FLUIDOS plugin for Carrara -- version 1.4 update

PhilW · January 2018

Here are the results that I get with that scene.

Frame 0 - 0 seconds

Frame 24 - 1 second

Frame 72 - 3 seconds

Frame 96 - 4 seconds

Frame 168 - 7 seconds

Dartanbeck · January 2018

I appreciate this, Phil, thanks! :)

I'm running it now without the Diffuse particles and Cell size at 0.4, just to see if it blows apart or not.

Again... much appreciated. Above and beyond!

Dartanbeck · January 2018

Bummer. Same thing occurred. It rises instead of falls (Fluid Mass).

Dartanbeck · January 2018

At least now I know it isn't just me ;)

Dartanbeck · January 2018

PhilW said:

Here are the results that I get with that scene.

Wow, nice! The same scene for me, the fluid begins to blast apart immediately in the first frame past 0. It continues to blast apart as it rises upwards and splatters against the closest (x) vertical boundary and the ceiling. It seems to lose most of it mass by the end with a thin film of splats all over those two planes.

PhilW · January 2018

That's a job for Alberto then rather than any help that I can offer I'm afraid.

Dartanbeck · January 2018

PhilW said:

That's a job for Alberto then rather than any help that I can offer I'm afraid.

Agreed. I'll try it on this laptop too... but only as a test. This thing would blow up if I used it for that very often. LOL

Alberto · January 2018

Dartanbeck said:

Not sure what's going on. I've tried this many simple ways - I must just be doing something wrong... missing a step... perhaps this can help someone see what I'm doing wrong.

At first I thought that, since the instructions say 24 FPS, maybe it doesn't work well with 30. So I tried with 24 and my GPU readings during the simulation were much smoother, but the same issue occurs.

Here's what I've been doing:

New Empty Scene (I was using my default start scene and thought maybe something in there was messing with Fluidos physics)

Insert > Fluid Domain (10' x 10' x 10')

Center Fluid Domain (it loads with the hotspot in the bottom back right corner, so 0x, 0y centers it)

Insert > Cube and resize to 10' x 10' x 2' (Z)

Cube is centered, I just set Z to 1.0' to drop it to the floor

Insert Sphere and scaled it down in each axis to 1.75'

Position Sphere so it is centered and almost completely submerged into the Cube

Set timeline to end (frame 24, 1 second) and lift the sphere slightly - about half submerged into the cube

Parent both Cube and Sphere to the Fluid Domain, one at a time

Fluid Domain Properties (Effects Tab)

# Frames = 24

FPS = 24

Cell Size = 0.50

All else is left default

Solid or Fluid Properties for the Cube (Effects Tab)

☑ this is a Fluid Mass

All else default

Solid or Fluid Properties for the Sphere (Effects Tab)

All default

To experiment, I also tried ☑ Add Body Force = 0.0

On with the Simulation

Select Fluid Domain and Ctrl + Shift + F

Upon completion, Insert > Fluid Domain (got the same results also trying a primitive cube)

New Fluid Domain - send to exact position of the simulated Fluid Domain

New Fluid Domain - Add FluidS Modifier

New Fluid Domain - At the end of the timeline, set completion to 100

New Fluid Domain - At beginning of the timeline, set to ☑ Enabled

This simulation doesn't take very long. The results are not at all what I expected. To try and correct this behavior, I've tried the same as above with a larger Fluid Domain and Fluid Mass, then with a smaller Cell Size and again with an even smaller Cell Size (defaullt 0.125) as well as with a much smaller Sphere within the much larger (20' x 20') Fluid Domain and Fluid Mass

The results are consistently like this, even when I tried starting with the Sphere starting above the mass (but within the Fluid Domain influence) and animating it to barely touch the fluid mass. One time I forgot to animate the Sphere, so it never touched the Fluid Mass, and I still got the same result.

I just installed the latest driver for my video card last night (AMD Radeon R7)

Dart, you're doing magic !

Did you try another scene previously, e.g., the example described in the manual?

Are the velocity (x, y and z) of mass fluid set to 0?

Let me think how to explore your problem.

DUDU said:

In this case, you must reverse your computer (the bottom upwards), and de water will be in the right way!

I was going to suggest him the same.

Imago · January 2018

Dart, I think you need to update your GPU drivers.

If you already did this and stili doesn't work, try totally wiping them. There is a tool from guru3d site, but can't remeber its name.... After wiping reinstall all and it should work!

Dartanbeck · January 2018

Imago said:

Dart, I think you need to update your GPU drivers.

If you already did this and stili doesn't work, try totally wiping them. There is a tool from guru3d site, but can't remeber its name.... After wiping reinstall all and it should work!

Cool thanks.

In my insomnia over this, I went back and tried it reversing the z force to 32 (instead of -32) - same thing. It seems to do the same thing no matter what. Like I said earlier, I tried it without any solid object, just the fluid mass and domain... same result.

Thanks for the tip towards guru3d! I was hoping to find something like that. The Radeon tool supposed did a fresh install - wiping my old before installing the new.

3drendero · January 2018

0oseven said:

3drendero said:

I just tested Fluidos on my PC with only an older Intel CPU, no graphics card. Just the shitty integrated Intel crap graphics that does NOT support OpenCL at all.

Without the Intel OpenCL CPU drivers; FAIL. Fluidos gets stuck at 2%, does nothing else, no CPU or HDD load, no error code.
With the Intel OpenCL CPU drivers: PASS. Fluidos works.
Used these Intel OpenCL CPU runtime drivers: https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/opencl-drivers#latest_CPU_runtime

Conclusion: Fluidos requires a working OpenCL driver installation, either GPU och CPU OpenCL works.
Tools for testing if OpenCL works:
GPU Caps: http://www.ozone3d.net/gpu_caps_viewer/
LuxMark 3.1: http://www.luxrender.net/wiki/LuxMark#Binaries

Also laptops with both Intel and NVIDIA graphics enabled, should disable the Intel graphics, unless battery time in 2D is critical.
Cannot run several other 3D apps due to incompatibilitites between Intel/NVIDIA, even the frickin NVIDIA control panel crashes on my laptop.

As suggested I ran the ozone3d -viewer .Attached images show openCL results which I admit to having no real idea how to interpret . Hopefully image detail is good enough for you to see results, Image 1 is Nvidea and Image 2 is Intel.

You say to disable Intel graphics. I only know how to do this via the Nvidea control panel.ie make Nvidea the default graphics in the global setting. Is there another way ? And of course I have set Carrara to run with Nvidea Graphics Card

Check your manual on how to access BIOS and change the graphics setting to "Descrete graphics", that means only the NVIDIA graphics will be used.
If you never accessed the BIOS before, it may look scary, try to find some youtube videos showing the BIOS with your particular model, to build some curage...

If BIOS still is too scary:
I also see is that the Intel graphics driver is one year old and has an old OpenCL driver (although is seems to be working), get the latest Intel graphics driver from the Intel web site.
Since Intel is busy patching security holes everywhere, there automatic driver download utility is offline and you need to find the right driver yourself.
Again a little complicated, you need to know the model name of the GPU and what "CPU generation of the Core platform" it is, to select the right driver on the intel site: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/80939/Graphics-Drivers

The Core platform names: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core

--------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe something for Alberto, 007 has 2 sets of active OpenCL drivers (Intel and NVIDIA) and it seems that the Intel GPU drivers are listed as the first.
Maybe that is one of the problems.

Imago · January 2018

Dartanbeck said:

Imago said:

Dart, I think you need to update your GPU drivers.

If you already did this and stili doesn't work, try totally wiping them. There is a tool from guru3d site, but can't remeber its name.... After wiping reinstall all and it should work!

Cool thanks.

In my insomnia over this, I went back and tried it reversing the z force to 32 (instead of -32) - same thing. It seems to do the same thing no matter what. Like I said earlier, I tried it without any solid object, just the fluid mass and domain... same result.

Thanks for the tip towards guru3d! I was hoping to find something like that. The Radeon tool supposed did a fresh install - wiping my old before installing the new.

Remembered its name: Driver Sweeper!
Let us know if it works.

For me, I finally managed to have the right setting for my purpose. Now I just have to wait (and hope it's possible) to have the simulation work with parented stuff!

Dartanbeck · January 2018

Argh... Bummer.

I had high hope too :(

In this image (left), the little sphere primitive is the Fluid Mass, the outer bounding box is the Fluid Domain and their respective Effect tray settings to the right of them.

On the right are two screen shots of frames 0 and 14 of the simulated results. I show frame 14 instead of 24 because frame 24 doesn't have much to show. A couple little blobs. The fluid goes up and drips backwards.

Imago · January 2018

Dart, maybe is a big subproduct of bovine digestion... But did your tried to reset Carrara's options?

I once solved doing it and manually setting all again.

Also, try to Rick ( or untick) the multicore option.

Maybe it could start working properly!

Dartanbeck · January 2018

Imago said:

Dart, maybe is a big subproduct of bovine digestion...

LOL!!!

I took some of my third party extensions out (into a temp folder for reinastalling later), I did go through my preferences looking for odd things, but havn't reset. I'll try the multi-core thing. If that doesn't work I'll try reset.

This is the same machine that was having a hard time running Philemo's bridge for VWD. He eventually sent me a version that works on my machine (Win 7 64 bit)

3DMD · January 2018

Dartanbeck said:

I can confirm that the plugin does not work on my computer.

I ran the basic simulation in PhilW's first tutorial video and, instead of the fluid mass falling into the domain, it blows apart from within somehow. I even tried putting a -32 force on the fluid mass and it didn't pay any attention to that either.

I downloaded the plugin again and reinstalled everything, emptied the temp for Carrara and for the plugin... it just doesn't work :(

Dartanbeck, I have two laptops, pruchased within the last year, both Dell. The Inspiron 15 7000 series, with Intel graphics will not animiate the Fluidos simluation, same frustrations your're having. I take the same scene and run it on my Dell Inspirion 15 7000 GAMING series with the Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 4GB, otherwise pretty much idential app setup and it runs great, every time. I think it's the graphics card. In fact I bought the one with Nvidia becuase my new EEG software will not run on the other one. I think Nvidia GTX series with at least 2GB memory may do it.

Dartanbeck · January 2018

It probably is my GPU. Changing that out will have to wait. I can just use the tricks I've been planning on using before. No biggie.

Imago · January 2018

Dart... Another bovine stuff... But this time even bigger, since the plugin seems to work only with AMD or NVidia... But a try doesn't hurt!

If you own one of those Intel CPUs that have an integrated GPU (Like the i7 family) you could try disabling temporarily the main GPU and use the GPU inside the processor. Normally isn't nothing special but I guess even those "emergency GPU" could handle a small scene. I used Carrara and DAZ in even less powerful GPU in the past!

If you get an error when starting the simulation, well, nothing to do... But if it starts working you can see if it behave the same way as with the main GPU.

If the fluids starts to flow, the probleme isn't the GPU.

If the fluids behave the right way, just open Amazon and buy a new GPU, opposite of the one you own.

Dartanbeck · January 2018

Nah, I built my machine without an integrated gpu on the motherboard.

This laptop has an intgrated Radeon, but I don't want to do sims on this pile o' junk

Dartanbeck · January 2018

I'm going to try it on this laptop though... just for kicks.

Imago · January 2018

Dartanbeck said:

Nah, I built my machine without an integrated gpu on the motherboard.

This laptop has an intgrated Radeon, but I don't want to do sims on this pile o' junk

Ah, you got a laptop...

Dartanbeck · January 2018

Actually, I call it a craptop! LOL

The one I couldn't get Fluidos working on is a home-built PC: AMD FX-8120 Zambezi 8-core cpu, 16GB RAM

I built it back in 2012. I know it's not a big boy on the block, but I really love how it works Carrara and everything else I run on it - well, shy of some plugins.

When I built it, I wasn't entirely concerned with having snappy game GPU performance, and I'm an nVidia fan, so I got a Fermi GT 520, which had a great price and some cuda cores and good reviews for OpenGL capabilities.

When that thing finally fried, instead of ordering a new card I went shopping at the closest big(ish) city. The store didn't have the GTX 750 or 780 or whatever I was looking for, but the XFX double dispersion R7 Radeon they had was supposed to be the ATI equivalent/competition of the card I was looking for, so I thought I'd give it a go.

It does some really decent OpenGL for me with Carrara. Usually whenever I bought a new nVidia there was always some sort of Wow factor. I didn't have that with this card except looking at the card itself, with its two 120mm fans and huge copper heat sink tubes nicely crafted around the thing. It's a big, beautiful beast of a card. Works great (except for nVidia-only stuff) but never really had that new, upgraded GPU Wow factor.

Imago · January 2018

I divorced from AMD and ATI long ago... Now I'm happily married with Intel and NVidia. There's is no comparison on how smooth things goes now! And now I'm waitig for the price to drop down (Bitcoin miner keeps making the price high!) for a 1070 Ti Mini. As I can see, it's truly a monster!

And your Craptop can't be more crappy than my old ones, LOL!
Anyway, you did the tests on that bad laptop? It worked?

Dartanbeck · January 2018

Imago said:

Anyway, you did the tests on that bad laptop? It worked?

No man... I'm avoiding that like I'm avoiding pulling my own wisdom teeth.

It'll go like this: Set cell size to 5 ft (not 0.5, mind you) and the FPS to 12 and run for 6 frames. Run it and walk away for a week or two. Junk, I tell you!

Imago said:

I divorced from AMD and ATI long ago... Now I'm happily married with Intel and NVidia.

I stepped away from AMD cpus to build a Core2Duo machine when they were new. I'm glad to be back with AMD. Nothing against Intel, not in the slightest. I just love my Zambezi for now and will likely love my Ryzen or Epyc when the time comes to build something new.

But I have a feeling that I'll be sticking with nVidia from my next card on. We'll see, I guess.

Imago · January 2018

Dartanbeck said:
It'll go like this: Set cell size to 5 ft (not 0.5, mind you) and the FPS to 12 and run for 6 frames. Run it and walk away for a week or two. Junk, I tell you!

Then there is only one last hope to discover what could be wrong: Friendship!

Just locate a friend who, promising him a big crate of beers or a double size pizza, will lend you a PC powerful enough to test that stuff.
Carrara will be freshly installed (so no hidden junk), in a totally diferent rig (note all differences and similarities with your own) and probably even in a different OS (if the OS is the same, check what is installed, where is installed and which updates has been done.)

This should give you some hint of what could be wrong in your rig or setup.

With this, I'm out of ideas... Beside the old, classic total format. Brutal but often the only solution.

Dartanbeck · January 2018

I already did that. This forum, this thread! I've at least seen how elegant the system is to work with and how powerful it can be. I'll get mine working some day.

Imago · January 2018

Dartanbeck said:

I already did that. This forum, this thread! I've at least seen how elegant the system is to work with and how powerful it can be. I'll get mine working some day.

So someone is already digesting tha pizza and got drunk with that beer!
Anyway, don't give up, keep trying. By personal experience you can learn more from failures than from successes! And, also in my experience, the bigger problems are caused by the tinyest issue... so just keep trying and the soution will popup by itself!

Back to the main "concept" of the thread, I got a techical question: How can I have more "persistent" particles? When doing my tests I see that the particles tends to become smaller and smaller as soon they hit a surface, scattering around. I would like to have puddles and stains.

3DAGE · January 2018

Imago :)

the more fluid you have, the more it will collect together,. if you have only a little fluid it will spatter into droplets naturally ,..as fluid does.

more fluid (bigger source size,. or longer simulation time)

You could also use forces (point force) to pool the fluid onto a puddle-ish blob, but that may look unnatural.

a couple more test things

Dartanbeck · January 2018

I believe that's where the forces come into play, and it will certainly require some trial and error unless someone already doing that stuff chimes in.

Solid Force (effects tab) checked and the Add Body Force is how we set the solid to either attract or repel the fluid. I was planning on experimenting with that once I got used to running the plugin.

For the fluid mass, itself, perhaps either try running a little more force in the Z axis of the Fluid Domain for more powerful settling effect, or perhaps try adding some Z force to the Fluid Mass - both are other experiments I wanted to play with.

But I think it's the Add Body Force that will get fluid that lands on the object to stick to the subject. I learned that from the (awesome) manual.

Imago · January 2018

To attract the fluid I have to use positive or negative values?

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FLUIDOS plugin for Carrara -- version 1.4 update

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