Squishy Humans

2

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  • ChronopunkChronopunk Posts: 288

    Onto the Wishlist it goes until payday!

    Out of curiosity, do we know how this might interact with animations? Walking (catwalk, etc), running, jumping, and so forth? Other than increased simulation and render times, obviously.

  • FeralFeyFeralFey Posts: 3,858

    Hi Chronopunk! I think you'll enjoy these, as they're perfectly fine for animations. The dForce parts work pretty much as you would expect them with all the appropriate jiggling in the right place - without the deflation we've seen in previous products. You may have to do a bit of experimentation because, like any dForce product, you have to be mindful of where the figure's limbs are when moving and to avoid any intersectioning - unless it's an intended collision, of course. I've been enjoying playing with the Squishies and animating them. 

  • ChronopunkChronopunk Posts: 288

    Ah, excellent news.

    Out of curiosity, for the internal structure you've put together, where do you place the gravity point for the breasts on the female model? Many of the solutions I've seen appear to place it at the apex/pastie point (can I use the clinical term nipple on the forum? I've never tried), when speaking realistically, it should originate from the torso/ribcage to enable better reflection of gravity/weight/heft, etc. For instance, the HS Dforce Breast doesn't do this, and as such, has some very odd reactions when trying to simulate gravity (and that's not counting the weird open seams when you use the "Laying Down" option for the graft). If the weight/heft/etc starts near the ribcage as a solid body instead of a spring at the nipple this problem probably won't exist (if it does at all, I don't know how you built it).

    In any case, I look forward to seeing how it works once the pay comes in!

  • MendomanMendoman Posts: 371

    Hi, this looks promising, but I've tried several earlier DS dForce products for "soft body" before this, and unfortunately all those products have the same problem: They don't preserve volume. Female chest area behaves more like a wet cement in a plastic bag than actual human flesh. I would be using this for an adult game animations, so is this product capable for that?

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 18,915

    Mendoman said:

    Hi, this looks promising, but I've tried several earlier DS dForce products for "soft body" before this, and unfortunately all those products have the same problem: They don't preserve volume. Female chest area behaves more like a wet cement in a plastic bag than actual human flesh. I would be using this for an adult game animations, so is this product capable for that?

    A user posted some results images of using this on breasts in this post.
    I'm a woman. I have breasts. They don't look like that. So it could be user error or it could be that the product doesn't work well for that application. Maybe someone else has examples of better results.

  • MendomanMendoman Posts: 371

    barbult said:

    Mendoman said:

    Hi, this looks promising, but I've tried several earlier DS dForce products for "soft body" before this, and unfortunately all those products have the same problem: They don't preserve volume. Female chest area behaves more like a wet cement in a plastic bag than actual human flesh. I would be using this for an adult game animations, so is this product capable for that?

    A user posted some results images of using this on breasts in this post.
    I'm a woman. I have breasts. They don't look like that. So it could be user error or it could be that the product doesn't work well for that application. Maybe someone else has examples of better results.

    Thank you, and unfortunately it looks like there's still the same problem. I suppose dForce is a cloth simulation tool and not really meant for this kind of use, and it needs a proper addon/plugin or something from Daz. 

  • DisparateDreamerDisparateDreamer Posts: 2,439

    I only got natural gravity effects on the breasts, and natural squish if something collides with them. Not going to get into physics about how some boobs are softer or firmer and react differently tho *giggle*

  • Lyrra MadrilLyrra Madril Posts: 214

    I actually have the g8male gens set up with squish but as Fey explained above it did weird things sometimes on some peoples systems. Mine was fine, the tester and Fey got jitterbugging.  Any rate I intend to set up a couple other addon gens for Squishy Human and put up the lot as a freebie.  So keep an eye out for that shortly :)  There will be no pictures, but uh... most of the simulation effects are on the spheroids, and yes if he crosses his legs wrong bad things happened.  I made myself laugh for like ten minutes on the first cross legs test.

    Gravity gets on with its own self, there are no settings of points for anything.  I added no new tools to DS with this, I just used what we already had in an admittedly weird way.  The programmers were confused, that's always a sign I'm doing something fun.  Basically I used a counterbalanced system of soft and hard internal armatures and various dforce trickey to simulate internal pressure and skin elasticity.  This preserves volume in most cases, keeps structure and provides soft body collision effects.  I spent rather a lot of time testing, tweaking and balancing this to get it to an 'average' human squiness range. You may want to try gently adjusting the figures dforce settings and the Meat armature dforce settings, but be cautious. small changes in settings lead to very large changes in behavior.

    Is this a perfect solution? no

    Can you use this for adult games to get the mooshy bags of jello physics? probably not. Admittedly I was aiming more middle of the road.  Jello physics would look very strange on the rest of the body. For example thighs don't generally squish like that.  I would suggest looking at a mix of this for the rest of the body and a specific breast geograft addon not sold here. That would let you focus the jello aspect to the chest.   I don't know about exporting dforce simulations in animations. I'm not entirely sure you'd be able to port it into your game engine regardless.

    The test image someone posted the other day with the chest looks like they 'pressed' too hard into the breast area and dragged sideways. Unfortunately he managed to find the weak spot in cloth engine simulation - not much spring back from internal pressure.  Less dragging, and more straight on impact tends to lead to a better effect.

    Mendoman

    Yes a proper softbody collision setup would be grand, or even just adding internal pressure to the cloth engine.  But, as I said, I worked with what we had already.  So this is more than we had before at least, and it does show us some issues that should be addressed on the figure level before softbody physics could be applied. Specifically the difficulty of having different levels of squish on different body areas, and the effects of uneven polygon distribution.

    Lyrra

  • MendomanMendoman Posts: 371

    @Lyrra Madril Heh, no problem. Unfortunately it's those jello physics I'm looking for wink Oh, and I'm not exporting anything to game engine, I just render image series in DS and then convert those to video clips. It's just so slow to manually play with push weight modifier weights for every frame, so I've been waiting for a time saver solution that could do just that automatically. Also, I probably have to check that other store for chest area geograft, and hopefully it has more polygons. G8 is a beautiful figure, but it's base resolution is so low that it's sometimes really hard to achieve soft body effects even with those push weight modifier maps.

  • Lyrra MadrilLyrra Madril Posts: 214

    Well for a series of images you ought to be fine.  I did find it was usually better to start 'fresh' on each animation, dforce sometimes doesnt clear out all the way and the armatures sometimes got tangled up in there.  So if you are doing an image sequence you might want to do the set plain and then go back to each one and simulate it once all the scenes are built. 

    The existing chest are geograft I tested with is very huigh res, and does have pretty nice smoothing based collission built in. Alas, it sufferrs very much from unevon polygon distribution and will take a fine touch getting things working properly. I found best results by both modifying the simulation weight maps on the figure and graft as well as adjusting the pasties armature simulation much stiffer to combat the buckling from very very small polygons.  I didnt get to a perfect solution sicne I was just checking proof of concept and I dont particularly need size J for most renders ;)

     

  • Lyrra MadrilLyrra Madril Posts: 214
    edited May 1

    protip - To simulate clothing pressure start with the clothing properly fitted and a few frames in use a negative value on Expand all or some other shrinking type morph dial to tighten the clothing. Zev0's Fit Control morphs work nicely.

    Images are from an earlier test - I've messily clone stamped out a bit of chest poke that would upset the mods ;)

    version 4 muffin top test1 small.png
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    version 4 muffin top test1 nosim small.png
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    Post edited by Lyrra Madril on
  • 3DRT3DRT Posts: 44

    FeralFey said:

    @3DRT - When this happened, was it the first pose you applied to the figure? Or was this after you tried a different pose? To my eye, it looks like you have simulated it previously and all the armature's posing/simulating haven't been cleared from the timeline from the last pose. But if this was the first pose you used, let me know and we'll try to sort out what's going on for you.

    Loading in a fresh set of figures appears to have fixed the issue. Is there a way to clear the simulation data from the armatures without having to reload the figures each time?

  • Lyrra MadrilLyrra Madril Posts: 214

    In theory the regular clear simulation should do it, but in experiance I've found DS sometimes messes that up. You can also try zeroing each armature part, but I think it gets stuck in the cache and DS can be quite stubborn.

  • FeralFeyFeralFey Posts: 3,858

    Unfortunately there's no "one button click" solution for clearing the armature. When you clear the G8/8.1 F/M figure from the timeline, it doesn't remove the armature key frames. You have to go back and select each of the armature body bones and use clear pose in the timeline dropdown menu. And even then (because DS is persnickity on a good day) you may still have key frames that will need to be manually removed. It just depends on which is going to irritate you more - removing the keyframes by hand, or deleting the Squishy figures after each simulation.

     

  • M-CM-C Posts: 79

    I´ve experimented a bit with a very top-heavy figure and I must say I´m quite impressed by the result.
    Of course there are limits and one has to put in some work to get decent results but with these squishy figures we´re able to achieve things that have been impossible before.

    The attached picture shows an example of the first real breast collision I´ve ever seen inside of Daz Studio.
     

    squishy.jpg
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  • Lyrra MadrilLyrra Madril Posts: 214

    oh hey that looks excellent :)  nice job!

  • FeralFeyFeralFey Posts: 3,858

    Nice work, M-C!! That's a very convincing cleavage. Thanks for sharing your image.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 18,915

    M-C said:

    I´ve experimented a bit with a very top-heavy figure and I must say I´m quite impressed by the result.
    Of course there are limits and one has to put in some work to get decent results but with these squishy figures we´re able to achieve things that have been impossible before.

    The attached picture shows an example of the first real breast collision I´ve ever seen inside of Daz Studio.
     

    Best looking example so far!

  • DisparateDreamerDisparateDreamer Posts: 2,439

    This is one I did 

     

  • As dumb as this sounds, I think that maybe, a good old youtube video demo would help a lot :D

  • FeralFeyFeralFey Posts: 3,858

    second_technician_rimmer_9571136c47 said:

    As dumb as this sounds, I think that maybe, a good old youtube video demo would help a lot :D

    I don't think Lyrra or I thought to do that, so I do apologize!! I did include a PDF tutorial in the product that lays out the steps on how to use the animated timeline poses, but you can easily use a non-animated timeline pose following the same steps. If it would be helpful, I'm willing to help walk you through the process. (I'm afraid that I don't have the capabilities to put together a You-tube tutorial. And I doubt anyone would like to hear me "...ummm..." and "...errr..." my way through an explanation. I'm much better explaining on paper. :)

  • Lyrra MadrilLyrra Madril Posts: 214

    Sorry but youtube videos and video editing are out of my area.  If some brave volunteer wants to go for it, feel free!

    On the user end really the hard part is setting up the animaiton for the simulaiton so you dont cross the streams. Er mesh.

    Yes, crossing the mesh would Be Bad. 

     

     

  • trdtrd Posts: 7

     

    Every time I use a pose with thigh movement lifting above a certain angle it causes the glutes geometry to explode. Started with zero pose, zero morphs, and even altered the jcm(s). Nothing works. Nice product for creating micro-pressures for tight fitting clothing but not really great for 'soft body dynamics'. Hope you will keep working at it and update.

  • FeralFeyFeralFey Posts: 3,858

    Pardon me for saying, but it looks like something funky is going on there. Are you simulated using the "Custom Animated Timeline" setting? And are you clearing out the armature after every time you simulate? Because what it looks like to me is that you're resimulating over a previously simulated armature. I could be wrong, of course, as dForce acts differently across different machines. But I'd hedge my bets in that something isn't getting zeroed out correctly when you run the simulation.

  • Tammuz43Tammuz43 Posts: 13

    Same problem for me.

    I loaded the character in a new empty scene, ran the simulation for the first time, and I get this :

    squ1.jpg
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  • Lyrra MadrilLyrra Madril Posts: 214

    Well its not supposed to do that.

    I know, not helpful.  I only ran into this issue when trying to run a simulation several times without clearing so I'm not entirely certain how to address it.

    You can try clearing out keyframes like Fey mentioned somewhere above in this thread.

    um.  You could try swapping in a fresh butt armature - load a second SH , remove the first ones butt armature and select the second ones butt armature and Fit it to the first one to replace it and see if that helps any.   

    You can also try turning off the visibility on the butt armature entirely and see what happens.  In theory the butt will just deflate sadly (thats why the additional butt reinforcement in the first place)  Butt its possible that its just tangling up in this particular pose.

    I started dev on  this about 2? 3? version back in DS and I haven't upgraded to the latest yet. I know dForce behavior changed subtly a couple times, so there is every chance that whatever version you are running and your system might be every so slightly changing some behaviors in unexpected ways.  Mix that with some of the extremely weird things I did to dForce settings to get this to work...  well you see what can happen.

    So yeah, try those two things and see what happens?  If that is a solution I may update the product to add the armature pieces as wearables so its easier to swap in a fresh one.

    You could also try adjusting the dforce settings on the buttpatch, something more or less firm might work better for you.  I wouldn't recommend altering the settings on the figure directly.  That will probably break more than it fixes. 

    I didn't include settings for dforce since there are loads of dforce presets out there already and frankly after six months I was dead sick of this product.

     

  • trdtrd Posts: 7

    Hi ladies, I went and did your homework for you ;) I realized that the problem only arose when using female 8.1 and not with the other squishy humans. So I did a fresh install of the Gen8 characters, looked at what was different, and found that mesh smoothing was enabled on all squishy human male/female EXCEPT for female 8.1. I'm still testing but for now there is a considerable difference in the glute area of the female 8.1.

     

    Hope that helps.

  • Tammuz43Tammuz43 Posts: 13

    trd said:

    Hi ladies, I went and did your homework for you ;) I realized that the problem only arose when using female 8.1 and not with the other squishy humans. So I did a fresh install of the Gen8 characters, looked at what was different, and found that mesh smoothing was enabled on all squishy human male/female EXCEPT for female 8.1. I'm still testing but for now there is a considerable difference in the glute area of the female 8.1.

     

    Hope that helps.

    I tried your solution. I added a smoothing modifier to G8.1 and set all the parameters exactly as on G8.

    It's a little better but still far from perfect.

    It seems there is a specific problem on G8.1 character, especially in the hip area, but also legs and shoulder. And the breasts hang like a plastic bag.

    g8.jpg
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    g8-2.jpg
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  • Tammuz43Tammuz43 Posts: 13

    And there is a similar problem on male characters.

     

    m8.jpg
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  • FeralFeyFeralFey Posts: 3,858

    trd said:

    Hi ladies, I went and did your homework for you ;) I realized that the problem only arose when using female 8.1 and not with the other squishy humans. So I did a fresh install of the Gen8 characters, looked at what was different, and found that mesh smoothing was enabled on all squishy human male/female EXCEPT for female 8.1. I'm still testing but for now there is a considerable difference in the glute area of the female 8.1.

     

    Hope that helps.

    Thanks for doing the leg work!! It's appreciated. I'll tap Lyrra and let her know, since she's the one in charge of harranguing QA on the figures. 

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