Alvin Bemar's Gescon: Very close but not usable :(

Dolce SaitoDolce Saito Posts: 154
edited November 2022 in Product Suggestions

I hope Alvin Bemar can hear this out;

... Close... Very close! But not exactly what I've been looking for. Can you help me out?

For years, I've been trying to come up with a script which creates wound effects on objects/figures. Long story short, decals doesn't do the job. The closest realism I can get is to use mCasual's mTailorChalk script to create a displacement map to "emulate" wounds. Unfortunately, displacement maps has two serious limitations: First, they can only imitate depth 90 degrees of the surface, and second, they are very time consuming to create. I have been looking something like "tunneling" effect with angles. I even had loooOOooOOoong chats with mCasual himself.

... And the day came where I discovered "gescon" product. Directly purchased it without even blinking an eye. It "has" exactly what I want: (the "difference" feature), but only on a limited level. This product can be a game changer, but, unfortunately it has a very serious missing feature: It doesn't work on the original object! Is it possible to apply "difference" without creating a new object ? (I.e: Can it modify the existing object?). Also, like tailorChalk, can it work only on selected bones' geometry, so it won't take ancient time?

 

Gescon is very close to what I need, but with the way it currently works can't be used in animations... Any ideas? Or product revisions? Or is there a product I am unaware of which does this?

Post edited by Dolce Saito on

Comments

  • AlbertoAlberto Posts: 1,403

    Dolce Saito said:

    I hope Alvin Bemar can hear this out;

     I heard you (or read you).

    Gescon was designed to create static objects. But, maybe... Let me think.

    I planned to update Gescon by the next year (I don't know when). I'm taking note of your post. Maybe I could do something.

  • Dolce SaitoDolce Saito Posts: 154
    edited November 2022

    Wow! Thanks a lot! In a nutshell:

    - Any of the tools (difference is the only tool I personally use) modifying main object with exact same bone / surface / geometry structure with your added magic. (Note: I work with sub-centimeter particles)

    - Tool working on selected bone(s) geometry instead of going all the object's geometry.

    I already had goosebumps just by being able to reach to you. I hope these can come alive. Consider the new updated features downloaded/bought. If there is anything else I can support you with, please let me know.

     

    Edit: OMG, I've just noticed the Fisio is also released by you (how did I miss this?) Basically, merging these wishes with the possible soft-body physics would be a dream for Daz studio itself. Then anyone can basically create a projectile and fire it towards any surface!

    - Dolce

    Post edited by Dolce Saito on
  • AlbertoAlberto Posts: 1,403

    Thank you, Dolce.

  • My problem with Gescon is that it's not showing up in my list of apps requiring serial numbers IAW the Gescon manual and I bout the product a year ago.

  • AlbertoAlberto Posts: 1,403

    dannavy85_6336e4e4 said:

    My problem with Gescon is that it's not showing up in my list of apps requiring serial numbers IAW the Gescon manual and I bout the product a year ago.

    Did you install the plugin besides the content?

    The plugin is the product Gescon: Constructive Solid  Geometry for Daz Studio 4.5+ (Win 64-bit) (or Mac 64-bit)  as listed in the DIM.

     

    There is no manual installation in your Product Library.

    Dim.png
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  • functionfunction Posts: 279

    Dolce Saito said:

    I hope Alvin Bemar can hear this out;

    ... Close... Very close! But not exactly what I've been looking for. Can you help me out?

    For years, I've been trying to come up with a script which creates wound effects on objects/figures. Long story short, decals doesn't do the job. The closest realism I can get is to use mCasual's mTailorChalk script to create a displacement map to "emulate" wounds. Unfortunately, displacement maps has two serious limitations: First, they can only imitate depth 90 degrees of the surface, and second, they are very time consuming to create. I have been looking something like "tunneling" effect with angles. I even had loooOOooOOoong chats with mCasual himself.

    ... And the day came where I discovered "gescon" product. Directly purchased it without even blinking an eye. It "has" exactly what I want: (the "difference" feature), but only on a limited level. This product can be a game changer, but, unfortunately it has a very serious missing feature: It doesn't work on the original object! Is it possible to apply "difference" without creating a new object ? (I.e: Can it modify the existing object?). Also, like tailorChalk, can it work only on selected bones' geometry, so it won't take ancient time?

     

    Gescon is very close to what I need, but with the way it currently works can't be used in animations... Any ideas? Or product revisions? Or is there a product I am unaware of which does this?

    what wounds you want, a real 3D cutting wound? If so, I thought you could first prepare a '>' like 3D prop as the open wound, with meat and blood inside. Then I would recommend you to use the Cutout Opacity method, you can use one freebie I posted before to make the cutout map, and put your 3D prop in the same area.  This means, the cutout map cut the body surface, and the 3D prop fill the blank.

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/540946/introduce-my-digipad-easier-than-lie

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,959

    I guess geografted wounds are possible too

  • Dolce SaitoDolce Saito Posts: 154

    function said:

    Dolce Saito said:

    I hope Alvin Bemar can hear this out;

    ... Close... Very close! But not exactly what I've been looking for. Can you help me out?

    For years, I've been trying to come up with a script which creates wound effects on objects/figures. Long story short, decals doesn't do the job. The closest realism I can get is to use mCasual's mTailorChalk script to create a displacement map to "emulate" wounds. Unfortunately, displacement maps has two serious limitations: First, they can only imitate depth 90 degrees of the surface, and second, they are very time consuming to create. I have been looking something like "tunneling" effect with angles. I even had loooOOooOOoong chats with mCasual himself.

    ... And the day came where I discovered "gescon" product. Directly purchased it without even blinking an eye. It "has" exactly what I want: (the "difference" feature), but only on a limited level. This product can be a game changer, but, unfortunately it has a very serious missing feature: It doesn't work on the original object! Is it possible to apply "difference" without creating a new object ? (I.e: Can it modify the existing object?). Also, like tailorChalk, can it work only on selected bones' geometry, so it won't take ancient time?

     

    Gescon is very close to what I need, but with the way it currently works can't be used in animations... Any ideas? Or product revisions? Or is there a product I am unaware of which does this?

    what wounds you want, a real 3D cutting wound? If so, I thought you could first prepare a '>' like 3D prop as the open wound, with meat and blood inside. Then I would recommend you to use the Cutout Opacity method, you can use one freebie I posted before to make the cutout map, and put your 3D prop in the same area.  This means, the cutout map cut the body surface, and the 3D prop fill the blank.

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/540946/introduce-my-digipad-easier-than-lie

    I have already been doing something similar, with mcTailorChalk and displacement maps. But, they have their own limitations. The decals won't work in any way, because they tend to "slip" around, even though they are parented to the correct limb. Difference is what I really need. Boolean difference on figures are really one pinky finger space ahead with gescon. But it has a few things that prevents it from becoming so. I already had a friendly chat with the owner. I am waiting on those.

  • Dolce SaitoDolce Saito Posts: 154
    edited May 2023

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    I guess geografted wounds are possible too

    I'm not aware of this way. I can give it a try. Any place you can advise me to look into?  Like a tutorial etc?

     

    Thanks for the both answers.

    Post edited by Dolce Saito on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,959

    Dolce Saito said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    I guess geografted wounds are possible too

    I'm not aware of this way. I can give it a try. Any place you can advise me to look into?  Like a tutorial etc?

     

    Thanks for the both answers.

    to be honest, I have never tried to make a geograft myself  either, only used ones made by others 

  • functionfunction Posts: 279

    Dolce Saito said:

    function said:

    Dolce Saito said:

    I hope Alvin Bemar can hear this out;

    ... Close... Very close! But not exactly what I've been looking for. Can you help me out?

    For years, I've been trying to come up with a script which creates wound effects on objects/figures. Long story short, decals doesn't do the job. The closest realism I can get is to use mCasual's mTailorChalk script to create a displacement map to "emulate" wounds. Unfortunately, displacement maps has two serious limitations: First, they can only imitate depth 90 degrees of the surface, and second, they are very time consuming to create. I have been looking something like "tunneling" effect with angles. I even had loooOOooOOoong chats with mCasual himself.

    ... And the day came where I discovered "gescon" product. Directly purchased it without even blinking an eye. It "has" exactly what I want: (the "difference" feature), but only on a limited level. This product can be a game changer, but, unfortunately it has a very serious missing feature: It doesn't work on the original object! Is it possible to apply "difference" without creating a new object ? (I.e: Can it modify the existing object?). Also, like tailorChalk, can it work only on selected bones' geometry, so it won't take ancient time?

     

    Gescon is very close to what I need, but with the way it currently works can't be used in animations... Any ideas? Or product revisions? Or is there a product I am unaware of which does this?

    what wounds you want, a real 3D cutting wound? If so, I thought you could first prepare a '>' like 3D prop as the open wound, with meat and blood inside. Then I would recommend you to use the Cutout Opacity method, you can use one freebie I posted before to make the cutout map, and put your 3D prop in the same area.  This means, the cutout map cut the body surface, and the 3D prop fill the blank.

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/540946/introduce-my-digipad-easier-than-lie

    I have already been doing something similar, with mcTailorChalk and displacement maps. But, they have their own limitations. The decals won't work in any way, because they tend to "slip" around, even though they are parented to the correct limb. Difference is what I really need. Boolean difference on figures are really one pinky finger space ahead with gescon. But it has a few things that prevents it from becoming so. I already had a friendly chat with the owner. I am waiting on those.

    yes, slip is a problem, I tried rigid method before, also has a little bit slip problem. But the cutout map will not slip, so how about put a bloody cylinder ( '>' cutted) inside the limb?

    geograft I never used, but yesterday I saw a thread talked about this, here: https://zonegfx.com/forums/topic/any-good-tutorials-for-geografts/

    they also talked about Mesh grabber, I thought this is an idea, maybe you can try to modify the limb by Mesh grabber, then save as a custom morph.

  • Dolce SaitoDolce Saito Posts: 154
    yes, slip is a problem, I tried rigid method before, also has a little bit slip problem. But the cutout map will not slip, so how about put a bloody cylinder ( '>' cutted) inside the limb?

    geograft I never used, but yesterday I saw a thread talked about this, here: https://zonegfx.com/forums/topic/any-good-tutorials-for-geografts/

    they also talked about Mesh grabber, I thought this is an idea, maybe you can try to modify the limb by Mesh grabber, then save as a custom morph.

    I tried cutout before. Unfortunately, it causes light to enter into the figure, so that is a no go. Mesh-grabber is not animatable, so that limitation eliminates the option.

  • functionfunction Posts: 279

    Dolce Saito said:

    yes, slip is a problem, I tried rigid method before, also has a little bit slip problem. But the cutout map will not slip, so how about put a bloody cylinder ( '>' cutted) inside the limb?

    geograft I never used, but yesterday I saw a thread talked about this, here: https://zonegfx.com/forums/topic/any-good-tutorials-for-geografts/

    they also talked about Mesh grabber, I thought this is an idea, maybe you can try to modify the limb by Mesh grabber, then save as a custom morph.

    I tried cutout before. Unfortunately, it causes light to enter into the figure, so that is a no go. Mesh-grabber is not animatable, so that limitation eliminates the option.

    Yes, you are right, cutout doesn't work, light enter problem.

    I made a quick test, the Geograft method works, see attachments.

    I cutted a small piece of leg surface, bridge to Blender, Boolean it, save as .obj, import the obj to DAZ, use Transfer Utility to add bones on it, then Geometry Editor to assign the graft as the toturial, finally Fit it to the figure, done, no slip anymore. 

    wound test.jpg
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    wound test2.jpg
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  • Dolce SaitoDolce Saito Posts: 154

    Wow, thanks for the showcase. I like the result. However, this is nowhere integratable for my projects. The reason is that doing this is too expensive for each wound. However, I will try to toy with this method just to check. Thanks.

  • functionfunction Posts: 279

    Dolce Saito said:

    Wow, thanks for the showcase. I like the result. However, this is nowhere integratable for my projects. The reason is that doing this is too expensive for each wound. However, I will try to toy with this method just to check. Thanks.

    Sounds like your figure has many big wounds on the body? Can not imagine how it looks like. Maybe you can bridge the whole figure to Blender, Boolean it and send back to DAZ for once, then add bones to it. 

  • Dolce SaitoDolce Saito Posts: 154
    edited May 2023

    function said:

    Dolce Saito said:

    Wow, thanks for the showcase. I like the result. However, this is nowhere integratable for my projects. The reason is that doing this is too expensive for each wound. However, I will try to toy with this method just to check. Thanks.

    Sounds like your figure has many big wounds on the body? Can not imagine how it looks like. Maybe you can bridge the whole figure to Blender, Boolean it and send back to DAZ for once, then add bones to it. 

    It is actually the other way around, figure has many small wounds, each appearing on different frames. Switching to Blender, coming back, creating different objects for every wound frame, switching their visibility is an extremely expensive operation.

    I really wish for the future that the studio will have the boolean difference operation built-in.

    Post edited by Dolce Saito on
  • functionfunction Posts: 279

    Dolce Saito said:

    function said:

    Dolce Saito said:

    Wow, thanks for the showcase. I like the result. However, this is nowhere integratable for my projects. The reason is that doing this is too expensive for each wound. However, I will try to toy with this method just to check. Thanks.

    Sounds like your figure has many big wounds on the body? Can not imagine how it looks like. Maybe you can bridge the whole figure to Blender, Boolean it and send back to DAZ for once, then add bones to it. 

    It is actually the other way around, figure has many small wounds, each appearing on different frames. Switching to Blender, coming back, creating different objects for every wound frame, switching their visibility is an extremely expensive operation.

    I really wish for the future that the studio will have the boolean difference operation built-in.

    Well, that's the question I asked at beginning, if they are small wounds, why not just draw them on the base map, use the 'digipad' tool, it will be so easy and real, never slip. 

  • Dolce SaitoDolce Saito Posts: 154

    It comes to my answer, I am using tailorChalk with displacement. But they have their own limitations.

  • functionfunction Posts: 279

    I thought for small wounds, no need displacement, just put layer on the Base map, Translucency map and Glossy map is enough. If really needs depth, then put a layer on the Bump map or Normal map.

    smallWound.jpg
    892 x 821 - 358K
  • ChumlyChumly Posts: 793

    couldn't you use meshgrabber to make the shape of the wound?

  • Dolce SaitoDolce Saito Posts: 154

    (@Chumly: it is not animatible)

    function: I don't think you got my requirement. Most of my projects has some chase scenes where there are close-ups of see-throughs for the wounds. As soon as see-through is the case, the normal, base and bumps are out of question. If it is a grazing wound, then see through is possible at the edge of the objects/skin only with displacement. That is why, I suggested to alvin a few things about gescon (we had the discussion in private already). Consider there are multiple see-through wounds spread across different frames. At this point, only displacement is the option for now (which I am using) but it has its limitations.

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