What happend to Poser Content?
cryodragonus_0f748e6734
Posts: 10
I am not a big fan of Daz Studio even though I have it but I would like to know why there is very little content for Poser. It is all and mostley for Daz Studio 4.9.
I really liked when you have or had the option of what software you want to install content to. I have tried many times to use Daz Studio and I am not very comfortable
or care for it to much. I would really hate to end my long lasting membership at DAZ 3D because you stopped giving those options. Also what ever happend to the 3D printing service?
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As far as I know, you can still buy Poser oriented content, it's just that the content for Genesis 3 Male and Female is not officially supported by Smith Micro in Poser. Many venders from Runtime DNA that made Poser content are coming over here, and still support that software.
There is lots of content for Poser here and even more since the vendors from Runtime DNA moved over. Of course as daywalker says, the newer items for Genesis 3 don't aren't supported in Poser but that is Smith Micro's choice not Daz's.
Do you mean the option in the old .exe installers? That had nothing to do with the files installed, it just made the isntaller search for Poser.exe if it had to decide where to install, or in some cases (such as the fourth geenration figues and morph expansions) to make sure they were being installed in the Primary Runtime (which became an invalid approach with Poser updates to work on Windows Vista and later).
It is not that Smith Micro doesn't officially support it, its that G3 is not compatable. There is a difference.
But they have chosen not to support Genesis since the beginning. Or they have been slow to add or not added things that would make compatibility possible.
To be fair any software/hardware maker that uses
externally sourced content/plugins bears the responsibility of maintainng compatability with those external sources upon which they have chosen to depend.
For example SAMSUNG has to update thier
Phones to work with whatever fancy new version of android that google decides to thrust at them.
Google does not have to write special versions of android to work on obsolete phone hardware.
this is the reality of these types of symbiotic relationships.
Maxon does not "officially support" the Genesis figures either.
yet I am rendering a feature length animated film
using genesis figures rendered in C4D via
.obj/MDD out to C4D.
But this is because I am willing to create All of my animation in Iclone/Daz/animate+
and transfer the motion to fully textured genesis figure.obj files in maxon C4D Via MDD.
Those who are only willing/able to use ONE single, solitary program( poser), have to accept the reality of the limitations that entails.
Not really. And the point is really is the software maker being responsive to the needs of their customers so they've included features and capabilities to keep not only the customers happy, but keep their software current as well? So software makers have added formats, features, etc to stay competitive. So that brings us back to the lack of content... If the company isn't respnosive, their customers will shop and buy elsewhere.
Actually, people have scripted support for importing G3 figures into Poser 11 using DSON Importer, so Poser CAN support it, but to do thimgs right requires some changes that only Smith Micro can make for proper support of the models.
Male-M3dia I'm a big fan of your content & What your comment says it true. But on the other hand if Daz is buying up the competition like RDNA that mostly sold poser content.. that makes it a little harder to shop else where for poser stuff.. I do not use genesis 3 for a number of reasons. mostly because of the lack of animation support and cross compatibility . I have poser 6 thru poser 11 and all my older poser content still works in all version of poser. I may need to make some mat adjustments . But the FX tools like Practical FX and all nerds FX tools still work even though they are 8 years old or older. which they do not ork at all in Daz studio. and after paying $29 plus for products that becomes broken with each new version of daz studio . tends to make me more cautious when it comes to buying things here. My opinion is sometimes I think daz trying to stay head in technology screws its long times customers that want to still use the tools we paid good money for... like the AOA lights to Atmosphere cams, light domes & even older shaders that become useless with every new version of daz studio. there seems to be no continuity with their software development . So that is why i stopped buying Plugins and add on.and even some textures paks I will not even consider because I am afraid when I buy it, it will be come useless because I know the next new version of Daz Studio will mostly likely break those items compatibility. I just think that can't be good for business in the long run for users that have been here any length of time and shop here regularly. But that is just my 2 cents take it for what its worth
Not don't agree. I think a lot of what DAZ is offering is what most users have been asking for. That said, I don't think a lot of people do animation, work with dynamics, and play with physics enough to put in a compete effort. Also the problem with Poser content being made isn't with DAZ buying anyone, it's with customers buying Poser products. If you're not making money producing certain items, you simply won't keep making them. For me I find it hard to load poser and use M4 and stick with a static size and shape (unless I use tools to make fits for custom items) when I can use genesis to make guys in different sizes and shapes and ages and still use available content. I've think others see the advantages of that too which is why I think the market is the way it is now.
Yup Yup I agree with some of what you say,.. But I suppose that is like why Carrera users don't want to use genesis 3 either .. No cross compatibly so even though bright and shiny is good for new customers. when older customer up grade their daz studio only to fnd out the older content does no longer work and ther no options to go back to older version of studio unless you had back up a copy that leaves a very bad taste in my mouth for wanting to buy the new bright and shiny plugin in
Just saying
I heard from a thread they're working on compatiblity with Carrara, but I'm not thinking that market is all that large either. I have the program but I think I opened it up once, then closed it. But I don't think it's really a matter of compatibility either.
I'm getting the impression your a Daz Studio exclusive user and just make still graphics for your art form. so no complaints on what your saying. . I'm just a lot more cautious in what I purchase.. I can make still art & graphics with any ol mesh figure with any software including Photoshop. . But I can't create animation in Daz Studio with just any new mesh figures that not compatible with what animation tools are offered. So I guess that is why I taken your advice and don't purchase what I can't use for my needs. which at the moment is Genesis 3 or anything daz connect. But like you said that is my choice & my money . its true a lot of users don't use daz for animation. But if Daz offered more compatibility for animation with what they sell there maybe more interest in it from other users. I guess it will be just a matter of time before animate 2 plugin becomes obsolete as well.
No, not really. They have scripted a way to fix G3 expressions in Poser once you have converted G3 back to TriAx in DS. So basically you create a new "G3 bis" figure using G2 tech, which was already supported by the DSON importer. Poser still can't support G3 tech.
The face rig does it for me. I do better facial expressions, especially when using custom morphs. If the expression is too much I can just adjust the facial rig to suit the expression on the custom morph better. Previous generations would need a morph correction for the expression.
I agree as animators we have different needs than the regular user and I think alot of the issues with animating in daz studio for people is having experience working with the studio software, That is what I use now is g2 also. its just easier to make things work with it. even using Dson with g2 in poser has its limits , that is why I have mostly been using daz studio 4.8 with generation 4 and g2 figures for animation. I just wish when daz comes out with a new software version they would stop removing the older versions out of our product libraries, so if we don't like the new up grade we can convert it back . with out having to keep back ups. I'm still using 4.6 & 4.8 even though I have 4.9 installed and can run all of them at the same time .as .( see capture) But one day I was having a issue with my dynamic clothing plugin in my daz studio 4.6 and could not re download & reinstall the plugin because daz made it a upgrade only download. which is 4.9 version. that really peeves me that when we buy a plugin we can't keep the versions we paid for in our product libraries .
All those extra bones in the face morphs are great for still art... not as necessary for animation.
Yes the incredible amount of face morphs for the G2 figures makes facial animation very expressive& versatile.
The problem is not that G3 cant be animated
MANUALLY BY HAND.
The problem is that this is the year 2016
where every serious animation pipeline makes efficient use of MOTION RETARGETING
(ie create character motion in an environment
that gives realtime feed back)
such as Iclone,motionbuilder,Endorphin etc.
and apply bone level the created motion to your hi res ,render ready version in your final rendering program.
G3 does not accept motion from any of the usual
sources that every Daz figure before it would in general.
That face rig IMHO is marketing Hyperbole
that may have some nominal benefits for the still render majority.
but the radical changes in the body rig has broken compatibility with EVERY motion generation system that made Daz studio superior to poser for character animation... and no posting a daz store link to some canned anibloks
that may appear for G3 does not deal with compatibilty issue.
So for me it is Iclone pro with 3D exchange/aniMate+/Graphmate/Keymate/Endorphin with G1/G2 for my animation work.
Depend on what you're animating. But I'm going to disagree with that, since you're going to get a wider amount and better looking emotions with it than generic facial morphs that won't cover everything. Considering that apps like Maya allow animation and figures with facial and body bones rather than the poser way of morphs, it would make more sense that Genesis 3 is more compatible with that than older ways of doing things or using tech that hasn't been used in those programs for years if not decades.
I have to agree. I really wish g3 would have been compatible with the older content and motions files, I do like the new g3 content that has come out in the store. but if I get so frustrated working with g3 because of compatibility issues. its just not worth it.. I like to use a older plugin called animator & animate 2 that was for daz 3 & poser that believe it or not still works with daz 4.8. . g3 does not work at all in Animator, though ti works fine with animate2 But it never worked right with the key-mate plugin either. I dunno I think its a different mesh tolerance which makes it unusable for those motion files & plugins that were created for older generation.. I have tried working with genesis 3 a lot when it first came out I wanted to see how hard it was working with it before i invested in g3.. & animating by hand is not really a issue. I do a lot of hand key-framing with generation 4 and g2 anyway. for me its more as like you said the compatibility is non existent which means tons of extra work using fixes & half ass work arounds to get just the basic stuff to look right. I have seen there are a few new aniblocks & a pose converters showing up in the daz store now for g3 . But its really not worth the effort using g3 in animation, with the amount of extra time used to fiddling with g3 trying get it to work with my library motion files & animations tools that were made for older generation characters. which right up to G2 that stuff all worked fine. and forget about using BHV motion files with g3 the results are just comical..
Yes it makes more sense if one happens to be an Autodesk Maya user
But it does not help users of the many Character motion creation options that are now available for Daz studio both old and new
Do you mean G3 specific anibloks work fine in animate 2??
because for me NONE of my existing library of aniblocks can get G3 arms down out of the "T position"
and I have not bothered getting any new G3 specific aniblocks that may be available.
Do you mean the dropdown menu option in the middle of the old executable installers? That was nothing to do with whether an item would work only in Poser or DAZ|Studio, that was simply selecting where the files were to be installed. Remember, in those early days it wasn't unusual for someone using both Poser and D|S to have two separate content locations — I certainly did, back when I was still using Poser. The majority of items in the DAZ store nowadays already are and always have been usable directly in Poser, with the exception of recent Genesis stuff and anything that states on the store page that they're made to work only in D|S.
It's exactly the same files being installed, with exactly the same Poser compatibility. The only thing you need to take care with is exactly the same as it's always been, that your new items are being installed properly into your Poser Runtime folder.
Really? Now I am going to have to disagree with you. Maya is way more powerful animation tool than Daz studio your comparing apples to oranges. Daz has never been even close to the animation power or the rigging tech that Maya or 3ds has. how many very close up facial " animated " ( emphasis on Animated and not still art) scene have you created in daz studio that required a SubD mesh detail result like a Maya or 3ds animations puts out? i have done many close up facial scenes using g2 in HD and never had a need for all those extra bones. in most cases a animated face scenes are a mere faction of a second and won't even be noticed by your audience. SubD mesh in maya is very useful if your working with toon characters close up which do not normally have alot of facial bones for expressions unless you create & rig them in your model. With Maya you need to recreate the character rigging after importing it.90% of Maya models are created with.with either 3dmax or Mud Box. Zbursh etc. g3 does not work in Maya well at all. when you FXB import/export its break the rigging which means its not any more useful than g2 in a maya animation.
Unlike still art. animations are made up of many scenes most of which are only a second or 2 long tied together to make one long running scene. if you think its time consuming making an animation with daz you really need to try doing it with Maya..lol that is why big production animation company will have teams of people working on a single project. still art is just that "still" which it gives the viewer a chance to study your art and the extra facial bones would be desired for better results. of a close up But in a animation created using daz studio I doubt it would be noticed by the average audience viewer. That is why I don't believe its not necessary to have all that extra facial bones when using daz studio for animation.
I guess It would be very helpful to show me of what your talking about needing all that extra stuff g3 offers in an animation, if you could animate an example for me using all those extra face morphs in g3 that I could not get similar results with g2 in an simple animation would go along way :)
No I meant working with g3 if hand keyframing in animate 2 will work . None of my Aniblocks and BVH files will not work for g3 unless I created them for g3 to begin with. But g3 will work fine with animate 2 plugin if you hand keyframe the animation sequence instead of trying to use a older generation character ani block.
Yes I too am curious to see some G3 bone based facial animation with lipsynch that is noticably superior to the variety I now get with the hundreds of subtle expression morphs I now use for the G2 figures in animation.
Now it is my understanding that the face bones made G3 more compatible with game engines as older morph based expressions did not transfer to Unity& unreal etc.
well that is great for game developers but I fail the seen any advantage for DS animators.
.
My point was that the models could be imported, but proper support (meaning dual-quaternion weight mapping and rigging) needs to be done by Smith Micro if we want to be able to use them the same way we do in DAZ Studio.
It's not a different comparison, it's a different workflow.
This video shows a facial rig in Maya. G3 has the same amount of facial bones. With adjusting the facial rig to custom morphs you have way more expressions than with morphs alone, which won't look correct when used with other morphs than it was created from. But you see if you're animating how you can create your expressions and save them and use them as part of your animation. It's not just for games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4z_RYApUuQ