Clothing in DAZ is total BS
Angel
Posts: 1,204
I cannot believe how pathetically designed the AI is for clothing. My god the SIMS from way back in 2000 has a better match maker.
Why did they design such a flawed system?
Post edited by Angel on
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Can you please give us more detail about your problems
That's a hard question to answer - what problems are you running into? With more details we may be able to offer solutions or workarounds, or at least to explain why it's the lesser evil (assuming it is).
This is my problem
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So what clothing is it that you are using and which figures are you trying to fit them to.
Those are V4 & M5 Figures, I have M3-4-5 and V2-3-4-5 but my options for supports are only V4 and M4 and M5
The clothing is A3 and M3. I cannot fit them to my people without the support drop down menu. I dont understand why it has to be this complicated, nore do I understand why my drop down menu only has The girl, the kids, M4 M5 & V4 and I think Aliko or some crap
To apply A3 and M3 clothes to V4 you will need a clothes conversion program like CrossDresser or Wardrobe Wizard. To autofit them to Genesis you need to have the corresponding Gen 3 Shapes for Genesis. By default only Gen 4 clothing will be included in the Autofit options.
Gen 3 clothing fits the gen 3 figures
Gen 4 clothing fits the Gen 4 figures.
So an A3 clothing set will not fit V4 and an M3 clothing set will not fti M4, at least not without converting then using something like Cross dresser or wardrobe wizard.
Genesis is a little more flexible, in as much as gen 4 clothing can be fit to genesis I believe, but gen 3 clothing will not fit to the gen 5 figures without extra purchases.
You just explained exactly my complaint. its total bull crap.
No it is exactly how it has always been since Poser and then DS came out, each generation of figures has it's own clothing wardrobe, in much the same way as I assume you have a separate wardrobe to your spouse or partner and any children you may have also have their own wardrobes.
Your trying to justify ripping people off. I'm not stupid. I never said this is a new thing either. When did I say that?
Conforming clothing works my matching joint centres and having similar, but tweaked for shape differences, fall-offs. The only way to have it work is to keep the joint centres and falloffs the same is to keep the figures the same - no improvements possible. Most people want the benefits of improved rigging - and DAZ Studio does allow the use of fourth generation content, which accounts for the vast majority of legacy content, out of the box - it's only the less common third generation content that requires a paid-for add-on. If you have purchased content you cannot use from the DAZ 3D store, and do not wish to buy the shapes (assuming it's third generation content), you can of course request a refund.
I cant return the models, so I'm not going to request a refund. If I did that it would be a free product. I'm not going to do that. That is theft in my book. Where I come from that's frowned upon.
If you purchased it within 30 days DAZ 3D will refund it, trusting you to delete the files.
Not really.
It was from the dawn of Poser, well before Daz Studio or DAZ3D at all existed, that conforming clothes (so called because they've conformed to a figure) only fit a specific figure they were created for. Doesn't matter if this is Aiko 3 or Posette or Don or Michael 4 - Aiko 3 could wear only Aiko 3 clothes, Don could wear only Don clothes, and so on. It was like that long before DAZ3D as a business even existed. "One size" never fit all in conforming clothes.
To fit the same conforming clothes to different figures, a vendor should have do something called refit. It was a manual, very long and very tedious process, taking a lot of vendor's time and effort, usually for very little return or thanks and to a quite alot of wailing "why didn't you do refit?!". Vendors don't have to work for free (they are people who sometimes earn a living from doing Poser content and their time and effort aren't charity) and because of that refits were few and far away.
In times of third-forth generations of DAZ3D figures, came refit utilities, most knows of which are Wardrobe Wizard (currently in second version AFAIK) and Crossdresser (currently in forth version) which simplified the process quite a bit.The drawback of automated refitting was lower quality and most of customers for those programs were not vendors (because the result of conversion was not suitable for commercial release anyway) but usual users who could tinker with refits in their free time.
Automated converters allowed users to substantially increase the usability of the same outfit for newer/older figures, or refit outfits from supported figures for undersuppoted ones. Thus it wasn't ripoff but a direct opposite: a helper to allow people use their previously purchased outfits to fit to other characters. Yes, utilities were never free themselves (Wardrobe Wizard 2 cost about $60 on initial release, if I'm not mistaken), but people who made them also deserves some returns for their time and effort, as I believe.
Whatever you figures are, I'm pretty sure a Crossdresser has a license for it and you only need to purchase a license for figure you convert TO, i.e. Aiko 3, for example. Wardrobe Wizard 2 required both licenses From and To.
Genesis, being a triax figure, came with a free version of automated crossdresser utility, called Autofit, which allowed to fit some clothes to Genesis (only) from some other DAZ3D figures. Genesis can wear most of Generation 4 clothes, or Generation 3 with related Iconic Shapes morphs. Again, it allows people to extract much more user from previously owned content - a lot of people have huge Generation 3/Generation 4 libraries and thanks to the Autofit they don't have to toss them away or rely on a very slim chance that somebody would manually refit those huge libraries of clothes for Genesis. Backward comparability here, at my personal opinion, is amazing. Some outfits (like Lily dress) are released in V4 and Genesis version, because a lot of people still prefer V4 and V4 content works better with non-Genesis clothes refitters like Wardrobe Wizard and Crossdresser.
Currently, new Poser boasts the ability to make any figure wear any clothes but as I don't have it, I can't speculate on quality of such refits.
Now, there are also dynamic clothes and those are completely different kind of thing.
While DS dynamic clothes remain more or less figure-specific, due to technology used for it, Poser dynamics room with some tweaking could fit almost any dynamic clothes to almost any figure and even "clothify" conforming clothes with the same result. If you master Poser clothes room (from Poser 5 and up) you could make any figure more or less wear almost any clothes. Unlike DS dynamics, Poser dynamics are truly "one size fits all". Why DAZ3D never implemented such handy and useful mechanics was never explained, but I believe it is because Optitex (the high-quality engine for DS dynamics) was initially used to make real-life clothes and never meant to work on anything as flexible as Poser/DS figures. Stupid choice for DS? Maybe, but hardly malicious.
WARNING!!!!
The link provided by danwat801 leads to uncensored pornographic material!
What torqued him off...
.......Must have bought the "Emperor's Outfit " by H C Anderson.
Greetings,
Unfortunately I'm familiar with the underlying issue: Here's this concept (clothes) in the digital realm which is an analogue of something you know VERY well outside of that realm, and so you expect it to behave like the physical thing that you're used to. Clothing for a basically healthily formed human being of a particular gender is typically wearable by other basically healthily formed human beings of that gender, with some small variation. But clothing in the digital realm only exists because of some very clever workarounds and approximations which are hard to explain to an outsider.
The only reason it behaves anywhere near, or even presents itself as an analogue in the first place, is because of very hard work by some very smart people, and the acceptance of certain limitations. Unfortunately for folks not steeped in the details, 'vision of reality' and the 'actual reality' are too often disconnected, and even more so the more skeuomorphic your interface gets. (There are rumors that Apple will be backing away from skeuomorphism in their future UIs because of this problem.)
So...ultimately, DAZ clothing is not BS, it's the best they can do with the limitations of the system, and they try very hard to work around those limitations.
Or, to tl;dr and paraphrase, 'Do not attribute to malice, what can easily be explained by technical difficulty.'
-- Morgan
And just as clothing that fits one person perfectly won't fit someone with a different size or build, 3D clothing needs to be tailored to the figure -- in some ways more so than in real life, in other ways less.
Do like me...do your own cloth modelling, that's simple.
Now I'm going to have to go and look that up....
Back to the topic though:
I used to feel the same way with clothing.. But I like how the auto fit tool came out, even though it only goes back to generation 4 products, I hope genesis continues the path it is taking, where clothing is more universal.
Don't the classic morphs for genesis such as the packages that include v3, m3, a3, f3, etc. allow you to use your classic clothing once more?
Now I'm going to have to go and look that up....
Back to the topic though:
I used to feel the same way with clothing.. But I like how the auto fit tool came out, even though it only goes back to generation 4 products, I hope genesis continues the path it is taking, where clothing is more universal.
Don't the classic morphs for genesis such as the packages that include v3, m3, a3, f3, etc. allow you to use your classic clothing once more?
If you buy the Iconic Shapes for Genesis, a clone is supplied fot the Autofit plugin for each one. So, yes, if you have the shapes for V3, A3 etc, then you can Autofit clothing from these older figures.
and except for shoes the V3 one works pretty well with V2 clothing esp if you add a smoothing modifier.
actually using the transfer tool I can dress Genesis in just about anything!
And, just as one person can't wear clothes from Abercrombie and Fitch because they're larger than a female size 10...
*Ahem*
What he said. Also, Silver. That's pretty much the way to go to guarantee what you want, and Ghastly and other folks who do it get just as much help here as those looking to buy and sell. At least consider it. ;)
Not just simple, it's awesome and for the most part you can do it all for free.
Can you point me to a (hopefully very basic) tutorial or something where I can begin to learn how to do this? There are a lot of wardrobe items I'd like to make, mostly because I can't find them already made. I'd buy some of it if it were available, but the idea of making it sounds groovy!
It seems 90% of what's out there (for sale or freebies, DAZ website & all the others I've seen) is for women. Most of my own stuff involves male figures, and they're not priests, princes, knights, gladiators, superheroes, soldiers, or underwear models, just regular guys in need of regular clothes (though I'd love to do some styles from the 1970s).
Now I'm going to have to go and look that up....
Back to the topic though:
I used to feel the same way with clothing.. But I like how the auto fit tool came out, even though it only goes back to generation 4 products, I hope genesis continues the path it is taking, where clothing is more universal.
Don't the classic morphs for genesis such as the packages that include v3, m3, a3, f3, etc. allow you to use your classic clothing once more?
I'm a total amateur at this, and I've found no trouble at all fitting V3 & M3 clothing (and newer) to Genesis. It works really well, and it's kinda fun to watch!
My biggest problem with this is that I haven't kept good track of which models the clothing was originally supposed to fit, and you need to know that for the fitting tool to work. Sometimes I have to un-fit and re-fit an item, just going down the list until I find the original model that works. (That's mostly because I'm an easily-excited noob who sometimes goes around the web collecting freebies just because they're there, and not being very organized about it.)
Can you point me to a (hopefully very basic) tutorial or something where I can begin to learn how to do this? There are a lot of wardrobe items I'd like to make, mostly because I can't find them already made. I'd buy some of it if it were available, but the idea of making it sounds groovy!
It seems 90% of what's out there (for sale or freebies, DAZ website & all the others I've seen) is for women. Most of my own stuff involves male figures, and they're not priests, princes, knights, gladiators, superheroes, soldiers, or underwear models, just regular guys in need of regular clothes (though I'd love to do some styles from the 1970s).
Patience has a free tutorial for modeling clothes starting in Hexagon on her Deviantart: http://patience55anotherone.deviantart.com/art/I-m-sure-this-was-important-373420118
This older one of mine isn't a bad start for rigging, though it's very elementary: http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=3251538
Patience has a free tutorial for modeling clothes starting in Hexagon on her Deviantart: http://patience55anotherone.deviantart.com/art/I-m-sure-this-was-important-373420118
This older one of mine isn't a bad start for rigging, though it's very elementary: http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=3251538
Very elementary is good! Thanks!
I'm a total amateur at this, and I've found no trouble at all fitting V3 & M3 clothing (and newer) to Genesis. It works really well, and it's kinda fun to watch!
My biggest problem with this is that I haven't kept good track of which models the clothing was originally supposed to fit, and you need to know that for the fitting tool to work. Sometimes I have to un-fit and re-fit an item, just going down the list until I find the original model that works. (That's mostly because I'm an easily-excited noob who sometimes goes around the web collecting freebies just because they're there, and not being very organized about it.)
Same here. I have been using Studio since inception, and Poser before, but when it comes to creating my own clothes, props, figures, I am totally new to this. It would be great if it was "simple" but I have yet to find a tutorial written on a new-to-the-game level.
I need a "press this, click that, then hit ok" style tutorial for these things as I have no access to outside (books, classes, etc) material. I haven't looked at the referenced tutorials yet, so I hope they are as good as that, because I really want to get into this, very soon.
And, like ChiMakwa, I too have an extensive library to which I am clueless as to who the original figure was. It would be nice if someone could link us to a database, or something, that would say Dress XYZ was designed for Model ABC. A perfect example would be:
Agila — This is a style set for a number of otherwise unrelated clothes. But if you have this in your folder of saved stuff from whenever, the filename is simply Agila, and the new Product Library gives you a quaint sim-life description of the person wearing the clothes, but not any information on the model. Sure, you can click through link after link and finally piece together all the pertinent details:
The model is V4
The required clothes for this style are Vandra for V4 and the V4 Morphing Cloak and Cape as well as the V4 Hooded Cloak.
But if there was one place all this information could be found (like in the Product Library) it would be very helpful.
As for the DS Clothes being BS, I am in agreement with everyone else here. That sentiment is BS. If you have the figures and the Genesis morphs, for the preGenesis figures, Your clothing library is just that much more useful! And that's no BS.
Now I'm going to have to go and look that up....
Back to the topic though:
I used to feel the same way with clothing.. But I like how the auto fit tool came out, even though it only goes back to generation 4 products, I hope genesis continues the path it is taking, where clothing is more universal.
Don't the classic morphs for genesis such as the packages that include v3, m3, a3, f3, etc. allow you to use your classic clothing once more?
I recently picked up the "iconic shapes" bundle as well as GenX with the M4 and V4 shapes. I can say the results with Genesis are pretty amazing, essentially the results the original poster was hoping for. His problem, though, is apparently that you have to pay extra for this. For me, it was worth the ten bucks to have access to all of my legacy content.