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This is probably one of the most intelligent and reasonable posts I've read this morning. Thank you for having a level head and for asking a very well thought-out question. I hope to see the new standards last for several generations, too. And trust me, a big part of my store involves converted uvs for one generation to the next, and not being able to do that for Genesis 3 has taken away some of my product possibilities, but I am so pleased with Genesis 3 and Victoria 7 that I don't feel bad about it.
I can understand why some Gen4 and previous generations are not a priority to make compatible with the the new figures.
A lot of the older stuff wasn't built correctly and some of it just doesn't convert well no matter which conversion product you use.
Not to mention some lack bump maps, big enough textures, solid meshes.
But, a lot of our modeling practices have changed with the arrival of Genesis so it's just a little odd that at least the Genesis line isn't fully supported. Yes yes I know you can go from G1 to G2F then to G2F - guess we will have to wait for Sickle to do her thing :)
I started on Poser and still use it, so I'm sad to see no Poser support, but others have said that the Genesis 3 rigging is too different to be converted for Poser.
But I think someone didn't quite proofread the product page properly. They have removed Poser from it, but it now says that the Two industry leading software products it supports are Daz Studio :roll:
Somebody was in a hurry when creating the Victoria 7 product page (or just copied it from Victoria 6) because there's an error at the beginning of the paragraph underneath "Software Support." It mentions "The two industry leading software..." then the part about Smith-Micro and Poser was deleted which usually shows on the Gen6 figure pages.
I just thought I'd mention this typo.
http://www.daz3d.com/victoria-7
Edit: Cross post. Somebody beat me to it while I was typing this.
Yes, I sent an email about that earlier.
If what we see below is the shape of things to come with textures then colour me impressed! They have definitely improved. This is just the base G3F and the level of detail even on the base texture has increased a lot. Check the brows, they even look good at close range, a constant sticking point with G2.
Does this mean I'll abandon G2, no, there are still things I haven't done with that yet, but it depends on what M7 is like and what else comes out as to what I do in the future. The fact that V7 has a 'custom UV' means that we're probably not done with the new character new UV thing yet and that is a worry.
Still, we shall see....
CHEERS!
This is probably one of the most intelligent and reasonable posts I've read this morning. Thank you for having a level head and for asking a very well thought-out question. I hope to see the new standards last for several generations, too. And trust me, a big part of my store involves converted uvs for one generation to the next, and not being able to do that for Genesis 3 has taken away some of my product possibilities, but I am so pleased with Genesis 3 and Victoria 7 that I don't feel bad about it.
This is a genuine question - What makes you think that G4 won't just do exactly what G3 has done and lack compatibility? Has there been a suggestion from Daz that G3 is the new standard going forward and future Genesis iterations will be compatible with it?
I like the look of V7 and if its been suggested that theres a break now and G3, G4, G5 etc are all going to be totally compatible with each other in the future, then this might be worth looking into... but somehow I seriously doubt that. The Daz business model seems to hinge upon encouraging customers to replace their content every now and then with the next upgrade and I can't see that changing in the future.
Rogerbee, you mentioned 'who is dictating you spend that much'
Except all the 'extras' are rather integral elements to giving characters... well, character.
$400 or more for a modest increase in certain details is a lot to swallow, even assuming anyone ever recreates stuff you like. As it is, I end up using Genesis 1 for stuff like four arms, which simply don't exist for later generations.
But the uv map thing is a bridge too far. Right now I can use 5 and 6 maps on almost any figure I have.
Yes. I've stopped buying anything with textures less than 3000px in the main areas and 99%+ of any V4 content, and some of the content is very poorly made. I hope with V7 that at least on Daz's store they enforce standards like minimum texture resolutions, a few morph adjustments, etc. if they aren't already. Some of the products I've bought on other sites are of poor quality, and generally the older stuff here is better, but the old stuff is, well... old.
Well, hopefully M7 wont take a year to come out this time ._.
I scratch my head, really. If you don't need V7 don't purchase her. She is not being forced on you or the market. In the end the market will definately decide and I bet on V7 or V8 and even V20.
V7 doesn't mean your previous figures are made useless all of a sudden. You will see less PA support, but even V4 is getting a ton of new stuff.
Open your mind to the world at large.
DAZ 3D is a business catering to a large market. Most of that market doesn't hang out on the forums like we do.
Perhaps scratching a little harder may help in gaining a better understanding of what myself and many others here have expressed. I no longer ever "hang out" and on the forums like "we" do. Like many others, for me it is a informational tool.
I only hope that the word at large and the larger market is paying attention today and feeling some of the same consternation at the prospect of re-investing yet again. I believe strongly that it would help all of us (even those who currently think an "update" is necessary every few years) to reflect on this in the days ahead and take a strong look at it in terms of return on investment (both time and money).
I would not be at all surprised, this time, if we do not not see much, if any, new G2 content showing up on the DAZ site going forward (unlike the last time when there was G1 content showing up long after G2 arrived). This will help create a natural tendency toward a belief that "if I do not conform and upgrade, I will be left behind using old technology". But when people are busy re-investing (not to mention re-working current projects) because currently-owned poses, morphs, UVs, etc., etc. etc, no longer work with the new technology, we'll all be scratching our heads.
I suppose Daz will still support Gen 2 as it still dose with V4, there is a plus side as most if not all Gen 2 morphs and hair/clothes will become cheaper.
I am not new to Daz there for I will not upgrade so quickly as I have morphs and textures for Gen 2 which I only got a few months ago, and Gen 3 seems to need a whole new wardrobe and hair, I will wait a few months months first to see what comes out for her.
I was going to buy morphs and textures for Gen 2 male but I think I will wait now for Gen 3 male.
If you are new to Daz yes I would go for Gen 3, if not upgrade slowly and buy as you need.
Daz has made a big mistake, they should of made a bundle with morphs included, it was the morphs and textures that got me into Gen 2 and while I am still using Daz.
I will probably will get Gen 3 in time but wait till more textures and aging morph come out for her.
We all hate to upgrade but I bet most of you have upgraded your PC in the last 5 years.
Well V4 is granny, Gen 2 is mature, and Gen 3 is the young woman...lol
This is a genuine question - What makes you think that G4 won't just do exactly what G3 has done and lack compatibility? Has there been a suggestion from Daz that G3 is the new standard going forward and future Genesis iterations will be compatible with it?
There's still AutoFit support, so they haven't completely broken compatibility. The changes to rigging and UVs seem necessary for the overall goal, not wilful or exploitative attempts to trick people out of their money. So from that I would expect any G4s to offer what conversion options they could.
Not quite, I said who is dictating you spend that much right now. You can probably spread the cost and be able to take advantage of things like voucher codes and sales later on down the line. That $400 could be a lot less and not hurt the purse so much if done over time. You buy what you want when you can afford it.
CHEERS!
Yes, I sent an email about that earlier.
The morph bundles also still lack PC discount, was this also already reported?
I picked up V7 this morning. Now I have to get through the work day before I can play with my new dollie!
:down:
Glad I didn't spend a ton during the Steam sale. Makes me feel less guilty about the pro bundle.
I'll pick up the morph packages if I like how a test render does for me.
The morph bundles also still lack PC discount, was this also already reported?
The morph bundles have PC discount, they don't have a general intro discount. We have reported this.
Looks like this is fixed. Wish there was a morph bundle.
Thank you Richard. Looks like it's fixed for me now :)
Does that mean that anyone that paid full price is due some money back then!?
CHEERS!
If you are going to break compatibility with previous versions in software development there's generally a new standard being set for future versions. No direct suggestion, but it is logical following typical software development practices.
I wouldn't expect G3F to be able to wear G4F clothes, but I would expect G4F to be able to wear G3F clothes with minimal hassle or even perfectly.
I can understand why some Gen4 and previous generations are not a priority to make compatible with the the new figures.
A lot of the older stuff wasn't built correctly and some of it just doesn't convert well no matter which conversion product you use.
Not to mention some lack bump maps, big enough textures, solid meshes.
But, a lot of our modeling practices have changed with the arrival of Genesis so it's just a little odd that at least the Genesis line isn't fully supported. Yes yes I know you can go from G1 to G2F then to G2F - guess we will have to wait for Sickle to do her thing :)
If the improvement in realism was significant then I wouldn't mind the cut off point in compatibility but no one has posted any images (including on the product pages) that show this. Apologies for hurting anyone's feelings but we still have the dead eyes, doll like expressions and plastic looking skin. The way to achieve realistic renders has a lot to do with context - the lighting, clothing and environment. A still G2 figure can achieve great realism when set up correctly - it doesn't need a few extra joints to make scenes believable.
I'm not upset that the new G3 has been released - I'm disappointed that at first impressions it is only marginally better than G2. Unless there are products yet to be released that significantly give G3 the edge over G2 then, as far as I'm concerned, unlike the jump from V/M4 to Genesis, it's an uninspiring update rather than an essential upgrade.
Come on all you IRAY experts convince me how much better G3 is and don't cheat by hobbling G2. We need a G2 vs G3 render competition thread to push the boundaries and show off G3. So what if G3's ears and toes move more realistically, so far the G3 renders don't show any of that off and seem pretty bog standard Genesis 1/2 fare.
My grade for this DAZ assessment is a 'C' - tries hard but doesn't distinguish. There is still time to get that grade up before my final assessment.
You know, if I hadn't just pre-ordered Fallout 4... Honestly I have mixed feelings. The improvements sound great -- I spend a lot of time moving sliders around to get expressions just right with G2, and just the ability to move the jaw alone is a great improvement, but all the other movable parts are awesome! On the other hand, my budget just isn't up for a whole new generation of figures right now. :/
I've asked that now.
It's very early days yet, I'm sure the PA's will have tricks up their sleeves to make her shine. G2 got updated with every new build of DS so I'm sure that G3 will be the same. We haven't seen HD add-on's for these though I suspect that there won't be as many as the G3 Morphs already have some HD incorporated already.
I'm sure the grade curve will start to go up....
CHEERS!
I've asked that now.
Hey Richard,
it seems like now there is no reduction anymore on V7 Pro bundle. Or is this intentional?
It's an "improvement" (or not) in regards to compatibility with software like Autodesk and Maya. You are now able to import and use the figures "as is" in these applications, rather than having to re-rig and wightmap them again.
As far as I've understood the entire advertisement, this is what the focus is; they are making their figure more compatible with "industry standards".
So, it's "under the hood" rather than the shiney news chassis you seem to wait for....
What's up with the starter and pro bundle discounts?
I did buy the bundle, but I admit the promo art I see, isn't really as good as I'm used to seeing for a new figure release. Not all of it of course, but I don't think the images really do some of the content justice.
Images look tinted color-wise, over-exposed, and Iray lighting looks harsh to me.
WHY?!?!?! V6 has only been out for TWO FRIGGIN' YEARS!! You think the PAs are happy about this, either? Esp. over at Rendo-- many are jusr starting to get into G2F, and now this! DAZ, your customers cannot afford to re-purchase everything every 2 years! Gen2 Male isn't even complete-- he doesn't have a real anime character (no Hiro 6!)
This is seriously disappointing and feels like a moneygrab-- I don't care how good the facial expressions are on these models. You could at least wait two more years before forcing a new generation on us, geez! Something tells me that Daz is going to get some PA backlash, if not customer backlash over this.
I am very unhappy about this-- I only recently made my Gen2M character library mostly complete, and still only have my Gen2F library half way there (I actually purchase more stuff for G2M than G2F, BTW, and only plan to get less than half the DAZ characters for her) Now I'm going to see support for these two dropped because a new generation is being forced on us. G2F is seeing a lot of support on Rendo as they seem to be gradually abandoning V4-- this, however, I think may change things--
I started on Poser and still use it, so I’m sad to see no Poser support, but others have said that the Genesis 3 rigging is too different to be converted for Poser.
That's another thing that bolsters my assertion that this is just a moneygrab with no consideration for customers or PAs. I have not, and never will use Poser, but this really bothers me. So... they're going for the "industry standard" to make it Max/Maya compatible... but removing Poser compatibility, which is far more important? Seriously? I don't understand this.
Really, it's the Poser users who get screwed over worst by this. Dawn and Dusk just aren't that great and are lacking in support (and some of their official morphs, though made by a PA, are very unrealistic), while G2 will not work natively in Poser, and this new generation is not Poser-supported at all. Perhaps RDNA were the only ones who got it right by sticking to V4 all this time...
Hmmm... Now the pro and starter bundles show no discount at all. Riiiight. Let me know when you get that fixed. Can't buy any of the other stuff until I have the base figure.