January 2016 New User 3D Art contest “Composition” (WIP Thread)

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  • KA1KA1 Posts: 878

    Hi all.  I've tended to avoid the New User threads, but... I can always learn something, so here I am braving the waters.

    Compostion is something I could sorely use some work on.  I labored over this for quite a while, and I'm still not happy with it.

    What do you think?

    I'm liking this image, I'd be tempted to play around with different expressions (Lovable rogue, cheeky bounty hunter, hardcore mercenary type ideas) to see which you thin fits the story you are telling best. On another note, where did you get that gun?? It is AWESOME!

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,230
    KA1 said:

    Hi all.  I've tended to avoid the New User threads, but... I can always learn something, so here I am braving the waters.

    Compostion is something I could sorely use some work on.  I labored over this for quite a while, and I'm still not happy with it.

    What do you think?

    I'm liking this image, I'd be tempted to play around with different expressions (Lovable rogue, cheeky bounty hunter, hardcore mercenary type ideas) to see which you thin fits the story you are telling best. On another note, where did you get that gun?? It is AWESOME!

    Thanks, KA1. I may have another go at the expression.  The gun comes with the clothes, Hardcore M4 (I think its also in Hardcore (for M3) as M4 was basically an update of that; I don't know what exactly changed).

  • KA1KA1 Posts: 878

    Okay at least right now you can SEE the scene lol.  Still need to work on the lighting and I am in the process of fixing the fireplace flames. Turning the coals off and going to turn the fire sideways so it looks like the flames are going the right way lol.  Have added a chaise and moved things around a bit . I will be adding a cat, or maybe a dog, or need to fill up the mantle as well. I haven't even touched the textures on anything yet. And I need to fix the skirt on her dress

     

    I've been looking to see if I had this set to see how the fireplace is set up - I may have it, no idea! Anyway, with regards to making the fireplace emissive - iRay sometime does this intelligently and other times needs a little manual work to sort out - essentially, rather than ussing the emissive shader I always just use the iRay Uber Base, once applied there should hopefully be a JPEG picture for the fire in the surfaces (Normally this is the "Base colour" JPEG in the 3DL settings), if you place this in the Emission channel and switch the emission colour from black to white it will apply the image for emission rather than the emission shader which just creates a block - I've tried to lay out an example here:

    EmissionSetting.jpg
    777 x 660 - 245K
  • KA1KA1 Posts: 878

    Okay at least right now you can SEE the scene lol.  Still need to work on the lighting and I am in the process of fixing the fireplace flames. Turning the coals off and going to turn the fire sideways so it looks like the flames are going the right way lol.  Have added a chaise and moved things around a bit . I will be adding a cat, or maybe a dog, or need to fill up the mantle as well. I haven't even touched the textures on anything yet. And I need to fix the skirt on her dress

     

    I've been looking to see if I had this set to see how the fireplace is set up - I may have it, no idea! Anyway, with regards to making the fireplace emissive - iRay sometime does this intelligently and other times needs a little manual work to sort out - essentially, rather than ussing the emissive shader I always just use the iRay Uber Base, once applied there should hopefully be a JPEG picture for the fire in the surfaces (Normally this is the "Base colour" JPEG in the 3DL settings), if you place this in the Emission channel and switch the emission colour from black to white it will apply the image for emission rather than the emission shader which just creates a block - I've tried to lay out an example here:

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,340
    KA1 said:

    ight now you can SEE the scene lol.  Still need to work on the lighting and I am in the process of fixing the fireplace flames. Turning the coals off and going to turn the fire sideways so it looks like the flames are going the right way lol.  Have added a chaise and moved things around a bit . I will be adding a cat, or maybe a dog, or need to fill up the mantle as well. I haven't even touched the textures on anything yet. And I need to fix the skirt on her dress

     

    I've been looking to see if I had this set to see how the fireplace is set up - I may have it, no idea! Anyway, with regards to making the fireplace emissive - iRay sometime does this intelligently and other times needs a little manual work to sort out - essentially, rather than ussing the emissive shader I always just use the iRay Uber Base, once applied there should hopefully be a JPEG picture for the fire in the surfaces (Normally this is the "Base colour" JPEG in the 3DL settings), if you place this in the Emission channel and switch the emission colour from black to white it will apply the image for emission rather than the emission shader which just creates a block - I've tried to lay out an example here:

    That will be most helpful thank you!  Will probably not get back to the pc til tomorrow sometime - i seem to have come down with the flu.  Which means once I get home I will be in bed with the laptop instead of on the pc lol.  (and yes, i know I should rest but its such a WASTE of time! )

  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 821
    KA1 said:

    Hi all.  I've tended to avoid the New User threads, but... I can always learn something, so here I am braving the waters.

    Compostion is something I could sorely use some work on.  I labored over this for quite a while, and I'm still not happy with it.

    What do you think?

    I'm liking this image, I'd be tempted to play around with different expressions (Lovable rogue, cheeky bounty hunter, hardcore mercenary type ideas) to see which you thin fits the story you are telling best. On another note, where did you get that gun?? It is AWESOME!

    Thanks, KA1. I may have another go at the expression.  The gun comes with the clothes, Hardcore M4 (I think its also in Hardcore (for M3) as M4 was basically an update of that; I don't know what exactly changed).

    His jaded expression is one of the best parts.  I hope it isn't replaced with a trope.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,340

    "Here's To Us"

    Inspired by the Halestorm song. Iray render (I still haven't quite figured out Iray lighting). Tankard and frame were modeled in Carrara. Postwork in Photoshop.

    Me neither.  I am on page 8 of the iray tips and tricks page and its making my head spin.  I like this, you convey deep feeling with this image.

    Evilded777 I agree I like this angle better.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,340

    Shinji, is the ball of fire coming from the gun or from the demon?  If its coming from the gun have you considered changing it to ice or electricity?  If its a fire demon its going to probably be immune to fire based weapons.  He looks like he would be quite at home in a blazing inferno.

  • Teofa said:

    @evilded777

    There is so much nice older V4 M4 stuff.  I like messing with them because they are worth it, generally have interesting textures instead of mixers. Textures are fun to play with.

    The small changes you did made a lot of difference.  I see now he is aggressively in wait with a purpose.  Also clear now he is on an a tilted set with that camera angle, which helps to explain his angle, not clear before.

    Nice.

    I agree about M4 and V4 Teofa, in fact most of the time I still use those guys and gals in my creations. (This months hero is an example of just that.)

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,230

    Okay at least right now you can SEE the scene lol.  Still need to work on the lighting and I am in the process of fixing the fireplace flames. Turning the coals off and going to turn the fire sideways so it looks like the flames are going the right way lol.  Have added a chaise and moved things around a bit . I will be adding a cat, or maybe a dog, or need to fill up the mantle as well. I haven't even touched the textures on anything yet. And I need to fix the skirt on her dress

     

    Ice Dragon, I know you got some good advice early on about Tone Mapping, but one of the other pieces of information that is really critical to any PBR render (like Iray) is not to rely on your physical light sources to provide the total illumination of your scene.  You have to realize that the renderer is like a camera, not your eyes.  You may be able to see perfectly well in a room that is lit with a fireplace, some sconces and a chandelier... but a camera may not be able to take a very good picture with that available light.  When moving into physically based rendering you need to start thinking a little bit more like a photographer or film maker.  You are going to need spotlights and pointlights to light your scenes... even outdoors with a nice bright HDRI providing illumination, you are going to have add some fill, or something. Ok.. maybe not always, and some people can pull it off without it... but us mere mortals need the extra light. And with it, you can turn down the visible light sources and make them look a little less like burning death rays (that was a joke, not a critique).

  • KA1KA1 Posts: 878

    Tone mapping can help, I very often have the ISO between 200 - 400 for interior scenes, but like @evilded777 pointed out above creating some meshlights/softboxes to fill out the lighting can really help out without having to mess too much with tone mapping - the interior scene below has a single 4x2 trough light for the corridor from IG Iray Lights and Shaders - Architectural Lights, 2 scounces in the room from an iRay lighting props pack, a central ceiling light from the iRay Architectural Lighting rig and a HDRI from Skies of iRadiance - Night Sky HDRIs for Iray (set to 0.26 intensity) for light from the (unable to see them!) windows. I was pleasantly surprised at how the lighting turned out as I was happy with the setup I just let my lighting test render run to this result.

  • RafmerRafmer Posts: 466
    edited January 2016

    Hi! I've been around for like a year and wanting to enter a contest for quite a good time too. Now, since it looks contest lessons are starting again with the new year, I have made my mind up for the task and, here is my entry WIP render.
    Don't mind the glow on the trees, I just forgot to tweak that materials after the iray conversion.

    lake.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 852K
    Post edited by Rafmer on
  • KA1KA1 Posts: 878
    Rafmer said:

    Hi! I've been around for like a year and wanting to enter a contest for quite a good time too. Now, since it looks contest lessons are starting again with the new year, I have made my mind up for the task and, here is my entry WIP render.
    Don't mind the glow on the trees, I just forgot to tweak that materials after the iray conversion.

    This is an epic image, I look forward to seeing it without the tree glowy bits as currently they are an unfortunate distraction on an otherwise beautiful image!
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,340

    Okay at least right now you can SEE the scene lol.  Still need to work on the lighting and I am in the process of fixing the fireplace flames. Turning the coals off and going to turn the fire sideways so it looks like the flames are going the right way lol.  Have added a chaise and moved things around a bit . I will be adding a cat, or maybe a dog, or need to fill up the mantle as well. I haven't even touched the textures on anything yet. And I need to fix the skirt on her dress

     

    Ice Dragon, I know you got some good advice early on about Tone Mapping, but one of the other pieces of information that is really critical to any PBR render (like Iray) is not to rely on your physical light sources to provide the total illumination of your scene.  You have to realize that the renderer is like a camera, not your eyes.  You may be able to see perfectly well in a room that is lit with a fireplace, some sconces and a chandelier... but a camera may not be able to take a very good picture with that available light.  When moving into physically based rendering you need to start thinking a little bit more like a photographer or film maker.  You are going to need spotlights and pointlights to light your scenes... even outdoors with a nice bright HDRI providing illumination, you are going to have add some fill, or something. Ok.. maybe not always, and some people can pull it off without it... but us mere mortals need the extra light. And with it, you can turn down the visible light sources and make them look a little less like burning death rays (that was a joke, not a critique).

    Hahaha its funny you say that because until I turned the side lamps down they DID look like burning death rays!!  I am on page 8 I think of the Iray tips for newbies and I think I am starting to kind of understand how some of it works.  Wether I can put it in practice as another thing entirely lol.

    So in 3Delight I just dropped my spot light or pin light where I wanted the extra light, is the principal the same?  I know how to use mesh lights in Reality and the pin and spot lights in 3Delight. Does Iray even have light lightls or do I need ot create something like a sphere or whatever (I know, totally newbie question but i honestly have no idea)

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,340

    Very cool Ka1!  Love the mystery and suspense conveyed.

    Rafmer love the serenity in this scene.  and welcome to both you and evilded777 its great to have new faces this month.

     

  • Shinji, is the ball of fire coming from the gun or from the demon?  If its coming from the gun have you considered changing it to ice or electricity?  If its a fire demon its going to probably be immune to fire based weapons.  He looks like he would be quite at home in a blazing inferno.

    The fire was from the gun. I tried to swap it out for something else and messed a bit with the bloom settings.

    jan2016e.jpg
    1026 x 872 - 877K
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,340

    Shinji, is the ball of fire coming from the gun or from the demon?  If its coming from the gun have you considered changing it to ice or electricity?  If its a fire demon its going to probably be immune to fire based weapons.  He looks like he would be quite at home in a blazing inferno.

    The fire was from the gun. I tried to swap it out for something else and messed a bit with the bloom settings.

    I think that works a bit better and its easier to see as well.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,340
    edited January 2016

    Changed things around a bit.  The umbrella is attached to the side table with no way to separate or hide parts.  I can, if necessary render the umbrella table seperate and add it postwork if all else fails.  So, does the layered image editor not work in Iray?  I did some grunge on her feet but its not showing at all.

    Last Stop.png
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    Post edited by IceDragonArt on
  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,230

    Okay at least right now you can SEE the scene lol.  Still need to work on the lighting and I am in the process of fixing the fireplace flames. Turning the coals off and going to turn the fire sideways so it looks like the flames are going the right way lol.  Have added a chaise and moved things around a bit . I will be adding a cat, or maybe a dog, or need to fill up the mantle as well. I haven't even touched the textures on anything yet. And I need to fix the skirt on her dress

     

    Ice Dragon, I know you got some good advice early on about Tone Mapping, but one of the other pieces of information that is really critical to any PBR render (like Iray) is not to rely on your physical light sources to provide the total illumination of your scene.  You have to realize that the renderer is like a camera, not your eyes.  You may be able to see perfectly well in a room that is lit with a fireplace, some sconces and a chandelier... but a camera may not be able to take a very good picture with that available light.  When moving into physically based rendering you need to start thinking a little bit more like a photographer or film maker.  You are going to need spotlights and pointlights to light your scenes... even outdoors with a nice bright HDRI providing illumination, you are going to have add some fill, or something. Ok.. maybe not always, and some people can pull it off without it... but us mere mortals need the extra light. And with it, you can turn down the visible light sources and make them look a little less like burning death rays (that was a joke, not a critique).

    Hahaha its funny you say that because until I turned the side lamps down they DID look like burning death rays!!  I am on page 8 I think of the Iray tips for newbies and I think I am starting to kind of understand how some of it works.  Wether I can put it in practice as another thing entirely lol.

    So in 3Delight I just dropped my spot light or pin light where I wanted the extra light, is the principal the same?  I know how to use mesh lights in Reality and the pin and spot lights in 3Delight. Does Iray even have light lightls or do I need ot create something like a sphere or whatever (I know, totally newbie question but i honestly have no idea)

    Use the lights the same way.  You can use mesh emitters, but using spotlights is easier... you have the advantage of being able to look through the light to aim it exactly where you want it, and with the lights in Iray you can change the shape to be a rectangle or a disc, etc.  In my image I have two spotlights: the bright light from the back is a small rectangle that is very focused and from the front is a large disc with a wide spread angle to provide a nice soft, diffuse light from the front.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,340

    Okay at least right now you can SEE the scene lol.  Still need to work on the lighting and I am in the process of fixing the fireplace flames. Turning the coals off and going to turn the fire sideways so it looks like the flames are going the right way lol.  Have added a chaise and moved things around a bit . I will be adding a cat, or maybe a dog, or need to fill up the mantle as well. I haven't even touched the textures on anything yet. And I need to fix the skirt on her dress

     

    Ice Dragon, I know you got some good advice early on about Tone Mapping, but one of the other pieces of information that is really critical to any PBR render (like Iray) is not to rely on your physical light sources to provide the total illumination of your scene.  You have to realize that the renderer is like a camera, not your eyes.  You may be able to see perfectly well in a room that is lit with a fireplace, some sconces and a chandelier... but a camera may not be able to take a very good picture with that available light.  When moving into physically based rendering you need to start thinking a little bit more like a photographer or film maker.  You are going to need spotlights and pointlights to light your scenes... even outdoors with a nice bright HDRI providing illumination, you are going to have add some fill, or something. Ok.. maybe not always, and some people can pull it off without it... but us mere mortals need the extra light. And with it, you can turn down the visible light sources and make them look a little less like burning death rays (that was a joke, not a critique).

    Hahaha its funny you say that because until I turned the side lamps down they DID look like burning death rays!!  I am on page 8 I think of the Iray tips for newbies and I think I am starting to kind of understand how some of it works.  Wether I can put it in practice as another thing entirely lol.

    So in 3Delight I just dropped my spot light or pin light where I wanted the extra light, is the principal the same?  I know how to use mesh lights in Reality and the pin and spot lights in 3Delight. Does Iray even have light lightls or do I need ot create something like a sphere or whatever (I know, totally newbie question but i honestly have no idea)

    Use the lights the same way.  You can use mesh emitters, but using spotlights is easier... you have the advantage of being able to look through the light to aim it exactly where you want it, and with the lights in Iray you can change the shape to be a rectangle or a disc, etc.  In my image I have two spotlights: the bright light from the back is a small rectangle that is very focused and from the front is a large disc with a wide spread angle to provide a nice soft, diffuse light from the front.

    Oh good that will make things a bit easier thank you!  My second image (the last stop) has the Mars Iray dome so I haven't actually touched the lighting on it yet.  Might need to lower the inensity a bit will have to play around with that. Thanks for the help!

     

  • SaphirewildSaphirewild Posts: 4,552
    edited January 2016

    Here is my WIP for this months contest I know I have a load of work ahead of me with shadows and such but I wanted your opinions about my composition of this render before I go any futher with it.

     

    For some reason my pic will not upload and it is only 600x600 so not sure what is going on

    Post edited by Saphirewild on
  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 821

    Here is my WIP for this months contest I know I have a load of work ahead of me with shadows and such but I wanted your opinions about my composition of this render before I go any futher with it.

     

    For some reason my pic will not upload and it is only 600x600 so not sure what is going on

    Do you have a space in the .jpg title, and make sure it is not a .bmp.  The forums will hiccup on spaces in titles every so often.  Did for me last week.

  • HitManWAHitManWA Posts: 152
    edited January 2016

    Currently where I"m at. Ice Dragon made me think about more detail which I don't do enough of. Still thinking about this one and how to make it better. Thanks all,

     

    ArcherComp.png
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    Post edited by HitManWA on
  • This is my first time trying one of these contests, so please forgive me if I do something stupid. This is my entry.

    "Here's To Us" - Inspired by the Halestorm song.

    I'm pretty happy with it overall, but the lighting in Iray washes out some of the detail on his face. His skin in DAZ Studio looks more weathered. I'd welcome any suggestions for acheiving an "old, weathered, world-weary" look.

    Thanks.

    -John

     

  • KA1KA1 Posts: 878

    @evilded777 

    I can see where @Teofa was coming from now, with those adjustments you've made the existing expression seems to make more sense to me than before when I made my initial suggestion, the image is really coming along very nicely indeed. Have you tried it with some subtle depth of field? I'm not sure if it would need it but a subtle amount may just make the character pop a little more from the background and give a bit more depth, just a thought as it is something I'd try!! Loving the lighting too!!

  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 821
    edited January 2016

    @KA1 If you don't mind steampunk-ish, Ghastly has a pistol in his free space cowboy set that contrasts nicely in dark environments.  motphs to 3 different bbl lengths.  Thread in Freepository.

    lapd blaster.jpg
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    Post edited by Teofa on
  • RafmerRafmer Posts: 466
    edited January 2016

    Ok, thanks for the comments. Here is the image again without that glowing bits.

    lake2.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 703K
    Post edited by Rafmer on
  • AtiAti Posts: 6,046
    Rafmer said:

    Ok, thanks for the comments. Here is the image again without that glowing bits.

    Wow, this looks really nice. I like all the wildlife in the picture. Nice balance of colors, as well.

    Are the trees actual props? If they are, how well is your computer handling it?

    I was surprised to see a horse drinking water last night, as my image has a horse drinking water, too. :) After seeing your image, I got a little discouraged, as my image looks nothing like yours. I'll post it anyway. :)

  • AtiAti Posts: 6,046

    This is my first time trying one of these contests, so please forgive me if I do something stupid. This is my entry.

    "Here's To Us" - Inspired by the Halestorm song.

    I'm pretty happy with it overall, but the lighting in Iray washes out some of the detail on his face. His skin in DAZ Studio looks more weathered. I'd welcome any suggestions for acheiving an "old, weathered, world-weary" look.

    Welcome! :) I like the overall look of the image. I like the composition as well, it immediately tells the story. My only suggestion would be for the mug. It looks really strange to me. In fact, if he wasn't holding ip up like this, I would not even have said it was a mug.

  • AtiAti Posts: 6,046

    Even though his left hand is not cut into, it looks like it is. How would this look with a little more space on the right side of the image?

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