You've been heard. Response re: 4.9 and Encryption
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Week 2 since daz 4.9 release with drm through daz connect,
Money spent here at daz = 0 Sorry Daz, ever since you released 4.9 with all these little extra things no one wanted I'm going to stay far away from it.
Money I spent at other places so far = $60- I picked up a really great city creator set that almost revivals what Stonemason makes @ about 1/2 the price & I picked up 2 vehicles and some plant props as well..( I'd like to tell you where. But I'm not allowed to post links to other stores according to this forthright honest company forums ELUA) So really I should thank daz for pushing me to start looking harder else where for new things. So Thank you daz for that at least.
In all fairness I guess because I have no interest in genesis 3 anything which was my reason why I have not spent much money here accept for a few environments and pose packs, But the last 2 weeks since daz release Daz-Connect DRM and then a few encrypted only products being released, then they add insult to injury with all those recently added new Daz connect buttons in the product library on all my paid for content where I manually download them,. It has sucked the fun right out of shopping here totally., For Reals!
Why do we need a daz connect button in a product library where we manual download our content? I thought connect worked thought the daz software not through our product libraries? Or is this just preparation for total DRM encrypted content in the near future?.
For 2 weeks I have spent a big fat zero here. which I see as a loose - loose situation for me and daz. I loose because I can not and will not use encrypted content EVER! and daz is loosing my sale. .like most of you all I have had a $100 a month budgeted for 3d products for the last few years most of which I use to spend here and then some.. . None of it has been spent here at daz since January 16 2015 .. But I feel Daz won't miss my money any.
So I ask again does daz really care about their customers when they said "They are listening to their customers complaint " hence the title of this thread., But turn around and make you feel like its a big show to appease us customers.. I've been in this shopping game a while and Companies that listen to their customers don't remove tons of comments from the people complaining negatively about their policies. and then turn around and tell us complainers in a public forum no less that we are wrong or silly because everyone else accepts daz's new policy just fine &, or we complainers are just making things up & fear mongering. ( Really fear mongering?) Hey Daz people. Maybe you don't relies this But it maybe has to do with the fact that some of us customers have had some really bad experiences & past history with companies, doing just like daz, that have gone this very same route with encrption,cloud or DRM. all in the name of curbing priacy . All in all in the mean while telling their customer the very same things as we are being told in the forums. like "trust us" ." its nothing like digitel rights managament.". bla bla bla. Its like deja vu.all over again. you guys must think that encryptied is a new thing.
Really that is like pissing on me and trying to call it rain.
Now you no longer have to wonder why alot of your customers are angry we been there, done that, and not going back there again.
Customers asked for (a) an offline install option for Connect, and (b) an option to save the installer, so Daz listened and provided these capabilities.
I can't see how this is the same situation. With Genesis, while there were compatibility issues there were new features and improvements to the figure that could not exist without breaking compatibility. This DRM adds nothing to the content and in fact places limitations that had not been present before. DRM is not progress, it's not some new feature that improves content in any way and again I ask anyone to show me any way the DRM makes anything better for the end user in any real fashion. I can name several ways Genesis was an improvement on V4/M4 for users, can you name one way an encrypted product is an improvement to users over an unencrypted version of the same product?
I get that the intent of this argument is to paint those opposing DRM as just fearing change, but there are real issues involved with DRM that should not be dismissed so lightly. This isn't fear mongering or conspiracy theory but actual concern over a system that is provably hobbling our content with no benefit to us.
1) Encryption and DRM.
Simply wonderful. Please test that key upon new updates to DAZ Studio. I'd hate for that Escrow company and us DAZ content owners find that it no longer works. Encrypted content is no problem for me. I don't download it nor try to install it. ---- DAZ sells only encrypted content... I go elsewhere and DAZ loses a PC+ customer .
2) Difficulty or confusion in finding and installing products through Daz Connect.
I don't see connect to be a problem. I work offline, use DIM and can install manual if need be. ---- DIM goes away... I go elsewhere.
3) Frustration over missing functionality in the Content Library pane experience.
Great, another pane... another pain. "It's not complicated enough... we'll just add another pane."
I've just started reading this huge thread, Feb 7th 2016. Even thought it's not what I had hoped to hear... at least I've heard something. Thanks Steve.
Will my absence be noticed... NO... hardly a drop in a bucket... I wonder now how long until that bucket will overflow. I will remeniss about all the happy spending days at DAZ.
What do you mean about hobbling?
Are you saying none of this encrypted stuff works as advertised?
My feelings exactly! Change is inevitable and as long as I can still get content, encrypted or not, and it works in Studio, then I am happy! This is a hobby for me that I love. There is no way that I am going to let this ruin my hobby. I believe that DAZ does have a back door to unencrypt if need be and I am not worried. Heck, I might be too old to care, by then, if they didn't...at least I could say that it has been a good run! I will not stop buying content and I will be using, always, the latest Studio version. Remember, people, this is just my opinion and is not to suede anyone from one side to the other. You were looking for more input from users that have not been heard from, and now you have it from me.
Completely agree and just adding my voice too in order to illustrate that there are many sides to each story. I have no issues with DAZ trying to protect their interests and those of the PAs. I have of course no idea if it will succeed, but time will tell. I have bought and used all of the encrypted items without any issue. Even though I am still using most of my contnet via the library tab, I can see advantages for the Connect functionality and I am experimenting with it. I will certainly continue to acquire DAZ and PA stuff, no matter if encrypted or not.
Happy Rendering Everyone!
Ciao
TD
I'm saying that encrypted products lack certain kinds of functionality and that lack is entirely due to their being encrypted. Just because they don't advertise that most of their products are plaintext user readable files doesn't mean that isn't a feature that some users find useful.
Same goes for portability to Poser through DSON and/or use in Cararra. As well they require a login to have occured on any new studio install which is not required for unencrypted content.
All of these things are hobbled by encryption. While they aren't what could be considered crippling, they do affect usability.
And the idea that if DAZ isn't actively advertising a feature means it doesn't matter if they remove it is one I'd hope makes one cringe.
I still haven't seen any kind of official statement either of how long 4.9 Connect will be supported in the future. When 4.10 or whatever future version comes out, there could be introduced breaking changes to the encryption and lock out 4.9 users and tell them to upgrade to the latest version if they want access to their content again.
Two of the 'lost' functions probably won't stay lost forever...
1. Carrara will, probably, at some point in the future be able to read the encrypted content. Remember, it's dev cycle and Studio's are not in sync. So just because it doesn't now, doesn't mean it can't/won't ever be able to. Genesis 3 is promissed/coming...so maybe then?
2. Editing of the files...only store bought products are encrypted, so that means any self created, freebies and items sold elsewhere are still editable and won't be affected. Plus, in direct answer to a question I asked, long ago during the beta phase, the possiblity of editing them WITHIN Studio is at least being considered. I have hopes that it will happen at some point. While I don't have any items for sale (yet), I consider myself mostly a content creator...and that is a function that WILL be of benefit to content creators...just expanded script/file editing will help (yeah the internal editor had a re-do lately, but it can still be improved (but hey, what I use as a baseline for text editors does set the bar rather high).
Fine...it's speculation, looking at what has happened in the past with all the other 'end of the world' features that have doomed Carrara...
"Genesis won't work in Carrara...it's broken! It's not broken, it's dead, Jim!"
Eventually, they do happen. It's proven...just slower than a snail stuck in molasses, though.
Well, it certainly hobbles those of us who work with computers that, for whatever reason, will never be online! We can't get the encryption key, we can't download encrypted content, yeah, I'd call that "hobbling", more accurate to say "unusable", though.
And no one at Daz is offering us anything. I'm not going to stop shopping at Daz, but I am going to cut back on the spending here. This whole DRM thing has given me reason to look at other sites, and I've found a lot of stuff elsewhere that will suit my needs just as well as Daz content. If it weren't for DRM, I wouldn't have had reason to even look.
I'm not sure if this has been bought up before, but I would like to propose a solution that benefits both Daz and people, like me, who want nothing to do with DAZ Connect and encryption...
When Daz Studio 5.0 launches, the software will be split into two versions. Daz Studio 5.0 "Pro" will have DAZ Connect, encryption, and Generation 4 models. Another product, called Daz Studio 5.0 Legacy (or Standard), would be launched at the same time. DAZ Studio 5.0 Legacy would NOT have DAZ Connect, encryption, OR Generation 4+ model support. The sole purpose of the Legacy version would be for the sales and use of V2 thru Generation 3 models. This would also offer the benefit of allowing users the comforting knowledge that should DAZ Studio "Pro" implement some new feature that they want no part of ( on-line use only, streaming ads, complete encryption, etc), they can still use their accumulated V2 thru Generation 3 purchases as they always have been using them. And then, nobody has to get upset, right?
Except the developers and customer service people who have to support two versions...
As you can install two DazStudio versions as long as the first number of the version is different (you can install DS1, DS2, DS3 and DS4 on the same harddrive), people would just stay with their DS4 and older DazStudio versions for having access to V4 and so on.
By the way: are you really talking about Victoria2 and Victoria3 for your "legacy" version?
I think what was meant was Genesis version 3 and earlier. Just confusion of abbreviations
"Except the developers and customer service people who have to support two versions..."
I bought a new Ford last year and the Ford people now say they won't provide me with any customer service or parts for my 2015 model. They tell me I need to get rid of my 2015 Ford and buy the 2016 model if I want that.
I said to them....#$%$##!
So because a few new customers couldn't find content and won't take the time to learn how to install content, older established customers that have proven thier loyalty with thousands of dollars in purchases are being punished in the hopes that a few of them will become established customers?
Seriously? Why do I (not a new user thank you very much) need to learn how to do anything other than a standard install of the product? I've done a standard install for 10 years now am happier than ever with those standard installs.
I know you are far from a new customer Khory, but you are a prime example to this point I am sure. You may USE a standard instal but I am willing to bet you know the program well enough you could do any kind of instal you want. I have used Studio for jsut over a year and I have taken the time to learn the program that I am using. If nothing else give us the option of turning those option OFF in our product library.
Customers didn't ask for Connect itself in the first place :) As for offline installer, DAZ_Rawb mentioned it in the very first Beta 1 thread so it was planned from the start. Maybe they rolled it out earlier (in 4.9 instead of 4.10) but again questions arise about how well this feature was tested. According to long list of Connect fixes in the latest Public Beta - not enough.
"Poison pill" is not yet provided. This thing has to be 100% reliable by it's nature but how shall I be aware of this? I cannot test it until DAZ is gone and after that - who will provide fixes if they will be needed?
Nappa asks Vegeta to use a scouter device to estimate the power level of Goku.
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/It's_Over_9000!
Therefore:
- How large is the customer base of DAZ3D?
- It's over 9000!
- - -
It should be noted that that by itself doesn't make that much sense - most people know it via the youtube video that made fun of that particular dub.
As of now Carrara cannot properly work with Genesis 1 that was released... when?
It also cannot properly adapt to multimonitors or monitor in portrait orientation and it was promised... when?
Anything I do edit is bought somewhere, mostly here :)
AFAIR when Poser with support for WM was out there was a post from Poser dev about various skinning methods. He said that any method may be implemented via plugin, DQ was also mentioned as well as spline skinning.
DAZ have been fairly quiet regarding DAZ connect support for Carrara, just a few hint as far as I remember, but no promises. This is perfectly understandable, they will want to see if DRM is a success in DS first (ie sales increase) before commiting to the expense of implementing this stuff in another app. From what we have heard the DAZ dev team is probably very small (maybe just 4-5 people), and so management of what they work on is very important. It is this small team size that also excludes any options regarding two or more versions of the apps, as has been talked about earlier.