Daz Studio 4.9 Daz Original Figure Skin Material Optimization

13

Comments

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,846

    You really should never need to flagg any surfaces with PBR shaders. If the "world" is created properly then it will all work with any lighting. I've rendered V7 in 4.9 with about 300 different lighting set ups and not had to adjust her skin once.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 25,126

    ...only have Josie 7 and she was an early G3F release. Haven't seen an update for her in the DIM for 4.9 so apparently her skin shaders haven't been revised yet.

    I am aware there is no flagging of shaders with Iray.  That is only a feature of the AoA Advanced Lights (and a very useful one at that) which worked excellent with the SSS shaders until the 4.7 update.

    As I mentioned in the Show Your Iray Renders thread, I feel I am floundering around just randomly "pushing buttons" in hope of getting anything to look right. Lack of well written documentation is really making it difficult and video tutorials do not cut it for me.  As I cannot afford a lot of the Iray utilities in the store, I have to "go it alone" trying to figure out what to do and thus feel I'm in over my head. The last couple months have been rather discouraging as I feel I've made little to no headway. 

  • Have a look at canvasses and Light Path Expressions as a possible replacement for flagging - but remember that the way light works in Iray is not the same as the way light shaders work in 3Delight, so the rationale for using such techniques is not going to be fully translatable.

    http://blog.irayrender.com/post/76948894710/compositing-with-light-path-expressions

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 25,126

    ...but, can that be done in Daz Studio?  The UI shown in the video is quite different.

  • Yes - go to the Advanced tab or Render Settings, then the Canvasses tab of that. You can add a new canvas (layer) and set its type to LPE and set up node groups as required.

  • argel1200argel1200 Posts: 677

    Hey RIchard, I am not seeing a Canvases tab. The closest I can find is Render Settings > Canvases (have to have show hidden properties checked) which has a drop-down menu for Active Canvases but no way to add any. What am I missing?

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 8,655

    This thread might help with canvases.

  • Hardware, Canvasses and Cloud are three sub-tabs of the Advanced tab of Render Settings.

  • argel1200argel1200 Posts: 677
    edited April 2016

    Ahh, I see. I''m using a custom set of colors and the text and the backgriund color are almsot the same, so I didnt see the other tabs. :(  Edit: Actually, it's the Highway style, which doesn't show anything for unselected tabs. I think I will file a bug report on that.

    Post edited by argel1200 on
  • argel1200 said:

    Ahh, I see. I''m using a custom set of colors and the text and the backgriund color are almsot the same, so I didnt see the other tabs. :(  Edit: Actually, it's the Highway style, which doesn't show anything for unselected tabs. I think I will file a bug report on that.

    Ah, there was someone in another thread recently who had invisible inactive tabs and I assumed it was due to their having customised the colours. Yes, bug report please.

  • argel1200argel1200 Posts: 677

    I reset my colors and then Previewed it and they were still "invisible".  I already opened a ticket on it, including a screenshot. It's using the Background Color (132,132,132) and Mid Light Color (130,130,130) so practically invisible.

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 3,320

    Thats not a bug just bad color choices.

  • "Bug" reports are for any issues with the application or content, not just coding errors as such.

  • JimbowJimbow Posts: 556
    Toyen said:

    If you apply the 4.9 full body preset and then change the face to a texture with make up, the make up textures often do not match the 4.9 preset which is on the rest of the body.

    If you look at the images in the image editor (not LIE), do the gamma values differ?

  • Rather than asking people to completely redo their lighting in every scene they have saved previously in 4.8, Daz 4.9 could use a render option that emulates Daz 4.8. Notice I said "emulate." That would would be the best way, and it would tempt a whole lot of holdouts to finally make that upgrade to 4.9.

    The change is in Iray - if nVidia didn't provide a switch to turn the bug back on then there's nothing Daz can do at that level, and I'm not sure that it would be possible to write a custom SSS routine in a shader that woudl mimic the bug (and if it was it would be extrremely slow, I imagine).

    When I install a video game, I am given a choice to run that game with several different API. Many games can run on DirectX11, 10 and even 9, all without needing to reinstall the game. Now in order to switch API, you do need to reboot the game. But that's all. Now why do they offer these options? Some people might prefer the older API. Maybe their PCs are not good enough to run the newest API, maybe the game's framerate runs faster in the older ones, and as you should know, framerates are king. Who knows, it could be any number of reasons, but those options are there to give the customers who purchased the game a choice.

    Whether it was a bug or not, there is undeniable fact that 4.8 and 4.9 handle skin differently. And a lot of products in this store were designed for Daz 4.8, before 4.9 came along. So there are absolutely cases where being able to use 4.8 is preferable to 4.9. I tried 4.9 on a laptop. I tried rendering some of my scenes. They looked AWFUL. My scenes were designed with 4.8 in mind, and 4.9 completely and utterly destroys them. I don't care how many totally awesome features 4.9 adds, it makes my stuff look bad, and I would have to manually adjust every single character in every single scene to compensate. Does that sound reasonable to you? Because it does not to me. I must be alone in this observation, but I think that is insane to expect end users to do that.

    So why can't that be done for Daz Studio? You already have the switch for the Iray bug, its inside Daz 4.8! No need to get it from Nvidia when you already have it. (Or did you guys delete all existance of 4.8 from your code? Just like you deleted all existance of Decimator for 4.8...) Customers should be able to have the option to boot Daz in which Iray version you prefer. PERIOD. Its a customer support issue.

    When Daz 5.0 comes along, will Iray change yet again? Will 5.0 bring even more "enhancements" to Iray that totally blow up all the settings done in 4.9? And then you have 3 completely different versions of Iray depending on which version of Daz Studio you have? This is a legitimate question. 

  • Rather than asking people to completely redo their lighting in every scene they have saved previously in 4.8, Daz 4.9 could use a render option that emulates Daz 4.8. Notice I said "emulate." That would would be the best way, and it would tempt a whole lot of holdouts to finally make that upgrade to 4.9.

    The change is in Iray - if nVidia didn't provide a switch to turn the bug back on then there's nothing Daz can do at that level, and I'm not sure that it would be possible to write a custom SSS routine in a shader that woudl mimic the bug (and if it was it would be extrremely slow, I imagine).

    When I install a video game, I am given a choice to run that game with several different API. Many games can run on DirectX11, 10 and even 9, all without needing to reinstall the game. Now in order to switch API, you do need to reboot the game. But that's all. Now why do they offer these options? Some people might prefer the older API. Maybe their PCs are not good enough to run the newest API, maybe the game's framerate runs faster in the older ones, and as you should know, framerates are king. Who knows, it could be any number of reasons, but those options are there to give the customers who purchased the game a choice.

    Whether it was a bug or not, there is undeniable fact that 4.8 and 4.9 handle skin differently. And a lot of products in this store were designed for Daz 4.8, before 4.9 came along. So there are absolutely cases where being able to use 4.8 is preferable to 4.9. I tried 4.9 on a laptop. I tried rendering some of my scenes. They looked AWFUL. My scenes were designed with 4.8 in mind, and 4.9 completely and utterly destroys them. I don't care how many totally awesome features 4.9 adds, it makes my stuff look bad, and I would have to manually adjust every single character in every single scene to compensate. Does that sound reasonable to you? Because it does not to me. I must be alone in this observation, but I think that is insane to expect end users to do that.

    So why can't that be done for Daz Studio? You already have the switch for the Iray bug, its inside Daz 4.8! No need to get it from Nvidia when you already have it. (Or did you guys delete all existance of 4.8 from your code? Just like you deleted all existance of Decimator for 4.8...) Customers should be able to have the option to boot Daz in which Iray version you prefer. PERIOD. Its a customer support issue.

    When Daz 5.0 comes along, will Iray change yet again? Will 5.0 bring even more "enhancements" to Iray that totally blow up all the settings done in 4.9? And then you have 3 completely different versions of Iray depending on which version of Daz Studio you have? This is a legitimate question. 

    The change is inside the Iray render engine, in nVidia's code.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 4,436
    edited March 2017

    This type of issue is why I simply gave up on new 3D technology. indecision  Not only do you now have to have a degree in computer science, graphic technology, and the physics of light, you also have to be up to speed on the imperfections of previous versions of the technology and the kludges necessary to keep the wheels on the rails because nobody thought it was important enough to warn us we were doing it wrong, or help us with adequate documentation and compatability buttons. frown  It's like the "Straw that breaks the camel's back".  It's the "It's just one more thing to know" syndrome. 

    I am an old techie who is fast becomming a luddite and enjoying the bliss of ignorance while playing in my ancient but familiar sandbox. cool  It's saving me a lot of money in new products I don't need to buy. yes

     

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • inquireinquire Posts: 514

    I know what you mean, LeatherGryphon. I have the same feelings, sometimes. Just a note of sympathy.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 7,636

    We need a "Like" button.  LG's post... #1

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 25,126

    ...seconded. 

    It's even more difficult when you are both a visual artist and an old techie.  Never had to worry about all the numbers involved when applying paint to canvas.

    Back in the1.8 - 2.3 days with just 3DL, and the standard lights it was a lot of fun.  Now like LG mentions it's becoming so bloody technical.. though true, if you can get it down, you can turn out some pretty amazing stuff.

    As to dealing with the "orange" skin issue, I simply adjust the Gamma in the Image editor and it seems to work pretty well.

  • R1CH1R1CH1 Posts: 78

    so what exactly do I need to create a realistic model?   I get a base figure, a character bundle, and then what?  Play with the surface, lighting and render settings?   Are there magic shaders or something I should know about?    What do I need and where can I read to find out how its done?

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 6,679
    R1CH1 said:

    so what exactly do I need to create a realistic model?   I get a base figure, a character bundle, and then what?  Play with the surface, lighting and render settings?   Are there magic shaders or something I should know about?    What do I need and where can I read to find out how its done?

    Basically to start just download DAZ Studio, the Genesis 3 Essentials (which should include the Genesis 3 Female and the Genesis 3 Males and basic hair and a clothing sample and baser shader/material presets and other beginner items for free), convert the 3DL skin textures to Uber Iray (in the Content Library tab in the subfolder Shader Presets - they are in alphabetic order) or apply an iRay native skin texture preset (look under materiels when using the Smart Content Tab with a DAZ model selected in your scene) and do a closeup iRay render of the face using the default settings. The default settings are setup up nicely for a potrait style render with a nice generic portrait style bachground.

  • PetPet Posts: 524

    I am less than impressed with the latest version of DS 4.9 and those new skins. I also did not get an update in DIM for V7. 

    What is the big deal with this dead looking eyes on G8 and the flat skin that everyone is liking so much?

    Either I do something really wrong or my DS is not playing nice.

    Lights that always looked good in the previous version of DS suddenly changed, but not for the better.:(

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 6,679
    Pet said:

    I am less than impressed with the latest version of DS 4.9 and those new skins. I also did not get an update in DIM for V7. 

    What is the big deal with this dead looking eyes on G8 and the flat skin that everyone is liking so much?

    Either I do something really wrong or my DS is not playing nice.

    Lights that always looked good in the previous version of DS suddenly changed, but not for the better.:(

    You're massivingly overlighting or underlighting your scene to not see the obvious improvements.

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 500
    Pet said:

    I am less than impressed with the latest version of DS 4.9 and those new skins. I also did not get an update in DIM for V7. 

    What is the big deal with this dead looking eyes on G8 and the flat skin that everyone is liking so much?

    Either I do something really wrong or my DS is not playing nice.

    Lights that always looked good in the previous version of DS suddenly changed, but not for the better.:(

    Try V8, G8's shader is still the old one, V8 would be the breakthrough you might be looking for :)

     

  • will.barger.artswill.barger.arts Posts: 56
    edited July 2017

    Seems like there's a near-infinite number of factors and combinations-of-factors required to make a full comparison of the established Genesis 3 Female with the new Genesis 8 Female.

    But, because our crew focuses mostly on generating 'realistic" imagery, we're at least initially interested in how renders look more than posability, backward compatibility with assets, etc.

    So ... attached is a composite of two renders comparing G3F v. G8F "headshots" produced on an "apples to apples" basis.  (Characters were loaded "out of the box" with no changes other than closing the eyes to facilitate direct comparisions of skin realism, etc.  The lighting is the "comes with" Environment Map using Dome Only at default settings.  There is no post-processing other than compositing, copying-and-converting the original color images to grayscale for "exposure" comparisons, and the addition of the text.)

    Hope y'all find these test images useful.

    Looking forward to reading other ideas from everyone on G3 v. G8 

    RUSSELL
    For Will Barger Arts

    WBA_Compare_GF3-GF8_OOB_01.jpg
    1600 x 1600 - 946K
    Post edited by will.barger.arts on
  • will.barger.artswill.barger.arts Posts: 56
    edited July 2017

    2;kj/a093'a

    Post edited by will.barger.arts on
  • AndySAndyS Posts: 1,270
    edited August 2017

    Hi,

    Looking forward to reading other ideas from everyone on G3 v. G8

    I agree.

    But it is worth to invest some fiddling with parameters. That way I succeeded to this (for G8F):

     

    Post edited by AndyS on
  • timsw6timsw6 Posts: 18
    edited August 2017
    Pet said:

    I am less than impressed with the latest version of DS 4.9 and those new skins. I also did not get an update in DIM for V7. 

    What is the big deal with this dead looking eyes on G8 and the flat skin that everyone is liking so much?

    Either I do something really wrong or my DS is not playing nice.

    Lights that always looked good in the previous version of DS suddenly changed, but not for the better.:(

    I do agree. Really frustrating when lights and skins are dramatically  altered in 4.9.  - I'm also finding alot of noise in Iray on M8's skin. Trial and error I guess . I can see some 'photorealism' in the grainy new skins but no better than what was acheivable in previous versions. On a plus side I do like the body shape of M8.

     

    Post edited by timsw6 on
  • mahhenmahhen Posts: 44

    Ok, i'm not sure is my skin problen also related to this 4.9 "bug fix" (i'm still noob so dont know :D ). Well anyway,  i have been creating my characters using standard camera headlamp and sometimes iradiance lightprobes and i have been getting nice results.  But, my problem is this, when i move my character to scene i have build and scene has different lighting in it, my character skin looks too dark and it has almost waxy and dead look in it. 

    Ou, i forgot to mention, i use 4.9 on this computer and i have created most of my characters on 4.9, some are from my older computer that has 4.8.

    So i move my character from lighting: standard headlamp or iradice lightprobe (brightness-e, i think it's not that high)

    to lighting: for example, condominium and it's standard lighting+iray ghost lights 400k + outside has fm easy enviroments iray green hills, (room is well lit). My character that looked perfect when i created it looks now different. Why?, is this 4.9 problem. Room looks ok, but skin looks different. Or is this lighting issue, does ghost lights lumen character differently (i'm noob). 

    Should character created in 4.9, that looks ok in standard headlamp look the same in another scene or do i have to battle skin issues in every scene. I have already have to adjust some of my characters when i moved them from 4.8 and now i'm not sure that i did it correctly.

    Is there skin settings to 4.9 something like this https://toyen-art.deviantart.com/art/Daz-Studio-Iray-Skin-Shader-Settings-Outdated-532976349 ; what we need to do? iray uber base?

    Need help, as noob i don't understand the scale of the problem, i only have notised it in some of my saves and characters from 4.8. Dont even know is it good idea to buy items from store that haven't been updated to 4.9. Can we adjust 4.8 character to look ok also  in 4.9.

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