with an incentive) to mentor these vendors so they can improve their overall overall skills?
I don't like having jackets that don't unzip. It was a problem a few yr ago, and someone made a morph so the jacket would not only unzip, it would also open. Why are users going to go lengths to do things to products to make them function like clothing? Also ppl have made morphs for other clothing that only had minimal (like ExpandAll) and made a few morphs for it.
When dforce came out, the products in the store looked like sacks. Just shapeless fabric hanging from the shoulders, or long dresses that puddled on the floor. I think they've gottem better now, and they have to have rigged morphs in dforce clothing which has really helped. But I'm finding some items say dforce, and I find myself looking for something that needs it. Maybe a wrinkle in the cuff of a pant,, or something else that could be done just with a morph.
And yes, the 'other' store has really great DS clothing and a big choice of dforce. And it is cutting edge IMO.
Only way I'd be interested in a star rating system was if they didn't show until there were at least 100, and ideally more.
The main problem with a rating system is that 95% of the customer complaints about a product are user error and not a fault of the product. So while ratings may work for books or furniture, it is entirely different for products that require a specific skillset to use.
I have to agree on this to some extent. There is a lot of great dforce product coming out at Rendo, but I think part of the advantage they have there is that a lot of those artists have been making products for Poser's cloth room for quite a while and therefore have a better idea of what will work upfront. The other thing is that I'm seeing a lot more additional morphs being included on d-force items there... things like hanger and dresing morphs, and I suspect that's partially because it's harder to demonstrate those here due to the more... er... prudish nature of the DAZ store.
Just tossing this out there on the topic of reviews. I'm sure opinions will vary. This is the internet, after all. :)
TL;DR: If there was a review system in place here, I would definitely use it.
I would love to see a star or ranking system for products here. Sure, set an arbitrary limit on the number of verified reviews before the ranking shows, only allow users that have purchased the product and not returned it to leave a review, or allow the vendor to opt in or out of the review widget when the product is launched, but I think customer feedback like this could be a valuable tool. And not everyone that buys will leave a review, so you have to be careful in how you interpret the data. When a site has this feature implemented, I generally take the time to read reviews before I purchase unless it's a vendor whose products I already know and trust. As a consumer, I'm smart enough to disregard the "great product!" reviews and the "never buy it!" reviews and look at the bigger picture.
A counter argument that I see a lot (and not just here) is "most negative reviews are user error." Ok. Maybe that's true, but if 20 users are all making the same error or have the same complaint, maybe there's something to it. I hate to say this, but selling products (selling anything, really) is a business and with that comes the understanding that buyers will potentially not understand the creator's vision. They will use it for things the vendor never considered. They will buy it and have no idea what they are doing and bitch about it not working. They will buy it without reading what it comes with or what it actually does or which figure it's made for. No one will read the manual but everyone will complain if it doesn't include one. They will have opinions on how they believe things should work, whether that was the "intended" use or not. They will have suggestions phrased in the form of a demand for improvements or future products or updates. And not all people have polite / diplomat-level communication skills and can or want to express themselves in a constructive fashion. For abusive reviews, have a "flag this post" function so human eyes can make an informed decision on what to do with it. There are ways to manage this sort of thing.
DAZ and / or the vendor can take data from reviews and improve training, testing, outreach, and product quality. But what if negative reviews negatively impact sales? Well... It hasn't stopped people from buying reasonably priced items at other sites (Amazon included), so I doubt it would stop people from buying things here if it's something they were really interested in. People that leave negative reviews are just as likely to log into the forum to leave the same complaint and / or contact DAZ and do likewise. I'm sure some of them even leave the same message in a PM to the vendor. The possibility of ranking or reviews scares or upsets a lot of vendors, but I firmly believe it's just another tool they could use to improve their products (much like critiques. Sometimes you get good ones; sometimes you get abusive ones... it's up to you to figure out which ones you want to listen to and accept the consequences of that choice).
...I'm the same when it comes to doors or windows that don't open.
I also don't like shirts, jackets, coats, etc that are half open and don't have a morph to button or zip up.