Olympia 8

nicstt · July 2017

Ildanach said:

A few really quick and rough tests with Olypmia 8's skin out of the box and a few different light settings. Some light setups have pretty nice results, better than others.

I haven't made any changes to the skin shader in these. Planning on testing a few tweaks at some point. Head shape is Olympia 8 out of the box, but I reduced the size of her lips (I do this with almost every figure).

Indeed, although I think I've done it for every figure at least a little and usually more. You shots do more for the figure than the promos tbh.

I think my main objection to O8 is she is too shiny.

nicstt · July 2017

nonesuch00 said:

I'm really surprised to hear people claiming the G8 shader look plastic when they don't. People have oily skin and sweaty skin and it gets shiney. No reapplying pancake makeup every 5 minutes to look perfect.

It does look shiny, but for a reason, oil, sweat as you say, but when it is so uniform it looks like a coating of oil.

Daywalker Designs · July 2017

EcVh0 said:

daywalker03 said:

Gr00vus said:

D.Robinson said:

My issue with Olympia 8, well really all of the 8 toons so far is the lackluster skin shaders, they all look like wax figures with the exception of a couple. It seems with each new generation the skin textures and shaders get worse, not better. Which is why there are a lot of content creators redoing skin shader kits all over the place. They were not happy, and we arent happy :p

I've been really unimpressed with the G8 shaders so far as well. Very plastic looking, regardless of the lighting. It's disappointing given how much others have done to achieve excellent skin shaders within DAZ Studio that these products can't match that level of quality. I only buy character sets for the skins/maps. The poor rendering results are keeping me from buying the G8 stuff for now. The only reason I keep coming back to this thread hoping someone else has come up with better shaders for O8 and rendered them, to give me some indication if the maps are any good. So far, not so good.

I think the problem is that most folks are so used to seeing all the details in the skin from the equivilant of six feet away that they forget that in reality, you don't see them all on another person until you get closer. The shaders for V8 and O8 recreate that look, in my opinion.

Agreed. Most of the G3 shaders (even including the popular ones) tend to exaggerate micro details to make them look realistic, but it is only more realistic than the 3DL renders. The only thing you can see from 6 feet is change in skin tone and specularity on the skin. Turning the micro skin details up only make it looks cakey and unrealistic/leather. And of course they only work in certain light conditions which created this massive Iray light set genre

My bet is they took their reference from the amazing realistic 3D portraits from great artists using other 3D programs like blender and maya/zbrush/3ds, but the thing is they are all shot from barely half a feet away and most of them have skin details painted on the skin than the map

Ideally, a character should not have a skin texture/shader set that looks identical under every lighting condition; that's exactly the opposite of how people look in real life.

mrinal said:

Unfortunately, most of the renders I have seen so far for O8 are its use as real-world characters, which it should not be, imo. Not that I mean it should not portrayed as a real-world character but the genre defining characteristics for Olympia seem pretty muted to me. If I ever wanted Olympia with real-world vibes there's always the option to dial the character morph at appropriate strength. At 100% strength I expect a pure fantasy Greek goddess, nothing less; which unfortunately it doesn't deliver, again imo. There are other real-world character series - Karen, Eva, Genevieve etc. On the other hand Olympia, Lilith, Arabelle are fantasy characters and should be portrayed as such. When I compose a fantasy character and dial in Olympia morphs I expect to get that fantasy Greek goddess look which was so evident with O7. May be thats because of the way she was portrayed in earlier generations. But coming from past generations, whenever I think of Olympia, there an associated impression of her which is hard to ignore. When other gen 8 real-world characters get released, I anticipate it would be difficult for O8 to stand on her own.

Some may argue that it is possible to get the desired looks by applying enough morphs, but then whats the point of spending $16 for an entire character? Or how different does O8 get from any other character released by the PAs which are available for far less?

I disagree, actually. I believe if you're using Iray, you should try to make a character believeable, even if there is no way you would ever actually encounter something like it in the real world, like an Orc or similar creature.

Ildanach said:

A few really quick and rough tests with Olypmia 8's skin out of the box and a few different light settings. Some light setups have pretty nice results, better than others.

I haven't made any changes to the skin shader in these. Planning on testing a few tweaks at some point. Head shape is Olympia 8 out of the box, but I reduced the size of her lips (I do this with almost every figure).

A beautiful example of realism at work; thanks for posting this.

nonesuch00 · July 2017

nicstt said:

nonesuch00 said:

I'm really surprised to hear people claiming the G8 shader look plastic when they don't. People have oily skin and sweaty skin and it gets shiney. No reapplying pancake makeup every 5 minutes to look perfect.

It does look shiny, but for a reason, oil, sweat as you say, but when it is so uniform it looks like a coating of oil.

Doesn't look so uniform to me and that was one of the major improvements in G8 that I nticed. When I read the complaint or two on her plastic look I checked again and it's about what you'd expect for adult female human skin.

That said I wish there was controls that worked like morphs that went from pale to dark, from dry to sweaty, from dry to oily, and from smooth to pimply and big pored. It's be very useful in animation too.

JamesJAB · July 2017

Here's a render of Olympia 8 that i did on wear the wrong uniform to work day. All of the lighting in this scene is emmissive shaders.

ALLIEKATBLUE · July 2017

Ok, so I finally got Olympia 8. While not my favorite, she does have potential. The straight base figure has some flaws that are just my personal preferences. I find her head too small for her body and she is overly muscled. That could be the look that this figure is supposed to represent but I prefer more petite ladies. Her strong body type does make for a figure that is more substantial in contrast to the waifish models that proliferate the the Daz scene, so I really appreciate her in my gene pool.

This is the straight Olympia render. Not digging the base skin and again her head is small to me and her eyes are a little beady.

Here is a more tweaked version. I enlarged her head and scaled her body down so she has less muscles but I still do like the definition. I think she has on Freja's Millie skin her.

This lady took all day. This one is highly customized with about 80% Olympia and another head morph from a V4 figure, converted by GenX to G3 then brought over to G8. The skin is Jael for G3 from Renderosity. I didn't use any of that figures makeup because I was so glad to discover that G8 can wear all the Extreme Closeup LIE makeup I have in my library, so just a little liner and nude glossy lip. I nipped in her waist a bit and reduced her breast size. I also shortened her torso a bit as well.

Overall, O8 has potential. I usually don't use the base characters as is anyway so the things that I don't like about her can be fixed by adding and subtracting. I do like her body and her overall face is mature but not "old". If I want to make her more youthful, I can dial in a younger head.

EcVh0 · July 2017

daywalker03 said:

EcVh0 said:

daywalker03 said:

Gr00vus said:

D.Robinson said:

My issue with Olympia 8, well really all of the 8 toons so far is the lackluster skin shaders, they all look like wax figures with the exception of a couple. It seems with each new generation the skin textures and shaders get worse, not better. Which is why there are a lot of content creators redoing skin shader kits all over the place. They were not happy, and we arent happy :p

I've been really unimpressed with the G8 shaders so far as well. Very plastic looking, regardless of the lighting. It's disappointing given how much others have done to achieve excellent skin shaders within DAZ Studio that these products can't match that level of quality. I only buy character sets for the skins/maps. The poor rendering results are keeping me from buying the G8 stuff for now. The only reason I keep coming back to this thread hoping someone else has come up with better shaders for O8 and rendered them, to give me some indication if the maps are any good. So far, not so good.

I think the problem is that most folks are so used to seeing all the details in the skin from the equivilant of six feet away that they forget that in reality, you don't see them all on another person until you get closer. The shaders for V8 and O8 recreate that look, in my opinion.

Agreed. Most of the G3 shaders (even including the popular ones) tend to exaggerate micro details to make them look realistic, but it is only more realistic than the 3DL renders. The only thing you can see from 6 feet is change in skin tone and specularity on the skin. Turning the micro skin details up only make it looks cakey and unrealistic/leather. And of course they only work in certain light conditions which created this massive Iray light set genre

My bet is they took their reference from the amazing realistic 3D portraits from great artists using other 3D programs like blender and maya/zbrush/3ds, but the thing is they are all shot from barely half a feet away and most of them have skin details painted on the skin than the map

Ideally, a character should not have a skin texture/shader set that looks identical under every lighting condition; that's exactly the opposite of how people look in real life.

That's correct, it is in fact nearly impossible to create a shader that will look "exactly the same" under every lighting conditions, but it should have the same level of "realism" under every lighting conditions. The problem with most shader right now, is that it works absolutely amazing under one lighting condition - which is shown in promo, and does not in every others, starting off with the sun-sky environment

3Diva · July 2017

Yeah, I the Genesis 8 characters seem to require a bit more thought to lighting and render settings than the previous generations - quite a bit like real life skin. Different lighting and render settings can make a pretty big difference. The first image is Victoria 8's texture with the default lighting and render settings. They all have the same textures and the same skin texture settings, the only thing I changed was the lighting and render settings.

ALLIEKATBLUE · July 2017

I almost never think to use the base texture except exept maybe in the case of G8, the eyes because sometimes a can't get the G3 eyes to behave right.I think Monique 7 base was the most realistic, but a little too much dark circles and bags around the eyes. @divamakeup, I like the softness of the last render the best and the next to last render shows more color contrast in the skin detail.

Serene Night · July 2017

I do a lot of postwork, so as long as there is something there to work with, I'm happy. I actually really like Olympia's skin and shape. Great charecter. It is easier to tweak darker skins to be however I want, but harder to tweak lighter skins.

nonesuch00 · July 2017

divamakeup said:

Yeah, I the Genesis 8 characters seem to require a bit more thought to lighting and render settings than the previous generations - quite a bit like real life skin. Different lighting and render settings can make a pretty big difference. The first image is Victoria 8's texture with the default lighting and render settings. They all have the same textures and the same skin texture settings, the only thing I changed was the lighting and render settings.

Those all look great but too bad there is no evironmental context to give the viewer an ideal where she is at and what time of day and what day of the year it is.

RCDeschene · July 2017

Has anyone done a side-by-side Victoria 8 & Olympia 8 yet?

RCDeschene · July 2017

Has anyone done a side-by-side Victoria 8 & Olympia 8 yet?

Daywalker Designs · July 2017

RCDeschene said:

Has anyone done a side-by-side Victoria 8 & Olympia 8 yet?

Yes, there is one a couple pages back in this thread; there is also a close-up of their faces in this thread.

ANGELREAPER1972 · July 2017

The Olympia 8s Verses The Victoria 8s

all three ladies from the Olympia 8 Pro Bundle playing touch football and against the three ladies from the Victoria 8 Pro Bundle with the base Genesis 3 Female from starter essentials cheering them on

https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/407081

Llynara · July 2017

@angelreaper1972 Love you renders! They are creative and fun!

3Diva · July 2017

ANGELREAPER1972 said:

The Olympia 8s Verses The Victoria 8s

all three ladies from the Olympia 8 Pro Bundle playing touch football and against the three ladies from the Victoria 8 Pro Bundle with the base Genesis 3 Female from starter essentials cheering them on

https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/407081

hahah That is fantastic! :D

3Diva · July 2017

nonesuch00 said:

divamakeup said:

Yeah, I the Genesis 8 characters seem to require a bit more thought to lighting and render settings than the previous generations - quite a bit like real life skin. Different lighting and render settings can make a pretty big difference. The first image is Victoria 8's texture with the default lighting and render settings. They all have the same textures and the same skin texture settings, the only thing I changed was the lighting and render settings.

Those all look great but too bad there is no evironmental context to give the viewer an ideal where she is at and what time of day and what day of the year it is.

Let me know which one you liked and I'll see if I can recreate it and share the settings.

The point I tried to get across with the post was to just play around with the render settings and the lighting until you find the settings that suit your tastes and save the settings. :)

I'd be happy to share my settings with you though, let me know which one you liked and I'll see if I can remember the settings for it and share them with you.

nicstt · July 2017

ANGELREAPER1972 said:

The Olympia 8s Verses The Victoria 8s

all three ladies from the Olympia 8 Pro Bundle playing touch football and against the three ladies from the Victoria 8 Pro Bundle with the base Genesis 3 Female from starter essentials cheering them on

https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/407081

Hmmm, seriously, there would be way more spectators (and probably the majority men).

Great job on the poses.

nonesuch00 · July 2017

divamakeup said:

nonesuch00 said:

divamakeup said:

Yeah, I the Genesis 8 characters seem to require a bit more thought to lighting and render settings than the previous generations - quite a bit like real life skin. Different lighting and render settings can make a pretty big difference. The first image is Victoria 8's texture with the default lighting and render settings. They all have the same textures and the same skin texture settings, the only thing I changed was the lighting and render settings.

Those all look great but too bad there is no evironmental context to give the viewer an ideal where she is at and what time of day and what day of the year it is.

Let me know which one you liked and I'll see if I can recreate it and share the settings.

The point I tried to get across with the post was to just play around with the render settings and the lighting until you find the settings that suit your tastes and save the settings. :)

I'd be happy to share my settings with you though, let me know which one you liked and I'll see if I can remember the settings for it and share them with you.

I like the render 1 up from the bottom the best although they are all good in proper environmental context.

3Diva · July 2017

nonesuch00 said:

divamakeup said:

nonesuch00 said:

divamakeup said:

Yeah, I the Genesis 8 characters seem to require a bit more thought to lighting and render settings than the previous generations - quite a bit like real life skin. Different lighting and render settings can make a pretty big difference. The first image is Victoria 8's texture with the default lighting and render settings. They all have the same textures and the same skin texture settings, the only thing I changed was the lighting and render settings.

Those all look great but too bad there is no evironmental context to give the viewer an ideal where she is at and what time of day and what day of the year it is.

Let me know which one you liked and I'll see if I can recreate it and share the settings.

The point I tried to get across with the post was to just play around with the render settings and the lighting until you find the settings that suit your tastes and save the settings. :)

I'd be happy to share my settings with you though, let me know which one you liked and I'll see if I can remember the settings for it and share them with you.

I like the render 1 up from the bottom the best although they are all good in proper environmental context.

I think I have some lights from Promo Style Catch Lights in the scene, so I can't include those. But here are a couple of scenes that can get you started: http://sta.sh/01fj7x0wi6vl

Just unzip it, open the folder and drop the "Scenes" folder in your "My Library". You should then find them under Scenes >> Skin Enhancing Scene 1 (and Skin Enhancing Scene 2)

The scenes use V8's mats, but you could, of course, use whatever mats you want. You'd just have to make some adjustments to Tone Mapping. Here's what the scenes/settings look like with V8's mats:

Add some cool light effects, change the Tone Mapping settings, whatever you need to get it to look the way you like. :) One thing I recommend is definitely playing with Tone Mapping >> White Point. That can really help, as well as adjusting "Crush Blacks" and "Gamma". Be careful with "Burn Highlights" as that can make things look really shiney pretty easily.

Sadly, I don't have O8 yet, so I can't set up any scenes for her. But as her skin tends to look a bit orangy from what I've seen in some of the renders, I recommend adjusting the White Point for her (under Tone Mapping).

Once you get the scene the way you want it you can then save it as a Render Setting (File >> Save As >> Render Settings Preset) so that the settings can be applied to any scene.

ANGELREAPER1972 · July 2017

@Llynara, @divamakeup, ads @nicstt thanks guys the poses are mix of Z Warrior Princess Poses (Olympia8pro) and G3/2 various poses as well as my own playing some of the g3/2 ones didn't really need adjusting either. I think the new girls have potential

xyer0 · July 2017

ALLIEKATBLUE said:

Ok, so I finally got Olympia 8. While not my favorite, she does have potential. The straight base figure has some flaws that are just my personal preferences. I find her head too small for her body and she is overly muscled. That could be the look that this figure is supposed to represent but I prefer more petite ladies. Her strong body type does make for a figure that is more substantial in contrast to the waifish models that proliferate the the Daz scene, so I really appreciate her in my gene pool.

This is the straight Olympia render. Not digging the base skin and again her head is small to me and her eyes are a little beady.

Here is a more tweaked version. I enlarged her head and scaled her body down so she has less muscles but I still do like the definition. I think she has on Freja's Millie skin her.

This lady took all day. This one is highly customized with about 80% Olympia and another head morph from a V4 figure, converted by GenX to G3 then brought over to G8. The skin is Jael for G3 from Renderosity. I didn't use any of that figures makeup because I was so glad to discover that G8 can wear all the Extreme Closeup LIE makeup I have in my library, so just a little liner and nude glossy lip. I nipped in her waist a bit and reduced her breast size. I also shortened her torso a bit as well.

Overall, O8 has potential. I usually don't use the base characters as is anyway so the things that I don't like about her can be fixed by adding and subtracting. I do like her body and her overall face is mature but not "old". If I want to make her more youthful, I can dial in a younger head.

Great job on Jael's skin. I could not get that skin to look good. I chalked it up as wasted money.

nonesuch00 · July 2017

divamakeup said:

nonesuch00 said:

divamakeup said:

nonesuch00 said:

divamakeup said:

Yeah, I the Genesis 8 characters seem to require a bit more thought to lighting and render settings than the previous generations - quite a bit like real life skin. Different lighting and render settings can make a pretty big difference. The first image is Victoria 8's texture with the default lighting and render settings. They all have the same textures and the same skin texture settings, the only thing I changed was the lighting and render settings.

Those all look great but too bad there is no evironmental context to give the viewer an ideal where she is at and what time of day and what day of the year it is.

Let me know which one you liked and I'll see if I can recreate it and share the settings.

The point I tried to get across with the post was to just play around with the render settings and the lighting until you find the settings that suit your tastes and save the settings. :)

I'd be happy to share my settings with you though, let me know which one you liked and I'll see if I can remember the settings for it and share them with you.

I like the render 1 up from the bottom the best although they are all good in proper environmental context.

I think I have some lights from Promo Style Catch Lights in the scene, so I can't include those. But here are a couple of scenes that can get you started: http://sta.sh/01fj7x0wi6vl

Just unzip it, open the folder and drop the "Scenes" folder in your "My Library". You should then find them under Scenes >> Skin Enhancing Scene 1 (and Skin Enhancing Scene 2)

The scenes use V8's mats, but you could, of course, use whatever mats you want. You'd just have to make some adjustments to Tone Mapping. Here's what the scenes/settings look like with V8's mats:

Add some cool light effects, change the Tone Mapping settings, whatever you need to get it to look the way you like. :) One thing I recommend is definitely playing with Tone Mapping >> White Point. That can really help, as well as adjusting "Crush Blacks" and "Gamma". Be careful with "Burn Highlights" as that can make things look really shiney pretty easily.

Sadly, I don't have O8 yet, so I can't set up any scenes for her. But as her skin tends to look a bit orangy from what I've seen in some of the renders, I recommend adjusting the White Point for her (under Tone Mapping).

Once you get the scene the way you want it you can then save it as a Render Setting (File >> Save As >> Render Settings Preset) so that the settings can be applied to any scene.

Thanks I will try your setting & suggestions.

Decoyboy · July 2017

Here is my render of Olympia 8. No post work.

I llike her figure, i don't think she is muscle bound, but i do agree that she is a bit shiny out of the box.

nonesuch00 · July 2017

Decoyboy said:

Here is my render of Olympia 8. No post work.

I llike her figure, i don't think she is muscle bound, but i do agree that she is a bit shiny out of the box.

You say you haven't adjusted the setting but the sheen on her skin looks about spot-on for a washed and dried person a few hours out of the shower. At any rate, the quick fix to reduce sheen on G8 is to select the skin surfaces only and increase Glossiness Roughness to 0.6 or better since you don't like gloss, 0.8 or even higher. Skin will begin to look very clean and dry like being out of the shower 30 minutes in a cold room.

Decoyboy · August 2017

nonesuch00 said:

Decoyboy said:

Here is my render of Olympia 8. No post work.

I llike her figure, i don't think she is muscle bound, but i do agree that she is a bit shiny out of the box.

You say you haven't adjusted the setting but the sheen on her skin looks about spot-on for a washed and dried person a few hours out of the shower. At any rate, the quick fix to reduce sheen on G8 is to select the skin surfaces only and increase Glossiness Roughness to 0.6 or better since you don't like gloss, 0.8 or even higher. Skin will begin to look very clean and dry like being out of the shower 30 minutes in a cold room.

Sorry Nonesuch00, when i said no post work, i meant no photoshop work. I did change some settings, since i think she is a bit too shiny out of the box. Here is what i did *see attachment*. Mainly colors is what i messed with. I will try changing the gloss rough llike you said and see if i like that.

MBusch · August 2017

@Decoyboy

The thing is that the Translucency is to high for a caucasian skin, and the values are totally non-sense in the Volume section. Lowering the Translucency to something lke 0.50 helps a lot. Rising the Transmitted Measurement Distance to something like 2 and the Scattering Measurement Distance to 0.75 or 1 will give a more acceptable effect. I learned that a negative number in the SSS direction, so I use something like -0.65. A Bump value of 15 is very exagerated and doesn't solve the real problem.

Below is the result, but still a little waxy for my taste. Work in progress.

AllenArt · August 2017

IMVHO (for Genesis 8) the top coat should NOT be set to Reflectivity but instead, to Fresnel. Skin has quite a bit of Fresnel.

Laurie

AllenArt · August 2017

double post removed

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