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Surely I don't :) It's just a hobby.
Well, I bought v3 and her accoutrements, but I really don't see the "next generation" aspects of her, to be honest. What makes this its own new generation? If she had been a g2 character, I don't know that I'd see the difference. Those in the know, what makes her next gen?
the additional bones in particular are a nice addtion. She's got more bones in the neck and limbs, and lots of control points in the head for expressions.
Is this something everyone needs? prolly not. For people who critique poses heavily this is a nice addition. I mostly do toons/stylized stuff so some of these nice details wouldn't matter.
but more and more people want realism so it will help them. The more others want realism, the more I want to go stylized :)
Toons need their limbs to bend well too :)
Personally I'm agains the word 'realism' when it is applied to what majority of DAZ users and PAs do. Starting from the outfits they're selling in the store :)
Ah, I see. And I see a solution: Layered Image Editor. This will be relatively small amount of polys suffered from this problem and textures have enough white space to map them there and overlay needed parts from others. Makes things more complicated, thou :)
Layering won't help where the maps overlap, if they do. On option, that would I think have worked for the third generation maps, would have been to remap using a simple adjustment (scale or translation) to separate the required areas of the two, or more, maps needed for the surface and then use a black and white control map to transform the UVs to read off the correct area of the original maps. That would require a custom Shader Mixer shader, however, which would have been safe enough for third generation sets (few, if any, of which would have DS materials) but would not really be practical for G2F or Genesis which have native materials using a variety of shaders.
The mesh is totally different, lower poly but supposedly more efficient.
G3 also uses a different UV mapping technique which is supposed to give better results and be easier to work with.
A lot of the decisions I made with this mesh are about balancing and getting away from old ideas.
Anatomy being baked into the poly flow was good for when we had more limits. Moving forward, it was better to have a lower count, an even spread better for sculpting, and a flow more suited to animation. This also relates to why it cannot have backward compatible UVs. Those material borders date from V4, and I repeatedly kept them there despite the fact that they were often detrimental to the poly-flow. It was time to move on.
The move to this weight method was an easy choice. It would be very impractical to rig that many bones in the face with Triax, which has six or more weight-maps per bone. The memory use of such a thing would be ridiculous. Single-weight dual quaternion is also a very standard method of rigging you can find in most 3D packages.
Bear in mind that almost every expression you see, has been done using the facial rigging alone. People not liking expressions is something that has been floating around for a long time; people are very subjective about such things. Now, if you don't quite like an expression - you can simply tweak it however you want.
The rest of the skeleton choices were about filling in some of the remaining gaps for articulation, and a couple were to overcome a standard limitation this rigging style has with twisting motions.
She bends so well, because she has around 130 custom sculpted corrections shaping her. Somewhere along the line 'JCM' became a bad word. It's very common to use sculpted corrections in higher-end programs. When you bend an arm in a 3D program, using only weights, you are essentially folding it half. That's not how your arm works. Muscles shift, bones change alignment - ultimately the shape changes. You have to express that shape changing to get realism and accuracy, and the most control for doing so is sculpting.
Sorry, this was a bit long-winded.
In honesty if you look at toon styles you could see they are far simpler than when people are striving for more realistic directions.
Stick figures can work well for toons, and proper chibi styled characters don't even have articulated elbows or knees. So extra bones in the limbs aren't a big draw for my toons. Expressions sure, but when you do whacky unrealistic poses with characters wielding swords that weigh 5x their weight, some details are less important than others :)
Ah, I see. And I see a solution: Layered Image Editor. This will be relatively small amount of polys suffered from this problem and textures have enough white space to map them there and overlay needed parts from others. Makes things more complicated, thou :)
Layering won't help where the maps overlap, if they do. On option, that would I think have worked for the third generation maps, would have been to remap using a simple adjustment (scale or translation) to separate the required areas of the two, or more, maps needed for the surface and then use a black and white control map to transform the UVs to read off the correct area of the original maps. That would require a custom Shader Mixer shader, however, which would have been safe enough for third generation sets (few, if any, of which would have DS materials) but would not really be practical for G2F or Genesis which have native materials using a variety of shaders.
Zig working on A3 to G1 UV, problem cited:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/758252/
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/761682/
I found this post informational. It probably needs to be stickied separate from this thread because I'm sure this type of information will be asked for over and over.
"She bends so well"
Totally. I tested G3F with a G2F pose that just looks yiiiuuukkk! with G2F self, and this pose looks fantastic in G3F. Nek, I love this nek.
Edited, because probablyTotally express better that I wanted to say.
Actually this has to be on the 'technology' page instead of misleading advertisements :)
Edit: Forgot to thank you for info :)
Edit: And forgot to thank you for excellent work :) Hope G3M is just around the corner.
Ah, I see. And I see a solution: Layered Image Editor. This will be relatively small amount of polys suffered from this problem and textures have enough white space to map them there and overlay needed parts from others. Makes things more complicated, thou :)
Layering won't help where the maps overlap, if they do. On option, that would I think have worked for the third generation maps, would have been to remap using a simple adjustment (scale or translation) to separate the required areas of the two, or more, maps needed for the surface and then use a black and white control map to transform the UVs to read off the correct area of the original maps. That would require a custom Shader Mixer shader, however, which would have been safe enough for third generation sets (few, if any, of which would have DS materials) but would not really be practical for G2F or Genesis which have native materials using a variety of shaders.
Methink even naive approach to this may land with decent result. As we see (G2F is on the left), the problematic areas are top of head (covered with hair most of time), collars-armpits and thighs (this place should generally be covered too :) ) Using your approach it may be done perfectly, or not-so-perfect but simple by just remapping and hiding problematic areas. Face can be remapped perfectly and it's the most important part :)
Hitomi says thanks for dropping by! Good info.
Thanks for giving us those details :)
Hardly long winded. I very much enjoyed reading what you wrote because your the one we like hearing from on these aspects because your right there in the middle of the entire creative process for Genesis .... It really is too bad about the skins but I'm sure someone will work out some magic transfer script at some point! lol
Don't apologize, Mallen! Every time you come out to explain these things, it makes FAR more sense than anything site itself says! :)
Two questions on Genesis 3 -
1) Is Hexagon still viable for creating morphs on the new mesh?
2) Do we have the rigging tools for the new rig in Studio 4.8? If not, will they become available as an extra-cost plugin?
2a) Will using the current weight map brush screw things up pending the answer to 2 above?
this much I know works fine as I have done a few minor ones myself.
1.) You create morphs the way you always have. As you can see from the body morph set there is still enough mesh, in the right flow, to do very good shapes.
2.) Single map weighting has been a part of the DS weighting tools for a very long time actually, it just was not used for a main figure until now.
3.) If you mean an accessory item? then you just make sure the weight tool mode is General, and switch the binding to Dual Quaternion.
1.) You create morphs the way you always have. As you can see from the body morph set there is still enough mesh, in the right flow, to do very good shapes.
2.) Single map weighting has been a part of the DS weighting tools for a very long time actually, it just was not used for a main figure until now.
3.) If you mean an accessory item? then you just make sure the weight tool mode is General, and switch the binding to Dual Quaternion.
Thanks!
When I read a-sennov's first post with the figure's statistics, the thought entered my mind that maybe there was a policy of reducing memory use due to the adoption of the Iray engine and the desirability of using fast but RAM limited GPUs for rendering. Being on a very short break at work meant the thought quickly exited my mind (and I only had time for a cheap shot at the marketing).
Your comments resurrected the thought. Are the needs of Iray one of the factors behind the rationalisation of Genesis 3? Presumably, the direction of ever increasing poly based details seen in the previous generations was a desirable phenomenon at the time (the computer resources available to the user base were increasing steadily) and, presumably, those old ideas have been gotten away from for a reason (perhaps because one computer resource has suddenly diminished).
Whatever the reason, I think I like the outcome. I've only seen renders of the G3 female figure so far, and I have to say there is something about it that stands out. It's like it has suddenly become more difficult to produce a clunky, unrealistic pose.
And for Victoria 7 in particular, in more ways than one (all good) she does seem like the natural successor to Victoria 4.
You truly did an amazing job. I've been posing and animating her non-stop since I downloaded her.
Thank you for the hard work you put into this.
When I read a-sennov's first post with the figure's statistics, the thought entered my mind that maybe there was a policy of reducing memory use due to the adoption of the Iray engine and the desirability of using fast but RAM limited GPUs for rendering. Being on a very short break at work meant the thought quickly exited my mind (and I only had time for a cheap shot at the marketing).
Your comments resurrected the thought. Are the needs of Iray one of the factors behind the rationalisation of Genesis 3? Presumably, the direction of ever increasing poly based details seen in the previous generations was a desirable phenomenon at the time (the computer resources available to the user base were increasing steadily) and, presumably, those old ideas have been gotten away from for a reason (perhaps because one computer resource has suddenly diminished).
Whatever the reason, I think I like the outcome. I've only seen renders of the G3 female figure so far, and I have to say there is something about it that stands out. It's like it has suddenly become more difficult to produce a clunky, unrealistic pose.
And for Victoria 7 in particular, in more ways than one (all good) she does seem like the natural successor to Victoria 4.
An interesting idea, but I suspect DAZ have been working on Genesis 3 for quite a while, maybe before an iRay integration was even thought about. I assume work for Genesis 4 has already started, and if things carry on to this pattern it will be due in June 2017 :-)
The iRay implementation did not happen overnight either....Just because you didn't know about it, doesn't mean it didn't take several months or even years....
Textures eat GPU VRAM, not polys. That's why it's actually desirable to use textures with less resolution but higher subd ratio and procedural shaders for details when rendering on GPUs (being it IRay or Octane).
This 100%.
For example I have a Sub-D level 2 G3F, Sub-D level 1 mesh hair combined using 177 MB of Vram. Textures 1100mb. Rendering Resolution uses 12mb
Returning Sub-D to native levels, 3mb is used for geometry. Textures have stayed the same.
Interresting.
I always used (quite a few) JCM's to achieve the anatomical correct bends I wanted for my custom sculpted and rigged figures.
Never understood why JCM's got such a bad reputation over time.
I also preferred to work with the 3rd Generation DAZ mesh as I liked the extra bones in the legs that allowed automatic pose corrections.
The 3rd generation DAZ meshes are also quite detailed. Much better actually than the 4th, 5th, 6th and especially the 7th Generation now.
And here comes my problem:
I do my own custom sculpting. I don't want somebody else's "HD" morphs. (They wouldn't fit my realistic sculpts anyway)
So, if G3 has even less built in detail than the previous generations, how can I get that missing detail back in?
I really like my figures to have proper ribcages, ellbows, knees, spine, etc.
As far as I know the HD sculpting plugin is only available to DAZ vendors.
Displacement maps are out of the question, of course.
If I wanted to use "old tech", I could just as well stay with Poser and my 3rd Gen based figures.
So, it basically boils down to this:
To compensate for G3's lack of built in anatomical detail, will DAZ make the HD sculpting tool publically available?
Many thanks.
The extra bones in the shoulder, thigh and forearm only assist with Twist. They don't affect Bend at all.
the new elbows are pointy and dangerous like a thai fighter with no regrets. Brilliant really. even V4 and G1/G2 bend fixes never really got this sharpness of an elbow in a bend. The default V7/G3F handles really nicely.