Help me build my new DAZ computer
dracorn
Posts: 2,333
I've got a pretty good budget for a very nice computer setup, but it won't get me quite so far as everything I want... so I'm looking for some expert suggestions as to which configuration would work best with DAZ. (Primary use is 3Delight, not sure about IRAY because I don't like the way the hair looks). I'm only worrying about the processor, RAM and video cards here. Your comments are appreciated!
1. Configuration: Ultimate
Intel Haswell-E Core i7-5930K LGA2011-3, 6 core processor
DDR4 32GB 3000MHz QUAD P RAM
EVGA GTX 980Ti 6GB video card
I can only add one more item to this configuration, so it's either going to be 32GB more RAM for a total of 64, or a second GTX 980Ti video card. There might be a possibility of getting a second video card in the future if I opt for the 32GB, but then again I might be saving my pennies for a copy of Zbrush - unless Blender will work just as well.
2. Configuration: Mid Range
Intel Core i7-5820 LGA2011 6 core processor
DDR4 32GB 2800MHz QUAD P RAM
EVGA GTX 980Ti 6GB video card
Again, I can't afford both the extra 32GB RAM and the second video card so which one?
3. Configuration: Affordable Whole Package
Intel Core i7-5820 LGA2011 6 core processor
DDR4 32GB 2666Mhz QUAD P RAM
EVGA GTX 980Ti 6GB video card
This configuration would put me about $200 over budget for both 64GB RAM and the two GTX 980Ti video cards, but I can make it work.
I typically buy as much power as I can afford, and hold onto my machine as long as possible before upgrading - takes a while to save up that many pennies. My current PC (God rest its soul) was 7 years old before it passed... We held a memorial service and then without shame are excitedly buying a new one.
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Comments
For both Daz Studio and Cararra, the video card is less important than the CPU and RAM since they use software based rendering. Your graphics card is more than you need for Daz Studio, but nice if you plan to use it for gaming as well. It might help for IRAY renders, since that is an Nvidia technology, but I am not sure. For the CPU, faster is better, but there is not a huge difference between a 3.3GHz and 3.5GHz. You might also consider an AMD CPU, you could get a 4.7GHz 8 core CPU for less than either of the ones you have listed. Finally RAM, I suggest the fastest DDR4 your motherboard will support. I would also add RAM before a second graphics card. Two graphics cards are really only useful for dedicated high end gaming computers.
I forgot to ask what operating system you plan to use. For 64 bit Windows 8 and above you are fine with 32 or 64 MB of RAM. For Windows 7, you need the 64 bit Pro, Enterprise, or Ultimate to handle that much memory.
Thanks I really appreciate this! I recal reading somewhere that Intel is better than AMD for graphics... perhaps a Photoshop site. If you've had experience otherwise, I will go ahead and get a faster AMD processor.
Errr... I was just checking AMD 8 core processors, even this one: AMD AM3+ FX-9590 Eight Core 4.7/ 5 Ghz 220w, only supports DDR3, up to 1866. Bummer - looks like I'll be sticking with Intel.
If you use Iray at all, ever, you want NVIDIA card, because Daz has a special GPU rendering mode that only works on NVIDIA cards. (You can certainly use CPU rendering anyway, but it's not as fast)
If you don't ever intend on using Iray, then, well, nevermind. ;)
Every computer I have built or bought since 2001 has had an AMD CPU. Since you have a larger budget than I do, the Intel CPU and faster DDR4 memory is probably better for you.
Thanks, guys! I want to keep the IRAY option open, so I will stick with the single GTX 980Ti video card, the Intel Processor and 64 GB of the fastest Ram possible.
I also want to get my hands a 3Dconnexion 3D mouse - have you seen those? You use it with your other hand, and it works in tandem with your regular mouse to move in a 3D environment in 3 directions at once. It's DAZ compatible (but not ZBrush unfortunately). Check it: http://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacemouse/spacenavigator.html
I have a 3Dconnexion, I ended up not using it much because it doesn't work with Unreal Engine. I didn't know you could use it in DAZ, I'll have to try it out :)
Also, you already decided to get only one 980Ti....I got two this week, and then found out my 750W power supply wasn't enough to run both of them (it worked fine for my two 970s). Should have checked this before ordering! So now I have to go get an 850W one, bleh.
Just a quick note. DAZ3D is the Company Daz Studio (DS) is the program
Heh, yes, Daz Studio, that's what I meant..... Same kind of thing happens on Oculus Rift forums, people will post things like "I can't wait to get my own Oculus!" and then there's a bunch of irritated replies saying "Don't call it that, Oculus is the company, Oculus Rift is the product" :)
Thanks! My main focus is art rather than gaming, so I am looking for the best configuration for Daz Studio (got it right this time), Photoshop/GIMP, and Blender. I was looking at getting an 850W power supply anyway. So now I am set upon getting the fastest processor with DDR4's, preferably 64 GB if I can swing it. I might go down to the regular GTX 980 if there isn't much difference in rendering time between that and a GTX 980Ti.
I'll be getting advice from the guy at Fry's - apparently they will help me pick out my components then put it together for a nominal $46 fee... and considering that there's a Fry's next street over from where I work, can't beat that. eCollegePC.com offers some pretty good deals too, but I don't like the idea of having to ship the machine back if something goes wrong.
I'd stick with Intel for the processor; I'd be tempted to go for option 1; and if you are using the graphics card for rendering via IRAY get a second card. You could also consider a dual processor xeon as an alternative, which would give reasonable rendering speeds irrespective of the renderer used, but I doubt you budget stretches to it. There are now octo-core processors for their enthusiast range, but again it depends on your budget.
If you are certain about what you are going to be using for rendering, and it will be via graphics cards (cuda cores perhaps) then you don't really need the extreme range that intel produce, and would likely be fine with a good mainstream i7. One or even two graphics cards will not tax a haswell range processor. As an example, for some time, good mid-range gaming rigs have been produced using the unlocked i5 with normally one good gfx card.
I certainly wouldn't get less than 32MB of RAM with a haswell, or even an i7. You're unlikely to need more with a single processor, although it depends if you are going to use it for rendering, and how big your scenes will be. Just don't be tempted to turn off swap memory like I've seen recommended if you use an SSD; if you do, and you do run out of memory, your system will crash. You could add memory later if you discovered you needed it. The same might apply to a second gfx card; see what your needs are; adding a secong card that is purely for rendering is very simple. And if you plan on rendering with your cards, don't use SLI mode for NVidia's card, there can be issues.
Thanks. I want to keep the IRAY option open, but right now the hair looks terrible. I have invested in textures for 3Delight, so I will be experimenting with what looks best. I've been doing a little research, and it doesn't look like AMD can use DDR4s, so I probably will stick with Intel as you suggested. The Intel/DDR4 64GB/GTX 980 options are stretching my budget, so I probably won't be able to take advantage of the second processor. I'll only be running one screen, but I am considering upgrading to one of those ultra-wide screens.
As far as rendering is concerned - is there much difference between 4 and 6 core processors?
A quick note from me...
A "gaming" computer will often be the best computer for graphic work, especially for 3D rendering.
All three of the OP's configurations will probably be just fine for this type of work.
I would wholeheartedly DISAGREE now with those who say the video card is not important. iRay, you may not like it "right now", but it will be the industry standard in a few years; of this I am certain. When that happens, you'll want to use it. Plus, iRay can use your Nvidia card for rendering duties NOW. So go with an Nvidia card (or two) no matter what you do.
i7 CPUs are a great choice, and modern i7's are the best choice. I advise against the use of AMD CPU chips. Don't be seduced by the cheap prices of AMD; only tales of sadness, slow performance, and woe in the moonlight will come from such a choice! The company is doing terribly now too; I am waiting for AMD to ask for a bailout or go bankrupt just about any minute now, so I would not put my eggs in that basket.
32GB of RAM is a great starting point! Do that and eat a healthy meal before the good stuff in your fridge goes bad. With modern textures and HD meshes, the capacity of your RAM is more important than any small differences in speed. If you can swing the cash, go with 64 GB now, that way you won't have to try to match RAM in a couple years. Kraft Macaroni and Cheese will keep you and your other humans alive long enough to be able to save up for real food, and if you get tired of Mac-n-Cheeze, I can swear by B&M Baked Beans (in the stylish glass jar).
Disk - I highly recommend that you put in an SSD. Right now. It will make booting and loading programs, meshes, and textures go very very quickly. Ignore the soothsayers who speak of write-cycle limitations; they are overblowing the severity of the issue, either because they are ignorant, or because they would be jealous if you upgraded before they did. And don't be a cheapskate; make your SSD a 1TB model, and add a 2TB model when the prices go below $600 USD, which might be in about 12-18 months.
Go hungry if you have to, to make this happen, but don't let it make you miss any insurance or mortgage payments.
The GTX 980 has 2048 CUDA cores, while the 980Ti has 2816, so it should be significantly faster. A lot of the review sites say it's close in performance to a Titan X which has 3072 cores (while being a whole lot cheaper :) If you ever decide to add a second one in the future, then that will double your rendering speed as long as your scene still fits within the 6GB of GPU memory (Iray has to store the scene on both cards for rendering, so your processing power is doubled with a second card but not your memory capacity).
Based on everyone's advice, I made some adjustments - this works with my budget. Thanks everybody for your suggestions!
4. Configuration: DAZ Studio
Intel Core i7-5820 LGA2011 6 core processor
DDR4 32GB 2666MHz QUAD P (x2 for a total of 64GB)
EVGA GTX 980Ti 6GB video card (single with option to add another later)
1TB Samsung 850Evo SSD 3D NAND FLASH hard drive
4 TB regular hard drive for backup/storage
Nicely done!
And...extra-credit points for thinking about backups right off the bat! But...I would not use the same physical hard drive for both backups AND general storage. Your backup drive should be separate, and should have ONLY backups on it. And you should have 2 or 3 of them so that you can revolve them and maybe keep one offsite.
So I'd suggest this: Get another 1TB drive (either SSD or HDD, depending on budget) for added storage, for a total of 2TB.
Then add two backup drives, either 2TB each or 4TB each, depending on budget.
I seriously do not get where you folks constantly get the notion from that Intel processors are better for graphics then an AMD. Frankly, stick to base facts and the AMD has just as much power doing graphics as the processor you currently selected, but that intel costs a hell of a lot more. So can we please keep the intel fanboy opinions out of every computer discussion?
My AMD FX6350 Hexcore with 16Gb ram has no issues with DS and each core runs at 3.5 Ghz. I bought this unit right before the switch to Iray, not knowing that I'd need an Nvidia card to speed up the rendering and Iray CPU rendering it handles without a hiccup. (Radeon R270 2Gb graphics card) Now I'm saving up to replace that card, due to the advantage it gives in rendering speed, but the processor doesn't even run hot while rendering.
I currently own a 1TB external hard drive, with which I backed up my old PC just before it died, so I am with you on that one, thanks. I will keep the external drives as the backups, and was considering storing one in a safe deposit box...
I was considering AMD, but none of the options available at Fry's (even the 8 core), appeared to support DDR4 RAM - only the Intel processors did. I'm all for saving money, and in fact, my current PC (rest its soul) had an AMD processor. It was faithful for 7 years, but struggled with Daz Studio. Considering that I hold onto a PC for a long time before upgrading, I want to get the most power for my buck right now. I do really appreciate everyone's suggestions, and my configuration is in no way set in stone.
One thing I'd say is that if you plan to upgrade your RAM be sure you don't fill all your DIMM slots at first, else you'll be replacing all your RAM. Id your have, say 4 DIMM slots try and get 2 x 8GB RAM, then 'all' you need get when you upgrade is two nore of the same (if you get 4 x 4GB, you'd need to toss those and get 4 x 8GB).
I too am in the process of building a new system, and having no experience with SSD drives do you install your operating system and all programs on them and just keep saved files on the HDD, ex: install DS on SSD and keep library on second HDD, install Zbrush on SSD and save files to reg HDD.... or do you install and save everything on the SSD and just do backups to second HDD or do you install only the operating system to the SSD and everything else to second HDD? Sorry if this sounds stupid but I want to be sure I get my new system set up properly right from the start
Nope - I'm going to fill up all 8 DIMM slots with 8GB sticks for a total of 64 GB RAM.
Yeah, what she said! I have no idea about this either. I assumed I would load my operating system and D/S on the SSD. Will D/S freak if I put my library on the HDD? I was initially planning on storing my renders, etc on the HDD. Since I'm planning on purchasing a 1TB SSD, it should be able to handle all my D/S content.
I strongly suggest to put your library on another drive and just the programs themselves on the SDD. The fuller a harddrive gets, the slower it becomes and since your entire system is only as fast as it's slowest part...
The 3Dconnexion is excellent! I get better compositions & it saves a lot of time. I love that that you can fluidly move, rotate, zoom, raise & lower the camera all at once with your left hand while your right hand remains free for selecting, etc. I would estimate it speeds up my camera work by about 5x and I spend a lot of time tweaking compositions.
With regards to 3delight, I've no idea; depends if the program is written to take advantage of the extra cores, and how many extra cores it was programmed to use. The think about using IRAY and similar, one knows that are designed to advantage of whatever is their; there are scaling issues with adding extra cards, but seem to be good with regrads to IRAY.
Depends, SSDs get faster, whereas mechanical get slower as the fuller it gets the more the central parts of the platters are used which spin slower.
I use SSDs; I have mechanicals for backups. I make lots of backups.
They are like normally HDs in use, other than they are much faster; depending on how the system is configured they can wear out quicker if settings are messed with; don't defrag them, don't use secure erase software on them, especially if it does multiple writes. Good SSDs should have some sort of wear-leveling (it evens out wear over the drive); this means that data can get shifted so securing eraseing something that has moved is an even bigger waste of time. You can use encryption software on them, and the only extra wear is the once-off pass as the data is encryped. Windows 8.1 and presumably Windows 10 should handle SSDs correctly, older versions may or may not; I've no idea with mac OS X and generally new versions of Linux should also handle em correctly but check specific distros.
The base facts reliably show that for 3D rendering (the type of graphics performance that is relevant here), current Intel CPUs are faster than current AMD CPUs. No amount of fanboyism either way (or accusations thereof) can alter the base facts.
In this review of the AMD FX-9590 (mentioned above) the 8-core AMD is handily beaten by a 4-core Intel.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8316/amds-5-ghz-turbo-cpu-in-retail-the-fx9590-and-asrock-990fx-extreme9-review/6
That's just the base fact of floating point grunt. If you can find a review showing any AMD processor anywhere near the Intel Core i7-5820 for 3D rendering, please do link it.
I would love for AMD to become competitive in this area. Competition is good for the consumer, especially for those with no brand / platform loyalty.
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Here's my final PC!!
Processor: Intel Core i7-5820K LGA2011 Unlocked Processor (3.3 GHz, 6 core)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 LGA2011-3 "Thunderbolt Ready" Motherboard (SDI ready if I want to add another graphics card)
Memory: Patriot Viper Xtreme Edition DDR4 32GB 4X8GB 2400MHz PX432G240C5QK (x2: Total 64 GB RAM)
Graphics: EVGA GeForce 980 Ti SC+ ACX 2.0+ Graphics Card 2816 CUDA Cores, 6GB GDDR5
SSD: 1TB SAMSUNG 850 Pro Series MZ-7KE1T0BW 2.5" SATA III Internal (10 year warranty)
HDD: WD Desktop Mainstream 3TB Internal Hard Drive Retail Kit (2 of these)
Liquid Cooling: Cosair Hydro H110i GT Large 280mm Radiator (Liquid Cooling, dual fan)
Power Supply: Corsair HX Series HX1050 Power Supply 1050 Watt 80 PLUS Gold Certified Modular PSU
Blue Ray: ASUS 16X BDRW SATA
Case: Corsair 760T Mid Tower ATX PC Computer Case [This is an excellent case! It easily opens to dust].
Case Fans: Corsair Air Series AF140 Purple LED Case Fan [I know, purple. But it really looks cool. I'm going to pick up some custom dust filters].
O.S.: Microsoft Windows 10 Professional OEM 64bit [Ugh. Well, it's a clean install and I'm learning to live with it. At least I can tell it when to upgrade].
The total price (including tax and a UPS) was $3,800.00. I went to Fry's and worked with an expert to pick out all my components, so this is not a package system with some options, but a totally custom one. They charged me $100 to put it together and I get to keep the rebates.
How's it run? SWEET! It renders very fast. It's also whisper quiet and cool until I make the processor work, then the radiator fans kick up. The case also has a 2-speed fan control. Boy does it heat up the office in the summer! Windows is relegated to one of the HDD's, which leaves the SSD for DAZ Studio and my other graphics programs exclusively. Now I have been devoting my time to really learning rendering, lighting, etc. (WOW, lots to learn). Having fun!