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224 S 200 W, Suite #250
Salt Lake City, UT 84101
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© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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I always called that an upgrade.
...same here.
DAZ Studio uses OpenGL for display and Cuda for computing. No DirectX12 here. What you say only applies to gamers. In term of pure performance either in CPU or GPU, W7 is slightly above W10. The only good reason I see to get Windows 10 is about licence cost and max memory support. Windows 10 home x64 supports up to 128 GB RAM whereas Windows 7 x64 home basic only supports 8 GB and 16 GB if you have home premium. You'd have to buy a Win 7 Pro to get support up to 192 GB RAM. Source https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx
On the software side, unless you plan to use specific hardware like Hololens, or softwares that use DX12, Win 7 is still the better choice, espescially if you have a pro version
You have the option to use external GPU enclosure if you want to stay with Apple, but I think that the technology is still a bit experimental / unmature
See http://gpunerd.com/guides/egpu-for-mac for some infos
Yeah, those external GPU enclosures are quite complicated and chancy. You can only use certain cards in some boxes, and don't always get the proper info.
Right now, I've put the PC idea on hold. I might have other uses or needs for my money.
Looking at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883101466 ; now. It seems to be economically discounted. As previously noted, I do not know enough about hardware to tell if it would do well for Studio. I see that the power supply is 730W, and the memory supplied is inadequate (but expanding memory is usually not a problem).
Any thoughts?
Back when I paid attention to hardware, ACER seemed like a sketchy company that made poor quality stuff, but that was many years ago. So, they might be fine these days. Of course, I wouldn't touch an HP machine nor a Dell either, so...;) Definitely do some digging for reviews before you plunk that much money down.
That machine has 2 available memory slots, so you could bump the RAM up without losing any that comes with it. That's a good thing. The internal SSD drive is small, 250, but that's probably sufficient for OS and basic programs. 2 Tb is reasonable for content, I would imagine. Hopefully, you have an external drive for backups? :) The case looks reasonably sized, so you can probably add another hard drive to it if they put a slow disk in to save money.
This is more expensive than my asus with a 980 back over a year ago. But, the 980 wasn't exactly brand new at the time and there were some decent deals going on due to the whole black friday thing. I certainly wouldn't mind the boost the 1080 has to offer:)
Greetings,
I do all my scene work on a 27" iMac (and test renders), but for final renders I do it on a Windows box that sits right next to it. I'm considering upgrading the Windows box to something that can run an nVidia 1080 card, which'd be fun.
My content libraries are synched via Dropbox, usually using 'LAN Sync' which allows a computer on the LAN to get Dropbox files from another computer on the same network. The only hitch recently is encrypted content, but it's not a huge problem for me.
Windows 10 is fine, it's stable and reasonable, and it was free for me. It does updates, and they're usually controllable. If you want more control, spend more money on the Pro version, and you've got it. You have to spend more to get Windows 7 Pro anyway, unless you're willing to accept a 16GB limit.
I do all my programming work (and writing, and art, and browsing, and...) on my Macs, the only reason I have a Windows box is to run DAZ Studio. Well, and to play Civilization 6, but that's a recent addition.
Fwiw, I do all my deployment of web applications to Linux boxes, so I pretty much use all of Mac, Windows, and Linux semi-regularly, with Windows being the least-used.
-- Morgan
Ron,
I beleive there has been a shift in the PC market since you went to MAC. About four years ago I went looking to build a screaming graphics machine specifically for 3D graphics. I asked around and found that what I was looking to build would cost about $2,500 - $3,500.
On one of my threads asking what graphics users thought were the best componente someone suggested I buy a used computer, something I've always dismissed. When I started looking more closely, however, it turns out that companies doing high end graphics and CAD are tending to lease machines and turn them over every three years. There has arisen a cottage inustry of people who check-out these ususally well-cared for company PC machines and refurbish as necessary. I got my $2500 machine for $450 and am really happy with it. Of course I researched what I wanted and it took me about 4 months of looking to know and pounce when I found one loaded and underpriced. In 2013 it was a 2011 machine that was originally priced at about $3,200 new. At the time it came with a 500gb SATA HD, and a valid version of Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit and a decent nvida quadro card. I saved enough that now four years later I could repeat the process and sell my "old" one if I wanted.
Here's a quick "build your own" example from a refurbisher with about 40,660 sales on ebay and a 99.8% satisfaction rating:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Build-Your-Own-Dell-T7500-4-Core-Workstation-CTO-No-OS-Save-A-Lot-of-Money-/182331619129?var=&hash=item2a73cfb739:m:m0mLgXgvmdx0fUxODA3MJYQ
Enter the spaces, say for a T7500 Dell Server (not a typical home machine): An intel 5520 Quad core 2.5 ghz Xeon Processor (not sure if this chip has hyperthreading; something I think you'd want - I'm doing this on the fly ), 24 GB RAM, 1Tb SATA drive, and a Quadro 500, 2.5Gb video card and he's pricing it at $405.00 plus shipping with a 30 day return. The T7500 comes with spaces for four hard drives and is bigger than it's cousins, the 5500.
You should be able to do a lot better if you research what you want, but I think this would be a fairly solid machine as a bench mark starting point. And of course you could swap out compnents for new, such as a high end graphics card after you've got the machine.
I got windows 10 for free (not the home version, one up) tried it for awhile and didn't see any real advantages to what I was doing. I archived the disk for future reference/use and am back to Windows 7.
Thanks. I'm in the middle of unloading groceries. I've bookmarke the site you mentioned. Will look at this message and the other site later. Gotta catch my breath!
I have the misfortune to be an owner of both. Windows 8 is a massive step backwards, compared to W7. I have yet to meet anyone who has a good thing to say about W8.
Cheers,
Alex.
Consumer573, thanks again for your info. You help give me hope that I can build a decent graphics computer without paying a fortune. I might not even be able to put together $500 for another 5 months. That's once I finish paying some overdue bills, and save $100 a month. But it certainly looks like an achievable goal.
I got my first Mac in 2007. I chose the 24" iMac, specifically one with an nVidia card. I didn't realize at the time that it was a rather pitiful video card. I could have bought a Mac Pro back then, but it would be outdated by now. I thought I had it made when I got the 2014 27" iMac and a 1GB nVidia card. But that video card isn't sufficient.
Thanks again for your information.
I prefer Windows 8 over 7. Granted, the interface is annoying, but I use Classic Shell, so it's not an issue. Aside from those few annoyances, it's quite speedy. Much faster than Windows 7 actually.
Laurie
I just recently bought a dual Xeon 8 core machine with a 120 SSD and 2tb hard drive, 64 gigs of ram and an 850 watt PS for about 800 bucks. The inside is absolutely pristine. I dropped in a 980 Ti and I was off to the races ;). Lots of processing power for less total than it cost for my quad core, 16 gig gaming laptop.
Laurie
AllenArt, sounds good.
FYI
When I was actively looking for a machine I bookmarked an Intel chip comparison page on my desktop. I got to know it quite well. The "i" processors are home use, the "Xeon" processors are corporate server use.
http://ark.intel.com/
For the chip in the above randomly chosen example a few paragraphs up, that chip table would lead you to this page:
http://ark.intel.com/products/40200/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5520-8M-Cache-2_26-GHz-5_86-GTs-Intel-QPI
From here you can see that this particular chip does in fact have Hyperthreadding. This means in addition to the physical cores it simlulates more processors via hard coded software. I believe at this moment in time it's a good thing.
Go through a few used machine listings and you get familiar with this Intel comparison chart amazingly fast. For me it formed the basis of which machine being offered was better for the money.
AllenArt, who seems to have gotten a pretty darn good machine, brings up a point. Additional memory for the T5500 anf T7500 servers can be found on Ebay. You don't have to get max memory up front.
Right now, used, it looks like you can add 48-64gb for about $100 and 96 gb for $200 -$250 some time after you get the basic machine. 32Gb is about $32. The Dell server mother boards commonly have six memory slots and can handle 6x4=24gb, 6x8gb = 48gb, 6x16 gb =96 gb. You don't have to fill all the slots (a computer with 4gb of memory would have only one 4gb memory card) but the computer uses them sequentially depending upon which is closer to the processor. I'd say these days you'd want a minimum of 12-16GB in your base machine getting started. I'm not sure which is a better brand, but the refurbisher should make sure what ever brand of memory selected they are all the same, and I like making sure all the sizes are the same (eg all 4gb or 8 gb etc.). Make sure the processor and board can handle it,though, if you go a route like this, intending to add more memory later when funding allows; don't just assume.
Graphics boards are a whole 'nother ball of wax. But they are replaceable. Very often re-sellers will swap out expensive graphics boards for lesser ones as it appears they can make more money selling a good base machine and a screaming graphics card separately. At least differentiate between a really low end board and something that will work for you. You don't want a server set-up for office work and Big data crunching - some people do - because that won't have image processing oomph.
It almost goes without saying you should price a copy of Windows 7 or Windows 10. Add that to the price of the machine if it doesn't come with an operating system, or if it has the wrong operating system for you. I guess figure $100-$150 or so.
I've kind of gone beyond the concept of just getting a used machine for good graphics value. I mandated a budget limit of $500 and wound up choosing a Dell product, but you might find a better value elsewhere or have other requirements (size, power consumption, portability).
That system looks okay, except you don't know what kind of parts they put in there (drive type, PSU type, motherboard, etc...). At that price and component level you might see what configuring your own looks like.
I was discussing with Xi Computer about components, and their configurator lets you very specifically chose certain parts even down to over a dozen motherboards, various power supplies and OS. Sorry if that seems like an ad, but it seems like one of the few with so many options, you can at least use for price reference.
http://www.xicomputer.com/products/Configure_prof.asp?model=mtowersp4&configid=
I was kind of impressed with this deal. The T5600 chassis with two 8 core (16 thread) Xeons. These systems are sold new with COA for Windows, and technically that COA is only for the system that the number goes with. If you have the disk/file you should be able to install with the COA number that is provided. Usually that COA is prevented from being used on another system as they can be tied to the system BIOS (possibly the serial number).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Precision-T5600-2x-2-20GHz-8C-E5-2660-16GB-RAM-No-3-5-HDD-No-OS-/381883533041?hash=item58ea0846f1:g:5pwAAOSwa~BYUC9y
The issue with Dell is the special swap power supplies, which mean they are going to be harder to upgrade or replace. HP systems tend to use standard ATX sized supplies.
That is being quite kind. Windows 10 is that crazy uncle no one likes to talk about.
...yeah, I know. Your desicription is totally spot on.
Mac Pro's their flagship systems are approaching 3 years w/o any hardware update. Tim Cook is interested in selling "devices" not computers. I cant even get these forums to work right in Safari unless Daz is still letting this thing run amok and it's still borked across the board.
I do believe Apple has lagged behind on updates for many of its computers over the years.
Another mac user here, and I have had similar problems with quotes being messed up. Mine were usually the result of editing out some large block of text from a previous reference that no longer applied.
Back to topic, the trash bin computer was a cute design, but ridiculous for real pros. Once again, Over and over, Apple has demonstrated that they have a very limited view of their user base and that view doesn't include the likes of us. I'm sad that my future holds windows junk OS, but at least that junk OS can handle the my daily needs, unlike modern day mac. I personally think it's a bad idea to drive techies away from their products because they do help change public opinion. But, maybe the emoji fan base is big enough to ensure that apple stays profitable for many, many years.
...interesting as years ago Mac used to be the system for creative minded people while PCs were strictly "business". How things have changed. I remember when the early versions of Photoshop were still exclusively Mac software. It wasn't until 2.5 was released in late 1992 that it also supported Windows. We had a Mac IIfx in the shop and I played around with Photoshop on it a bit, created some nice freehand work.
They did update them; they dropped support for a real, quality video card by removing support for the drivers used and making it nearly impossible to install those drivers anyway.
Trust me...those of us who use Windows are sad that our future holds that junk OS. LOL If only all the software I use had Linux versions, but alas...
Laurie
Linux will never rival Windows or OSX.
Windows is now the biggest, most intrusive POS I've ever used (with the latest version). I'd glady put up with Linux ;)
Laurie
But that's the thing. A few years ago some "Brand Name" computer companies made a big deal about offering some computers with Linux installed. No one bought them.
A few years ago we didn't have the craptastic piece of trash that is Windows 10 ;). Give it time. LOL
Laurie
Linux is still evolving. The issue with Linux isn't that it isn't 'ready', as Ubuntu and CentOS have shown. It's that truly user-friendly configuration and installation CANNOT exist with all the multitudinous flavors of linux that exist today. As long as Linux is fractured, it will never take over the desktop market.
If tomorrow, ALL the linux users agreed that Distro X would be the only one, and that ALL current linux systems would be migrated to it, then it would very quickly start to gain traction. Linux already dominates the Server niche, Desktop and Workstation is where it lacks. But with the current dozens of distros out there, automating configuration and unifying tools and formats just isn't ABLE to happen. And THAT is why it isn't competing seriously with Windows and OSX.
And unfortunately, that isn't going to happen any time soon. Most linux users have their 'favorite' distro, and are loathe to use any other. Mint afficianados won't touch Ubuntu, RedHat backers can't stand SuSe....Slackware, Debian, CentOS, and more and NONE of them can agree on much. The only thing that unifies them is the Linux Kernel. There is some overlap about certain other parts, but it's still very different worlds.
What is needed is someone to build a linux distro that is well-thought out, has lots of support for hardware, Media licensing, simple GUI based configuration and setup utilities, and a unified GUI design. And then for ALMOST ALL exisitng Linux users to convert to it. Then MS and Apple would have some real competition to worry about......