The Realism Challenge - Biased VS Unbiased Showdown

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  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    Snap and even better when you use a small amout of UnSharp Mask on it as Howie suggests on his website.

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  • magaremotomagaremoto Posts: 1,112
    edited December 1969

    Did this one awhile ago. Pretty simple scene. I wanted to test how minimal I could go.


    Carrara 7.2 Pro render.


    One light and a white background color. Partial GI- Meaning I only had the Skylight option enabled and not full Indirect lighting. Skylight allows for the white Background color (or anything in the scenes's Background actually) to act like an IBL. I simulated SSS by using the skin's color image map in the glow channel.


    unbeatable hair EP, well done, I'd like to see some other shots that makes hair so real
    this is my SSS test made in Carrara 8

    I'm not sure how relevant the thread's theme really is - good arguments have been made about mastery of tools and artistry versus tech - but there have been some great renders.


    This is my favorite one of the thread. Yes, realistic humans aren't really possible, but this looks more like one than anything else I've seen. I love how imperfect he is, not grotesque but reasonable, and how alive his expression is.

    I wish I had made ​​it myself! I just imported the head in carrara and played around with bumps and SSS. You can find it here:
    http://www.ir-ltd.net/infinite-3d-head-scan-released

  • ravenraven Posts: 12
    edited December 1969

    Here's a car done in PoserPro2012. No lights, just two squares as light emitters. Took about 10-15 minutes to render. This is the .jpg as exported from PPro at 100% quality. Other pic is the render settings I used.

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  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,391
    edited December 1969


    dustrider said:
    Here is a car (with a girl in a swimsuit) rendered in Carrara, lit with HDRI and 2 spots for fill/hightlight (sorry for the links instead of direct image posts):
    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2130745

    The car looks more real than the girl but the girl is certainly more ****able! :zip:
    Thanks - Carrara does an excellent job with HDRI and reflections. It also does very well with human figures too, the lack of equal quality in the figure reality department is more a problem with the user (me) than the software.

    The link below is to a similar image, just focus on the car and disregard the girl (warning - nudity). I really liked the way the paint came out on this one, even though it is a bit toooo shiny-metallic.
    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2009629

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,391
    edited December 1969

    raven said:
    Here's a car done in PoserPro2012. No lights, just two squares as light emitters. Took about 10-15 minutes to render. This is the .jpg as exported from PPro at 100% quality. Other pic is the render settings I used.

    Great render!!! Thanks for posting and sharing your settings, we need more Poser posts in this thread.
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited February 2013

    I'm really beginning to hate a few things...

    I spent quite a bit of time to get this shader working in DS....

    http://www.msawtell.com/research/carpaint/carpaint.shtml

    And it works quite nicely...except it is an unforgiving SOB that highlights every fault in a model. Basically, I don't have a car in library worthy of it...the best render, so far is this one...a single spot (for a little highlighting) and an environment light...DS4.5

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    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    we back to detail again mjc or the lack of it? :)

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited February 2013

    mjc1016 said:
    I'm really beginning to hate a few things...

    I spent quite a bit of time to get this shader working in DS....

    http://www.msawtell.com/research/carpaint/carpaint.shtml

    And it works quite nicely...except it is an unforgiving SOB that highlights every fault in a model. Basically, I don't have a car in library worthy of it...the best render, so far is this one...a single spot (for a little highlighting) and an environment light...DS4.5


    Any chance of sharing the conversion? I can't find car paint that does face/flop differences anywhere. :-)

    Edit: Awh, it doesn't, does it? Still looks like it might be a decent base though.

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • UHFUHF Posts: 345
    edited December 1969

    OK... this one is called "Pursuit", and its my version of an old Shadowrun image, DMZ (Downtown Militarized Zone).

    I think the logic goes that if the .38 doesn't do the trick, the fireball probably will.

    It was rendered in Lux via Reality 2.5. It took 48 hours to render with all the light sources. (Yeah... kinda wanting Octane.)

    My PC was making so much noise while rendering this that I had to put a water cooler so I could sleep at night.

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  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    I'm really beginning to hate a few things...

    I spent quite a bit of time to get this shader working in DS....

    http://www.msawtell.com/research/carpaint/carpaint.shtml

    And it works quite nicely...except it is an unforgiving SOB that highlights every fault in a model. Basically, I don't have a car in library worthy of it...the best render, so far is this one...a single spot (for a little highlighting) and an environment light...DS4.5


    Any chance of sharing the conversion? I can't find car paint that does face/flop differences anywhere. :-)

    Edit: Awh, it doesn't, does it? Still looks like it might be a decent base though.

    Actually, those flipped faces are on the Foberghini itself...they show up with the standard DS shader...(in this one, they are showing up bright)

    I sent Martin (the original author of the shader) an email...I'm waiting for his response about sharing it.

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  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited February 2013

    mjc1016 said:
    mjc1016 said:
    I'm really beginning to hate a few things...

    I spent quite a bit of time to get this shader working in DS....

    http://www.msawtell.com/research/carpaint/carpaint.shtml

    And it works quite nicely...except it is an unforgiving SOB that highlights every fault in a model. Basically, I don't have a car in library worthy of it...the best render, so far is this one...a single spot (for a little highlighting) and an environment light...DS4.5


    Any chance of sharing the conversion? I can't find car paint that does face/flop differences anywhere. :-)

    Edit: Awh, it doesn't, does it? Still looks like it might be a decent base though.

    Actually, those flipped faces are on the Foberghini itself...they show up with the standard DS shader...(in this one, they are showing up bright)

    I sent Martin (the original author of the shader) an email...I'm waiting for his response about sharing it.
    I'm actually referring to the way a metallic paint tends to appear darker when viewed from an angle. Face is a view from head-on, flop would be the way it looks at an angle.

    I work in research and development in the paint industry, so the possibility of simulating something like this has me quite interested. I've never seen it in any car paint shader and the lack always kills the realism a little.

    Plus it might be possible to apply the same principles to simulating pigments that change color depending on viewing angle. I was goofing around before trying to build a shader in DS to accomplish it...but I really do need some kind of base to work off of or a lot more time on my hands than I do now. :lol:

    EDIT: Messed up the link.

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited March 2013

    Here's a couple more with the carpaint shader...set up a little more 'environment'

    The first is rendered in DS, the second in the standalone 3Delight...some changes in the lighting between them. The second has a subtle volumeteric dust and a spot added (UberVolume). The first is just environmental lighting (IBl), no additional lights.

    ETA: Just got an email from Martin...the sharing is a go. I'll clean up and relabel the parameters to make it a little easier to use and probably do a couple of presets for the shader. Probably won't get it packaged and uploaded until Sunday night at the earliest.

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    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • daveleitzdaveleitz Posts: 459
    edited December 1969

    @ Arkathan - Nice 3D! I always prefer cross eyed to other viewing methods.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    ETA: Just got an email from Martin...the sharing is a go. I'll clean up and relabel the parameters to make it a little easier to use and probably do a couple of presets for the shader. Probably won't get it packaged and uploaded until Sunday night at the earliest.

    Excellent! Many thanks.
  • The Paper TigerThe Paper Tiger Posts: 16
    edited March 2013

    Removed

    Post edited by The Paper Tiger on
  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,389
    edited December 1969

    Greetings,

    Arkathan said:
    Biased? Unbiased? Bah!
    You want "realistic" simulated 3D images?
    Just cross your eyes...

    ETA: DS 4.5


    I love that! I used to have a Chemistry textbook which had molecules laid out in cross-eye 3D...

    I wish there were a straightforward way to do this; something like rendering across two cameras simultaneously. I imagine you grouped two cameras together, but you'd still have to render each one separately. Not hard, but it'd be nice to automate.

    -- Morgan

  • 3DLust3DLust Posts: 230
    edited December 1969

    Just came across this thread - some really great renders here :)

    I found this image I did last year - rendered in Carrara

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  • ArkathanArkathan Posts: 64
    edited December 1969

    Cypherfox said:
    Greetings,
    Arkathan said:
    Biased? Unbiased? Bah!
    You want "realistic" simulated 3D images?
    Just cross your eyes...

    ETA: DS 4.5


    I love that! I used to have a Chemistry textbook which had molecules laid out in cross-eye 3D...

    I wish there were a straightforward way to do this; something like rendering across two cameras simultaneously. I imagine you grouped two cameras together, but you'd still have to render each one separately. Not hard, but it'd be nice to automate.

    -- Morgan

    Thanks! Yep, I put a second Genesis in the scene, hid everything but the eyes, and then centered a camera on each just to make sure the difference was to scale.

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,245
    edited December 1969

    It is not really about what you use , it is about what you can do with .. I love Carrara much better than Poser or DS but DS improve lately some way .. and sometimes it is looking better in DS sometimes in Carrara and other time in Octane since not all of them are the best to do everything , Personally DS is good for the studio effect .

    I made 2 test right now , the first is in Octane and the second in DS standard ( no Uber light ) not even used light at all since everything based on reflection , just put a sphere in with texture and hit the button , 10 min later you see what it do , Octane was rendered with the same map but as HDR , I am sure I could do the same in Carrara with the light effects but have not installed yet on my new machine ..
    I think both test are not bad at all , I forgot in DS to set the view panel correctly ..

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  • DzFireDzFire Posts: 1,467
    edited December 1969

    DAZ Studio 3 render here. One distant light, a few point lights for the light-bulbs, and an ambient shader.

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  • ReDaveReDave Posts: 815
    edited December 1969

    3DLust said:
    Just came across this thread - some really great renders here :)

    I found this image I did last year - rendered in Carrara

    That's really really good. o_O How did you set up specularity? I have appalling troubles with that in Carrara.

    I also like Raven's render a lot.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,490
    edited March 2013

    Here's the clean version of a biased render I did recently. I'm currently doing an unbiased version of the same image to see how they compare, which I'll post as soon as I get rid of the majority of the noise. My only lament at this point is that Aiko 5 doesn't come with any SSS maps, and there aren't any available elsewhere because she has her own unique UV set.

    Hopefully DimensionTheory will release another Interjections package for the new UV sets on the block so I can expand my collection. Until then, I'll have to rely on makeshift settings.

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    Post edited by Herald of Fire on
  • peteVaultpeteVault Posts: 308
    edited March 2013

    Mec4D said:
    It is not really about what you use , it is about what you can do with .. I love Carrara much better than Poser or DS but DS improve lately some way .. and sometimes it is looking better in DS sometimes in Carrara and other time in Octane since not all of them are the best to do everything , Personally DS is good for the studio effect .

    I made 2 test right now , the first is in Octane and the second in DS standard ( no Uber light ) not even used light at all since everything based on reflection , just put a sphere in with texture and hit the button , 10 min later you see what it do , Octane was rendered with the same map but as HDR , I am sure I could do the same in Carrara with the light effects but have not installed yet on my new machine ..
    I think both test are not bad at all , I forgot in DS to set the view panel correctly ..

    A bit of a shock here for me. I almost bought Octane....but I feel it is still more for deep pocket people who don't mind tinkering. I am surprised that the Octane render was very good, but I don't like it as much as the naked Daz render (personal taste, of course). My personal favorites are Reality 2.5, HDR-Pro setups by Dimension Theory, and Latios Lights 2. I am looking forward to Reality 3 for Poser....I have never had that much luck with Poser renders...I usually render the Poser scene in to C4D and use Maxwell or Vray render.

    Post edited by peteVault on
  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,245
    edited December 1969

    Reality is good too but it is all about time , and if I can finish my work in 1 min in place of waiting for 10 min or 10 hours it make difference for me , faster result and easy setup .. but that is all personal and how you feel using the program , I got Octane when it costed minder in the beginning , the price dramatically changed now and I think is much to high at this moment especially for hobby artists , never buy anything because of someone else renders , you need to test the demo and see how you feel about personally , make sure your computer is ready for it also including your budged , comparisons like that are about the skills of the artists and not actually the programs in 100% and since we don't buy the programs with the skills included there is no better software as one can create better art in DS than other with octane ... that tell enough , but my personal 1 choice from unbiased programs would be Carrara , it have everything in one package , amazing light, great hair, animation and the most easy rigging setup .

    pete.c44 said:
    Mec4D said:
    It is not really about what you use , it is about what you can do with .. I love Carrara much better than Poser or DS but DS improve lately some way .. and sometimes it is looking better in DS sometimes in Carrara and other time in Octane since not all of them are the best to do everything , Personally DS is good for the studio effect .

    I made 2 test right now , the first is in Octane and the second in DS standard ( no Uber light ) not even used light at all since everything based on reflection , just put a sphere in with texture and hit the button , 10 min later you see what it do , Octane was rendered with the same map but as HDR , I am sure I could do the same in Carrara with the light effects but have not installed yet on my new machine ..
    I think both test are not bad at all , I forgot in DS to set the view panel correctly ..

    A bit of a shock here for me. I almost bought Octane....but I feel it is still more for deep pocket people who don't mind tinkering. I am surprised that the Octane render was very good, but I don't like it as much as the naked Daz render (personal taste, of course). My personal favorites are Reality 2.5, HDR-Pro setups by Dimension Theory, and Latios Lights 2. I am looking forward to Reality 3 for Poser....I have never had that much luck with Poser renders...I usually render the Poser scene in to C4D and use Maxwell or Vray render.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited December 1969

    I want Octane so badly but I'd have to buy an entirely new computer since I have an ATI video card and work using a laptop for transportability reasons...hopefully they have some success with an OpenCL version.

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 1,355
    edited December 1969

    Reality render with the default Michael 5.
    No postwork except the text.

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  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,490
    edited December 1969

    Good a place as any to post this as I'm hoping some keen eyed boffin will be able to help me resolve the minor issue I'm getting with Luxrender. It's no secret that I've been playing around with homogeneous volumes in Lux, attempting to create a realistic skin effect. Essentially the bulk of the work is done using Reality 2.5, but with volumes and other alterations made in the resulting LXM / LXO files.

    Now, I've run through a few different settings, and I thought I finally came up with one that works well. Unfortunately, I'm getting a somewhat pearlescent effect, with multicolour flashes across the surface of my characters skin and even a few in her hair.

    The volumes are created using the an inverted copy of the diffuse textures (face, torso, limbs) plugged into the sigma a values, and sigma s is set up to be largely red. The skin is using glossy translucent material with the 'interior' setting using the aforementioned volumes. It looks okay for the most part, though perhaps a little TOO translucent in places, but otherwise not too bad.

    I left it rendering so I got over 100 samples p/pixel, so it's possible if I left it longer it might clear up. It does take a long time to render though. If anyone smarter than me has any suggestions for settings, I'd love to hear them. The current image is below to illustrate where I am.

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  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,042
    edited December 1969

    You might look at feeding the SSS map into a colourdepth texture and then assigning that to the absorption value. I haven't really played around much with SSS, though, so I could be completely off. Another approach might be to layer the glossytranslucent over a scattering material instead of using an internal volume.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,490
    edited December 1969

    Well, having played around a bit, I realised there might be something fundamental missing for realistic SSS effects. Namely, a skeleton. The models we all know and love lack internals, so making the surface into a translucent material means light effectively goes straight through the entire model.

    I think part of the problem with my original design was that it was separating the light into its component parts, much like a prism. I decided to remake a new scene, based on an old save I had, this time putting Daz's geometry shell to work. By the way, if anyone knows how to make a geometry shell that goes on the INSIDE, I'd love to find out.

    Regardless, this time I used the base Genesis as the 'skeleton' and the geometry shell was textured with the skin. The result is below, though obviously not quite as strong a SSS effect as Kaelyn above.

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  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,042
    edited December 1969


    I think part of the problem with my original design was that it was separating the light into its component parts, much like a prism. I decided to remake a new scene, based on an old save I had, this time putting Daz's geometry shell to work. By the way, if anyone knows how to make a geometry shell that goes on the INSIDE, I'd love to find out.

    Just set the mesh offset to a negative value.
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