January 2016 New User 3D Art contest “Composition” (WIP Thread)

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  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 821
    edited January 2016
    Fishtales said:

     

    edited.
    Post edited by Teofa on
  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 4,116
    Rafmer said:
    Linwelly said:
    Rafmer said:

    Welcome to the contest Rafmer, you started with a lovely render with an awesome amount of wilderness, I guess my computer would overheat at that.. Now the question is what story do  you want to tell with your image. While I like looking at it there is nothing to keep my interest. Are the man and the horse just relaxing, enjoying free time? are they on the run looking out for enemies? Try to put a bit of drama in your story. You could use different brightness for this for example

    Thanks for the welcome! About the story behind, it's supposed to be a stop in the journey, for relaxing and getting the arse off the horse saddle :P. I didn't want to focus the figures too much, hence the low DoF but I don't want them to remain unnoticiable (does this word even exist?). What do you mean by different brightness? a brighter whole scene? a specific lightning for the figures? or just a a different ambient lightning?

    I will try to explain, about lights as compositional tool, but as I'm not a pro further reading from the link list is recommended wink.  For this I used the http://www.daz3d.com/parkside-tube-station, just the basic thing (comes with a light set to begin with). For completion I have the first render with the camera going pretty straight though the tunnel, even this has some ways to direct attention through the image. In the second Image I moved the camera position so that the tunnel opening is placed close to the upper left thirds grid intersection, while the other direction tools still apply.

    The next step is ligh. Up to here I used the preset lights as they are, resulting in a more or less evenly distributed grey. The following are two examples to further direct the view, first ar light coming through a set of doors at the end of the station, and the last with the lights from within the tube tunnel. In this one I dimmed the lights closer to the camera. These are simple examples just to illustrate what I mean with composition with light.

     

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  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 3,943
    Teofa said:
    Fishtales said:

    I hate Grids and composing to Grid.  Yes, Chohole's image doesn't hit the "magical" intersections, yet a person's eye still drawn in to the focal.. a man angry about the depredations of a whole lot of escaped piggies.

    Teofa said:

    I watch too many people mechanically plug in "interesting" items at each point, following some "rule", and ending up with a cluttered, ininspired mess.

    They aren't "rules" despite the title.  They are rough guidelines.  Art is not Rigid.

    You made an unfortunate faux pas in your argument there. The church tower and the man are both on the left thirds line and the man in the white shirt, who is drawing the eye, is on the intersection between the left third and bottom third so is using, intentionally or not, the rule of thirds. There are also lead in lines from the two bottom corners. The left one from the pigs running off in that direction, and from the bottom right, from the cart moving off in that direction, that intersect at the man running towards the white shirted man.

    Fishtales said:

    We, as humans, see things that balance and that is why the rules are there. Yes they can be broken but then something else comes into play to balance the image or else it doesn't work and will always look as if there is something wrong with it.

    Talk to Chohole.  She is the one that made the statement.  Did you not read the context?  Whatever.  Carry On. 

    "I might add, in all honesty, that it isn't a very good example of Compostion, as meant by the theme for this month.  As seen in the 2nd (incomplete)  version, not much falls on a golden line to give focal points."

     

     

    "

    Teofa said:

    "I hate Grids and composing to Grid.  Yes, Chohole's image doesn't hit the "magical" intersections, yet a person's eye still drawn in to the focal.. a man angry about the depredations of a whole lot of escaped piggies."

     

    This is what I was answering, not Pam's statement. You were the one who said not to use the rules and yet pointed out in Pam's image the very fact that it does work because your eyes are drawn to the man in the white shirt who is on, or very near, one of those intersections.

    I did read Pam's post hence the reason I said this in my post.

    "so is using, intentionally or not, the rule of thirds."

    That was also the reason I answered your post and not hers.

  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 821
    edited January 2016

    The tunnel is a great example Linwelly.

    As to that other matter, I prefer the "rule" of Lumpy Donuts, which is hardly a "rule".   I don't believe in composing to rigid gridlines. I'm not alone.

    https://photographylife.com/the-myth-of-the-rule-of-thirds

    Rule-of-Thirds-Blur-no-edges-960x640.jpg
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    Post edited by Teofa on
  • RafmerRafmer Posts: 468
    Linwelly said:

    I will try to explain, about lights as compositional tool, but as I'm not a pro further reading from the link list is recommended wink.  For this I used the http://www.daz3d.com/parkside-tube-station, just the basic thing (comes with a light set to begin with). For completion I have the first render with the camera going pretty straight though the tunnel, even this has some ways to direct attention through the image. In the second Image I moved the camera position so that the tunnel opening is placed close to the upper left thirds grid intersection, while the other direction tools still apply.

    The next step is ligh. Up to here I used the preset lights as they are, resulting in a more or less evenly distributed grey. The following are two examples to further direct the view, first ar light coming through a set of doors at the end of the station, and the last with the lights from within the tube tunnel. In this one I dimmed the lights closer to the camera. These are simple examples just to illustrate what I mean with composition with light.

     

    Thanks for the explanation and examples. I will try something of what you have said.

  • Teofa said:

    This seems a silly amount of stress over a compound bow grip that really isn't pertinent to a fantasy era and world.

    Particularly as she is wearing what basically is a leather one piece swimsuit. "No serious Archer I know does that".  Or any True Scotsman.

    Fantasy doesn't have to be dictated to the limits of our real world.  Thank Goodness.

    I spent 30 years in the Horse business as an AQHA exhibitor, trainer, instructor and judge.  I could rip apart a huge amount of images using the Millinium Horse and equipment. It is that bad.  I don't.  No point to it.   Like the SCA people who rip apart most Fantasy armors and weapons from an historical (and correct) viewpoint can tear down images containing most of the DAZ female armor made.  Why bother?  Incorrect does not lessen the impact and popularity of images, games and other art using it.  In the same way that "incorrect" bow grips did not destroy the visual impact of the Archers at Helms Deep.

    I could also argue that perfectly coiffed and immaculate makeup on Perfect 10's wearing designer Lingerie while doing mundane domestic chores is not Reality.  No one I know does that.  But again, why point that out?

    Oh well.  Do what you wish.  I'm not questioning changing the grip.  I'm questioning the reason why from a broader perspective. For much of the art world "because not real" is not really a valid criticism.

    From my view and posted here because critique is what happens here.  I hate to see minor RL niche correctness thrown onto the already full plate of the new user.

     

    I really don't get why people argue about things like this.  It isn't that the grip matters that much to the overall picture.  It is that that one thing that doesn't just look right or feel right to the artist needs to be fixed.  It doesn't matter what that thing is and most others probably wouldn't notice or complain about it anyway and others will pick it apart, of the I might agree.  If HitMan or Sonja or Isidorn or lucasdestoop or any of us frets over a piece of our render puzzle then we fret until it is fixed to our satisfaction.  It has nothing to do with whether it is historically accurate or fits the fantasy or any of another other possibilities.  It has to do with it fits the image in our head or in our imaginings.  The goal is to attempt to see in a render what we see in our heads.  I've been there on every single one of my submissions where I've fiddled and tweaked because there was just something that wasn't quite right or the way I imagined it to be.  If we take your post at face value, we should all just slap our renders together and not try to learn from our efforts.  I thought we were here to learn and explore and to, hopefullly, produce artwork that we as an artist or hobbyist or whatever name you want to give yourself can be proud that we managed to acheive.  If that isn't why we are here, then, to quote you, "why bother"?

    If HitMan or anyone else asks for help and I have the expertise to help, I will.  If someone I've offered to help no longer wants that help, I'm perfectly willing to back off no hurt feelings or feelings of being slighted.  What I'm not willing to do is stand back and tell someone that their render isn't historically accurate or isn't real and doesn't need to be perfect so I'm not willing to help if I can.  It is very rare that I'm actually proficient in anything in this 3D world, but I have gotten good at posing and I can bring a lot of years of experience in a wide variety of activities that most people have never tried like archery or spinning or a number of other activities that other might consider odd.  So, if help is wanted, I will offer it and I will give it gladly because I'm willing to share what little bit I DO know.  I am now off my soapbox and I won't be responding to any posts that want to start a debate over what an artist should or shouldn't concern himself or herself.  It is his or her artwork and, in the end, he or she is the one that must be satisfied with the final result and no one else.

  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 821
    Rafmer said:
    Linwelly said:

    I will try to explain, about lights as compositional tool, but as I'm not a pro further reading from the link list is recommended wink.  For this I used the http://www.daz3d.com/parkside-tube-station, just the basic thing (comes with a light set to begin with). For completion I have the first render with the camera going pretty straight though the tunnel, even this has some ways to direct attention through the image. In the second Image I moved the camera position so that the tunnel opening is placed close to the upper left thirds grid intersection, while the other direction tools still apply.

    The next step is ligh. Up to here I used the preset lights as they are, resulting in a more or less evenly distributed grey. The following are two examples to further direct the view, first ar light coming through a set of doors at the end of the station, and the last with the lights from within the tube tunnel. In this one I dimmed the lights closer to the camera. These are simple examples just to illustrate what I mean with composition with light.

     

    Thanks for the explanation and examples. I will try something of what you have said.

    This is a really great image using light as a composition tool outdoors.

    http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/97520

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  • HitManWAHitManWA Posts: 152

    So mauch drama. Thanks knittingmommy, I really appreciate the help.

     

    I got married a few years ago, I don't understand why she gets mad when I go on dates with other people. Not sure why people participate in a contest knowing the rules then complain about the rules. Anyways, good luck to all in the contest, have a great weekend.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,230
    edited January 2016

    What say we keep the discussion civil and on topic?

    I hope we did not choase @HitManWA away; we're here to learn not argue.

    I may revisit my first image, but I really wanted to go outside my normal comfort zone... so I tried this:

    cyborg.jpg
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    Post edited by Chohole on
  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 821

    What say we keep the discussion civil and on topic?

    I hope we did not choase @HitManWA away; we're here to learn not argue.

    I may revisit my first image, but I really wanted to go outside my normal comfort zone... so I tried this:

     

    The cyborg seems stiff.  Maybe his right arm?  Interesting to speculate on this meeting.

  • HitManWAHitManWA Posts: 152

    What say we keep the discussion civil and on topic?

    I hope we did not choase @HitManWA away; we're here to learn not argue.

    No, not at all. It's all good, no worries on my end. Appreciate all the feedback. I had originally asked about it because I've seen some get issues with hand poses, particularily in regards to guns, get criticized. That was all. I wish everyone well in the contest and have a great weekend.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,230

    @HitManWA, where is the main light coming from in your archer image?

     

    I like what's revealed of the archer, but its a little strong on the bow.  Seems like you could maybe move the light back so it falls more on her head, but keep the same angle... if that makes any sense.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,354

    What say we keep the discussion civil and on topic?

    I hope we did not choase @HitManWA away; we're here to learn not argue.

    I may revisit my first image, but I really wanted to go outside my normal comfort zone... so I tried this:

    Isthe human awake?  I wonder how it would look if he is reaching out to the borg as well?  Just a thought.  Really like this scene though either way

  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 821
    edited January 2016

    "Yrch..amin can fira sen, Ayr'Dal"   1st draft.

     

     

    Yrch.jpg
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    Post edited by Chohole on
  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,230

     

    I hope we did not choase @HitManWA away; we're here to learn not argue.

    I may revisit my first image, but I really wanted to go outside my normal comfort zone... so I tried this:

    Isthe human awake?  I wonder how it would look if he is reaching out to the borg as well?  Just a thought.  Really like this scene though either way

    Well, the idea was to have some ambiguity as to the staus of the human: alive? Sleeping? But the focus is supposed to be on the apparent devotion of the "machine".

  • SaphirewildSaphirewild Posts: 4,579

    What say we keep the discussion civil and on topic?

    I hope we did not choase @HitManWA away; we're here to learn not argue.

    I may revisit my first image, but I really wanted to go outside my normal comfort zone... so I tried this:

    What an interesting meeting going on here!!! Makes my eyes wonder all over this amazing render!!

  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 821

    @Saphirewild  Did you get your image posting fixed?

     

  • SaphirewildSaphirewild Posts: 4,579

    I am going to try again here...... Nope it is a PNG file and only 600x600 image just keeps saying uploading but it doesn't upload at all

  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 821
    edited January 2016

    I am going to try again here...... Nope it is a PNG file and only 600x600 image just keeps saying uploading but it doesn't upload at all

    Ok, I had that problem last week and was told to remove all spaces from the title and use a jpg.  It fixed it.  Odd, I had spaces before and have used them after.. but that particular jpg just would not load with a space in it.   Endless loading message.

    Post edited by Teofa on
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 3,943

    If it is the file name then have a read at this.

    http://www.mtu.edu/umc/services/web/cms/characters-avoid/

  • SaphirewildSaphirewild Posts: 4,579
    Teofa said:

    I am going to try again here...... Nope it is a PNG file and only 600x600 image just keeps saying uploading but it doesn't upload at all

    Ok, I had that problem last week and was told to remove all spaces from the title and use a jpg.  It fixed it.  Odd, I had spaces before and have used them after.. but that particular jpg just would not load with a space in it.   Endless loading message.

    okies I amgoing to try again then now that I changed the title a bit

  • SaphirewildSaphirewild Posts: 4,579
    edited January 2016

    Here it goes: (Thanks Teofa for the help)

    Yay it finally went now I needs lots of feedback on this image to improve it!!!

    WinterWonderlandOlaf2.jpg
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    Post edited by Saphirewild on
  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 821
    edited January 2016

    Yay!

    Would you consider moving your characters off center.. to the right?  Just a suggestion.  Not sure what that Crow is up to.  You can't trust them.

    Post edited by Teofa on
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,354

    Here it goes: (Thanks Teofa for the help)

    Yay it finally went now I needs lots of feedback on this image to improve it!!!

    Whew glad you got that sorted.  First think I notice is that the two main figures look a bit like they are floating, not quite anchored to the ground. And there are not shadows at all which I think is contributing to the floating feeling.

     

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,354

     

    I hope we did not choase @HitManWA away; we're here to learn not argue.

    I may revisit my first image, but I really wanted to go outside my normal comfort zone... so I tried this:

    Isthe human awake?  I wonder how it would look if he is reaching out to the borg as well?  Just a thought.  Really like this scene though either way

    Well, the idea was to have some ambiguity as to the staus of the human: alive? Sleeping? But the focus is supposed to be on the apparent devotion of the "machine".

    Then ignore my suggestion lol.  It works fine the way it is my mind just works in weird and mysterious ways.  I do agree with the above the arm looks a bit awkward, maybe move the hand up just a bit and bring the elbow in more toward the waist? I held my hand up like I was reaching to touch something and the elbow doesn't go out to the side. But I am not a machine either.  And please, take anythign I say with a grain of salt.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,230

     

    I hope we did not choase @HitManWA away; we're here to learn not argue.

    I may revisit my first image, but I really wanted to go outside my normal comfort zone... so I tried this:

    Isthe human awake?  I wonder how it would look if he is reaching out to the borg as well?  Just a thought.  Really like this scene though either way

    Well, the idea was to have some ambiguity as to the staus of the human: alive? Sleeping? But the focus is supposed to be on the apparent devotion of the "machine".

    Then ignore my suggestion lol.  It works fine the way it is my mind just works in weird and mysterious ways.  I do agree with the above the arm looks a bit awkward, maybe move the hand up just a bit and bring the elbow in more toward the waist? I held my hand up like I was reaching to touch something and the elbow doesn't go out to the side. But I am not a machine either.  And please, take anythign I say with a grain of salt.

    I am working on the posing of the cyborg, it was definetly lacking. And I am always open to suggestion, I considered how I might pose the human, but as I thought about it I realized it changed the tone of the image completely. Wanted to stick with the original, cool, somewhat detached but not sort of thing I had going on. Also changing the diffuse weighting on the glass so it shows some of the detail, but I get a bit of reflection of the cyborg.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,230
    Teofa said:

    "Yrch..amin can fira sen, Ayr'Dal"   1st draft.

     

     

    Very interested to see where you go with this. Hesitant to make any critique at the moment.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,230

    Here it goes: (Thanks Teofa for the help)

    Yay it finally went now I needs lots of feedback on this image to improve it!!!

    Lights are definetely in need of some attention, they will help with that floating.  What do you have for lights here? This is 3Delight, yes?

  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 821
    edited January 2016
    Teofa said:

    "Yrch..amin can fira sen, Ayr'Dal"   1st draft.

     

    Very interested to see where you go with this. Hesitant to make any critique at the moment.

    I had to laugh,sorry.  Where am I going?  Probably off on tangent, cause this is where I started.  Actually, I'm going to add some leaning and more focus to the characters, cut down the plastic on the aluminum tree branches, add some yellow light to give some life to thier skin, and render at my better settings.  And whatever else comes up.  I don't bite unless the grids start getting overlaid on my work.

    Oh, and I'll have to shop that car antenna bend in that little branch.

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  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,354
    Teofa said:

    "Yrch..amin can fira sen, Ayr'Dal"   1st draft.

     

     

    I like the sense of activity in this like they are just getting ready to fight but may be *discussing* somet things first.

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