The Realism Challenge - Biased VS Unbiased Showdown

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  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,490
    edited December 1969

    cwichura said:

    I think part of the problem with my original design was that it was separating the light into its component parts, much like a prism. I decided to remake a new scene, based on an old save I had, this time putting Daz's geometry shell to work. By the way, if anyone knows how to make a geometry shell that goes on the INSIDE, I'd love to find out.

    Just set the mesh offset to a negative value.
    Thats what I thought at first too, but if you do so certain areas end up poking out, so it's not a perfect match. It's almost as if you're scaling the object rather than putting a shell around it, like it is when the values are positive ones.
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited March 2013

    HoF...

    Here's skin I've been working with...I'll get the settings up later in the week.

    One of the things...specular color is medium grey (128 128 128) as opposed to white.

    Also there's a low value for Absorption...

    test9g.jpg
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    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • kyryiakyryia Posts: 46
    edited March 2013

    Luxrender for the win. Sure you get a lot out of 3Delight, but I hate faking light.

    Both done in Lux with only ONE lightsource

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    framed.png
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    Post edited by kyryia on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    And here she is after 'cooking' another 6 hrs....for a total of 8.5. I also adjusted the colorspace to Adobe RGB - Daylight

    test9g.jpg
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  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,490
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    And here she is after 'cooking' another 6 hrs....for a total of 8.5. I also adjusted the colorspace to Adobe RGB - Daylight

    She's a cutie. What materials and morphs did you use?
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    K4 Remapped...custom morph.

    Glossy translucent, no interior volume. I'll have a full material setting later in the week...I've got too many things to put it up right now, so I can't check.. The basic skin is V4 Bonnie by Von200 (wintervon200 http://www.sharecg.com/v/23363/gallery/11/Poser/Bonnie-For-DazV4.1-and-Morphs++) I was having the same 'pearlescent' look so I removed the volume and started tweaking everything else.

    The hair is Koz's Long Evo, with k4 fit. Mix material Null/Glossy with displacement map (created my own for that...but it could do wit a little more displacement...) Cornea is glass, the rest of the eye is glossy or glossy translucent.

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,394
    edited December 1969

    I found the original file for an image I linked to earlier, and reworked it. I got rid of the Grrl, and tweaked the car a bit and re-rendered so I could post the image here without linking off site. The render was done in Carrara with no post work. Could use a bit more work on the tires, but I like the effects on the paint.

    BlueCar.jpg
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  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    One thing DR...I noticed while sitting in traffic today, that reflections in carpaint tend to be a little blurry...those are just a tad too sharp, so maybe a little blur will give it that extra little something?

    Overall, great render...even if there's a little too much Armor-all on the tires. (tires are more of a very dark grey than black...unless wet/treated)

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,394
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    One thing DR...I noticed while sitting in traffic today, that reflections in carpaint tend to be a little blurry...those are just a tad too sharp, so maybe a little blur will give it that extra little something?

    Overall, great render...even if there's a little too much Armor-all on the tires. (tires are more of a very dark grey than black...unless wet/treated)


    Thanks for the suggestions - I'll try to redo the render with more blur in the reflections this weekend and post the update when it's done.
  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited December 1969

    If you want a showroom quality paint job, blur the reflection only very slightly. It should be almost unnoticeable. Then lower the intensity of the reflection a little, especially in the saturation if you can. It looks pretty slick so far.

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,394
    edited December 1969

    Here is the updated version of the car with blurry reflections enabled. I agree that turning the amount of reflection down would help, unfortunately the technique I used to do the color shift with increased reflection intensity doesn't allow adjustment of the reflection intensity. I may be able to use compound materials to do it, but so far have been unable to get the results I want.

    BlueCar2.jpg
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  • magaremotomagaremoto Posts: 1,112
    edited December 1969

    kyryia said:
    Luxrender for the win. Sure you get a lot out of 3Delight, but I hate faking light.

    Both done in Lux with only ONE lightsource

    impressive realism indeed. bravo! to you and lux as well

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 35,022
    edited December 1969

    kyryia said:
    Luxrender for the win. Sure you get a lot out of 3Delight, but I hate faking light.


    ...got used to doing it before all this "realistic" lighting stuff was available. Figured out how LDP worked then created a much leaner system that was more render friendly using DSMs instead of raytracing as my old system had limited memory resources.
  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,417
    edited December 1969

    Sometimes I have to use Poser too.

    Don't tell anyone but Bryce doesn't do everything.

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  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 35,022
    edited December 1969

    ...no issue with that, have Pro2012 myself.

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,417
    edited December 1969

    My Bryce addiction took over and I haven't updated Poser since Poser8.

    If anyone's interested David Brinnen is comparing Bryce to Octane down in the Bryce section. Well not so much comparing as figuring out what Octane does that maybe Bryce could do eventually... Interesting stuff.

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,417
    edited December 1969

    Figure I may as well chuck this one here too as it's looking realistic.

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  • JabbaJabba Posts: 1,374
    edited December 1969

    Full sized-version - http://fav.me/d5yrgam

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  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    Figure I may as well chuck this one here too as it's looking realistic.

    Excellent render and you just gave me an idea, thank you. ;)
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 35,022
    edited December 1969

    Figure I may as well chuck this one here too as it's looking realistic.


    ...OK, now time to wipe the Earl Grey tea off the screen and keyboard.
  • Type 0 NegativeType 0 Negative Posts: 316
    edited December 1969

    Sometimes I have to use Poser too.

    Don't tell anyone but Bryce doesn't do everything.

    I wish I could get a render like that out of Daz Studio!
    anyone know of a lightset that looks like that for DS?

  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,775
    edited December 1969

    Stop thinking in light sets and start thinking about each scene individually. The "correct" lighting for a scene will always be dependent on the scene itself. There is no one light set that always looks realistic, some work better than others.

    Think less about light sets and think more about the logic of light behavior. In a scene like the buddha The only item in the scene is the buddha and the ground. So 90% of this scene will be lit with indirect light, and to give it specular highlights one might consider a strong prominent light source located somewhere offscreen.

    Light sets, while wonderful dont really get to the issue of finding the light that is appropriate for a given scenario, and since each scenario is unique, there are very few light sets that work well outside of the original way they were intended to be used.

    Here are the things to consider in terms of light in any scene:
    1. Key lights or Direct Illumination: This includes sunlight, lamps and any other light source that is strong and likely travels in one direction coming from a prominent source casting most of the shadows and providing most of the specular highlights in a scene.
    2. Indirect light: It is here in the indirect lighting that 99% of the realism will be found. Calculating the way a direct light source is bounced around an area by the colored surfaces is where all the magic happens. Because indirect light includes things such as Skylight (Sunlight that has been diffused through the atmosphere giving it a blue tint and allowing it to shine down from all angles as opposed to direct sunlight which comes from a single point in the sky. What many people fail to realize is that indirect light casts shadows just like direct illumination, but the shadows are hundreds of times softer along the edges.

    The particular Buddha render you are looking at was done in Bryce using True Ambience, which is Bryce's version of radiosity, which bounces light around the scene in a natural way. Most likely the only light source he added was the key light, and all of the indirect illumination preventing the image from appearing as fully black in areas not struck by the direct illumination comes from Bryce's radiosity abilities. Des DS have indirect light...yes...and it will look very similar to that on Bryce.

    Hope this helps.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 35,022
    edited December 1969

    ...yes, Daz does have IDL with the built in UberEnvironment2. However it is a real hog in 3Delight.

    Even on my new workstation (with all eight processor threads and 12G of memory devoted to the render process) it is as slow as molasses in a Siberian winter.

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,387
    edited December 1969

    Hellboy said:
    I like to render in both 3Delight and LuxRender. I prefer LuxRender all the way. But 3Delight is very cool.

    Here are the most realistic things I have done with each engine.

    Hulk: DAZ Studio
    Guy : LuxRender

    I’m not sure about the Hulk one, but some people thought it was a photo and others asked me if it was LuxRender, so here it is.

    The other was a bit of a surprise because I didn’t have any hopes for it. I was just testing the Rob Elite texture. But people seemed to like it, and that was nice.

    None of them have postwork. Only the black guy in the contact between the hand and hip. But that little bit is not hiding or changing the actual render, so here it is.

    Hellboy, your renders seem amazing to me. The one of the guy with Rob Elite texture and the newer one with Freak and the Python are extremely realistic. Unless I missed it somewhere, are you up for sharing some of your secrets? I have the new Luxus plugin, but I don't know what conversions to use for skin, hair, etc. I am assuming I should be trying to use Lux materials and Lux lights?

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,387
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    HoF...

    Here's skin I've been working with...I'll get the settings up later in the week.

    One of the things...specular color is medium grey (128 128 128) as opposed to white.

    Also there's a low value for Absorption...

    Looking forward to seeing your settings. Very well done, I especially like your next version (the 8+ hours cook).

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,387
    edited December 1969

    Messed around with some skin settings while working on an entry for the Michael Initiative thread. I actually like the progress I made, but will continue to experiment until I find something much better. I think I need to work on the lighting as well. In this image, only post-work was cropping and a slight adjustment to contrast.

    Drag_Scott.jpg
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  • peteVaultpeteVault Posts: 308
    edited December 1969

    Sure. I wrote this so I could keep track of this thread.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    pete.c44 said:
    Sure. I wrote this so I could keep track of this thread.
    It was that last picture wasn't it. :) Disturbing and awesome at the same time....enough to fry the brain.
  • peteVaultpeteVault Posts: 308
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    pete.c44 said:
    Sure. I wrote this so I could keep track of this thread.
    It was that last picture wasn't it. :) Disturbing and awesome at the same time....enough to fry the brain.

    It's like a horrible accident....I can't tear my eyes away. That aside, it is a good render and I'm curious whether it's Lux or Octane or a biased render. A couple of questions. Are animations allowed? What about Maxwell render?

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,387
    edited December 1969

    pete.c44 said:
    Szark said:
    pete.c44 said:
    Sure. I wrote this so I could keep track of this thread.
    It was that last picture wasn't it. :) Disturbing and awesome at the same time....enough to fry the brain.

    It's like a horrible accident....I can't tear my eyes away. That aside, it is a good render and I'm curious whether it's Lux or Octane or a biased render. A couple of questions. Are animations allowed? What about Maxwell render?

    (Big smiles from Florida) It was a Lux Render. I haven't had a huge amount of time to devote to it, especially since testing renders takes huge amounts of time, but I think I am on the right track regarding skin. Still have some trouble with hair. Some styles, like the Zac hair in this pic, and some of the PureHair styles can be made to look good with adjustments to the opacity and diffuse strengths, while others, such as BillyHawk and Wildmane seem to render without color information. They come out grey. Anyway, I will crack this code yet!

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