You've been heard. Response re: 4.9 and Encryption
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I puchased that too (it is very cheap for what it allows you to do), and so far it works brilliantly. I finally have a dynamic Morphing Fantasy Dress :-) Not really relevant to this discussion though, as I suspect the script would work fine with encrypted clothing (but i have not tested it)
By "customer uninterest" Richard probably meant that less and less Poser customers shop at DAZ, so supporting Poser as well as DS is not cost-effective anymore for vendors (and yes, several vendors have stated that they stopped supporting Poser because of that).
As for Dawn and Dusk, I loved the idea to have a DS and Poser version of the figure, but sadly DS support is quasi non-existent for them appart from official packs from Hivewire.
Anyone who thought that a rift would not occur, at some point, wasn't paying much attention to reality. The fact that compatability was kept for so long is the amazing part of the saga. And for the most part, that rift was just delayed for 4 yrs. I see one company spending that 4 yrs trying to make things easier and one just not caring. I see vendors, after 4 yrs of seeing sales dropping for version X saying it's not worth the time/effort (and yeah the actual product creation may only add a couple hours of work...it's the testing, the promo renders, the tweaking the materials that take all the time...not to mention the cost of keeping current in two gap widening programs), so they just give up supporting more than one version of the product.
The time has come to make that clean break...(and even still, it's not that clean).
That's quite possible. I'm not sure about the timeline, but that might have even been before the change in DAZ' management.
It's still true, though, that a lot of the critique and 'fear mongering' from the community at the time did turn out to be on the mark, whatever DAZ' intentions were.
As I said, what matters most is what kind of framework is laid down now, causet will shape where this company and it's community are going. And it's not necessarily a choice between a good alternative and a bad one, as it seldom is, but they might be quite different.
I've had that happen. Kinda ironic to peek in on what the pirates are doing and find something new to buy, but sometimes serendipity works. (I do searches occasionally to see if anyone's passing around my old product. Almost feel sad that I can't find it anymore because that means it's completely worthless if not even the 'collect everything in sight no matter how useless' pirates don't even have it. Maybe I'll have someone host it as a freebie in case anyone wants the silly thing.)
A bit off topic, but uninstalling DC downloaded content and then installing with DIM does not returnt the DC icon on the Smart Content tab, so it's harder to tell what was installed with which method. Is there a special fitler that could be used? DC is an interesting idea, but still has "managing your content" usability issues over DIM. SOunds like the "Install" tab might help on that front, once that is released.
Edit: Looks like it is all content installed since upgrading from 4.8 to 4.9. I just installed a couple purchases via DIM and there is no special DC icon. So I take it the icon is for pre-upgrade content only? Is there a way to show jsut what was installed with DC (or DIM) on the Smart Content tab??
Ooh, interesting... I totally missed that product, thanks for the heads up :)
I have read alot of posts here pro and con but my question is if the whole proposition of the DRM is to help protect assets from piracy why is encrypted stuff hooked into DAZ itself? Seems to me to have better balance and still give users a choice of sorts would be to have the functionality hooked into the DIMM. You could still have daz connect so people could browse things in DAZ studio so they can see whats available but instead of downloading into DAZ its still hooked into the DIMM that way people could still archive the way they want and the whole point of protection is preserved. Am i crazy or maybe i dont understand yet.
Daniel
The DRM has to be hooked into DS because it has to be able to decrypt the DRM protected files. If it's not, then the files would have to be stored unencrypted on the system, which defeats the entire purpose.
Update / Edit:
Added image that shows the different combinations of delivery method, protection and folder structure.
Try to have a look at all the parts separately.
Delivery method:
- DIM (external application) [DIM]
- DAZ Connect (Internal application) [DC]
Protection:
- encrypted [E]
- readable [R]
Folder structure
- All files scattered around different folders in the content library (CL)
- All files placed in one product folder named with the SKU number (PF)
- - -
At the moment you have either
DIM - R - CL
or
DC - R - PF
DC - E - PF
- - -
Nevertheless if they wanted they might as well provide
DIM - R - PF
DIM - E - CL
DIM - E - PF
DC - E - CL
DC - R - CL
Any combination of delivery method, protection and folder structure would be possible.
It does not have to be either [DIM - R - CL] or [DC - R & E - PF].
If DAZ3d wants they could add functionality to both DIM or DC to make both delivery methods interchangeable.
- - -
The reason why there are so many different opinions on this topic is exactly because in theory there could be 8 different combinations that different types of users would prefer.
Nevertheless this would mean that DAZ3D would need to create 4 different type of delivery products that are distributed over two different type of channels.
It may allready be enough work to provide two different type of delivery products as it is the case now ( R & E - PF) and (R - CL).
- - -
Since promo art is not mentioned no rights tomusage are granted - you cannot use another's work without explicit permission, which is why freebies should always include a readme with usage rights at the very least. So yes, if a warez site is using images (or text) from the promo page it is already infringing, regardless of any quibbles over the content.
I disagree; it affects those with negative experiences of DRM.
At best, we can hope for no discernable affect on our Daz experience from the DRM system, and DRMed products.
The problem with DRMed products (different than encrypted) is that they can work for weeks and months without issue. Working great yesterday (and today) is not a guarantee that they will tomorrow; don't take anyone's word for it here; try Google, Bing, or one of the many other search engines.
For DC, etc. that's true but for the DRM to work DS has to have a way to decrypt the content. The only way to partially separate the DRM would be to have a key server on the network that DS could talk to (which might help solve "my art computer never has access to the Internet" concerns). But even then DS would still have to be the one decrypting the content.
Sadly, this is very likely true.
Worth it, you never know. :)
Great... it's good to hear that from you.
I've never encounterd any DAZ folks, employees who are not "good" people. They have done what they could and gone out of their way to give me help whether it be a question I have, a problem or help in purchasing content/programs. These "good" DAZ people do have a rather hard job too often... right now they have the job of trying to please everyone in regards to the Encrypted/Non-Encrypted problem/confusion/debate/mess. Don't read that wrong... they always try to please everyone from what I've seen and experienced... I've always been pleased... well except until now... I'm very uncertain as to what will come of all of the DS 4.9 "new" features. I don't envy the job of the moderators/administrors or any of the staff in Help/Sales/etc, in these times. As a mostly self taught programmer I don't envy the jobs of the programmers either... they unlike myself have to answer to someone. Anyone whose ever had a job dealing with the public knows about this... some more than others of course.
I do appreciate DAZ_Steve and other DAZ_(folks) letting everyone know, especially me, what's going on even though it's occasionally not what we want to hear. They are after all doing their jobs... addressing everyones desires and trying to please everyone which is an impossible task.
I will admit to being a bit riled up over all of what is going on... encryption and using Studio as a downloader for content... but have chosen not to take place in picking everything apart or repeating my feelings over and over and over again... there are many who have already stated their views one way or the other and said it better and more detailed than I normally do and almost always take the time to. Please excuse me but I'm a slow reader and even slower at typing and editing/proofing what I post. The reason I'm in this hugh thread is to make sure that I've been heard... being on page 4 I'm not yet totally sure and will have to read on in my spare time.
I've never posted anything that I regret saying.. that I can think of at the moment. I do regret the, too often, errors in spelling/grammer/typos/etc which is why some of my posts show "...edited..." which is always on the same day and normally within minutes. I do think before posting and often post nothing at all because I'd rather not regret it later.
Myself being creative have always been attracted to Graphics and Programming... explains why I'm a Carrara Pro user and my desire to become a PA... hopefully here. [ hey... you're off topic John... wrap it up] Yes sir right away sir.
John ~Wilson Graphic Design~
Skimpwear sells?
Who'd have thought it?
Agree though.
So the million dollar question, how to curb piracy ?
Encryption seems to be less of a cure, more of a delay.
Any Ideas?
Only issue with that approach is that you have to assume sales one direction or the other, depending on which way you offer it first.....
Offer it Encrypted first, then Unencrypted: You have to either sum the two, or assume a percentage of the Encrypted sales would have gone for Unencrypted (especially if they didn't know it would be offered Unencrypted later.)
Offer it Unencrypted first, then Encrypted: You have to assume a percentage of the Unecrypted sales WOULD have been for Encrypted (especially if they didn't know it was going to become Encrypted later.)
What you really need to get a really good picture, is TWO very similar items (but different enough so that both would be wanted, and owning one wouldn't detract from owning the other) and release them simultaneously, with one Encrypted, and the other Unencrypted. Compare the resulting sales. Even then, there is a margin of error, since some people will not have enough for both, and will only get one or the other (and the reasons behind that choice may not involve the Encrypted/Unencrypted issues.) Both should be normally priced items (not freebies or PC+) as well.
Make your product easy to obtain and good value (see Steam, Netflix, etc. etc.)
Trying to gauge opposition to DRM by offering the same item encrypted and non-encypted won't work, even people like me who don't have a problem with encrypted items will choose the non-encrypted one. None of us defending DAZ's decision WANT or LIKE DRM, we're just willing to put up with it.
You want an interesting test of customer's resolve, you sell an encrypted version of a product for half the price of a non-encrypted one. ;)
While I never visit warez sites I did recently report a suspect site to Sales... guess that counts for something.. turned out it was legit. I avoid warez sites and known pirated software for many reasons. Most important is supporting the PAs. Next I want a legal copy of any software, music etc. I'd also not trust anything from a warez site not to have a virus hidden in it... why run the risk... not a problem for me since I'm strickly against pirated software as well as anythiing pirated (stolen). I am the User's Help SIG leader of the Gateway Amiga Club and have always been against piracy and pirated software. I once had a member who attended one of my meetings... he thought there was something wrong with his disk's... turned out he had a virus on every disk he brought... he had gotten them from a "so called friend". When he left all his disks were wiped clean of the virus. I only hope that he learned his lesson... the hard way.
This does not mean that I am for encryption.
The plank...yardarms...keel-hulling...
Okay. You are mistaking my intent. The reason given for implementing DRM is financial, Daz feels that by encrypting the product, people who would otherwise steal it will instead buy it, increasing sales.
I don't know of any way to test that assumption.
My idea would only show Daz how many sales are lost because of encryption. Whether they are making up for those lost sales with sales to thieves is for them to decide.
I wasn't trying to find out whether encrypted would be more popular than unencrypted!
To put it simply: Place an item (like the trenchcoat) up for sale encrypted. 1000 people buy it. (example)
A month later, offer it for sale unencrypted. 100 more people buy it.
That's 100 sales that were lost due to DRM.
Now, does Daz believe that at least 100 thieves bought the encrypted version because they couldn't steal it? If not, then DRM is costing Daz money.
There is, of course, no way to be certain of anything. But it would be an indication.
Right now, Daz is trying to get thieves to become customers while slipping the shaft to existing customers like me who can not use encrypted content because of workplace rules etc.
I've noticed that Daz_Jon's posts have put the focus away from the whole 'lost sales' angle. I think he's actually making a good point on the subject of thieves using stolen credit card info to make purchases. It certainly makes more business sense than trying to grasp at phantom 'lost sales'. The fraudulent credit card use is something DAZ can track, and does have hard numbers for.
I don't think DRM is the best or most appropriate solution, but given how another site flubbed setting up a 'first time purchase' verification, it's easy to see why DAZ might be worried about putting in anything that could be seen as making purchasing more difficult.
While such methods likewise affect both legit and fraudulent purchasers, if something goes wrong in the process it should be set up so that you're not charged unless the item is going to be delivered. As annoying as it might be to not be able to buy something until verified, it pales in comparison to the ire one feels when something you've bought and downloaded is unusable due to a glitch or unexpected situation in the DRM.
Has anyone complained about credit card verification on the other site?
Other than them not telling the customer in advance that their purchase was going to be delayed?
+1
For more than 10 years I was part of the "silent majority" only very occasionally reading anything in the forums and never posting anything. That's my loss and one I would have profited from in other threads. In a way I believe or rather hope that we do speak in part for the "silent majority". Seeking knowlege I've only actively been posting in other threads for around 6+- months. I am a Carrara Pro user still and up until then an occasional Poser user of DAZ content for those programs only. Since the release of DS 4.9 I've been reluctant to even us it... probably me being a bit paranoid about this whole mess. I've also not bought any content... no I'm not boycotting anyone... just giving my wallet time to recover... I'll be purchasing again to show that I support the PAs.
I've tried asking about this a bunch of times, still hoping for an answer.
I was one of the people who got upset at the other site - but only because it was only explained in one small post somewhere, not on the purchase screen, download screen, or any of the email receipts. If it had clearly said "we need to verify your first purchase with this card, it generally takes x time. If nothing has happened after x time please contact support" on say the download screen, and the receipt, then I'd have been perfectly fine with it.
Surely that'd do more to dent actually stopping the fraud that is costing Daz so much without causing such an upheaval amongst their customers. I'd happily deal with a short delay once to help protect Daz and the PAs.
Even more accurate results would be if both items were by the same vendor! That would eliminate the "favorite vendor" skew.
Dana
In the past you couldn't even talk about warez sites in the forums. Now, I'm seeing all these loyal customers knowing warez is out there all over, but they are continuing to support DAZ regardless. Yet DAZ is taking a 'we can't trust anyone' approach to the problem... in my opinion.
I'll continue supporting DAZ and the fabulous vendors buying DIM available products, but I'm not buying any connect or encrypted ONLY content... nor downloading any freebies with those limitations.
I can understand a desire to want to curb pirating, but I highly doubt long-term loyal customers are using content they do not acquire legitimately.
What would be a great addition for encrypted only products is to have their thumbnail in the webstore encircled by a perhaps "yellow line" or have the NEW be on a yellow background. NEW could alternatively be replaced by ENC for encrypted only. This would help those wishing to avoid encrypted files and not wast time bringing up their product page only to find out that they are encrypted only.
Please move this post elsewhere if it does not belong here.