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I'm frankly amazed that PAs can make a living on what they sell. I won't complain about prices -- after all, nobody is making me buy content. As noted, most of us are hobbyists, not professionals with budgeted projects. I have sooooo much stuff in my library that I could make art for, well, the life of an expensive bra and I'd still not use most of it twice. PAs -- and DAZ -- are businesses. They must balance sales the same way every business does -- charge high enough prices to be profitable, but not so high that you're losing customers. Given the way DAZ has recently dominated the marketplace, I'd be willing to bet they're doing a fair job of that.
I can only imagine the hours of work that go into a single, high-quality project. I'm certain if you calculated the hourly wage of our favorite PAs, we'd be a little shocked. Plus, at least in the US, a PA earning a living on their products must also consider things like buying healthcare coverage and thinking about retirement. My parents are small business owners. I support our PAs because I love their work and I value my hobby.
I'm also of the "buy a $125 bra and use it for 7 years" (or buy a $200 purse and use it for a decade) mentality. Pay for quality.
Oh, and shop for sales! The one rule of DAZ is that if you wait long enough, it'll go on mega-sale. If you can't afford to buy the new PA offerings, this is a good strategy!
Wondering how some of you get to 28$ for the bundle. I only ever get 35.88$. You guys are real discount pros.
These were from [intimacy], and we went there specifically for the "bigguns" as you will. It's the only store that carries her size in stock. She is *quite* large. These look nice *and* hold up. I think hers was Valkyrie or something like that. Mine was Africa Sexy (which cracked me up).
Now I don't feel so bad about my wardrobe from Goodwill. If it makes it to the thrift shop, it was built to last. If you all haven't guessed already, I'm a 90% off kind of gal. I love my bargains! And yeah, I'd pay $120 for a bra that fit well if it lasted several years. Then it's an investment! But most are like vaporwear- just as bad as the undies, they just disintegrate. At least the 3D clothes last forever, or until you delete them accidentally. LOL
For me the prices are "okay" for professional use, because it's all tax deductible anyway. I'm okay spending $30 to make $300. But I do raise my eyebrows about this "Make Money with Your Hobby" thing that's in the main banner. The prices seem high for a hobby. Prices on Rendo or the old RDNA seem more in line with that idea.
That doesn't mean I still buy at full price, even for a paid project. Since Daz has demonstrated their willingness for deep cuts for sales items, I'm okay playing along. It does mean that I may not ever buy an item in my wishlist, which is a lost sale to them. If they're okay with it, I'm okay with it.
Personally I buy inexpensive bras all the time and they work fine. Never had one fall apart either. Guess it depends on what brand you buy. Pricey doesn't really indicate quality. I would never pay 120 dollars for a bra or any other object of clothing really.
The bundle is coming out as $28.33 in my cart. I purchased a Gift Card at discount a while back, so that makes the final real dollar price right around $11.35.
I have major back issues. Anything firmly touching my spine or ribs for more than a few minutes becomes agonizing, so I have to find something that dissipates the pressure. I have a hard time with long car rides for the same reason -- car seats are torture. Also, if you're, er, exceptionally well-endowed (I'm not, lol) a good bra is the Holy Grail of wardrobe. One of my best friends had reduction surgery and still has a hard time finding bras that fit for under $75.
I was gonna stay out of this thread... coz really, nothing ever comes of them. You'll not convince vendors to drop their prices to nothing, nor will we convince you that you should spend beyond your abilities. Nor should you. Nor should we. We are eternally at odds there, unfortunately, and no good comes of these threads. But I kinna want to chime in just a little bit.....
I paid 150$ for a pair of Calvin Klein riding boots. Are they better than the same knock off? Maybe... maybe not (tho the exact pair could not be found in another brand anyway) The bottom line was, I wanted them... so I was willing to spend the money for them. For everyone, thats a personal thing. That doesn't make the price of them wrong tho, coz some cannot afford to or would not buy them, based on their higher price.
And yes, actually... pricey can absolutely be indicative of quality. If I have my choice of shopping at Walmart or this other place I shop called Tilly's... guess where Im going? Not walmart. Because the clothing doesnt last nearly as long as the stuff at Tilly's.... and yeah, its more expensive @ Tilly's coz it will last. I know this from personal experience... goads of it actually, as Im a shopoholic and clothing addict. I buy it when I dont even need to.
In the case of 3D tho, its not just quality, strenuous testing and quality assurance (and I can tell you, maybe some stuff gets missed, but QA is indeed stringent despite the occasional human error) but sometimes, it also comes down to size and complexity. The latter is something the customer doesnt often "get" or fully "comprehend" because its so automated for you guys and you dont see the behind the scenes struggle. You are basically paying for a make art button... we've done all the complicated stuff, like multiple materials, morphs for function, rigging, textures, and so forth. If anyone knows me, I also have poses, which work with weapons... so you guys dont have to do that stuff yourselves. THAT is what you are paying for. If you were to go to Turbo squid for example, its generally way more expensive, and u get literally an obj and a texture... thats it.
You're paying for 13 yrs Ive dedicated to learning how to do all this stuff, and dedicating myself to constantly improving my own stuff
You're paying for thousands upon thousands of dollars Ive spent on software, to make this stuff, or make it even better.
You're paying for my skill. You're paying for the convenience of not having to do it all yourselves.
I personally try to create all diff sized packs, so theres all diff prices that can appeal to diff customers. But sadly, given the variation, there is no way I could do them all evenly across the board for next to nothing. Just like you, I have bills to pay. And this is my job.
Also, hobbies are not cheap. Im not sure where anyone ever got that idea... but art supplies? Very expensive. Model cars and trains? Very expensive. We used to fly model airplanes back in the day that we paid over 500$ for... that we wrecked lol Perspective is a funny thing. Comparatively, this stuff is actually pretty feasibly priced. And its cheaper than drugs and therapy.... so there is that.
Personally, I've never felt that Turbosquid or those who charge a lot for obj are any more professional than any other outfit. I've bought a few things from these 'professional' stores and quality is pretty much the same as any other 3d marketplace if not a bit worse. The fact that they are considered professional and others are not likely has more to do with the software platforms and their marketing they cater to than quality of the merchnadise. But perception does not always equal reality.
I think you are probably talking to someone else as the rest of your comments really aren't addressing any points I brought up.. The bra analogy wasn't mine. But... Not to sound dismissive but... Thats the job. As an artist you have to be a promoter editor and seller. If you can't do that, its the wrong line of work. Most artist friends I know don't do art full time. It is a hard row to hoe. Not being unkind, but I was an art major, I know the market, my friends are artists. I realized a while ago I wanted a steady paycheck, and I took a full time job. I'm not sure that the answer though is to raise prices beyond the means of the average consumer. I would personally think the answer is to sell more product. But you got to do what you got to do. I will pick and choose from the offerings provided and buy what I feel is needed and I can afford. If it works out financially for people then they got to do what they got to do, but as prices rise, so will my level of discenment. Thats the price of making things more expensive. People want more quality.
That said, successful artists are often less talented at art and more at marketing themselves. I've seen plenty of fairly average artists sell more because they had a lot of marketing chutzpah. That to me is daz's biggest weakness. they don't market well or enough.
Actually, the only kind of artists I know who make less money with their work are authors, at least those who haven't written a bestseller yet. So I don't begrudge the PAs any single dollar they get. But 3D is a hobby for me, most of the time, and I already spent way more money than I should have ... There ist still a family which want's to live on my money. So, waiting for discounts.
Yeah, that's too bad. I personally cant stand wearing bras, so the moment I get home off mine goes. I just resist the idea that inexpensive things indicate they are poor quality. That just hasn't been my expereience.
One thing a lot of people seem to be ignoring is that the sheer number of sales, discounts, specials, and fastgrabs has gone up every year.
Ten years ago, a given outfit would have cost, say, $18.95 at regular price. But unless you bought it during its two week intro sale, or during the PA Sale or March Madness, you paid the full price, all $18.95 of it.
Nowadays, the same outfit is, say, $21.95 - but on any given day you purchase, if it's not a PA Sale type situation, you're still getting a huge discount, often 50% or more depending on stacking discounts.
End result? You're paying MUCH less, on the average, than you think - and think you're paying more because the base cost is higher.
Seriously. Think about it.
Speaking of art, I'm going back to making it. It's been fun, but I vowed to myself I'd not get dragged into another price discussion and I'm not going to. CIAO
There it is!
Yes, exactly. I had a bundle that was 60$ selling for 5$ a couple weeks ago. Granted, it was aged Generation 4 stuffs, but still. There are plenty of opportunities to purchase stuff for cheaper.... and where it used to be that sales would run only once in a blue moon, now its pretty much on any given day.
Agree, and it's how I decide on buying something.
I can do most I want, not always as well, and sometime a fair way off as well; but I've got pretty good and making my own textures for characters, and I can pretty well get any shape I want for a character.
What I buy is a convenience, and sometimes a starting point.
I make my own clothes at times, but again it's a time-factor.
I object to seeing the same SSS, spec, bump with minor tweaks, that I can definitely do myself and in only a short amount of time - it happens more than you (random person reading this) think. I particularly object to buying the same merchant resource on the diffuse time and again, and have returned a product when that happens.
I'm not acusing Raiya of it, love the characters they produce.
EDIT
Whilst I think about it; I don't judge an item from what I'm paying, but from the full price. It's the only way to compare items. A character at full price by a PA should be the same quality as an item from PC as their full prices are about the same; after all if a PA item is lesser quality, then the fact it has a larger discount is irrelavant. I'm not saying they are, only using it as an example.
Just to give some perspective...
Day in the Office Collection II for V3 - Price: $24.95
2005 - https://web.archive.org/web/20050426152812/http://www.daz3d.com/shop.php?op=itemdetails&item=3127&cat=3&PHPSESSID=5abaaf03012b986c255755156bfaefaf
Fashion Sweater Outfit for Genesis 3 Female(s) - Price: $16.95
http://www.daz3d.com/fashion-sweater-outfit-for-genesis-3-female-s
Quality in general has gone up and prices have come down. Also there is far more content being created then in the past.
But please spend wisely.
Daz forum is so cool. I was totally enthralled with the bra discussion.
I put the Raiya/OOT Bundle in my cart, and it was $26.44 for five items (or effectively, four, if you insist on counting Raiya's products as one item). I didn't want the clothes or the hair, but since I was basically paying $10+ for them (versus just the morphs and texture), I investigated and discovered that the hair was close enough to another OOT hair on my wishlist to replace it. Then I read that buying the bundle gave you 10% off your entire order! So, I found some money so I could get a maximum savings. I paid $3 to $5 a piece for several hairs and outfits. I got Genesis 3 characters that I wanted but would never have purchased EXCEPT THEY WERE LESS THAN $5! In the past three months, I have gotten some of the lowest prices ever on lots of fairly new kit.
And this is the importantant thing to remember
While it is easy to look at a $400 USD product like this
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/character-zbrush-rigged-max/983898
..and assume they could have "saved money" by buying a similar armor for the G3 male here at DAZ.
The turbosquid version comes as an Autodesk MAX or MAYA rig with Mental Ray shaders ready for a pro pipeline that uses those programs.
you wont be paying a your highly paid Rigging and TD artists to redo/fix the cheaper Daz model nor will you have the license restriction that comes with the Daz model.
I've bought from Turbosquid and I am embarrassed to say for TurboSquid that I as a total rank amateur had to fix models bought from their PAs personally in Blender or have one of TurboSquid's staff attempt to repair it satisfactorily, or return the product for a refund. I paid no more than $100 for an item (returned) and less than $50 but more than free for the rest.
Of course I don't want to buy a product in TurboSquid except if it can be accurately exported to a non-Autodesk program. I can't afford AutoDesk 3D modeling SW for a hobby use, even the Maya LT version.
It's then you realize the TurboSquid is mostly a sales front for aspiring 3D free lance artists with wildly different levels of motivation using cracked versions of the Autodesk tools or 3D students trying to make money on various course work they completed to varying levels of professional satisfaction. I wouldn't say most of the work on TurboSquid is professional by any means but there are still about 2 dozen models I intend to buy (and probably repair - actually maybe not - that artist I am buying from is competant and prices his models reasonable - many of the other models on TurboSquid are like sucker bait for squids or something) from TurboSquid.
Amen. LOL
Laurie
Something I notice from many PAs' promotional images is that they themselves have bought a lot of items from other PAs. I guess they thought it worth the investment. I'm only throwing this in as a remark - not dismissing anyone's argument one way or another.
Lol! Yes. This!
So... Thread recap/highlights
You've obviously never done model trains or dollhouses ;). Talk about your high prices for a hobby....owwww ;).
Laurie
Wood carving, oil paining, clay modeling and so on are are very expensive too. That's one thing I'm enjoying about DAZ...I can model (OK - use FaceGen & then various DAZ morphs to do so with minimal muss & fuss) a caricature before I try to carve it in wood or represent it in other media which can get quite expensive. I think that's what Poser was originally made to do.
You've obviously never done model trains or dollhouses ;). Talk about your high prices for a hobby....owwww ;).
Laurie
You should see what I used to pay for fimo clay and precious metal clay. The tools, the raw supplies....all very expensive. Hobbies by nature are expensive - it's a constant stream of money going out. 3D however is the only hobby I know that if you want to you can make your own materials (the models) for free (software like Wings 3D and Blender) and use it over and over again. ;)
Laurie
This is all well and good, and points well taken. But it's not the per-piece price that matters, it's how much royalty you make overall. I'm not a 3D digital PA, but I am a full-time professional writer with over 65 books. Millions of copies in print, dozens of languages, yada yada yawn.
If I knew I'd only sell 200 copies of a book, and my royalties were $2 per book, I'd spend no more than a day or two on it. Of course, such a book would be useless - no one can write a decent book in that amount of time. So instead, I write books that take 2-5 months, and expect a far larger number to sell. Otherwise I might as well be a greeter at Walmart. Granted, books probably sell more than 3D assets, but (most) publishers know how to price them to sell in the highest volumes possible. They've had a long time to learn how.
I'm sure Daz has done much market research on finding the "sweet spot" price for a product, so maybe X sales for Y dollars yields the highest overall earnings. However, that doesn't mean markets, economies, and buying habits don't change, so these are things that need to be tested and retested on a regular basis. Personally, I'd rather sell 500 copies of something at $10 each, than 250 copies at $20. Same royalty in the end, but if I do a good job, now I have twice the chance of turning a drive-by customer into an ongoing loyal buyer.
The best thing Daz and PAs can do is listen to their customers in threads like this. Doesn't mean you have to always lower your price, but an ongoing complaint such as prices rising far faster than inflation needs some attention.
Or looked at something like this: http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-008879 Talk about sticker shock...
You will buy maybe one of these your entire life. My stepfater bought an ICOM ham rig in the 70s for about $2,500 -- a lot back then -- and had it 15 years before he died. $166 a year isn't too bad.